The New Warfare Policy

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LumosJared

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Let me get this out of the way right now. If you intend to comment on this thread, your thoughts should be clearly and moreover calmly explained. If you're here to purely complain and flame, don't bother. If you insist on posting, you should put forth your solution to this, thoroughly explained.

-ahem- Anyway.

If you've checked the home page for Massive, you'll know the rules for warfare have changed slightly. I'll let you read for yourself , but it seems to me the staff are now more involved in what they see as "over doing it warfare" or, "harassment". In short, if a faction is "having a negative influence on the server" the staff have the right to intervene, punish, and FORCE the waring factions to be truced, or come to a common agreement.

Now I warn you, I am now going to display my personal opinion.

I don't like this. The idea that a group of bandits can't go wild in attacking factions (even, "peaceful" ones) is worrying. For all there faults, Insidious displayed a common threat to the server at large, attacking factions for no reason other then war and spoils. They attacked everyone, both peaceful and otherwise repeatedly. Under these rules, Insidious could be forced to stop having wars, even punished for being a bandit.

It should not be against the rules to be a violent, trash talking bandit. If you're worried it "ruins your experience" don't go complaining to the mods: either kick there ass yourself or get someone else to. Just like any town in a medieval fantasy setting. I understand the game is not supposed to be a perfect representation of a medieval fantasy setting, but I feel the mods are controlling our actions a tad too much on this issue. Of course it's not fair when a faction repeatedly raids a far weaker one. You want that fixed? Form an alliance (-cough le alliance cough-) to stop factions like that. Don't get mod intervention, let the players end the problem.

So to conclude, I (as a player) would prefer these rules.

  • A faction has the right to raid another faction with no foreseeable end.
  • The faction getting raided must make there own solution to the problem, whether it be fighting back, or getting other factions to force the raiding faction to stop.
  • Trash talking should be allowed, but over-use of language (dropping the f bomb repeatedly) would be met with a warning and a punishment if the said warning is ignored.

    Again, this is my opinion. I know the team do everything they can to help the server (and I thank them dearly for it) , but I feel they are getting too involved on this particular issue.​
 
I agree. It's ludicrous, and I think the staff should converse with the actual massivecraft community when making these decisions, rather than just themselves.[DOUBLEPOST=1369235228,1369235100][/DOUBLEPOST]Actually, fuck everything I just said. Medieval roleplay isn't the same for everyone. Players should be able to choose whether or not they want to subject themselves to raids. The "temporary solution" isn't to my liking, that's for sure, but I think Cayorion's end to the problem will solve it in a way suitable for everyone.
 
With the amount of negativity, personal vendetta's, overspilling arguments, people getting emotionally distraught in real life, and other trolling behavior, we decided that something needed to be done. For one the server reputation suffers under it as the policy favors power gamers over role players, and for second it always causes guilt with staff members when they have to tell a player to "suck it up" or "deal with it and pay up" when they make a plead to end it. It is not fun for staff members to have to disappoint and treat players this way.

I personally have always maintained that players should be able to settle their problems themselves on the server, and work together to improve the server in general, but evidence points out that this is simply not the case, be it for self interest or powergaming mechanics.

Keep in mind this policy is temporary as a tech solution will eventually be made in the coming month to supplement a shortcoming in Factions.
 
Will moderators intervene when one faction is obviously winning and the other refuses to surrender?
 
I don't like this. The idea that a group of bandits can't go wild in attacking factions (even, "peaceful" ones) is worrying. For all there faults, Insidious displayed a common threat to the server at large, attacking factions for no reason other then war and spoils. They attacked everyone, both peaceful and otherwise repeatedly. Under these rules, Insidious could be forced to stop having wars, even punished for being a bandit.

We won't stop bandits from doing their roleplay, the intervention is about the outer edge situations. Even with the programming solution, we will evaluate the situation properly and find a solution that everyone can keep on with their roleplay (bandits doing their thing ect.).
In the end we need to protect the real victims, those players who are nearly quitting the server because they see no end or solution to their problem. We are not talking about getting raided a day or two, we are talking about the real bleeding edge of the community (those too week/poor/stubborn to surrender or come to a good solution).

It should not be against the rules to be a violent, trash talking bandit. If you're worried it "ruins your experience" don't go complaining to the mods: either kick there ass yourself or get someone else to. Just like any town in a medieval fantasy setting. I understand the game is not supposed to be a perfect representation of a medieval fantasy setting, but I feel the mods are controlling our actions a tad too much on this issue. Of course it's not fair when a faction repeatedly raids a far weaker one. You want that fixed? Form an alliance (-cough le alliance cough-) to stop factions like that. Don't get mod intervention, let the players end the problem.

Sometimes, this doesn't suffice. If both sides just kick each others asses (but they actually don't like to do so) because they are to stubborn to finish the war (too much honor and pride), there must be a way to go about this problem.

As I mentioned before, It's not about the broad mass which is affected by this situation, it will be an uncommon practice.

Afterall, you can(and you are supposed to) go the normal way with warfar and making alliances. It is about protecting the weak and not to stop someone that likes to raid or act as a bandit.
This is a way to cut off the edge situation that happens the more and more nowadays...[DOUBLEPOST=1369236564,1369236479][/DOUBLEPOST]
Will moderators intervene when one faction is obviously winning and the other refuses to surrender?
Refusing a surrender will not simply be accepted as a reason for calling us. Surrender must be taken seriously afterall. Read my above post, it should cover it pretty much.
 
We won't stop bandits from doing their roleplay, the intervention is about the outer edge situations. Even with the programming solution, we will evaluate the situation properly and find a solution that everyone can keep on with their roleplay (bandits doing their thing ect.).
In the end we need to protect the real victims, those players who are nearly quitting the server because they see no end or solution to their problem. We are not talking about getting raided a day or two, we are talking about the real bleeding edge of the community (those too week/poor/stubborn to surrender or come to a good solution).



Sometimes, this doesn't suffice. If both sides just kick each others asses (but they actually don't like to do so) because they are to stubborn to finish the war (too much honor and pride), there must be a way to go about this problem.

As I mentioned before, It's not about the broad mass which is affected by this situation, it will be an uncommon practice.

Afterall, you can(and you are supposed to) go the normal way with warfar and making alliances. It is about protecting the weak and not to stop someone that likes to raid or act as a bandit.
This is a way to cut off the edge situation that happens the more and more nowadays...[DOUBLEPOST=1369236564,1369236479][/DOUBLEPOST]
Refusing a surrender will not simply be accepted as a reason for calling us. Surrender must be taken seriously afterall. Read my above post, it should cover it pretty much.
I didn't read the above post in detail just did and you answered my question thank you :D
 
As I mentioned before, It's not about the broad mass which is affected by this situation, it will be an uncommon practice.


I must stress this again, it's not like we are going to stick our hands into every war, we simply deal with fringe cases that are rare extremes.
 
So I think basically Admin/Staff Can "stop" the person who is "only" over raiding a faction till they rage quit server? Is that how it is or sounds like Iam alittle confused @-@
 
I like this solution- It's not flawless, but it's a start. As part of a peaceful faction, we still get war enemied for no apparent reason at least once a week, and then we have to deal with that diplomatically. I'm truly happy to be labeled as a peaceful faction.
Also, is there maybe a way to integrate moderators intervening into the roleplay? It may be more accepted by players in general if this is the case.
 
Moderators could be, say, representatives of the Religion of Light from Regalia. The Church used to hold great political power in medieval Europe.
 
After a good 24 hours of consideration, I've come to this conclusion.

If this is indeed a temporary solution, I (personally) can deal with it. I still persists factions should have to take care of there own problems, but in the game I'm a player, not a staff. My goal and job isn't to make the server as friendly as possible, it's to have fun and work hard (perhaps not work, but you know what I'm getting at) to attain what I seek. I doubt the server will ever be "perfect" for me, but I'm still impressed when the mods put so much effort in: so unlike other servers.

I look forward to hearing the details of this tech solution Cayorian will work on. Until then, as said, this should only affect fringe situations.
 
I dont understand why factions are allowed to declare "Never Surrender" even though they are clearly beaten in a war. Alamut is now under sanctions and can not raid. They do not attack weak factions or new players. If the terms are reasonable there should be a formal surrender in a war. As with Deathfist and Aux both should have been instructed to surrender to alamut. Argonia was pounded by alamut day after day and despite our pride Grailen16 made the desision to surrender. My point is , you cant satisfy everyone ,but at some point you must admit defeat. In real life there is failure and ,we must accept if and go on with our lives.
 
I still persists factions should have to take care of there own problems, but in the game I'm a player, not a staff
This is what all the team wants and would like to see, becourse diplomacy and politics is a part of the roleplaying perspective of war.
I dont understand why factions are allowed to declare "Never Surrender"
Immature stubbornness in my opinion, by both parties.

The conclusion is, when two kids fight on the school yard it often solves itself. But sometimes the adult have to step between them and solve the conflict. Enought is enought.
 
Actually DeathFist had beaten Alamut if you recall Shortbus, to a point where a mod sanctioned 1v1 with Tacomassacre & Cowboys took place to resolve the matter that you & Austin jumped into. Even thought we'd won previous battles & Taco beat the 3 of you in that honor duel, you guys still managed to continue the war despite the agreement to resolve our differences upon it's conclusion. Had we lost that duel we would have conceded with dignity & honor, the same expectation we had for you.
 
Symptomy
You can only claim victory in the territory of your enemy. What you did...pardon, what tacomassacre did, was defending your citadel.
 
Actually DeathFist had beaten Alamut if you recall Shortbus, to a point where a mod sanctioned 1v1 with Tacomassacre & Cowboys took place to resolve the matter that you & Austin jumped into. Even thought we'd won previous battles & Taco beat the 3 of you in that honor duel, you guys still managed to continue the war despite the agreement to resolve our differences upon it's conclusion. Had we lost that duel we would have conceded with dignity & honor, the same expectation we had for you.
Perhaps there should be a 1v1 ,2v2 ,or 3v3 in a controlled enviroment such as a arena. As a official end to this war, with a mod present. Any 1v1 fighting in either territory is unfair as a way to resolve conflict. I say put forth your best fighters in arena combat. Negociate terms for the challenge. Make it a event for public view. Loser surrenders, raiding stops, back to life on massivecraft.[DOUBLEPOST=1369412397,1369411849][/DOUBLEPOST]
In the end we need to protect the real victims, those players who are nearly quitting the server because they see no end or solution to their problem. We are not talking about getting raided a day or two, we are talking about the real bleeding edge of the community (those too week/poor/stubborn to surrender or come to a good solution).
The end or solution is to surrender. All raiding will stop and life goes on. Why is "to stubborn to surrender" an acceptable excuse? If there is a legit reason for war then why should there not be a conclusion?
 
I have a suggestion. What if some players formed a group/faction who will act like the United Nations? This group can try to stop these factions. This will add some rp in the game and a solution to everlasting wars
 
(Let me state for the record I am 37, married for ten years and have a young child who is present, and can hear while I play)

Since one of my factions, DeathFist, was specifically mentioned and has been used as an example, I will just chime in quickly to set the record straight in the case of our example, and how it pertains to this, thoroughly explained, and the solutions we have offered over time and our current opinion and endorsement, with conditional support, of the new policy, should it be effectively administered as I have no doubt it will:

Deathfist had initially expected a fun war, maybe over a weekend or two, since I had made it clear to the other leader our original intention was to seek an alliance with them eventually due to our close ties to Pariahfolk from which we claim our origins and from where we diverged into our own roleplay environment (established prior to the official server rp rules to which we do not adhere, call it light rp if you will but it is ours based on our rp history here and our internal rp culture).

We won outright against the instigating and attacking raiders at our base for three days straight and claimed the victory = end of it in our eyes and we offered a simple neutrality and that be the end of it, we never asked for a surrender, we do not seek to dominate others, in no way did we feel beaten in the slightest.

DeathFist was informed it could only end if we surrender since they declared war, totally ignoring the option of them giving up or the possibility of us winning under any circumstance other then attacking them at their base until they surrendered. We eventually sought to end it with an honor duel overseen by a mod. When this occurred the 1v1 fight was interrupted by two others joining in the ring it making it a 3v1, basically three mcmmo front page players against one guy with barely 400 unarmed. To be totally clear it was arranged in an area of wilderness and the closest spot happened to be within our one chunk walled in area of a building, it was fair and in wilderness and was for the intent to end the war, never just to defend our citadel as we had already concluded. Due to the skill of our champion we won this totally unfair and dishonorable duel and again expected the end of it at that point so we could continue with the halted building we were working on. This chance to just end it on a positive, everyone go home now, note, was lost and I still do not understand why at that point something wasn't enforced. The option to have a duel to settle disputes is one that can be made fun and enjoyable for both parties and results in a result that can be lived with, like betting on a fight, perhaps have a mod hold the stake of each side in such a case prior to it so both sides enter the ring with equal knowledge that should they win the result will be upheld and the winnings given promptly.

This was my official declaration at the time this occurred, "1. You or your faction mates/allies have disturbed our rp and playtime for ten days straight, we called this in our favor on day three and also won the duel so all you are capable of is harassment after the fact and not having the courtesy to acknowledge our very fair terms to just drop it and neutral."

How this was not allowed to stand at the end of it was a mistake in my opinion, at this point a mod could easily have said fine, if you will just leave it here neutral we can all move on.

The next thing we found was when we were informed we would be raided every day, sometimes for up to four or more hours, until we agreed to their demands, this was just an outright declaration of intent to harass and was totally unacceptable to us, but we have endured it and we get a ton of free loot and god gear off of them as has always been the case. Our issues fighting in lag (we don't) and not fighting when game mechanics are exploited for advantage and interfere with our suspension of disbelief (example: moving through solid stone blocks) have been clearly expressed on several occasions. Fight fair or don't. The invitation to attack them at their base has never been of interest to us and most especially due to the knowledge of a strategic devise intended for the lowering of fps called a "lag machine" with the sole intent of increasing their odds in combat and quite possibly covering the usage of modified clients regardless of video evidence creating an unfair situation we will not put ourselves into.

The next development was when we established a village for new players on the server and new members. Our new, low mcmmo stat, members were being targeted in their homes and while building their first buildings on massivecraft, this was totally cowardly but justified as part of war so we should suck it up, this was after close to three months of this "war". This eventually let up to a point where one of our mob spawners had the interior trap mechanism destroyed and a structure built in the middle of our new player village with the express intent to troll and harass, the immediate effect being that several of our new members were not able to spend an evening playing, only at other alternative locations, rather than in their own new base. This was determined to be breaking some rules and as such resulted in an enforced 75 day truce (mind you after I requested NO bans be administerd as was offered as it was due for the offenses incurred). This was an acceptable end for us, we had shown mercy and restraint with our punishment options, as offered, and we were looking forward to improving our relations so that at the end the end of 75 days we hoped to be friends or at least remain neutral. This was quickly overturned and we were returned to the regular daily and random attacks and disruption of our playtime. This again ould have been the end of it but it was thrust back upon us, mind you, all of this against our will or intentions.

We are now into almost four months of this, we are inundated whenever we build outside, and in general in any other massivecraft environment, be it in game general or local chat with trashtalk, on the teamspeak server with sexually suggestive avatars, trying to get into our private chat rooms and also in responses to most of our members forum posts, just wait, I'm sure they will be here too although it is not my intent to inflame or troll with this, simply set the record straight and offer solutions to similar situations. My statements here only stand as a history of what has happened, mistakes made when it could have been resolved and the solutions that will prevent others having similar negative experiences due to certain individuals and their agendas. Our sole intent is the improvement of the server for future players, to be totally clear with this.

This, after us being attacked for near four months, has likely been a large influence on the recent and welcome changes, as it has been a knock on influence on our build style as well (where the citadel is I started with a nice cottage and farm, the citadel is a result of five months of constantly being raided). We still offer total and unconditional neutrality in this and will let it drop, if they will. We do not care to play with them anymore.This is my official and final position.

We have moved on and have greatly increased our presence on the server, we have formed our own government and consortium of factions. We have made the effort to realize a great deal of positive out of this situation in terms of loads of gear from them, allies who despise their actions and a community of factions who choose to play a better way and conduct their "war" in a fun way. Heck, our goal when we do choose to raid or attack a faction is to leave and have them think we are the coolest faction they have been raid by, and in many cases it leads to great friendships, as playing together should. However, this has not been playing together nice, it has been bullying and harassment from the start, poorly justified and exploiting the emotions of our younger players. The situation is little more than an irritation as I have previously stated. I hope the reluctance of the mods to rectify the situation has been resolved, as I infer from this new policy, and we can all get on with what we enjoy so much about playing on massivecraft and we can all move on.

"The faction getting raided must make there own solution to the problem, whether it be fighting back, or getting other factions to force the raiding faction to stop."

In response to this I can say that in game my faction, DeathFist did do this. We joined an alliance (Auxillian Alliance), and additionally formed our own consortium of factions including DeathFist, Citadel, Consortium, DeathLands, Latrommi, Kindred, Yergav, Defiance, Vyyrak, Aincrad, Alfakyn and Einherjar. This had no effect on the situation as nothing short of moderation of the situation would resolve it.

If our tribulations result in new and improved means of dealing with conflict then it is all worth it. Our hope is that these new changes work out, and if they require tweaking that the mods will respect the player base for all of their feedback and continue to make the hard calls needed to maintain and continuously improve this awesome server community I really do enjoy at the end of the day to be a part of.

SiB
 
(Let me state for the record I am 37, married for ten years and have a young child who is present, and can hear while I play)

Since one of my factions, DeathFist, was specifically mentioned and has been used as an example, I will just chime in quickly to set the record straight in the case of our example, and how it pertains to this, thoroughly explained, and the solutions we have offered over time and our current opinion and endorsement, with conditional support, of the new policy, should it be effectively administered as I have no doubt it will:

Deathfist had initially expected a fun war, maybe over a weekend or two, since I had made it clear to the other leader our original intention was to seek an alliance with them eventually due to our close ties to Pariahfolk from which we claim our origins and from where we diverged into our own roleplay environment (established prior to the official server rp rules to which we do not adhere, call it light rp if you will but it is ours based on our rp history here and our internal rp culture).

We won outright against the instigating and attacking raiders at our base for three days straight and claimed the victory = end of it in our eyes and we offered a simple neutrality and that be the end of it, we never asked for a surrender, we do not seek to dominate others, in no way did we feel beaten in the slightest.

DeathFist was informed it could only end if we surrender since they declared war, totally ignoring the option of them giving up or the possibility of us winning under any circumstance other then attacking them at their base until they surrendered. We eventually sought to end it with an honor duel overseen by a mod. When this occurred the 1v1 fight was interrupted by two others joining in the ring it making it a 3v1, basically three mcmmo front page players against one guy with barely 400 unarmed. To be totally clear it was arranged in an area of wilderness and the closest spot happened to be within our one chunk walled in area of a building, it was fair and in wilderness and was for the intent to end the war, never just to defend our citadel as we had already concluded. Due to the skill of our champion we won this totally unfair and dishonorable duel and again expected the end of it at that point so we could continue with the halted building we were working on. This chance to just end it on a positive, everyone go home now, note, was lost and I still do not understand why at that point something wasn't enforced. The option to have a duel to settle disputes is one that can be made fun and enjoyable for both parties and results in a result that can be lived with, like betting on a fight, perhaps have a mod hold the stake of each side in such a case prior to it so both sides enter the ring with equal knowledge that should they win the result will be upheld and the winnings given promptly.

This was my official declaration at the time this occurred, "1. You or your faction mates/allies have disturbed our rp and playtime for ten days straight, we called this in our favor on day three and also won the duel so all you are capable of is harassment after the fact and not having the courtesy to acknowledge our very fair terms to just drop it and neutral."

How this was not allowed to stand at the end of it was a mistake in my opinion, at this point a mod could easily have said fine, if you will just leave it here neutral we can all move on.

The next thing we found was when we were informed we would be raided every day, sometimes for up to four or more hours, until we agreed to their demands, this was just an outright declaration of intent to harass and was totally unacceptable to us, but we have endured it and we get a ton of free loot and god gear off of them as has always been the case. Our issues fighting in lag (we don't) and not fighting when game mechanics are exploited for advantage and interfere with our suspension of disbelief (example: moving through solid stone blocks) have been clearly expressed on several occasions. Fight fair or don't. The invitation to attack them at their base has never been of interest to us and most especially due to the knowledge of a strategic devise intended for the lowering of fps called a "lag machine" with the sole intent of increasing their odds in combat and quite possibly covering the usage of modified clients regardless of video evidence creating an unfair situation we will not put ourselves into.

The next development was when we established a village for new players on the server and new members. Our new, low mcmmo stat, members were being targeted in their homes and while building their first buildings on massivecraft, this was totally cowardly but justified as part of war so we should suck it up, this was after close to three months of this "war". This eventually let up to a point where one of our mob spawners had the interior trap mechanism destroyed and a structure built in the middle of our new player village with the express intent to troll and harass, the immediate effect being that several of our new members were not able to spend an evening playing, only at other alternative locations, rather than in their own new base. This was determined to be breaking some rules and as such resulted in an enforced 75 day truce (mind you after I requested NO bans be administerd as was offered as it was due for the offenses incurred). This was an acceptable end for us, we had shown mercy and restraint with our punishment options, as offered, and we were looking forward to improving our relations so that at the end the end of 75 days we hoped to be friends or at least remain neutral. This was quickly overturned and we were returned to the regular daily and random attacks and disruption of our playtime. This again ould have been the end of it but it was thrust back upon us, mind you, all of this against our will or intentions.

We are now into almost four months of this, we are inundated whenever we build outside, and in general in any other massivecraft environment, be it in game general or local chat with trashtalk, on the teamspeak server with sexually suggestive avatars, trying to get into our private chat rooms and also in responses to most of our members forum posts, just wait, I'm sure they will be here too although it is not my intent to inflame or troll with this, simply set the record straight and offer solutions to similar situations. My statements here only stand as a history of what has happened, mistakes made when it could have been resolved and the solutions that will prevent others having similar negative experiences due to certain individuals and their agendas. Our sole intent is the improvement of the server for future players, to be totally clear with this.

This, after us being attacked for near four months, has likely been a large influence on the recent and welcome changes, as it has been a knock on influence on our build style as well (where the citadel is I started with a nice cottage and farm, the citadel is a result of five months of constantly being raided). We still offer total and unconditional neutrality in this and will let it drop, if they will. We do not care to play with them anymore.This is my official and final position.

We have moved on and have greatly increased our presence on the server, we have formed our own government and consortium of factions. We have made the effort to realize a great deal of positive out of this situation in terms of loads of gear from them, allies who despise their actions and a community of factions who choose to play a better way and conduct their "war" in a fun way. Heck, our goal when we do choose to raid or attack a faction is to leave and have them think we are the coolest faction they have been raid by, and in many cases it leads to great friendships, as playing together should. However, this has not been playing together nice, it has been bullying and harassment from the start, poorly justified and exploiting the emotions of our younger players. The situation is little more than an irritation as I have previously stated. I hope the reluctance of the mods to rectify the situation has been resolved, as I infer from this new policy, and we can all get on with what we enjoy so much about playing on massivecraft and we can all move on.

"The faction getting raided must make there own solution to the problem, whether it be fighting back, or getting other factions to force the raiding faction to stop."

In response to this I can say that in game my faction, DeathFist did do this. We joined an alliance (Auxillian Alliance), and additionally formed our own consortium of factions including DeathFist, Citadel, Consortium, DeathLands, Latrommi, Kindred, Yergav, Defiance, Vyyrak, Aincrad, Alfakyn and Einherjar. This had no effect on the situation as nothing short of moderation of the situation would resolve it.

If our tribulations result in new and improved means of dealing with conflict then it is all worth it. Our hope is that these new changes work out, and if they require tweaking that the mods will respect the player base for all of their feedback and continue to make the hard calls needed to maintain and continuously improve this awesome server community I really do enjoy at the end of the day to be a part of.

SiB
Dats the longer comment and reply you have ever read
 
If I build myself a nice little island, make a peaceful monk faction to live on the island, and have everything going swell,
I don't want a bunch of trolls with an OP faction with OP weapons and armour, and much more members starting a massive war and refusing to leave us alone until we 'sell them the faction for free' because that could happen, and in my opinion, I'm glad that they're adding this stuff to try stop shizzle like that shizzling.
 
(Let me state for the record I am 37, married for ten years and have a young child who is present, and can hear while I play)

Since one of my factions, DeathFist, was specifically mentioned and has been used as an example, I will just chime in quickly to set the record straight in the case of our example, and how it pertains to this, thoroughly explained, and the solutions we have offered over time and our current opinion and endorsement, with conditional support, of the new policy, should it be effectively administered as I have no doubt it will:

Deathfist had initially expected a fun war, maybe over a weekend or two, since I had made it clear to the other leader our original intention was to seek an alliance with them eventually due to our close ties to Pariahfolk from which we claim our origins and from where we diverged into our own roleplay environment (established prior to the official server rp rules to which we do not adhere, call it light rp if you will but it is ours based on our rp history here and our internal rp culture).

We won outright against the instigating and attacking raiders at our base for three days straight and claimed the victory = end of it in our eyes and we offered a simple neutrality and that be the end of it, we never asked for a surrender, we do not seek to dominate others, in no way did we feel beaten in the slightest.

DeathFist was informed it could only end if we surrender since they declared war, totally ignoring the option of them giving up or the possibility of us winning under any circumstance other then attacking them at their base until they surrendered. We eventually sought to end it with an honor duel overseen by a mod. When this occurred the 1v1 fight was interrupted by two others joining in the ring it making it a 3v1, basically three mcmmo front page players against one guy with barely 400 unarmed. To be totally clear it was arranged in an area of wilderness and the closest spot happened to be within our one chunk walled in area of a building, it was fair and in wilderness and was for the intent to end the war, never just to defend our citadel as we had already concluded. Due to the skill of our champion we won this totally unfair and dishonorable duel and again expected the end of it at that point so we could continue with the halted building we were working on. This chance to just end it on a positive, everyone go home now, note, was lost and I still do not understand why at that point something wasn't enforced. The option to have a duel to settle disputes is one that can be made fun and enjoyable for both parties and results in a result that can be lived with, like betting on a fight, perhaps have a mod hold the stake of each side in such a case prior to it so both sides enter the ring with equal knowledge that should they win the result will be upheld and the winnings given promptly.

This was my official declaration at the time this occurred, "1. You or your faction mates/allies have disturbed our rp and playtime for ten days straight, we called this in our favor on day three and also won the duel so all you are capable of is harassment after the fact and not having the courtesy to acknowledge our very fair terms to just drop it and neutral."

How this was not allowed to stand at the end of it was a mistake in my opinion, at this point a mod could easily have said fine, if you will just leave it here neutral we can all move on.

The next thing we found was when we were informed we would be raided every day, sometimes for up to four or more hours, until we agreed to their demands, this was just an outright declaration of intent to harass and was totally unacceptable to us, but we have endured it and we get a ton of free loot and god gear off of them as has always been the case. Our issues fighting in lag (we don't) and not fighting when game mechanics are exploited for advantage and interfere with our suspension of disbelief (example: moving through solid stone blocks) have been clearly expressed on several occasions. Fight fair or don't. The invitation to attack them at their base has never been of interest to us and most especially due to the knowledge of a strategic devise intended for the lowering of fps called a "lag machine" with the sole intent of increasing their odds in combat and quite possibly covering the usage of modified clients regardless of video evidence creating an unfair situation we will not put ourselves into.

The next development was when we established a village for new players on the server and new members. Our new, low mcmmo stat, members were being targeted in their homes and while building their first buildings on massivecraft, this was totally cowardly but justified as part of war so we should suck it up, this was after close to three months of this "war". This eventually let up to a point where one of our mob spawners had the interior trap mechanism destroyed and a structure built in the middle of our new player village with the express intent to troll and harass, the immediate effect being that several of our new members were not able to spend an evening playing, only at other alternative locations, rather than in their own new base. This was determined to be breaking some rules and as such resulted in an enforced 75 day truce (mind you after I requested NO bans be administerd as was offered as it was due for the offenses incurred). This was an acceptable end for us, we had shown mercy and restraint with our punishment options, as offered, and we were looking forward to improving our relations so that at the end the end of 75 days we hoped to be friends or at least remain neutral. This was quickly overturned and we were returned to the regular daily and random attacks and disruption of our playtime. This again ould have been the end of it but it was thrust back upon us, mind you, all of this against our will or intentions.

We are now into almost four months of this, we are inundated whenever we build outside, and in general in any other massivecraft environment, be it in game general or local chat with trashtalk, on the teamspeak server with sexually suggestive avatars, trying to get into our private chat rooms and also in responses to most of our members forum posts, just wait, I'm sure they will be here too although it is not my intent to inflame or troll with this, simply set the record straight and offer solutions to similar situations. My statements here only stand as a history of what has happened, mistakes made when it could have been resolved and the solutions that will prevent others having similar negative experiences due to certain individuals and their agendas. Our sole intent is the improvement of the server for future players, to be totally clear with this.

This, after us being attacked for near four months, has likely been a large influence on the recent and welcome changes, as it has been a knock on influence on our build style as well (where the citadel is I started with a nice cottage and farm, the citadel is a result of five months of constantly being raided). We still offer total and unconditional neutrality in this and will let it drop, if they will. We do not care to play with them anymore.This is my official and final position.

We have moved on and have greatly increased our presence on the server, we have formed our own government and consortium of factions. We have made the effort to realize a great deal of positive out of this situation in terms of loads of gear from them, allies who despise their actions and a community of factions who choose to play a better way and conduct their "war" in a fun way. Heck, our goal when we do choose to raid or attack a faction is to leave and have them think we are the coolest faction they have been raid by, and in many cases it leads to great friendships, as playing together should. However, this has not been playing together nice, it has been bullying and harassment from the start, poorly justified and exploiting the emotions of our younger players. The situation is little more than an irritation as I have previously stated. I hope the reluctance of the mods to rectify the situation has been resolved, as I infer from this new policy, and we can all get on with what we enjoy so much about playing on massivecraft and we can all move on.

"The faction getting raided must make there own solution to the problem, whether it be fighting back, or getting other factions to force the raiding faction to stop."

In response to this I can say that in game my faction, DeathFist did do this. We joined an alliance (Auxillian Alliance), and additionally formed our own consortium of factions including DeathFist, Citadel, Consortium, DeathLands, Latrommi, Kindred, Yergav, Defiance, Vyyrak, Aincrad, Alfakyn and Einherjar. This had no effect on the situation as nothing short of moderation of the situation would resolve it.

If our tribulations result in new and improved means of dealing with conflict then it is all worth it. Our hope is that these new changes work out, and if they require tweaking that the mods will respect the player base for all of their feedback and continue to make the hard calls needed to maintain and continuously improve this awesome server community I really do enjoy at the end of the day to be a part of.

SiB
There's the two week sanction during which we can't raid you. Just train up and try to beat us next time.[DOUBLEPOST=1369427408,1369423468][/DOUBLEPOST]
Fight fair or don't. The invitation to attack them at their base has never been of interest to us and most especially due to the knowledge of a strategic devise intended for the lowering of fps called a "lag machine" with the sole intent of increasing their odds in combat and quite possibly covering the usage of modified clients regardless of video evidence creating an unfair situation we will not put ourselves into.
And I'm sorry, but this just really has me shaking my head...
 
There's the two week sanction during which we can't raid you. Just train up and try to beat us next time.[DOUBLEPOST=1369427408,1369423468][/DOUBLEPOST]

And I'm sorry, but this just really has me shaking my head...
Yup...true story..I have experienced this thingy while stronger premium attacked us multiple times , but after 5 days of training + YouTube video I beat premiumes so bad till 1 of them lost his god armor and wanted to trade God Axe,God Sword to get his god armor back. So yea if you are reading my reply ...Iam a fanboy of cowboys1919,SoTotallyAce and KatyJosh so yea I took them as RoleModel...soz if I offended you...
 
I agree bandits should not have to be told for raiding people. Whether there new or an old player. Besides this is a pvp and rp server.
 
I personally agree with both sides of the story, weirdly enough, as I have been in both situations. Being a constant annoyance in war situations with others & being raided repeatable to the point that I have to go offline until they are offline.

I would suggest this - If two factions are in war, and one faction is obviously being crushed, the use of forums would be a good idea. Provide proof that said faction is winning and has been for some time, that way mods can easily assess the situation and the best outcome. (This idea would need work due to I haven't though of surrender terms, etc).

Bandit raiding is allowed in a sense, and since I role play a pirate, the most common way we would raid is spread out. You wouldn't see a band of pirates raiding one particular faction every day. We have over 50+ (No idea) factions o n this server, so there's enough to go around without targeting a faction particularly.
 
Just some quick ideas:

Perhaps "Bandits" should be a generic and make them all have to be wilderness and rely on keeping their bases mobile in the wild, factions who take them in could be persecuted for harboring outlaws. Faction who persist in bandit tactics could face sanctions or, perhaps after a warning or two, disbanding. When I think of bandits I think of highway men, outlaws, perhaps even a band of merry men robbing the rich and helping the poor, either way, like a wolf, a bandit is still an outlaw and should be free to be killed by anyone on sight, and if people have problems with them in an area they could offer bounties so we then also have bounty hunter factions. An official list of outlaws could be posted in cities with the rewards and who is offering them, only problem is how to prove the kill and get paid. An automated plugin that any player could access, set a bounty and put the money into would be nice so the next person could access the list and agree to a bounty and automatically get paid on the kill, I've heard there are plugins like this already, just never used one myself.

Edit: When you have paid a bounty and had the bandits killed, maybe several times, what is to stop them returning from the "grave" seeking revenge in an endless cycle? This is where the issue is, when attackers don't take their whooping and leave it alone, it is the "raider" mentality and when they find a faction who does pose a decent challenge they always return to it because that is where they seem to get their entertainment-through the endless disruption of others entertainment. This is classic bullying and perhaps a bully/harassment rule should be made clear to prevent a faction from attacking another for more than a week or two at most, and especially when one side has made it clear they do not wish to continue engaging when they will never be allowed to quit unless they give in, regardless of circumstances.. When it carries on and over to close to half a year, or your entire time on the server, it gets a little silly.
 
The invitation to attack them at their base has never been of interest to us and most especially due to the knowledge of a strategic devise intended for the lowering of fps called a "lag machine" with the sole intent of increasing their odds in combat and quite possibly covering the usage of modified clients regardless of video evidence creating an unfair situation we will not put ourselves into.
A lag machine... Really... A lag machine... Yup guys secrets out Alamut has a huge lag machine under their base. That explains how you couldn't record anywhere else too. It teleports around to follow them to prevent you from recording dem l33t hax. Very logical and well thought out.
 
I imagine something of the sorts of a "lag machine" has been created in Minecraft before. I large city like Regalia could be considered a "lag machine", seeing as I drop in FPS considerably when I go to /uspawn, but my PC isn't the best. I highly doubt though that Alamut has taken the time to build a "lag machine" under their base just to gain an advantage or cover up possible hacking.
 
I personally liked the old rules. If a faction doesn't want to get raided, they surrender. If the attacking faction doesn't accept their surrender or keeps attacking them after their surrender then that's harassment. You are either gonna pay up or suffer.
 
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