Archived Vampires...its Too Easy..

TechPac · Apr 21, 2013

I know plans for making Vampirism are already being discussed, and i know wont be implemented until cay is done with sharding, so these are just some suggestions for vampirism.
1.Vampires can only infect others after a set amount of time, meaning you can only infect a human if you have been a vampire for a set amount of irl days. Or even a percentage that makes it so the longer you have been a vampire, the better the chance to infect someone.
2.Alters require more ingredients...ALOT more. Perhaps even harder to obtain items.
3.The time that it takes to become a vampire is longer, perhaps similar to the race change, it takes 3 irl days instead of 3 mc days.
4.Bloodlust, If bloodlust is to stay it could to be similar to my infect suggestion. You can only use bloodlust if you have been a vampire long enough OR the amount of blood it uses lessens the longer you have been a vampire. This would make older vampires more powerful then younger ones which kinda goes with basic vampire lore.

ChrisVenom · Apr 21, 2013

2 words ... you mad?!?!?!?!
Well depends how long your talking about here. I've been a vampire for like ... 3 weeks?[DOUBLEPOST=1366531405,1366531370][/DOUBLEPOST]Yeah 3 weeks! Like 3 irl days/mc days! It's a pattern (party)

Boom77777 · Apr 21, 2013

I agree with Tech. People on the server who don't roleplay as vamps shouldn't be them unless its only temp. Its too easy to become one. I hope after the sharding Cay makes the plugin a bit harder. I remember once I was one of those noobs asking to be turned as soon as i heard it had that plugin.

ozgho · Apr 21, 2013

Boom77777 said:
I agree with Tech. People on the server who don't roleplay as vamps shouldn't be them unless its only temp. Its too easy to become one. I hope after the sharding Cay makes the plugin a bit harder. I remember once I was one of those noobs asking to be turned as soon as i heard it had that plugin.

I think that this would severely limit the freedom of the player. While it is true that it's sad that people feel they have to be vampires for pvp battles, I think that this can be applied to your RP aspect. More pvp vampires = more power-hungry neckbiters to stake in the heart.

Commanderkull · Apr 21, 2013

I think you shouldn't complain about vampires, they are fine the way they are.

mulligan3000 · Apr 21, 2013

Commanderkull said:
I think you shouldn't complain about vampires, they are fine the way they are.

I think you should think about it from the RPer's perspective. A lot of the vampires are vampires for the abilities, instead of RP which is what the server is about. Nerfing some the abilities means the guys there for the features stop, and the actual RPers stay.

Dworvin · Apr 21, 2013

TechPac said:
4.Bloodlust, If bloodlust is to stay it could to be similar to my infect suggestion. You can only use bloodlust if you have been a vampire long enough OR the amount of blood it uses lessens the longer you have been a vampire. This would make older vampires more powerful then younger ones which kinda goes with basic vampire lore.

I rely like this idea of making vamps weaker and age.
younger players use blood lust allot.
how bout have it
that the younger vampires can also blood lust but it does not last as long and
blood lusting prevents aging.
like if you blood lusted that day the hours spent on massive that day do not count as an aging day.
This would make it hard for noobs to become elder vampires.

LumosJared · Apr 21, 2013

I like this. Fact is, I'm sick of vampires with horrible RP skills bloodlusting about Regalia.

Good news is, (I think) after sharding there will be a plug-in that will allow the undead bastards to be killed in Regalia, in certain circumstances.

favoured · Apr 21, 2013

I believe there are several other suggestions for this already.

Chronicler_372 · Apr 21, 2013

Jared4242 said:
I like this. Fact is, I'm sick of vampires with horrible RP skills bloodlusting about Regalia.

Good news is, (I think) after sharding there will be a plug-in that will allow the undead bastards to be killed in Regalia, in certain circumstances.

That is a brilliant idea, but dang, I'm just a vampire whom roams there with a fishing rod, fishing for leather booties and crabs. *Fishing* "TASTE MAH RAIP ROD, VAMPY" me: "AAAAUGH!!" ._.
I think Purebloods should also have power different from thinbloods, like purebloods burn faster, but thinbloods have less bloodlust time. And yes, the Vampires should be lessened, because I've noticed a lot of the 'necromancers' are also Vampires, and so many people will have the lore of 'last vampire' so on. Vampire is powerful enough, only weakness is holy water, sun, and wooden stakes. Only people who are really gonna be a rp for the Vampire should be there, as the pvp side will be weakened, like Vampires if they eat food, it gives hunger effect (Since Vampires have no taste, everything is bland and texture of it doesn't help their appetite). Plus, there are really just too few Yanars, Tigrans, Vespids, Nagas, etc. Make it so you can only get infected by combat, as not everyone in 'Real life' would like a stranger to bite their necks... Only vamps can offer to each other, or only to people who are on the way to being infected by combat.
Yes, too long a laundry list to add for poor Cayorian and such to check and all of you, but if you take all this into thought (And some mythological outlooks) it should be a legit effect.[DOUBLEPOST=1366587713,1366587554][/DOUBLEPOST]

Chronicler_372 said:
That is a brilliant idea, but dang, I'm just a vampire whom roams there with a fishing rod, fishing for leather booties and crabs. *Fishing* "TASTE MAH RAIP ROD, VAMPY" me: "AAAAUGH!!" ._.
I think Purebloods should also have power different from thinbloods, like purebloods burn faster, but thinbloods have less bloodlust time. And yes, the Vampires should be lessened, because I've noticed a lot of the 'necromancers' are also Vampires, and so many people will have the lore of 'last vampire' so on. Vampire is powerful enough, only weakness is holy water, sun, and wooden stakes. Only people who are really gonna be a rp for the Vampire should be there, as the pvp side will be weakened, like Vampires if they eat food, it gives hunger effect (Since Vampires have no taste, everything is bland and texture of it doesn't help their appetite). Plus, there are really just too few Yanars, Tigrans, Vespids, Nagas, etc. Make it so you can only get infected by combat, as not everyone in 'Real life' would like a stranger to bite their necks... Only vamps can offer to each other, or only to people who are on the way to being infected by combat.
Yes, too long a laundry list to add for poor Cayorian and such to check and all of you, but if you take all this into thought (And some mythological outlooks) it should be a legit effect.

I used 'And' and commas an awful lot in this...

Sarge_Peppers · Apr 21, 2013

Everyone complains about vamps. They are not to hard to kill. Grab holy pots and a stake and they will be dead in an instant

TechPac · Apr 21, 2013

favoured said:
I believe there are several other suggestions for this already.

There are, and ive read them all. None of these points or ideas for nerfing though were ever suggested to my knowledge.

Mecharic · Apr 21, 2013

Gonna be honest, I think that all IG factors into race should be removed... then races will be SOLELY role play. So long as any race (vampirism included) has IG perks, people will become that race for the perks. Only hardcore RPers choose a race for the purpose of role play. For example: Last I checked, Alamut wasn't an underground vampire lair, a dwarven citidel, or an orcish settlement. But I would bet my best armor that more then half of their faction are vampires, dwarves, or orcs for the IG perks the three races get in close combat (bloodlust, axe bonus, sword bonus respectively).

Commanderkull · Apr 21, 2013

Y U NO LEAVE VAMPIRE ALONE?
Vampires die faster then almost any race. Just because they can bloodlust doesnt mean a thing. A wood sword and some good armor and your set.

TechPac · Apr 21, 2013

Mecharic said:
Gonna be honest, I think that all IG factors into race should be removed... then races will be SOLELY role play. So long as any race (vampirism included) has IG perks, people will become that race for the perks. Only hardcore RPers choose a race for the purpose of role play. For example: Last I checked, Alamut wasn't an underground vampire lair, a dwarven citidel, or an orcish settlement. But I would bet my best armor that more then half of their faction are vampires, dwarves, or orcs for the IG perks the three races get in close combat (bloodlust, axe bonus, sword bonus respectively).

I would agree with this if i believed in RP combat, such as -so and so throws a fireball- but i dont, i believe in incorporating PvP into RP with actualy powers and abilities. But i see your point, perhaps admin should force a punishment for those who do not RP their race..however, that would go against one of their biggest things they are against, forcing RP upon someone. So i do not belive something like that can be helped.

Camadam · Apr 21, 2013

I believe vampires will be nerfed soon. I heard they will no longer be able to punch people in combat and regain hunger levels. This would keep vampires from bloodlusting FOREVER in aqua or in pvp in general. I like your ideas though TechPac.

TechPac · Apr 21, 2013

Commanderkull said:
Y U NO LEAVE VAMPIRE ALONE?
Vampires die faster then almost any race. Just because they can bloodlust doesnt mean a thing. A wood sword and some good armor and your set.

I always found that funny..you stake a vampire in the heart and they die fast, but if you stake a human in the heart...does what a half heart damage? xD lol
That also leads me to think actually being able to stake a vampire should be based more on percentage. Like the fire touch agni had, how it was only a CHANCE it could happen. Vampires are rather weak to wood, it seems unbalanced. And i know people are gonna bring the whole Mag vs Solaris thing into this..but think about it, thats NOT the majority of the players on the server, most vampires cannot fight that well. And from the videos and livescreens, using wood objects makes little difference to those players anyways. :/ so why not give the ones who do it for the RP a fighting chance?[DOUBLEPOST=1366598493,1366596659][/DOUBLEPOST]

Camadam said:
I believe vampires will be nerfed soon. I heard they will no longer be able to punch people in combat and regain hunger levels. This would keep vampires from bloodlusting FOREVER in aqua or in pvp in general. I like your ideas though TechPac.

Actually ive heard quite the opposite, due to trying to make vampirism harder to deal with, that they were wanting it to where you could ONLY obtain blood this way, so you cant just gain it from an animal and you were forced to attack people like a vampire would.

ozgho · Apr 21, 2013

TechPac said:
Actually ive heard quite the opposite, due to trying to make vampirism harder to deal with, that they were wanting it to where you could ONLY obtain blood this way, so you cant just gain it from an animal and you were forced to attack people like a vampire would.

That would ruin many RP chances.
*vampire is hungry*
*vampire kills neighboring faction's livestock*
*farmer is distraught*
*farmer hires vampire hunters*
*hunters kill vampire that they tracked down in the woods*
*rinse, repeat*

CamilleBela. · Apr 22, 2013

maybe we should add werewolves..
this link has the mod and its frequently updated too
http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/werewolf/
making there 2 options for humans..making them more diverse and unique
and i like the idea of older vamps being more powerful...maybe the more PLAYERS u've killed u get mor max hunger? or maybe it increases ur bloodlust damage...maybe age and 'experiece" (< people killing) can both affect vampirism
and since we're talking about this...maybe add water/lava vision for maiar and agni?
and i think elves need to be associated with nature more...maybe giv them the ability to scale/climb trees quickly?

hansington · Apr 22, 2013

CamilleBela. said:
maybe we should add werewolves..
this link has the mod and its frequently updated too
http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/werewolf/
making there 2 options for humans..making them more diverse and unique
and i like the idea of older vamps being more powerful...maybe the more PLAYERS u've killed u get mor max hunger? or maybe it increases ur bloodlust damage...maybe age and 'experiece" (< people killing) can both affect vampirism
and since we're talking about this...maybe add water/lava vision for maiar and agni?
and i think elves need to be associated with nature more...maybe giv them the ability to scale/climb trees quickly?

I really like the idea of adding werewolves. It would, as said, as diversity. The only thing i don't entirly like about the plugin was the whole bounty thing....

TechPac · Apr 22, 2013

CamilleBela. said:
maybe we should add werewolves..
this link has the mod and its frequently updated too
http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/werewolf/
making there 2 options for humans..making them more diverse and unique
and i like the idea of older vamps being more powerful...maybe the more PLAYERS u've killed u get mor max hunger? or maybe it increases ur bloodlust damage...maybe age and 'experiece" (< people killing) can both affect vampirism
and since we're talking about this...maybe add water/lava vision for maiar and agni?
and i think elves need to be associated with nature more...maybe giv them the ability to scale/climb trees quickly?

Admins say that they have wanted to add werewolves for the longest time, the problem is, there is no pluggin steady enough.[DOUBLEPOST=1366607884,1366607320][/DOUBLEPOST]

Ozgho said:
That would ruin many RP chances.
*vampire is hungry*
*vampire kills neighboring faction's livestock*
*farmer is distraught*
*farmer hires vampire hunters*
*hunters kill vampire that they tracked down in the woods*
*rinse, repeat*

It was more on the lines of Marty saying thats how he would prefer it, not say that its actually going to be the case.

ozgho · Apr 22, 2013

It's rarely the case. That's why the times it /is/ the case are great and rewarding.

Austinrules13 · Apr 23, 2013

Vampires are definitely not fine the way they are. If they're meant for a rp dark disease, then why do everyone turn into one for PvP? For example in this Mag-Solaris war, everyone are vamps. You would not survive 3 seconds if you weren't a vamp in this war. Which is why, EVERYONE are vampires on both sides. The main issue I see are these super laggy bloodlust fights and the victor is whoever has better fps or less lag. And whoever can get their hits to register somehow. Killing one vamp with a wooden sword might be easy. But killing 14 at the same time? Harder than it looks, especially fighting with players with the same PvP skills as yourself, in my case, everyone on mctop who still have higher skills. And this 10 bone trick everyone is using to gain hunger is op as well. Just carry stacks of bones and spawn a dog/kill it to regain hunger. In Rp perspective, its not getting anywhere, people act like its a race, PvP perspective, its laggy and annoying.

Mecharic · Apr 23, 2013

Again, the only reason anyone would become a race as they are now is for the pvp abilities...

Golemlord · Apr 23, 2013

Mecharic said:
Again, the only reason anyone would become a race as they are now is for the pvp abilities...

What some people do is this. (I know Gwen at least does this, and I used to.)

Everyone knows Gwen is good with a bow, right? But Gwen is a human, and humans aren't normally as good with bows as elves are, according to lore/ingame abilties. So in-game, she is an elf, but she roleplays as a human. She has a human skin, and nothing would suggest that she is an elf, save for the /race show command.

I used to do this when I roleplayed as a human along time ago, but he was incredibly big and muscular, and rather brutish, so I used the race undead simply to show the aspect of being able to take a few blows, and being pretty resilient.

Now I'm a Yanar, and since I roleplay as a healer/non-combatant, the ability works for me.

IMO it is ok to pick a race for PvP abilities, so long as you actually roleplay what you are.

ozgho · Apr 23, 2013

Austinrules13 said:
Vampires are definitely not fine the way they are. If they're meant for a rp dark disease, then why do everyone turn into one for PvP? For example in this Mag-Solaris war, everyone are vamps. You would not survive 3 seconds if you weren't a vamp in this war. Which is why, EVERYONE are vampires on both sides. The main issue I see are these super laggy bloodlust fights and the victor is whoever has better fps or less lag. And whoever can get their hits to register somehow. Killing one vamp with a wooden sword might be easy. But killing 14 at the same time? Harder than it looks, especially fighting with players with the same PvP skills as yourself, in my case, everyone on mctop who still have higher skills. And this 10 bone trick everyone is using to gain hunger is op as well. Just carry stacks of bones and spawn a dog/kill it to regain hunger. In Rp perspective, its not getting anywhere, people act like its a race, PvP perspective, its laggy and annoying.

I honestly think that "mages" with splash potions can help turn the tide in these terribad premvamp shitraids. (that's right, I just described something by using three words that are pieced together from other words.) I know I raised this before, but a company of archers can also be a good help. And I don't mean just a single guy trying to take pot shots at the enemy, I mean a *company* of archers filling every available space with wizzing death. People need to organize their classes more.

TechPac · Apr 23, 2013

Austinrules13 said:
Vampires are definitely not fine the way they are. If they're meant for a rp dark disease, then why do everyone turn into one for PvP? For example in this Mag-Solaris war, everyone are vamps. You would not survive 3 seconds if you weren't a vamp in this war. Which is why, EVERYONE are vampires on both sides. The main issue I see are these super laggy bloodlust fights and the victor is whoever has better fps or less lag. And whoever can get their hits to register somehow. Killing one vamp with a wooden sword might be easy. But killing 14 at the same time? Harder than it looks, especially fighting with players with the same PvP skills as yourself, in my case, everyone on mctop who still have higher skills. And this 10 bone trick everyone is using to gain hunger is op as well. Just carry stacks of bones and spawn a dog/kill it to regain hunger. In Rp perspective, its not getting anywhere, people act like its a race, PvP perspective, its laggy and annoying.

I dont think your argument should be based off of lag until sharding is complete, who knows that may fix the entire pvp issues with vampires entirely.

Austinrules13 · Apr 23, 2013

Its still very easy to kill nonvamps as a vampire. Just keep bloodlusting around the opponent in a circle then keep hitting them, and thats how it usually is at aqua with minimal lag. Lag doesn't make a difference other then hitting other vampires. Bloodlust is intended to be a vampire perk that is supposed to run out eventually. But its basically unlimited with this 10 bone trick. And when you manage to hit someone while bloodlusting, then a lot of hunger comes back. The only thing splash potions do, is slow the vampire down, and you have still have to be a vampire to catch up to them. In all of these raids, its almost required to wear god armor, so you can't get better equipment than the vampire. So if i'm fighting a nonvamp with the same equipment, its much easier to kill the nonvamp. Bloodlust is rather unfair because you can run away easily, thus, your kill running away when its health is down. You rarely see people dying in these raids i'm in, because its bloodlust, god armor, and god apples. The biggest thing is bloodlust. These are just my observations after fighting a bunch vampires as a vampire, I just think its rather annoying, no one actually likes to fight as a vampire, but they're forced to if they want to survive longer than 5 seconds. But I'd be fine if a nerf was postponed after sharding to see how PvP plays without lag.

Lord_ArchAngel · Apr 23, 2013

Personally, I find it that the vampire abilities adds ZERO things to role-play. It is all just for PvP, take the Solaris-Mag war everyone is a vampire. Everyone in the war is using the vampires for PvP advantage, yes the server is PvP/RP but this is somewhat over the line. I've seen how the plugin is affecting warfare on the server. Its just people bloodlusting around with nearly same skills as each other spam clicking. My suggestion for this is:

-Remove the Vampire Plugin
-Add in the race plugin something saying you're a vampire
-The race vampire has 1 advantage/disadvantage which are Advantage: Jump boost or speed 1 affect ,disadvantage: burn in the day light

Overlordqwerty · Apr 23, 2013

Lord_ArchAngel said:
Personally, I find it that the vampire abilities adds ZERO things to role-play. It is all just for PvP, take the Solaris-Mag war everyone is a vampire. Everyone in the war is using the vampires for PvP advantage, yes the server is PvP/RP but this is somewhat over the line. I've seen how the plugin is affecting warfare on the server. Its just people bloodlusting around with nearly same skills as each other spam clicking. My suggestion for this is:

-Remove the Vampire Plugin
-Add in the race plugin something saying you're a vampire
-The race vampire has 1 advantage/disadvantage which are Advantage: Jump boost or speed 1 affect ,disadvantage: burn in the day light

So... just make vampires like a type 2 race?

I don't see how they will stop more people from becoming vampires.

As for what I think should be done about it. Well, nothing really. I, like several other people who have already responded, believe we should wait until after shading before anything is done about vampires. The decrease in lag may make it possible to hit them more so they will be less OP.

TechPac · Apr 24, 2013

Once again this is more directed at RPr's NOT the Mag/Solar war, and if my ideas were implemented, then people wouldnt be able to access the PvP benefits as easily, they would have to wait, and if someone needs to fight in a war NOW, then they would be forced to wait as a creature who dies incredibly easy due to having no bloodlust yet/a short lasting one.

Strider6106 · Apr 28, 2013

You have to remember vampires also come with disadvantages that aim to balance out the abilities of a vampire. You can't just remove the advantages and leave the disadvantages. Perhaps their advantage shouldn't be in the pvp area but in the practical area for rp, but that would turn a lot of people away from it and make it harder to be a vampire because vampires are often hunted and need a pvp advantage to defend(from an rp perspective). But massivecraft has accurately recreated a vampire in-game, by legend/tale vampires do have combat advantages; can move fast, jump high, super strength(120% damage), so their boodlust ability is understandable and it does come at a cost and only lasts for a short period of time.
It really depends on what the server majority wants vampires to be though, and making it harder to become a vampire is a great idea in my eyes, adds a new rp challange, trying to become a vampire. Perhaps Instances that reward you with one item required to become a vampire (an item only obtainable by the Instance). Millions of ideas or ways becoming a vampire could be made harder!

malachi · Apr 28, 2013

I think that vampires are fine to a certain extent the time thing is a great idea as a vamp I enjoy rping And its bs to see players beg to be vamps at spawn and then they just pvp it ticks me off if u don't want to use your race to rp don't become that race just my view on it

EyebrowsJ · Apr 28, 2013

Lord_ArchAngel said:
Personally, I find it that the vampire abilities adds ZERO things to role-play. It is all just for PvP, take the Solaris-Mag war everyone is a vampire. Everyone in the war is using the vampires for PvP advantage, yes the server is PvP/RP but this is somewhat over the line. I've seen how the plugin is affecting warfare on the server. Its just people bloodlusting around with nearly same skills as each other spam clicking. My suggestion for this is:

-Remove the Vampire Plugin
-Add in the race plugin something saying you're a vampire
-The race vampire has 1 advantage/disadvantage which are Advantage: Jump boost or speed 1 affect ,disadvantage: burn in the day light

I'm one of the few who roleplay as a vampire using vampire abilities. My character is a good tree climber,so I use the double jump. The hunger is helpful, and sometimes there are hard to reach places. I don't use bloodlust all that often.

XxXYaJrAbXxX · May 5, 2013

To be fair I think they should be nerfed more than this as even some members of Alamut find it hard to kill vampires for example McMuffin55, if there was 5 of us including Alamut the fight against McMuffin55 could last a good 1 hour and 30 minutes aswell as been hit by 14 other vampires with out McMuffin55 dying.

Archived Vampires...its Too Easy..

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