Archived A Rant About The Creative World, And How Useless It Is

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Lord_Aza

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Some time ago, I had this idea to get back into Massive by building an Isldar hold in creative, and maybe trying to host some light roleplay there. I begun by unclaiming two of my four plots, as I wanted to get a few that were connected to each other. I was hugely disappointed when I noticed I couldn't in fact claim anything, as apparently the plot limit had been reduced since I last played. Nobody had informed me, and there was no refund. Having already used one of my plots for a build, I couldn't really do anything. The one empty plot I still did have was ridiculously small, and I wouldn't even consider building on such a limited space. I know a large part of Massive's community doesn't care about creative, but us who do? This amount of limitation makes it unenjoyable. There's a lot of potential in here, and to me it seems like its being thrown straight into the trash. If you're still looking for new members for the world department, perhaps improving creative would encourage people to build more?

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Let's hope I get to build that Isldar hold some time soon..

@Staff
 
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If we allowed people to claim more plots, it would probably lower the amount of space in creative world and possibly even increase lag (more redstone, water, lava, etc.). However, there might be a simple solution for this problem. I have seen a lot of unused plots in creative, many don't even contain any buildings or player-placed blocks at all and are owned by players who haven't been online for months-my plot itself borders 5 such plots. So, I think staff could recruit a few players to search for abandoned and/or laggy plots (there are lots of plots filled with flowing lava) and then give the information to real staff in exchange for staff points. Afterwards, staff would consider removing those plots. That way, there would be no problem with space if people were allowed to claim more plots and there would also be slightly less lag at the same time.
 
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You haven't given any solutions in my opinion. You're just stating obvious facts everyone already knows and derailing the conversation.

this whole thread was directed towards the server's staff.
 
My posts may not have given you the answer you wanted but i gave several solutions
Actually, you just pointed out why you think things should stay as they are, but didn't suggest anything new that could literally solve the problem. If somebody already made up an opinion of their own by seeing things with their own eyes, it's quite hard to convince them that everything is alright.
 
At first, and still currently, I see this thread mainly as a complaint by a non-premium member who doesnt have enough space to build. I honestly don't care if the creative world changes, I use it somewhat regularly but its not a big deal to me. but changing on the basis of "I dont want to pay so the rules should change" makes no sense to me

So I was simply giving the solutions to getting more space in the creative world.

Practically everything ive said has been reiterated by another person posting, yet im the only person who's getting called "irrelevant" or "derailing"
 
And as @pokyug said

Massive already has a hard enough time making the premium benefits look appealing. so removing them while they are still eula compliant is crazy
 
And as @pokyug said

Massive already has a hard enough time making the premium benefits look appealing. so removing them while they are still eula compliant is crazy
They don't need to be removed. The number of plots of both premium and non-premium members could be increased so the proportion stays somewhat the same. If we managed to prevent the creative world getting too crowded with plots, the amount of plots that can be claimed by a non premium could be raised to, for example, 4 and the amount of those that can be claimed by premiums could be increased to 12.
 
But by making the non premium option sarisfactory, you remove all desire to donate for that perk.
 
But by making the non premium option sarisfactory, you remove all desire to donate for that perk.
That's true, but it's hard to say when an option is satisfactory. A builder wouldn't consider 4 plots enough, while some people might be happy with just one plot. And you also said that Massivecraft is not meant to be a creative server, so why would people, in that case, pay for creative anyways?
 
That's true, but it's hard to say when an option is satisfactory. A builder wouldn't consider 4 plots enough, while some people might be happy with just one plot. And you also said that Massivecraft is not meant to be a creative server, so why would people, in that case, pay for creative anyways?
It's kind of splitting those two things up.

I say massive is not a creative server, meaning that if somebody were to go and search for a server to just build in Creative, they will most likely not come to massive for that.

The people who are donating, whether or not for the 9 plots specifically, I don't think that they are donating specifically for that one perk... but more so for the overall package of perks. So when you remove one of the group.. it makes the larger group less appealing.

Just to clarify here, I think massive creative server is fine. I have no problem personally with that gamemode.. so when you said
"And you also said that Massivecraft is not meant to be a creative server"
that's not really what I was saying. Massive's creative is not up to the par that other, primarily Creative servers are. It's a great feature and I love it, but it's a supplement to the other game modes more so than its own.
 
It's kind of splitting those two things up.

I say massive is not a creative server, meaning that if somebody were to go and search for a server to just build in Creative, they will most likely not come to massive for that.

The people who are donating, whether or not for the 9 plots specifically, I don't think that they are donating specifically for that one perk... but more so for the overall package of perks. So when you remove one of the group.. it makes the larger group less appealing.

Just to clarify here, I think massive creative server is fine. I have no problem personally with that gamemode.. so when you said
"And you also said that Massivecraft is not meant to be a creative server"
that's not really what I was saying. Massive's creative is not up to the par that other, primarily Creative servers are. It's a great feature and I love it, but it's a supplement to the other game modes more so than its own.
I agree with these points, but I still don't think making people unsatisfied with the non-premium number of plots will make them buy premium. As you said, there are other creative servers, so while limiting the number of plots possible will improve economy on one side, it will just make things worse on the other.
 
I agree with these points, but I still don't think making people unsatisfied with the non-premium number of plots will make them buy premium. As you said, there are other creative servers, so while limiting the number of plots possible will improve economy on one side, it will just make things worse on the other.
But remember, a lot of people who use the creative game mode on massive aren't here just for creative. meaning that for them, creative takes a backseat to survival, pvp, roleplay, etc.

Perhaps satisfactory was a bad term. It's like when you're buying a car. you have the base model that comes with X number of features and you have to pay to upgrade to better options
 
A lot of points have been made in this thread, so ima skim and give some of my thoughts and a few solutions:

Not A Creative Server: Yea, but it has a creative world. Its not a minigame server either, but that is what the Event world is basically- planned, staff run minigames for a short time, and it is maintained. "Nobody came for the creative world" well, nobody came for the 'minigames' aka Events, either. Putting a little bit of work into expanding the creative world wont do any harm, and in fact will most likely do good, as players will have more space to vent their creativity and work on competitions.

Over Claiming: . . . Its a world generated with a plot plugin. It takes hardly any time to gen another 20k on each side of the world- even if that would be WAY too big the point stands. Thats not an issue at all.

Just Complaining By Non-Premiums: Well, yea. It is in a way but also, 9 claims to 1 seems like a pretty high difference. I would be happy with just 4 so I can get a nice 2x2 chunk claim running. But either way, the numbers are all configurable. If Default Players get 4 claims, they could easily up the Premium Claims too, to say 12. Then you all get a 4x3 claim, and we can get our little bit of extra space.

Lag: lolwut? Massive runs around 8+ multiverse worlds just for Factions Survival, with more on the way, I doubt adding more claims or more space will have any noticeable impact on TPS. At ALL.
 
Lag: lolwut? Massive runs around 8+ multiverse worlds just for Factions Survival, with more on the way, I doubt adding more claims or more space will have any noticeable impact on TPS. At ALL.
Yes, but the problem is FPS. Creative is kind of laggy because there's a lot of redstone and flowing water/lava there, and the creative world can crash easily if you add some additional world edit usage on top of that. However, it's not an extremely large problem, as such things don't happen often.
 
Yes, but the problem is FPS. Creative is kind of laggy because there's a lot of redstone and flowing water/lava there, and the creative world can crash easily if you add some additional world edit usage on top of that. However, it's not an extremely large problem, as such things don't happen often.
Dont forget random people running crazy worldedit commands.
 
Yes, but the problem is FPS. Creative is kind of laggy because there's a lot of redstone and flowing water/lava there, and the creative world can crash easily if you add some additional world edit usage on top of that. However, it's not an extremely large problem, as such things don't happen often.
Regalia runs at around 10 fps for me at render distance 2. The Create world runs at around 40 fps for me at render distance 7. And I am on a Dell Laptop running Windows XP. I doubt any changes will be noticeable unless your neighbor is a dick and decides to spam redstone clocks opening hundreds to doors XD - and even then, that can happen NOW with the claim system we have, so no effect.
 
Wait what is the argument on this thread... It just sounds like a bunch 0f incoherent whining at this point with no legitimate solution in mind.

That being said, plots are fine the way they are right now. I know I'm premium but I've only been using 4 plots this entire time and my builds fill up less than half of my mega plot. If one plot is not enough space.... Then you are building alot and considering premium shouldn't be much of a hassle lol. It's only 8 bucks....
That was more of a side tangent, my point was if I can run the creative world on my Windows XP Craptop the lag concern was void.
 
Not A Creative Server: Yea, but it has a creative world. Its not a minigame server either, but that is what the Event world is basically- planned, staff run minigames for a short time, and it is maintained. "Nobody came for the creative world" well, nobody came for the 'minigames' aka Events, either. Putting a little bit of work into expanding the creative world wont do any harm, and in fact will most likely do good, as players will have more space to vent their creativity and work on competitions.
Uh. Your first statement is like comparing apples and oranges. The two have nothing in common. The events are events, not a full time server.
If the creative server had more of a playerbase, then sure. But the lack of appeal generates no interest in upgrading.

Over Claiming: . . . Its a world generated with a plot plugin. It takes hardly any time to gen another 20k on each side of the world- even if that would be WAY too big the point stands. Thats not an issue at all.
Doing so wouldn't be too hard, no. But the logistical cost and lag that would be generated due to this would hinder the server itself. The server would require more upkeep it and should only be done if the server had more traffic, but it doesn't.

Just Complaining By Non-Premiums: Well, yea. It is in a way but also, 9 claims to 1 seems like a pretty high difference. I would be happy with just 4 so I can get a nice 2x2 chunk claim running. But either way, the numbers are all configurable. If Default Players get 4 claims, they could easily up the Premium Claims too, to say 12. Then you all get a 4x3 claim, and we can get our little bit of extra space.
Increasing the amount of plots as a solution would just lead to over claiming.

Lag: lolwut? Massive runs around 8+ multiverse worlds just for Factions Survival, with more on the way, I doubt adding more claims or more space will have any noticeable impact on TPS. At ALL.
And? Adding more claims would lead to overclaiming and adding more space would create more lag.

That was more of a side tangent, my point was if I can run the creative world on my Windows XP Craptop the lag concern was void.
Your PC specs aren't really relative. The problem is server side.
Your PC may not have problems with FPS, but the server may have problems with TPS.
 
Just going to put my two cents in here.

First off, the idea of not making the creative world more desirable just because Massivecraft isn't a creative server doesn't hold much weight. Massivecraft isn't a one trick pony. The community here is very diverse, and if we have the opportunity to help a part of it grow then we should.

I recently returned to Massivecraft after many many months of inactivity. As I'm settling into the swing of things, figuring out the lore changes and whatnot, I go to my creative plots to find all of my buildings are still there. While I was personally relieved, this underlines a major issue with the creative system. My buildings should not have been there.

As @vidivo suggested, the simplest solution to this is to restore plots that have gone inactive. The specifics of how long it takes for a plot to restore are irrelevant as the staff will decide this based on data they collect.

I feel like implementing this policy alone will eradicate many of the other concerns that have been brought up: over claiming, lag, etc.

What I would suggest to the staff is to implement the restore policy for a trial period. Don't change how many plots players can claim yet, simply make it where players who are inactive get their plots restored. I would suggest making players who have been inactive for more than 3 months get their plots restored, but again, the time should be set based on data collected from the server. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT: make this system retroactive. So if a player has already been gone for over 3 months at the time this is implemented, their plot is immediately restored. I believe this will dramatically decrease the number of plots that are claimed immediately. The immediate success of this is going to be dependent on the last time the creative world was restored, which is something @MonMarty would have to tell us. Once this trial period has gone on for a sufficient amount of time to see the restore policy's effectiveness, then the staff should increase the claim number based on how effective the restore policy was.

Another point I would like to make about the creative world. If the staff are interested in advertising the creative world more (which they should), they should emphasise WorldEdit. I use the creative world sparingly, mostly to design the outline of buildings, but I didn't even know the creative world had WorldEdit until a few weeks ago. This is a big draw for builders. Making this more known will increase interest in the creative world and building in general.

The staff are also in dire need of world staff, increasing the appeal of the creative world should help bring in people who are suited to world staff. Just some food for thought.

I encourage other players to think about this and try to formulate some solutions, however, I also think there is only so much we can do as players with limited information.

If the staff wish to crowd-source the community for solutions on this, I suggest giving the community more information on the issue (I'm assuming you have access to this data, but I could be wrong).

  • How many total plots are available in total? (As if merged plots had been broken up)
  • How many plots are claimed right now?
  • How many of those plots are active/how many players spend a substantial amount of time on the creative server?
  • How much of the Massivecraft server can be dedicated to the creative world/How crowded can the creative server get before it starts causing problems?
Those are just some suggestions that I think might help people get ideas.

Sorry for the long post!
TL;DR:

  • Restore inactive plots for a trial period to determine its effectiveness at decreasing the number of claimed plots, then possibly increase claim limits
  • Advertise the creative world more
  • If the staff wish to crowd-source a solution, give the players more data so we can understand the issue better
 
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I understand the need/want for bigger creative spaces and more plots but I don't quite understand the particular complaint here. I personally have my own private creative server I share with faction members and friends. Otherwise I have a single plot here on the server which I use on occasion for decent sized buildings or just block combinations.

Now since you stated you wanted something for RPing, I personally don't understand why you can't draft out the hold in another creative area, such as single player, then build it in factions. Is it just because you don't want to spend the time and resources collecting what you need and building?

Perhaps we could implement a small, separate creative servers made specifically for roleplay. But this however sounds much like a feature that would belong under Premium Membership.

If none of this is helpful, create a strong argument stating why you feel things should change and not just what you feel should change. More likely than not all staff are open to ideas like this, but the why is always more important than the what. For example: surveying players and getting testimonials? This is concrete evidence and not just speculation. It isn't much help just stating a lot of players want to see this change.
 
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Now since you stated you wanted something for RPing, I personally don't understand why you can't draft out the hold in another creative area, such as single player, then build it in factions. Is it just because you don't want to spend the time and resources collecting what you need and building?

Building something in factions takes a lot of time and sets a lot of limits. I have attempted to run a roleplay faction before, and it was in no way enjoyable.

Perhaps we could implement a small, separate creative servers made specifically for roleplay. But this however sounds much like a feature that would belong under Premium Membership

Sounds like something nobody would use. Most of your premium roleplayers are content with the setting they have now.

Also, this isn't really important enough for me to keep on arguing. If you don't see this as an issue, keep things the way they are - You're wasting potential, but that's not really my business.
 
Building something in factions takes a lot of time and sets a lot of limits. I have attempted to run a roleplay faction before, and it was in no way enjoyable.



Sounds like something nobody would use. Most of your premium roleplayers are content with the setting they have now.

Also, this isn't really important enough for me to keep on arguing. If you don't see this as an issue, keep things the way they are - You're wasting potential, but that's not really my business.
You made it your business by making a topic about it. There are no arguments going on here, a discussion of points, counter points, and ideas. Ideas aren't something that can be immediately implemented.

If you believe we are wasting potential, get concrete evidence that this is a feature that people want and should be implemented. Not objective based assumptions and opinions. Opinions are a start, but not always an answer. This is the first time I've seen someone bring up this point, I'm not finding it a bad idea, just no one else seems to be defending this idea with you.

At the moment there are several ways around this limit as presented by other players in this thread but you're not willing to explore them. I guarantee you there are RPers who'll never use creative that'll let you use their plots. Or "worse", just strike up a conversation and make a few more RP friends, ask around in the forums, etc.
 
You made it your business by making a topic about it. There are no arguments going on here, a discussion of points, counter points, and ideas. Ideas aren't something that can be immediately implemented.

If you believe we are wasting potential, get concrete evidence that this is a feature that people want and should be implemented. Not objective based assumptions and opinions. Opinions are a start, but not always an answer. This is the first time I've seen someone bring up this point, I'm not finding it a bad idea, just no one else seems to be defending this idea with you.

At the moment there are several ways around this limit as presented by other players in this thread but you're not willing to explore them. I guarantee you there are RPers who'll never use creative that'll let you use their plots. Or "worse", just strike up a conversation and make a few more RP friends, ask around in the forums, etc.

I don't really care anymore. You can lock this thread.
 
Kaezir does not speak for the staff. Changes are planned for Creative, at some point. I just don't know when I have time to sit down and get a full plan of approach going. For now I'm busy until at least the end of the month.
 
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