Archived World Classification And Division: How To Save Faction Survival

[Gumee]

MassiveCraft needs to recognize that there is a division in the player base on multiple levels. Currently there's role play in regalia, building in the creative world, questing in the questing world, but there's a lot of disagreement about factions. Rather than melt everyone together, we need to push players towards separate features that they can choose to customize their experience. Like how many mmorpgs have differently labeled servers (RP, PvP, RPPvP, PvE), MassiveCraft needs to adapt its worlds to certain play styles. For example:

Teled Methen (Roleplay/PvE): (Dynmap: Enabled) Would you like to build and mind your business, with PvP disabled? Do you want large maps so you have elbow room in between you and your neighbors? If you want to have interaction role play and build with your friends this is the world for you. You can apply to have your faction fit into the lore and be recognized in Regalia. (Recommended for new players)
Ithania (PvP): (Dynmap: Disabled) You want to build secure fortresses and towers with intricate traps? Want to use /tp RaidFactionName to fight small potpvp fights? Or do you want to organize large hour long raids with your allies against other super powers? Do you want smaller worlds, easier to navigate? This is the server for you. (Recommended for old players)
Fendarfell (Roleplay/PvP): (Dynmap: Enabled) Do you dream of designing kingdoms? Do you want to wage lore-appropriate and casual PvP raids against one another that make an impact on the world progression? Do you have a lot of pride for your faction? Do you want extensive diplomatic meetings where you negotiate relations and trade? This is the server for you. (I highly recommend that this be for veteran players and require an application to claim land for your faction on this server).

Disclaimer: I used existing names for familiarity. If you're going to select worlds for each category, you'd need to collect data and figure out what player base matches each category the best, then give appropriate time for players to switch between worlds. (Also note there's no "Roleplay" only server, because that would just be Regalia).

Before I explain why this is a beneficial system, I'm just going to address a few kinks and their solutions about the aforementioned system:

1. Inevitably players will lose builds. This system doesn't imply that they'll be forced to relinquish their cities, but if it's a PvP world, and the town is run by RPers, then they won't be able to RP there any longer. There's a couple ways to combat this. First, we give ample time to allow players to transfer their items before this system goes into effect. Staff can assist in moving builds if they're deemed worthy. Second, if the faction really chooses to abandon those claims, then game/world staff can examine the builds and potentially purchase them from the players to be saved as either public war zones or lore compliant cities. Of course, the original faction owners can choose to name the builds and be credited for building them.
2. Factions should be able to claim in multiple worlds, (keeping the cap at three) so that you don't have to limit a faction to a single play style.
3. Let all players participate in the RPPvP server, but require faction leaders fill out an application to demonstrate their faction meets certain criteria before they join and claim land. This will make world progressions easier.
4. If a faction is in a world, but not adhering to the play style outlined, players can report said faction to staff for disrupting the environment, and staff will review the situation and either dismiss the complaint or ask the accused to switch to an appropriate world or risk penalty.
5. I recommend making the new world into the first Roleplay/PvP server. This is so players don't have to write an application to keep their claims in an existing world, even if they don't intend to play in that world.
6. Wanting to build in certain terrain, but not wanting to play in the style of the world, could be problematic. But there's so much overlap in the worlds. There's multiple deserts, snowy biomes, mountain ranges, forests, etc across all the maps. It shouldn't be too hard to balance biomes between play styles. As for resources, nothing stopping you from going to different worlds and mining wilderness like you already are able to.

Now, reasons why this will benefit the MassiveCraft community:

1. It will reduce discourse between players with different play styles
2. It groups like minded players together and makes finding a faction with similar ambitions to your own as a player.
3. It reduces faction spread, making it much easier to find and travel to active factions you'd like to interact with and who will interact with you in the way you'd want. If you know that every faction is in the world to PvP, it makes it a lot easier to find neighbors you can fight with. And if you know everyone wants to build, you can coordinate infrastructure between cities.
4. It allows new players (a recent buzz word I've found; everyone wants to cater to the new players it seems like) to know exactly what the server has to offer, instead of digging around, because there isn't really a formal tutorial outlying all the different ways you can get the most out of MassiveCraft aside from the usual factions/rpg/building tags that every server has. This let's you know that okay, this is MassiveCraft specific PvP and this is MassiveCraft specific RP and so forth.

TL;DR
Just read the bold stuff.

 

[LemiaSerenDipity]

I'm completely for this idea. It would seriously help all players if this was implemented, both old ones and newcomers.
The only issue there would be is the fact that a number of factions would have to move their things around to a new world or restart altogether to adhere to these new rules. Not that I would care, but I'm sure some faction leaders would find it really inconvenient to move all their things because they aren't adhering to the world's guidelines.

 

[Gumee]

I'm completely for this idea. It would seriously help all players if this was implemented, both old ones and newcomers.
The only issue there would be is the fact that a number of factions would have to move their things around to a new world or restart altogether to adhere to these new rules. Not that I would care, but I'm sure some faction leaders would find it really inconvenient to move all their things because they aren't adhering to the world's guidelines.

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This is of course a huge concern. Thats why I suggest giving ample warning of what the playstyle of the world will be, before its enforced. Players will be unhappy at first, but if we're gonna progress we can't make everyone happy.

If they continue to not adhere to the listed playstyle (which would be difficult as I'm suggesting PvP be physically turned off in Roleplay worlds and its hard to avoid it in PvP worlds; this is more directed at the RP/PvP worlds) then they will be given ample warning before penalization. If they choose to ignore those warnings, then in my opinion, the consequences are justified.

 

[Jalapeno690]

Completely agree!! It would allow for greater variance

 

[BogeyBanshee]

That would make so much sense, and would allow for cross-terrain RP, and KOS PVP without the players insistence to each other to kill or to RP upon contact.

 

[Viomii]

I'm not so sure.. I feel like splitting playstyles will just continue the divide going.

As a new player, I feel like it would be a lot easier to get into and a lot more straightforward if pretty much the entirety of MassiveCraft was your proposed Fendarfell.

I don't feel like the complexity or the lore is what is off-putting to new players. To me, at least, the most off-putting thing so far has been the fact that if I want to seriously roleplay within the lore and whatnot, I have to do it in this single city without any player-run anything. If I want to join factions, my actions stop having an impact on the lore and the world.

Maybe I'm just someone who would play exclusively on Fendarfell and that's why I'm of this opinion.. But I think what really needs to be done is enforce the lore and RPing across factions. I would totally play factions if it was lore-enforced and people would roleplay with me there. The safety of Regalia is nice for starting out but it would be nice to leave the confines of that safety-net and still getting to seriously roleplay.

 

[Gumee]

I'm not so sure.. I feel like splitting playstyles will just continue the divide going.

As a new player, I feel like it would be a lot easier to get into and a lot more straightforward if pretty much the entirety of MassiveCraft was your proposed Fendarfell.

I don't feel like the complexity or the lore is what is off-putting to new players. To me, at least, the most off-putting thing so far has been the fact that if I want to seriously roleplay within the lore and whatnot, I have to do it in this single city without any player-run anything. If I want to join factions, my actions stop having an impact on the lore and the world.

Maybe I'm just someone who would play exclusively on Fendarfell and that's why I'm of this opinion.. But I think what really needs to be done is enforce the lore and RPing across factions. I would totally play factions if it was lore-enforced and people would roleplay with me there. The safety of Regalia is nice for starting out but it would be nice to leave the confines of that safety-net and still getting to seriously roleplay.

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I think you're last paragraph explains your opinion. Having been on MassiveCraft for 3+ years, my faction has evolved to match each of those 3 categories.

At one point we were just a PvP powerhouse, and that's all we did. We didn't care about lore, or anything. We just /f enemy'd every one in chat who wasn't an enemy and raided the crap out of them. If you told us that "you guys weren't being lore compliant" we would have just laughed in your face and kept going. In fact, at one point someone got staff involved and forced us to stop raiding this one faction. That really pissed us off, and we stopped playing for about a month.

When PvP was really beyond broken, we turned to roleplay. We focused on beautifying our city and really developing the architecture. I have some really breath taking screen shots and I'm sure I could dig up posts I've written about the lore of the old island. Sadly, people just wanted to either PvP us while we were building and roleplaying, when we had zero interest, making it difficult.

Now, we've got a new city and we're trying to find a balance. We built this awesome cavernous town, that's comepletly raid proof. Although we've been casually raiding, trying to get back into PvP, we're not exactly competitive. We arent mass producing pots to the level we should be, nor are we active enough to be a threat. In all honesty, we don't really want to be. There's no point to PvP anymore, it doesn't feel like it used to. We'd instead like our city to not go to waste so we're looking to flesh out the lore and recrut RPers who'd like to use it as a setting.

I agree RP/PvP would be the most desireable for me, currently. But, not everyone is me, or you. Some players want the other features more than the others. Which is also why I suggest being able to claim in multplie servers. Sometimes we get bored of one thing and want to branch out. We're all interested in different aspects of factions. Sadly, I know from experience, they don't blend together well.

 

[Lyee]

While I completely agree with the idea of this idea (you know?), I have one issue with it; The Terrain. Say I'm a roleplayer, and I want to have my city in the extremely large mountains that border Northern Ithania. I couldn't because that's a roleplay world. The same could be said with features of different maps, though I'm shamefully unfamiliar with most. Basicly, the unique terrain (and resources, I know realize) of each world makes this idea near impossible, to me.

 

[Gumee]

While I completely agree with the idea of this idea (you know?), I have one issue with it; The Terrain. Say I'm a roleplayer, and I want to have my city in the extremely large mountains that border Northern Ithania. I couldn't because that's a roleplay world. The same could be said with features of different maps, though I'm shamefully unfamiliar with most. Basicly, the unique terrain (and resources, I know realize) of each world makes this idea near impossible, to me.

Click to shrink...

I think there's enough variation within the maps that you can succesfully find terrain within each category. For example, at least three maps have deserts off the top of my head. The only map that I think is entirely unique is Hyarroc, but even then, there's jungles in Fendarfell.

As for resources, I think every world pretty much has the same resources. That being said, with MassiveRestore, there's nothing stopping you from just going to another world, even if its not your playstyle, just to mine resources. I currently dont have any claims in Ithania, but I still mine sandstone out in the wilderness there.

These are good points I'll add them to the kinks and solutions section in the original post.

 

[Lyee]

I think there's enough variation within the maps that you can succesfully find terrain within each category. For example, at least three maps have deserts off the top of my head. The only map that I think is entirely unique is Hyarroc, but even then, there's jungles in Fendarfell.

As for resources, I think every world pretty much has the same resources. That being said, with MassiveRestore, there's nothing stopping you from just going to another world, even if its not your playstyle, just to mine resources. I currently dont have any claims in Ithania, but I still mine sandstone out in the wilderness there.

These are good points I'll add them to the kinks and solutions section in the original post.

Click to shrink...

You pretty much covered what I said, so, thank you!

 

[Boogjangels]

I know literally everyone has said this in some form or another, but this is a great idea, there's just that one problem.... I think you already know what it is by now (I apologize for bringing it up again). However, I'd like to add that I think this setup could easily work if we where to do a hard reset (meaning a complete map reset of all the worlds). Now in no way am I advocating for resetting the survival maps, but if we didn't and still went ahead with the reform you're proposing, would pre-existing factions be penalized for not playing by that map type's rules?

For example, I've built a big ol' roleplay faction in New Ceardia, so if New Ceardia was labeled a PvP only map and we refused to PvP, would we then be punished for it? Maybe there could be some sort of voting system where all the factions who call a particular world home can vote on what type of map it would be?

Why haven't we ever tried making a congress of factions, holy shit that would be fun....

 

[Gumee]

Disclaimer: I used existing names for familiarity. If you're going to select worlds for each category, you'd need to collect data and figure out what player base matches each category the best, then give appropriate time for players to switch between worlds. (Also note there's no "Roleplay" only server, because that would just be Regalia).

4) I recommend making the new world into the first Roleplay/PvP server. This is so players dont have to write an application to keep their claims in an existing world, even if they dont intend to play in that world.
5) Wanting to build in certain terrain, but not wanting to play in the style of the world, could be problematic. But there's so much overlap in the worlds. There's multiple deserts, snowy biomes, mountain ranges, forests, etc across all the maps. It shouldn't be too hard to balance biomes between play styles. As for resources, nothing stopping you from going to different worlds and mining wilderness like you already are able to.

Click to shrink...

Players are going to compete for the maps. The way its set up, all players are spread on all maps. Really the only way to appease them is to take a census and figure out which worlds have the highest percentage of specific playstyles and help assist players in transfering their items. There's enough similarities in the worlds that it shouldn't be too difficult to find a new location thats visually similar. Plus, we're not saying those players need to relinquish their claims. But just not use them as they were before. Maybe they could even sell those builds to the server to be used in quests or as warzones (I'll put this specific alternative under kinks and solutions).

 

[Boogjangels]

Players are going to compete for the maps. The way its set up, all players are spread on all maps. Really the only way to appease them is to take a census and figure out which worlds have the highest percentage of specific playstyles and help assist players in transfering their items. There's enough similarities in the worlds that it shouldn't be too difficult to find a new location thats visually similar. Plus, we're not saying those players need to relinquish their claims. But just not use them as they were before. Maybe they could even sell those builds to the server to be used in quests or as warzones (I'll put this specific alternative under kinks and solutions).

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I think you're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. You could just keep the three types you already have (RP, RP/PVP, PVP) and just have PvP disabled on the RP servers. Let me give examples..

If a roleplay faction decides to set up shop on a PvP server, obviously they're gonna get their asses handed to them so they'll most likely migrate to a RP server.

If a PvP faction decides to set up shop on a RP server, well. They can't kill anyone so that's kinda gonna suck lol

Now the last one is the most complicated, because I'm not sure how the rules would enforce themselves on a server with both RP and PVP, perhaps this would be the one type that might need some sort of moderation.

Just like you said in your original post, Many MMORPG's use this format to make it easier to find like minded people to play with (and it works very well!), but, have you ever heard of a player being transfered from a MMO's PvP server just because they like to roleplay? Or vice versa?

TL;DR, I don't think staff moderation and forced migration are a good idea at all. While I like this idea, we would need to find a way to incentive players to play on the appropriate maps rather than penalize them for playing on the "wrong" ones

 

[Gumee]

Honestly, I think you're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. You could just keep the three types you already have (RP, RP/PVP, PVP) and just have PvP disabled on the RP servers. Let me give examples..

If a roleplay faction decides to set up shop on a PvP server, obviously they're gonna get their asses handed to them so they'll most likely migrate to a RP server.

If a PvP faction decides to set up shop on a RP server, well. They can't kill anyone so that's kinda gonna suck lol

Now the last one is the most complicated, because I'm not sure how the rules would enforce themselves on a server with both RP and PVP, perhaps this would be the one type that might need some sort of moderation.

Just like you said in your original post, Many MMORPG's use this format to make it easier to find like minded people to play with (and it works very well!), but, have you ever heard of a player being transfered from a MMO's PvP server just because they like to roleplay? Or vice versa?

TL;DR, I don't think staff moderation and forced migration are a good idea at all. While I like this idea, we would need to find a way to incentive players to play on the appropriate maps rather than penalize them for playing on the "wrong" ones

Click to shrink...

I misunderstood your concern I think. I've reformatted the kinks and solutions, with the first on the list being the answer to what I thought was your previous concern.

If this system were to go into place, I'm suggesting there be a grace period for players to migrate to their appropriately classified world. In no way will they be forced to move. However, if there's an RP faction in a PvP world, and they're consistently complaining about being raided all the time, and enough PvPers think that the faction is not participating, then they can file a complaint against the faction. If staff deems that they are not adhering to the appropriate guidelines for that world, they can strongly suggest the players relocate. They'd be given enough time (it'd very based on the size of the faction) to migrate to a more appropriate world with staff (world edit) assistance.

For the PvP/RP hybrid, I state that I highly recommend that it require an application from the faction leader. It'd be run similarly to CoK, with seasons and lore progression, decorated with bits of casual PvP that has an impact on the relations of all participating factions. That'd require participants to be knowledgeable of the server, the expectations for engaging in such playstyle, and the lore of massivecraft. Thus I recommend it for veteran players.

The idea of needing to incentive players to play on the right maps is kind of redundant. If you want to RP, you move to a roleplay map, if you want to PvP, you move to a PvP map. The incentive is that you'll be grouped with players who share similar interests and ambitions that you can better enjoy your time on massive with. I know a lot of RPers and builders who want to play free of PvP, and I know plenty of PvPers who want intense, challenging PvP action, and then there's some in the middle. The incentive is that by reading the labels and choosing appropriately, you'll be awarded with the playstyle you seek.

 

[Boogjangels]

If this system were to go into place, I'm suggesting there be a grace period for players to migrate to their appropriately classified world. In no way will they be forced to move. However, if there's an RP faction in a PvP world, and they're consistently complaining about being raided all the time, and enough PvPers think that the faction is not participating, then they can file a complaint against the faction. If staff deems that they are not adhering to the appropriate guidelines for that world, they can strongly suggest the players relocate. They'd be given enough time (it'd very based on the size of the faction) to migrate to a more appropriate world with staff (world edit) assistance.

Click to shrink...

This seems fair. As long as no one is forced to leave, I see no problem with this.

For the PvP/RP hybrid, I state that I highly recommend that it require an application from the faction leader. It'd be run similarly to CoK, with seasons and lore progression, decorated with bits of casual PvP that has an impact on the relations of all participating factions. That'd require participants to be knowledgeable of the server, the expectations for engaging in such playstyle, and the lore of massivecraft. Thus I recommend it for veteran players.

Click to shrink...

None of the existing worlds would be made into one of these hybrids, correct? If it were, I think the application process would get some serious backlash from the original inhabitants.

I misunderstood your concern I think. I've reformatted the kinks and solutions, with the first on the list being the answer to what I thought was your previous concern.

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This made much more sense, thank you for clearing that up.

 

[Gumee]

None of the existing worlds would be made into one of these hybrids, correct? If it were, I think the application process would get some serious backlash from the original inhabitants.

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Ultimately, that would be up to the ones who would implement the idea. I suggested the new world be the first to fall under this category, and leave the old worlds as one of the other two options becaue I agree, having to apply to keep your claims would suck.

 

[BenRekt]

This is literally the equivalent of saying that the solution to the RP v. PvP divide is to get rid of PvP. I don't think anything like this will ever come to the server, so I'm not even going to bother saying why this is a bad idea.

 

[Gumee]

This is literally the equivalent of saying that the solution to the RP v. PvP divide is to get rid of PvP. I don't think anything like this will ever come to the server, so I'm not even going to bother saying why this is a bad idea.

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You are mistaken. This is system doesn't alienate a player group, in fact it's rather inclusive. I'm wondering if you even read it? This isn't getting rid of one group or the other, this is establishing a niche environment for every player to gravitate towards based on their preferences.

 

[BenRekt]

You are mistaken. This is system doesn't alienate a player group, in fact it's rather inclusive. I'm wondering if you even read it? This isn't getting rid of one group or the other, this is establishing a niche environment for every player to gravitate towards based on their preferences.

Click to shrink...

Of course I read it. Do you even understand the consequences of your own proposition? Can you honestly not see that having survival worlds without PvP would effectively be the final nail in the coffin for the RP and PvP divide? Now, instead of RPers and PvPers getting at least some interaction together through building and surviving in the same world, all RPers will only play in PvE worlds. The remaining PvPers will be in continually inactive dying worlds because nobody wants to join a dying community.

You literally contradicted yourself in the same paragraph, in case you didn't realize -

>This is inclusive
>This divides everyone into their niche

You need to pick one or the other.

I'm done replying to this post because I've already been assured nothing like this will ever happen.

 

[Gumee]

Of course I read it. Do you even understand the consequences of your own proposition? Can you honestly not see that having survival worlds without PvP would effectively be the final nail in the coffin for the RP and PvP divide? Now, instead of RPers and PvPers getting at least some interaction together through building and surviving in the same world, all RPers will only play in PvE worlds.

You literally contradicted yourself in the same paragraph

>This is inclusive
>This divides everyone into their niche

You need to pick one or the other.

I'm done replying to this post because I've already been assured nothing like this will ever happen.

Click to shrink...

You're looking at the literal short-term effect. You're not seeing the bigger picture. Massive is a diverse server. You can't possibly appease every single play style in one world. The vast majority of issues massive has, is due to the fact that its been trying to deny there's a divide and mend it, rather than working with it. "All RPers will only play PvE worlds" is redundant, because as it stands, the majority of RPers just play in Regalia and only come to the factions to build and socialize. I know because I have been both a PvPer and an RPer. I play on Massive, minigames servers, kit PvP servers, and an assortment of Roleplay oriented servers (some of those I've staffed on).

This solution is inclusive because it gives every playstyle what they want. There is no "forget the PvPers" or "forget the RPers". There is no contradiction. By giving each player their own personal environment you're including everyone. Note I never say "ban all RPers from PvP". There are several sections of the original post where I encourage RP and PvPers to mingle and try other playstyles, in an environment more catered to that playstyle. Thus preventing someone from just going "I'm an RPer now!", because in the context of Massive, what does that really mean.

Thirdly, preventing that "nail in the coffin" is the third world I outlined. RP/PvP would allow a mix of casual PvP with people who want a little bit more lore with their cities and relations.

I ask if you even read the original post, because you're mindset is very cemented. You believe the traditional answer is to "blend it all together" which in facts alienates a group. This is a counter intuitive system, but it would fix the issue. Just look at the discussions on MonMarty's posts. It's a constant bipartisan argument between people who want a PvE experience, vs people who want a PvP experience. There is no way either party wins in a melting pot surivival world.

Also, on a side note: it's rather rude and not constructive to just denounce an idea and declare "its not worth your time" to respond simply because you don't grasp the deeper context and refuse to try.

 

[Boogjangels]

It's a constant bipartisan argument between people who want a PvE experience, vs people who want a PvP experience. There is no way either party wins in a melting pot surivival world.

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Ah, but you see, that's where you're wrong Gumee. Ben seems to be under the impression that all players need to be subjected to PvP in the survival worlds, and it's very clear why. Peaceful players are basically cannon fodder for the PvPer's to kick the shit out of, hence the reason practically all of our role players have migrated to Regalia. Peaceful players (especially roleplayers) have literally nothing to gain from an environment where they're forced to interact with PvPer's, but PvPer's have everything to gain.