Archived Empires!

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gridiron1024

gridiron1024

Necro Slayer
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Valoria
Hello,
I'm sure quite a few of you remember back when Empires were rumored to be a planned feature of Factions V2. Obviously, they were not included, so I am here with an idea on how to incorporate empires into Massivecraft. For some of you old players, you remember back when large empires like Serenum or Pristina ruled the server. Since those days, especially in recent times, I have seen no real empires rise to power. Why would that be a good thing? I think Empires add a certain flavor to the Factions universe that makes it very fun to play. Empire vs. Empire wars, as well as all the politics and events that Empires used to have were very fun to be a part of. Obviously, with dedication, any player can go out and make the next large Empire, so why the plugin? I think if BASIC empire commands and structure was added to the factions plugin, it would encourage more people to go out and start well functioning empires.

So this concept would basically make Empires nothing too fancy, more like a basic faction, although it would be an Empire rather than a Faction, and have Factions rather than players. The commands and a quick overview of what I think they should do follow:
Commands:
/f e Create [Creates the Empire]
/f e Name [Changes the name of the Empire]
/f e Desc [Changes the empire description]
/f e [Works life /f f , giving current Empire Information]
/f e invite (Faction name) [Invites a faction to the empire]
/f e kick (Faction name) [Kicks the faction from the Empire]
/f e list [Displays a list of all Empires]
/f e Capitol (Faction Name) [Sets the Capitol faction, the leader of which is the Emporer]
/f e perms [Change Several Permissions {More detail further down}]
/f e Enemy/Truce/Ally (Faction name) [Sets relation status for all factions in the Empire, overrides individual faction relations]
If the idea gets support, I will work on a full list of commands, but I'm sure you get the basic idea.

Now for a few other pluses and restrictions on empires:
Empires cannot claim land, that would be up to factions within it
The addition of an Empire chat! Looks like ally chat, but for Empire members. Channel is E:
Adds two new levels to the Faction Perms commands: Emperor, and Officer's of the Capitol.
Empires would be much more costly than a faction. Not just anyone deserves an Empire. Although this is obviously a debatable point, I would say somewhere around 800 silver.

A few permissions as follows would also be added for Empires:
Empire set relation
Empire Invite
Empire Kick
Empire sethome
Empire setdesc
Empire setname
As with the Commands, I will add to the list if the idea gets support

I will add more to the suggestion if good ideas are brought about below. Please leave all feedback below. If you click disagree, please explain why! Constructive criticism is key to developing an idea.
Thats all I got for now, have a nice day
-Grid
 
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i don't like the idea if being forced in an empire:S but that is how it works i supose?
if there was something that faction could do to get free (a revolution type of thingy) then it would be fine for me.
 
Spiderer1210 said:
SUPORT
I like this idea.

You have every right to a voice, but what you are saying is wrong, not just unpopular. An RP war is one that has an RP backing, and is more realistic than just raiding people for fun.

  • RP war = Raiding because of a valid reason, like that the faction shelters vampires or undead, or they attacked your members.
  • Other = Raiding for fun, because someone said something stupid in global, ect.
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This is basically what you said: "You are wrong solely because I say so"

You know what, I refuse to believe you unless you can provide a link with valid evidence supporting your statement, until then it will remain as your personal opinion and a fallacy.
 
hentem said:
This is basically what you said: "You are wrong solely because I say so"

You know what, I refuse to believe you unless you can provide a link with valid evidence supporting your statement, until then it will remain as your personal opinion and a fallacy.
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Yo kid... Shh. We all know you have your own personal opinion but what gives you the right to speak for others? If a majority of the server likes something, then they can post about it and to be honest, this server has empires already when they put the empire's name in faction's description. Adding empires will define it more and will add more of an RP colonization for the server. Therefor, I agree with Grid.
 
hentem said:
This is basically what you said: "You are wrong solely because I say so"

You know what, I refuse to believe you unless you can provide a link with valid evidence supporting your statement, until then it will remain as your personal opinion and a fallacy.
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No. It is "You are wrong because everyone else says so".
My opinion on RP wars is based off of the many 'War-Rp' threads in In-Game Tutorials And Guides, and many other people have similar views.

Also, on this thread, you seem to just be having a hissy fit at the idea of someone forcing you into their empire.
The addition of empires is not at all going to mean that you are attacked more, why would someone attack an rp faction? Even if they are forcing factions in for soldiers, they will be uninterested in press ganging non-fighters like you, as it would be a complete waste of their time.
 
gridiron1024
Id like to congratulate you and everyone who promoted the empire Idea with achieving the 50 agree milestone. (note sure if it is a milestone but still:P)

I hope this surgestion is being placed close to the top of the to do list of the staff. ;) I believe you earned it with the support you received . (still staff decision but still, its my opinion:P)

hentem
Alright you have made your point... Will you please stop posting about the same argument now? (also asking no one to reply further on the argument;)) Lets just stick to topic now. :)
 
hentem said:
no
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Look. I understand your arguments, and respect your opinion, but you have taken its bit too far. You disagree with everything that everyone says, whether it is on topic or not. That being said, you are not the only one doing that. Comments are purposes to be constructive, not immature flaming.
 
1)
gridiron1024, I really love the idea of adding empires. But I have questions about the diplomacy. Ccould you explain how the diplomacy between factions/empires will work or how you want it to work? Empires can enemy individual factions as well as other empires? And if Empires can declare war, you said this will override the individual faction relations? Will the individual faction be able to enemy an ally of the Empire after they joined that Empire, or will this be 'locked'?

2)
I actually wanted to add something to the faction additions thread about diplomacy. But then I stumbled upon this thread and maybe it's something you and other people can look at.

I personally don't like the current diplomacy system, mainly because of the fact that two (or more) of your allies can be each others' enemies. I'm not saying this could never happen IRL, but in this game (with so many individual factions) it starts to become messy. And the line between enemy and ally is becoming blurred. It's not uncommon to see your ally having a dialogue (or monologue.. ) with your enemy in alliance chat. Or when you try to defend your ally against raiders, but realising that those raiders are your allies too.. Or the other way around. When you want to help out on a raid and realise that you can't, because your allies are attacking another ally..

I used to play the old Total War games, and I really liked that system. I don't know how the last few TW games work but in the older ones it was something like this:
Whenever ally A attacks ally B, you would be given the choice to either side with the attacker (ally A), which resulted in ally B becoming a common enemy. Or you could choose not to help ally A. In that case the alliance between you and A would end (become neutral) while you stay allied to ally B.

This system would give us at least some kind of oversight on this server regarding alliances/wars. Because all your allies would then be actually part of an alliance, without you having to worry about an ally being allied to your enemy. I think this kind of system works better than the current one, if we were to add empires to this server. What's your opinion on this?
 
We're still debating this? Oh, and Hemtem is still here... well, in that case, I still support Empires.
 
Gonna bump this thread to maybe get a staff response, as it has quite a bit of public support.
 
Ermahgerd mer wernts ert nerw
 
Look can any admin or somethin' staff or whatever get rid of this flamin' idiots we are debattin' a idea. Not if his opinion doesn't matter or Whatever bullcrap they spit out of there mouths...
No. Just. No.
 
Since this post has managed to rack up over 70 positive ratings, I am going to bump once more to get an official staff response on the idea, as it is quite popular to the forum community.

At the same time, to adress price ideas, I am thinking around 10k regals (jemoeder2021) as it would force factions to work together in most cases of creating an Empire rather than having small, one faction empires.
 
Kikopuz said:
-Snip-
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Never got around to replying to this, I apologize.
It seems most of your suggestion would be put towards the factions plugin rather than Empires. In that case, I encourage you to make it as a suggestion as it is a well-thought out idea. As far as clarifying Empire diplomacy, when I intended was that if the Empire sets a relation, such as /f e ally Scrubs, then every faction within the Empire would get added to it's ally list, and vice versa. Individual factions could not un-ally this faction, unless the faction leader/officer was given the proper Empire permission to set relation status for the Empire.
 
Sounds good grid, you've got my support for this idea, i've always wondered if empires could be implemented without causing too much complications but your idea seems do-able.
 
....THEN THE _____ EMPIRE COULD BE FOR REAL!!!
-notices the other people and runs away-
 
Qeusk said:
Sounds good grid, you've got my support for this idea, i've always wondered if empires could be implemented without causing too much complications but your idea seems do-able.
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Thanks :), my goal with this idea was to create something that is simple enough to not cause confusion, yet add a new dimension to the factions world.

On a completely unrelated note, not to seem impatient, but I am going to tag Cayorion to this thread to try and get some staff feedback before I go ahead and post some more ideas I will have time to develop over the next few days.
 
I own an empire that consists of 3 factions, and many times I find it's hard to communicate and coordinate with my fiefs efficiently. This feature sounds like it would really help.

+1 Support
 
I think it would be pretty neat if this was implemented, and if it was....

Brimstone would rule the world.
Brimstone
- Brimstone Military
---Brimstone Legions
-----Alpha
-----Beta
-----Charlie
-----Foxtrot
- Brimstone Tech
--- Brimstone Explosives
- Brimstone Agriculture
--- Brimstone <Insert the technical name for tree farms>
- Brimstone Relations
- Brimstone Spec Ops
- Brimstone... Eh, you get the point.
 
Cayorion MonMarty there is a massive support base for this idea, can we implement this? Or at least put it on high priority on your list of things to do ?
 
This looks like it would be very amazing seeing empires rise to power. With that alone and the commands this could be awsome.

+1SUPPORT
 
gridiron1024 said:
Never got around to replying to this, I apologize.
[..] As far as clarifying Empire diplomacy, when I intended was that if the Empire sets a relation, such as /f e ally Scrubs, then every faction within the Empire would get added to it's ally list, and vice versa. Individual factions could not un-ally this faction, unless the faction leader/officer was given the proper Empire permission to set relation status for the Empire.
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Thanks for responding. I have a few follow up questions though. Take for example this scenario:

What happens if Faction A enemies Faction B and they raid them. Then Faction B surrenders to Faction A and pays max tribute. Faction A has to truce Faction B according to the server rules.
Now... Faction A joins Empire 1 and Faction B joins Empire 2. Both empires are already at war with each other. This means Faction A's truce with Faction B will be overridden by Empire 1's relation status to Empire 2 (and of course to Faction B) which is war.

So in this example, is Faction A allowed to re-raid Faction B again? If so, then it would be against the server rules which state that Faction A has to truce them. And what if they are not allowed? Won't faction A be rendered useless in the war if they can't even attack their own enemies? Or are they only allowed to defend their Empire?
 
Kikopuz said:
Thanks for responding. I have a few follow up questions though. Take for example this scenario:

What happens if Faction A enemies Faction B and they raid them. Then Faction B surrenders to Faction A and pays max tribute. Faction A has to truce Faction B according to the server rules.
Now... Faction A joins Empire 1 and Faction B joins Empire 2. Both empires are already at war with each other. This means Faction A's truce with Faction B will be overridden by Empire 1's relation status to Empire 2 (and of course to Faction B) which is war.

So in this example, is Faction A allowed to re-raid Faction B again? If so, then it would be against the server rules which state that Faction A has to truce them. And what if they are not allowed? Won't faction A be rendered useless in the war if they can't even attack their own enemies? Or are they only allowed to defend their Empire?
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It would work similarly to how alliances do now. My example;
If faction A defeats faction B in a war and makes them surrender, they are allowed to raid again if faction B goes and joins an alliance that is going to war with faction A. If they do not want to resume a war, they will try ending it with their Empire, or simply join another Empire. Putting yourself in league with enemies of a faction should certainly be enough of a reason to resume a war, and I believe that is how it currently is regarding alliances/factions.
 
I think the only problem with this is that there would be way too many empires cause so many people would want them. Plus, there would be the ones that have been abandoned and are just taking up good land. I think that you should be able to upgrade a successful faction, like Sovereign Legion, into an empire. Otherwise...
Supported!
 
snsparks said:
I think the only problem with this is that there would be way too many empires cause so many people would want them. Plus, there would be the ones that have been abandoned and are just taking up good land. I think that you should be able to upgrade a successful faction, like Sovereign Legion, into an empire. Otherwise...
Supported!
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That is what a high price point does. Restricts too many Empires from rising out of nothing. As far as faction upgrades go, I think that would cause the problem you predicted. Keeping high prices would require several faction donations. Also, as far as land goes, Empires dont get extra land. They just use the factions land within their Empire.
 
Wow, this is great, I think that was the key thing I, and lots of others miss from "The old days" of massivecraft (Like only a year ago lol) is the big empire vs empire wars, with huge, hours long raids with multiple battles happening across a city, cannons booming, that was great fun. Nowadays the closest thing we have is huge factions with "Dream teams" of pvpers dominating everyone, and loosely organized "empires" that have no real impact or meaning other than having another factions name in their description. This would be great, but I remember that after the fall of most of the really big empires, like LumnI, Algaron, and tons of others, lots of little noob empires tried to fill the vacuum, creating what we have today, tons of tiny, dispersed empires that rarely fight and unite as one. I support this, but I don't think we need to be encouraging even more nub empires to begin, as most of them haven't even developed into anything special, just gone inactive or fell apart. Instead, I think we should be supporting larger empires growing, and have a system that would unify the individual factions within an empire, both of which you have done, and I support this 100%.
 
SenorWorkman said:
Wow, this is great, I think that was the key thing I, and lots of others miss from "The old days" of massivecraft (Like only a year ago lol) is the big empire vs empire wars, with huge, hours long raids with multiple battles happening across a city, cannons booming, that was great fun. Nowadays the closest thing we have is huge factions with "Dream teams" of pvpers dominating everyone, and loosely organized "empires" that have no real impact or meaning other than having another factions name in their description. This would be great, but I remember that after the fall of most of the really big empires, like LumnI, Algaron, and tons of others, lots of little noob empires tried to fill the vacuum, creating what we have today, tons of tiny, dispersed empires that rarely fight and unite as one. I support this, but I don't think we need to be encouraging even more nub empires to begin, as most of them haven't even developed into anything special, just gone inactive or fell apart. Instead, I think we should be supporting larger empires growing, and have a system that would unify the individual factions within an empire, both of which you have done, and I support this 100%.
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I think that the super long battles are here, just earlier today Damorn and it's allies fought Ridenval at Damorn's base for over 2 hours.
 
Grid, seeing that you were once a general of 9thLegion, and Me, being a vehement supporter of the goals of the Allied Collective, Empire vs. Empire vs. Empire would wreck the server economically. how ironic, a general of a faction that was against global war.
 
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