Why We Should Stop Flaming.

Discussion in 'PVP Discussion' started by SwiftPvP, Jul 3, 2015.

  1. SwiftPvP

    SwiftPvP champion

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    Recently about a 1 year ago, the Minecraft PvP community had something horrible happen to a player.

    There is an old player named VanillaPockyFox (he never played massive)
    He played alot of PvP servers and was a very nice kind of guy.
    But he received tons of flame and he was told to kill himself too many times...

    And finally he snapped...

    VanillaPockyFox killed himself, almost 1 year ago.

    Can we not let this happen and again and have a flame free chat?

    The PvP community would be so much better if we all just stopped and quit arguing over block game.

    Thanks for reading this,
    SwiftPvP.


    Watch this video for the VanillaPockyFox tribute:
     
  2. Kidmodo

    Kidmodo Slave of Raptum

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  3. Aespair

    Aespair Am I the only one here?

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    I say we stop flaming and offer constructive criticism on people's PvP skills, because that actually helps. It's ridiculous how many people are discouraged from PvPing because of all the ridicule they get for trying.
     
  4. Alj23

    Alj23 Regalian Citizen

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    Why bring this up if the aforementioned incident occurred almost a year ago?

    I mean, I'm not against a reduction in flame. We all know PVP chat did nothing to help that. But to want all flame to stop, you might as well just get rid of PVP chat and perma mute everyone who identifies as a PVPer. As sad as it is to say it, that's just about the only way a completely flame proof pvp scene could exist.
     
  5. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
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    Great ideal, but impossible with this community. The PvP will die and all PvPers will vanish and then one day some random guy will start PvPing from scratch and *maybe* not make the stupid mistakes that have been made in this go round.

    @Alj23 - Because it needs to be said. PvP is dying because PvPers are killing it.
     
  6. Alj23

    Alj23 Regalian Citizen

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    I find it hard to believe that a reduction or complete absence of flame would reinvigorate PVP to the point where it used to be. Most people moved on because either they got to what they deem too old to play and be able to manage life (Ex: Gridiron stopped playing because he went off to college) or they simple don't enjoy the game anymore. Sure, it might help, but there is so much more that has to be done. And like you said, impossible with this community.
     
  7. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    I can give you my 100% assurance there'd be at least another dozen PvPers if you didn't flame. Myself among them, because I honestly don't care about winning every battle. But that freaking flame... it make PvP a horribly unfun form of gameplay because every time you die you get the lovely and supportive response of "EZ-playername" and "REKT!" and "NOOB!" or some combination thereof. The low is not worth the high.
     
  8. Kidmodo

    Kidmodo Slave of Raptum

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    Even members of the PvP community wish for the removal of flame or at least the removal of the PvP chat since the toxicity has greatly increased and actually hurts new PvP'ers coming in since people are just screaming at you 24/7 in that chat and never get punished. But since to many people that can only yell at other players and make them feel bad enjoy it so much it will never be changed. #replacePvPchatwithRPchat2k15
     
  9. LordSylveon

    LordSylveon The Desciple of Cecidit
    1. The Ceciditian Empire -[CE]

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    Well, time to say what needs to be said. Bracing for flame.

    I like the flame. Its fun to read, fun to watch, and brings me a little joy to my day. For a lot of people flaming is a form of venting, which is a healthy way to avoid forms of mental stress. Like it or not, the real issue is people taking it too seriously and to heart. Perhaps if we all remembered that it was a game, we wouldn't have the same issues.

    So yes, in the end it's your own personal problem. If you do not like flame at all, leave PvP chat. If you don't like particular people's form of flame, /ignore them. Don't try to make the server change because you are either too self entitled to enact these commands yourself, or to lazy to be bothered to take the initiative yourself.

    And before the flame starts, let me remind people that I'm not a 'pro pvper' or even a PvPer. I'm about as casual of a player as it gets.

    That about sums it up. It sucks that dude killed himself, and yeah people should be nicer. But everyone has the power to ignore these people, or leave the channel in which the most flame comes from. And if all else fails, let us also remember that this is still a game and the internet. If you are truly feeling 'harmed' by 'words' from people you have never met face to face, and likely never will, might I advise looking into your own life and evaluating it.

    Bring on the hate. It makes me smile.

    AND MAKES ME STRONGER!!!!
     
  10. Kidmodo

    Kidmodo Slave of Raptum

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    Also Alj we never said bring PvP back to where it once was. That is almost impossible due to the nature of Massive and Minecraft itself. Each is always adding new plugins and mechanics into the game.
    What @SwiftPvP is trying to say is just remove PvP chat or at least put in more restrictions so that we don't scare off the new PvP'ers into Massive. Actually just scare off any new player from massive, since most people looking for a survival server aren't going to stay long when all they see is "OMG U SO B4D!!! GET REKT M8 FREAKING BADDIES YOUR MOOTHER IS FREAKING (insert bad word here) HAHAHA!!!!" In PvP chat all day due to them not knowing how to:
    A) Ignore People
    B) The command to leave channels
    C) Or just think we are a bunch of weeaboos that only know how to yell at each other (which is totally not true since 90% of massive isn't like that at all).

    So this idea isn't to rebuild the old pvpers or lure them back in. Its about helping out the newer players that just want to try PvP and don't have to worry about 5-10 people flaming the living day lights out of them which leads them to no longer PvP'ing which will lead to a dead community not so long down the road.
     
  11. JarlJade

    JarlJade Regalian Lesser Noble
    1. --==:: Sylvan: A Breeze Through the Leaves ::==--

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    It's really sad to think like this because it's less of a matter of how 'weak' or 'strong' a person is and it's more to do with simple respect to other people in the community. You wouldn't scream or insult some random stranger you hardly know in real life, so why do people think it makes it any better to do so behind a computer screen? While you're having fun and laughing at everyone else, they're miserable, and when confronted with realising your own actions, you simply excuse your rude words by hiding behind plot holes in the rules such as /ignore.
     
  12. LordSylveon

    LordSylveon The Desciple of Cecidit
    1. The Ceciditian Empire -[CE]

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    Because the internet is what it is. People get to do tons of stuff they don't get to in real life. Fighting monsters, building kingdoms, killing others, getting to vent all of your anger and frustrations from normal life at others. Is it better to respect people? Yes. That doesn't mean we should clamp down on people who use PvP chat as a medium to get rid of some of the anger in their life.

    Also, my post wasn't about strength or weakness. Its about taking the time in your life to examine your surroundings and solving problems yourself. A military course of action is to solve problems at the lowest level. In this case, it should lie with players to deal with flame on their own personal levels, by using the commands given to them. If that turns out to really be that much of an issue (Which I really do doubt. I've lived in Detroit, and been to Chicago and New York. People scream at each other all the time. Sorry, but grow a skin and move on. Yes I know this is blunt, and most people don't want to hear this, but its true.) then we move up to making the commands more known, so newer players are aware that they exist. Maybe even starting people 'logged out' of the PvP chat, so they don't start in it.

    If you view actually learning about how things work, and taking measures YOURSELF to solve problems before running to someone else to do it for you a matter of being strong or weak, I refer to one of my previous statements.


    Strength or weakness is no excuse for being lazy. Never has been, never will be.
     
  13. Jackmo_Jones

    Jackmo_Jones He's the Ripper, Jack the Ripper.

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    I think pvp chat needs stricter moderation. Seriously I don't understand why it is OK to call people things like "virgin pedophiles" or "failures at life.". What exactly does that have to do with pvp?

    The pvp community on this server has proven itself childish and despicable.
     
  14. TheSilverSpectre

    TheSilverSpectre No, I will not do that for a Klondike bar.

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    I know one thing, I pvp when I'm angry. It makes an excellent vent and the process of it is exhilarating. While I personally don't care if I die and someone yells at me "Noob" I don't give a flying Frisbee whether or not they do. But when it comes to someone who does take it seriously that is because of who they are, and we should always respect who someone is. It pisses me off when people flame for the sake of flame, or to anger someone else. It legitimately pisses me off, and that is something that does not happen very often.
     
  15. Brycea111

    Brycea111 Mithrilian Navy and Knight Of Mithril

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    I've been watching this all day, it has some REALLY GOOD dancing and above all, it has a life lesson in it.
     
  16. Skip_HD

    Skip_HD Refugee

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    While I agree with what happened to Vanilla was tragic, I think you are being a hypocrite right here Swift. We've been good friends for a while, but this video I will post will show your hypocrisy.

     
  17. Moonhawk147

    Moonhawk147 Refugee

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    This actually made me tear up. I don't have a strong argument or anything of the sort. But I wanna say this

    I feel like stabbing a flamer.
     
  18. Wolfrain

    Wolfrain Older than Mario...

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    This. If I were not as stubborn as I am, I would have given up trying to learn to PVP about 3 weeks ago. It's insanely difficult to learn, anyway with most of the tutorials on youtube being relevant to outdated mechanics, and a "community" full of people who's idea of a good time is to stomp on new players and insult them to the point that they don't want to even play anymore. To make it worse, under the current, arbitrarily enforced "rules" certain players are allowed to taunt people to the point that they blow up, and then the person who blows up after literally HOURS of taunting is punished with a mute or ban. Way to go staff. That's the smart way to manage a community. PVP chat was a bad idea to begin with.
     
  19. Wolfrain

    Wolfrain Older than Mario...

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    It's not hypocrisy to change your mind about something. The flame, and especially our own participation in it, is something we have been discussing for a while. By we, I mean our own faction and allies who PVP together.
     
  20. ZiHAMMER

    ZiHAMMER Violettee is a transgender

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  21. Tra_kad

    Tra_kad Massives biggest Adventurer and Conspiracy Maker

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    This is why I solely RP...
     
  22. Beetletoes

    Beetletoes Regalian Emperor

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    Same.
     
  23. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    Flaming is as integral to PVP as Elitism is to roleplay. They are simply products of one feeling greater than the other and manifestations of the internet acting as a veil of anonymity.

    It's a question whether permitting limited flame in the pvp chat funnels it away from every other chat, where despite staff attempts to contain it, would still occur when the staff are not present or anyway and result in challenging behavior of staff authority by those who are willing to push the boundaries of what is acceptable.

    My personal preference stands with permitting it in an opt-in environment so nobody else who doesn't want to participate with it has to be exposed to it. Let's not pretend the flaming will stop if the PVP chat shuts down and we crack down on it again. Some of the people reading and posting in this thread know very well that even if we take action they will continue this behavior because it's exciting or whatever. What remains of the issue is how staff determine and move ahead with limiting the negative behavior from affecting people who don't want to see it.

    It will be brought up in the next staff meeting.
     
  24. Genecide65

    Genecide65 Mich

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    I just don't understand... a year ago there was no talk about flame, the word flame was used for fire... what happened that caused flame to start in the first place?
     
  25. SwiftPvP

    SwiftPvP champion

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    Why don't you think that I could have changed? I realized that it was stupid to do so and stopped my way.

    Maybe you should too!

    "Jackmo go get your old man meds" "Jackmo's a pedophile"

    Fix yourself skip.
     
  26. Wolfrain

    Wolfrain Older than Mario...

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    Eloquently stated. I had not considered it from this perspective. I would, however, like to point out that it is increasingly difficult to opt out when you are targeted by flame and everyone just relays the message, or the ignored flamer just has others private message you. Those things happen quite a lot, as well. To be honest, I'm not sure what is the best way to handle it. I believe you are correct about it being inevitable. I don't know. Does anyone have another suggestion?
     
  27. LordSylveon

    LordSylveon The Desciple of Cecidit
    1. The Ceciditian Empire -[CE]

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    Making the commands to block people and that chat more well known and starting people not in Saltchat would probably help a lot. Beyond that maybe having a better coverage of chat moderators, but that's getting out of my area of understanding since I don't know what time zones everyone covers.
     
  28. Wolfrain

    Wolfrain Older than Mario...

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    Chat moderators. That could work. Possibly. It would really depend on the mods.
     
  29. Herecy

    Herecy Demon king & Founder of Wrath

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    it doesnt matter about the flame, yea cool you killed someone but you dont need to tell them theyre worthless . and if you flame you dont need to direct it at them in a SERVER WIDE chat
     
  30. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Flame is Lame,
    It's all the Same.
    Fighting is exciting,
    And has no slighting.

    Or somethin. I'm not good at short poems or rhyming. Meh. PvP will die if flame continues, and the PvPers can only blame themselves. Let it die and then let it revive itself with more decent examples of the PvP-playertype.
     
  31. VANBROWN

    VANBROWN Dauphin de Montfort.

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    That's how people are. People feel that they are better than others.
    I would say; that it's just a game...
     
  32. Satisarah

    Satisarah Regalian Noble

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    It still surprises me how people can disregard and behave so inconsiderately towards others and not even bother to think of how it affects the people involved. People can be so selfish, cruel and unempathetic once they get a chance to get away with it. How can they deal with themselves knowing they cause so much harm to others? What is so amusing and exciting about being a complete and utter jerk? I will probably never understand.
     
  33. Tra_kad

    Tra_kad Massives biggest Adventurer and Conspiracy Maker

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    I would put it in blunt terms but I'd probably get muted or something for swearing, soo... Blunt, polite terms...

    Because 85% of all humanity are jerks. Period. The end.
     
  34. krios41

    krios41 Privjet

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    isn't that a bit optimistic?
    or am i a pessimist?
     
  35. Tra_kad

    Tra_kad Massives biggest Adventurer and Conspiracy Maker

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    Both.
     
  36. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
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    If 85% of humans were jerks we'd still be hunting mammoth and trying to outrun the "scary thunder monsters". Most people are fairly kind folks- in person. But when you no longer have the whole 'help them and I help me' aspect that comes from being nice to the people near you, well, then humans are more selfish in nature. It's not so much us being jerks as it is our powerful mob mentality - They are not Us, therefor They do not matter. Roleplayers oppose PvPers not so much because PvPers are wrong or are jerks, but rather because they consider PvPers to be "Them" and therefor not as important. And vise-versa with PvPers, with the addition of aggression.
     
  37. SorryNari

    SorryNari Urlan Lover Supremium

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    Flaming will always be around and is inevitable.
     
  38. rng11

    rng11 Head Council of OU

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    I think that swifts example is a very sad but extreme example of the effects of flame. And I somewhat agree with a harder moderation on pvp chat. I moved to Sunkiss a few months ago and it was a great experience , new friends , pvp lessons , and a great community. But as Sunkiss and Yungcash are not going to be friends any time soon I have just accepted flame as a part of massive , but it wasn't always like that. When I was a newer player trying to learn pvp I would receive a large amount of flame from players like darshauwn and still do which has made me wanna get better at pvp. But not all players are like me. If I was someone else it could have made me quit massive, and sometimes I do get a little sad from what? People hiding behind a screen?

    So I agree with swift in a way... We need better moderation or stricter rules on pvp chat!
     
  39. Skip_HD

    Skip_HD Refugee

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    Ow, ples, my own comments hurt. If you get super offended over a video game then you need to re-evaluate your situation. And what's to say I didn't change. But what you said to me...


    [​IMG]
     
  40. Beetletoes

    Beetletoes Regalian Emperor

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    Wow... Isn't this a thread about stopping flame?
     

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