Why Do People Hate Regals?

Discussion in 'General' started by Mecharic, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Lotta players don't understand the concept of Inflation and Currency here. Let me enlighten you a little.

    Inflation - The decrease in value of a currency. Results in rising prices across the board, and often in rising incomes. It can be both good (higher income = more spending) or bad (high prices = less buying).

    Deflation - The increase in value of a currency. Results in lower prices across the board, and can result in large-scale job loss. It can be good (decreased prices = more buying) or bad (less jobs = less spending).

    Right now, MassiveCraft has a seriously deflated currency. Regals are worth a great deal. Alternately, items aren't worth the time it takes to craft them. This is due to the money sinks (faction taxes, Regalian Houses, /fix, and players who's shops sell but who never spend) in an economy where money sources are fairly limited (voting, darkrooming, some questing) and time consuming.

    I honestly want to know why players like @jes_ and staff like @Omnomivore want to further deflate the Regal. The result of such will be even lower prices and even less spending and overall economic activity. Why is it that you seek to do so?

    ~ A Very Confused Individual
     
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  2. MrSpideyPool

    MrSpideyPool the friendly asshole

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    i like regals
     
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  3. LeafMC

    LeafMC Probably Not a Real Psychic
    1. *•* FongCo™ - Does a Body Neutral *•*

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    Do you have any proposals for inflating (I think I'm using the right terminology) the currency once more?

    Do we need more ways to earn money? Or more item sinks, to increase the value of survival goods?
     
  4. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    First off, a Server Shop in Regalia that purchases armor, materials, weapons, even tools for regals. Maybe even a shop that ONLY accepts donation-gear, to get it back out of circulation. But there needs to be a Item Sink-Regal Faucet combo to get money into the economy and start spending up again. Hell, something like that may even get people to start using survival again because it'll finally be a profitable thing to do.

    Second, faction taxes should drop back to 1r per 10 chunks. Currently it's only causing harm, not good, for the server.
     
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  5. LeafMC

    LeafMC Probably Not a Real Psychic
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    Didn't Ninjabaver have a similar thing ages ago in SilverEdge? I remember making good money selling him my iron blocks.

    Getting people back into the factions world is obviously important though. More people playing survival minecraft means more people consuming items. The Survival/Roleplay divide is of course part of a bigger issue, on which I'm sure I've made my opinion known elsewhere.
     
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  6. Brycea111

    Brycea111 Mithrilian Navy and Knight Of Mithril
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    I don't think we need Regal sinks, we need item sinks. Like, I sit here for hours on end trying to sell an entire set of God armor for 200 regals and no one cares to buy them. And it's not at all that people don't have the money, because you can vote and get 170r, I suppose it's just over inflation of items to the point that most people don't need to buy things anymore.
     
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  7. Omnomivore

    Omnomivore ♔N'omiel M'triche ☕ Zziska Llessikt
    Staff Member Game3
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    @Mecharic

    I never said I want or support removing regals from entering the economy, but I do support changing how they enter it.

    I'm not in support of outright decreasing the regals from voting, which is why I am not decreasing them right now even though I am revamping the rewards currently.

    Job island is still in production so when that is released there will be another source of regals, hence I would like to decrease regals from voting at that time - even then it will depend on how much you can make at job island.

    Keep in mind I have not yet reviewed server statistics for regals entering/leaving the economy but that is on my list of things to do this week as well.
     
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  8. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Sorry, I guess I misinterpreted your comments on the PvP thread. My bad. I do think that the Job Island is *good* but it won't get people into survival - setting up an item sink, however, would do an excelent job of pulling materials out while pumping regals in. But yeah, all things must wait for the input-output to be reviewed. Is there a way to track items on the server? (like, number of diamond blocks & diamond pieces?) Something like that would be useful, since an economy has two halves - Product/Services & Currency.
     
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  9. HeartAched

    HeartAched ~Valerus King~

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    There are so many ways to make thousands of regals so easily, they're basically worthless. 170r a day is way too much, and people were complaining about 100r a day.. continuing to deflate the regal currency even more. I just hate the fact that everything is basically worthless now.
     
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  10. Aienn

    Aienn Lunatic
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    I think a big part of the issue is people not being in surival. If you do it right you'll naturally generate a flow of regals from killing mobs and selling ores. Plus everyone is donating to a single money sink, faction, rather than multiple, aka Regalian housing. Ores are always being used while lore items are forever. Everything you get from surival is essentially an item you transfer into something else to build which eventually gets restored. Everything is always recyled in survival. While things stay static in Regalia. Sure there are hoarders and vaults in survival but atleast once a month you see one go the way of disbanding. All the bulk stuff gets left behind and restored.
     
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  11. LeafMC

    LeafMC Probably Not a Real Psychic
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    Agreed completely Kaezir. Though now the question is, how do we get people back into survival?

    I'm primarily a role-player, though do like to build in survival from time to time. One of my biggest issues with the factions worlds is how detached they've become from Regalia and the server's lore. In the factions world, you'll fight creepers and endermen, be up against vampires with a specific set of abilities, and soon you'll be using unique magic invocations.

    The thing is, none of these are canon in the server's lore, and engaging with them feels like "cheating" in a way. You can't go to Regalia and talk about how you were accosted by creepers, or how you learned a new magic word, or how you discovered a portal to an ancient dwarven ruin, because none of those things exist in Regalia's "canon". Most of the things you'd want to do in the survival worlds can have no impact in Regalia, disincentivizing them for role-players, or at least for me.
     
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    #11 LeafMC, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  12. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Regals aren't worthless - items are worthless. Deflation is when a currency gains value in relation to items, which is what we currently see. The cure is to pump craptons of regals into the economy while draining craptons of supplies.
     
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    #12 Mecharic, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  13. Aienn

    Aienn Lunatic
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    This is a question Ive been asking myself long before I hit staff. And I believe part of the answer is faction canonization. Imagine as chance to take part in world changing events. That alone is beyond motivation for me. When I am building in survival, I feel like I am just making pretty things and not a part of anything. I feel like even with raiders it'd be worth it. But there would be so many strings attached. It'd be a huge step up from families, requiring so much more criteria. I have a huge thread detailing just about everything. Hopefully with MassiveMagic there will be motivation as well.
     
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  14. PeterIsMyName

    PeterIsMyName Dolkrin Harsk - PeterIsMyName

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    Honestly? Know what would fix Massive's survival? Factions?
    Hate on me, but a total reset on world's. Money would stay though. That's what would fix it
     
  15. FireFan96

    FireFan96 Lieutenant General of the Kaisermark
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    So, anecdote time.

    I played on a server that had the exact same issue, except replace factions with towny (but tbf, basically the same thing here)
    We were losing players, and the map was old, like really old. And as such, resources were as well. I made the suggestion that we reset the map, since comparing numbers, we probably weren't going to change that much.

    ...my how I was wrong. After the reset, everyone flipped their shit, except maybe a few people who were excited. all the old players essentially quit, or left withing a few months.

    resetting a map is a very bad idea here. If it was a regular HCF server, then it's just part of the game. But Massive has massiverestore and build guidelines, not grief and beloved cobble boxes with endless walls.
     
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  16. Gabauchi

    Gabauchi Goblin Man
    1. Hyrune

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    the idea is to create a system that is self-sustaining. wiping the world is only a temporary solution. eventually the same problem will happen again if things aren't changed.
     
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  17. CptSilvyrall

    CptSilvyrall Iritu U'til
    1. /(._.(\Where the weird people are\(._.)/

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    Well, some people will never fully return to survival. Magic would be a temporary solution, because of what you have said. Magic is in no way 'cannon' and the only thing I can hope will be cannon is a way I can customize my spells. But some people, are only here for the roleplay. They can't be convinced fully, they may use MassiveMagic from time to time when darkrooming for a source of regals but some just live on roleplay because the lore is just too great.
     
  18. Typhenon

    Typhenon Professional Potion Bouncer
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    Honestly I hope that staff can find a way to implement this, it's a great idea and would definitely help deal with the problem of people never leaving Regalia
     
  19. Typhenon

    Typhenon Professional Potion Bouncer
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    Obviously this would never happen but I would be down for it to happen
     
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  20. cpt_manta_ray

    cpt_manta_ray Local Gnome Enthusiast

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    neat, this seems logical
     
  21. cpt_manta_ray

    cpt_manta_ray Local Gnome Enthusiast

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    possibly we could do something like the dulofall campaign like this. Factions could submit their faction and several possible locations/lore characteristics about their fac and submit them like the dulofall campaign. Then, once a month, a lore staff could write a factions report of a few different settlements throughout the world being sure to balance each one, not giving each fac too much credit while still giving them some accounts for progress each faction made.

    I actually really like this Idea, thanks for the inspiration.
     
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  22. cpt_manta_ray

    cpt_manta_ray Local Gnome Enthusiast

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    I feel so confident I am going to tag @MonMarty
     
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  23. Tiber_

    Tiber_ Man of the People
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    [mon] [mon] [mon]
     
  24. Mechrotic

    Mechrotic A profound conman, businessman, and gentleman.

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    Wasn't the reason for the switch from silver to regals that silver was super deflated as well?
     
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  25. Beetletoes

    Beetletoes ok neat
    1. Jin-Tao Syndicate

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    We should change currency again! Yeah! Let's call it.... MassiveBucks!
     
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  26. trapzor

    trapzor Refugee
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    I think one issue is that to drive more players to the server, you want people voting for the server. To get people to vote for the server, you want regals to be fairly valuable relative to items, because ultimately people want regals for the purpose of buying items, or for renting houses, paying taxes, etc. So if regals are scarce, people will have more incentive to vote, which is beneficial.

    I don't think we're currently in a situation where people value regals highly enough to vote regularly. I'm basing that on the average wealth of active players from the /money analyze command. The average wealth of a player is around 2500 r, and many factions have only a few thousand regals in the bank. If a faction with 10 members voted at all sites each day for a week, they'd raise over 10k regals in a week (minus taxes) and I just don't see those kinds of balances in faction banks as I randomly sample the dynmap. Both of those things lead me to believe that the average player isn't voting regularly, and inflation might lead to even less voting as players would have more regals at their disposal.

    If you managed to directly devalue items somehow it might be a different story - you could create items sinks for example but I don't know what the reward would be other than regals, and this could lead to crazy inflation and less voting as people turn to the item sinks as a source of income rather than voting.

    So in other words, what you might see if you tried to deflate the currency by making the voting rewards higher or the faction taxes lower or if you introduced item sinks is just less voting rather than (or at least in addition to) an actual change in the value of a regal.
     
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    #26 trapzor, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  27. ChairThief

    ChairThief Sand Traveler

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    Speaking from experience: this never works. All a total reset does is kill what little population a server may have- or at the least, severely cripple it. In a lot of cases, I've seen people clamour for a reset, or a server owner talk it up as if it's going to make everything better.. It never does. And people never learn.

    One of the only multiplayer servers I've consistently played on basically died this way. The first reset decimated the population, and even though my friend and I picked up the pieces and continued to play there with a some others for a few years, just as we started to re-establish a community, the owner decided it would be a good idea to try and "revive" the server by inviting people back and performing another reset. This was, of course, completely against the wishes of the current community, who were, by far, more dedicated to the server than the "veterans" who were lukewarm at best.. If not more interested in a revert to the "original" server (which simply couldn't exist anymore because you can't recreate past experiences when the people who helped create those experiences have also changed).

    Anyhow, the server owner went through with it. And you know what happened? The process got borked up, months' worth of progress got lost and the server's been offline ever since, with absolutely no contact from the owner.. Who has a tendency to disappear for years at a time with no warning.

    Resets are rarely, if ever, the right answer.

    -Edit- I've also seen a lot of unnecessary trouble arise from too much focus on the economy. There's only so much you can do about that, and doing too much can cause more damage than doing nothing. It cannot be, nor does it need to be totally balanced. That's impossible irl, and it's impossible in a game. You're always going to have individuals who hoard dragon's lairs' worth of currency, regardless of whether or not they are even going to use it, and you're always going to have individuals determined to stay penniless. People will do what they do, and you just can't account for every variable of human action.
     
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    #27 ChairThief, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  28. Koajack

    Koajack Shapeshifting Conspiracy Theorist
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    This doesn't give you near enough money. -deep breath- baaaack in my day, mobs gave you at least 1r each
    this was about the only good thing about the old days imo
     
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  29. HeartAched

    HeartAched ~Valerus King~

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    EVERYTHING WAS GOOD ABOUT THE OLD DAYS TF YOU MEAAAAAAAAAN
    im totally kidding
     
  30. Koajack

    Koajack Shapeshifting Conspiracy Theorist
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    premiums got 150 regals a day free. non premiums dropped armor and had no bp or wb. i believe premiums had an auto health boost as well. regals were near impossible to get without being good at pvp, the most i ever had in my existence those days was like 800r combined throughout my entire four months of playing. i thought everything outside of RP itself was pretty crappy.
     
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  31. HeartAched

    HeartAched ~Valerus King~

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    I've been premium almost consistently for the 4 years 4 months I've played on the server, I'm almost 100% sure premiums never got 150r for nothing..
     
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  32. Koajack

    Koajack Shapeshifting Conspiracy Theorist
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    i seem to remember them getting 150 a day as an allowance but maybe i'm wrong.
     
  33. HeartAched

    HeartAched ~Valerus King~

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    Definitely wrong lol.
     
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  34. HeartAched

    HeartAched ~Valerus King~

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    Plus, those were premium benefits. If you wanted them, you had to donate to the server. It isn't like that anymore because of the EULA which makes buying premium in this current moment of time useless besides supporting the server.
     
    #34 HeartAched, Feb 18, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  35. aprader1

    aprader1 Insert amazing title here

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    Well actually during that time we used silver and copper... Iv been here for 4 1/2 years so I remember a lot.
     
  36. togal300

    togal300 WAAAGH!
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  37. Koajack

    Koajack Shapeshifting Conspiracy Theorist
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    That's my forums join. /seen me
     
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  38. Sperans

    Sperans Sunkiss SweetHeart
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    I am highly against such a proposition. Doing a complete reset would not only destroy the server, but be highly unnecessary. The server has massiverestore. The wilds of all maps are restored at set times, so doing a reset would be pointless. Besides, if there was a reset, valuable pieces of this server's history would be erased. Cities, towns, factions that had been around since the beginning of the server will perish for nothing. There will be no sacrifice because there's nothing to gain but a loss.
     
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  39. Thorjl

    Thorjl High Jarl of NorthWatch

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    I'd like to be able to sell my junk loot to an npc for like 1r per 5 stacks. Shops are always full.

    Just like any rpg I want to hoard the trash drops and dump them on vendors for extra cashflow.

    Lol.
     

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