Archived The Great Big Magic Suggestion Document!

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Huinkoch

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Reintroducing Magic into MassivecraftFactions!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FGqCpILSi7-X8QJoQmNUY0xspYz09XNZptjxGgi7Drc/edit?usp=sharing

This is a small work I've set on per the Massivecraft Factions discord.
In short, the work has a goal of suggesting some traits to help with returning magic to the factions world, expand the diversity of combat, expand the Meta past the current trait set, and allow players who aren't necessarily great at click-based combat to have some other avenues and choices they can make to still take part and be a team player for their faction.
The main event at hand with the document is the addition of magic, based in the server Lore (slightly altered and balanced to Survival and Minecraft mechanics), but has some additions in the form of Alchemy recipes based in server lore, as well as some extensions to basic Minecraft PVP, with a few traits to enhance Stealth and combat-weaving gameplay, and a few traits to make Shields have a reason to exist!

Comments are enabled on the document, but will also like any feedback below
This is also my first thread, so yes it's a bit bland, but gosh darn it I'll get better.

Discord for contacting me regarding doc is
Bonnie#4416
 
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I felt that the comments area is a little weird for feedback on the main ideas, so I thought I'd throw those in here. (Oh, also, FIRST!)

I don't know about having magic tied in with faction power... It seems that factions that would prefer, for whatever reason, to be more mundane and less magical would struggle with that. I do agree that mage cities and such would be interesting, but I think the reason most people opt out of those is because they require a much higher level of creativity, time, and work to get right. Plus, you need to be interested in mages and such to start, and that does seem a little bit unlikely, which I imagine is why they're so rare.

I'm absolutely with you on the traits... The fact that so many revolve around strikes and revenges is definitely a little frustrating, and more variety would be much appreciated. When you say "introduce the lore as a real force", what do you mean? I think traits were meant to be a gameplay perk, not something used in roleplay... I could easily be wrong, though...

I will reiterate that incorporating lore into traits would partially defeat the point of them, however. Unless you mean you'd like to have traits incorporated into lore... As far as I know, most players don't use traits in roleplay, but to be fair, as I don't roleplay myself, my opinion on the subject is of limited value.

All in all, your doc looks exceptionally well written, and must have taken quite awhile to make, so kudos on that. Blocks of text make my eyes go screwy, so I struggled to read as much as I did, but as a writer myself I can say you've done a very good job. Aside from my pretty minor notes above, I see no real issues with what I have read... Good job!
 

Basically I just used the established (and some deprecated) lore from the wiki (Pre-personal magic, altalar rings lore, phantasma, vampirism, silven, undeadism etc etc) as a major point of reference or inspiration when it came to my suggestions. Of course these wouldn't be used in the roleplay world (though I guess some of the visuals can be made use of if your personal magic lines up). It was more or less to pay respect to the world we're actually playing in. The wiki's old schools magic is actually pretty balanced numbers-wise, too.
Though, I do know some other documents have suggested to add in more entities from the lore as a tangible force in the factions world, and not using CoN as the sole gameplay-oriented connection.
Oh, and I put in a few pictures to make things kinda look prettier. There's still tons of text, but y'know.
 
I have no issue with massivemagic returning, but i dont think a single player in the PvP community liked how it affected pvp atleast, it would have to be completely revamped to function properly in PvP
 
I have no issue with massivemagic returning, but i dont think a single player in the PvP community liked how it affected pvp atleast, it would have to be completely revamped to function properly in PvP
Massivemagic in its own way was a good plugin, yet it was not finished and at the start was being used, it went downhill from that pretty fast, and i see this as something that is trying to aim from a different concept then massivemagic itself.
 
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I'm just going to guess you didn't actually read the doc, otherwise you would've known it's not massivemagic in any way except it's just based in magic, none of the mechanics are the same, and the fact it's not just magical traits. xD But, thank you for the reminder it would need to fit to PVP. I've gone to great lengths to ensure melee would not be left out, and have proper counters to magic, as well as multiple other various additions to spice up melee PVP beyond the base traits.
I did read the document or atleast parts of it, but it seems waaaay too complicated to make work properly and balanced on a minecraft server, bunch of servers have tried systems like that with magical spells etc, it always turns into extreme unbalance or a very strict meta
 
Well, when you say "add in more entities", do you mean mobs? Because with that, lag would become a serious concern, as it did with MassiveMobs. Personally I'd enjoy more monsters to fight, but given the amount of lore, you'd have to add in a whole lot of them(ie MassiveMobs) to do the lore any real justice, and we'd run into the lag problem again.
 
Well, when you say "add in more entities", do you mean mobs? Because with that, lag would become a serious concern, as it did with MassiveMobs. Personally I'd enjoy more monsters to fight, but given the amount of lore, you'd have to add in a whole lot of them(ie MassiveMobs) to do the lore any real justice, and we'd run into the lag problem again.

No, no, the other document I was referring to wanted to add in more preset political entities, stuff that'd basically act as a great house in CoN, but not for CoN. Like.. NPC nations with interests in Essa, so your faction could join/assist them similarly to CoN, but that's not something I've really written for in my doc. I'm not really wanting to expand too far into that or touch on it in my doc. My doc is purely a traits expansion and just uses magic lore as a reference. But yeah, no extra mobs, TPS has already been bad enough lately! xD
 
No, no, the other document I was referring to wanted to add in more preset political entities, stuff that'd basically act as a great house in CoN, but not for CoN. Like.. NPC nations with interests in Essa, so your faction could join/assist them similarly to CoN, but that's not something I've really written for in my doc. I'm not really wanting to expand too far into that or touch on it in my doc. My doc is purely a traits expansion and just uses magic lore as a reference. But yeah, no extra mobs, TPS has already been bad enough lately! xD

Ah, gotcha.
 
+1 I suck at MC Click Combat but would probably good at some form of Magic/Ability based combat thanks to my investment into learning things like Cooldown management in Throwverwatch.
 
I mean no, but I don't see OP being much more successful than MassiveMagic to be totally honest
I think it wouldn't fit into the current traits system because these seem way stronger than any melee alternative

Maybe if melee traits had a big rework alongside it could work
 
It might help if the current traits system wasn't broken as hell though. Magic or no magic, it might be better to fix the system as is before introducing new features, I suppose
 
I think it wouldn't fit into the current traits system because these seem way stronger than any melee alternative

Maybe if melee traits had a big rework alongside it could work

A lot of the CC-ey effects and positioning stuff is to make up for the lack of damage available in Magic, and maintain this stuff is meant to be what you place into a build to move to a more support-y role.

I do inlcude a full rework of strikes, more melee options such as backstabs, stealth play, and anti-mage specific traits as well. (See Witchblood, Zikiel Vampire, Silven Mutations, some Shield options.)

But let's consider some of the damage output.
A basic, str 2 sword swing is around 12 damage assuming no SwordResist. Without str 2 is 6 damage.
With swordres, it's around 10 damage.
Against a gal with swordres and prot 4, a strength 2 sharp v sword swing will do around 3 or so damage total assuming no Vanila crits (Critout). Magic can't really/doesn't really crit in my doc.

Fireball as it is right now does 10 damage, and ignores armor to an extent, to the point it can do up to 25% of someone's health (5 damage) in one cast, just for a measure of what we're dealing with right now. And that trait is considered "weak".

So let's consider that against every attack spell in the doc. Mind every spell is now affected by armor. Each spell also has some sort of reagent cost (Your health, a physical item, casttime.) So do keep that in consideration.

Demon Magic's Mourdan is a skill shot spell that fires three projectiles in a row at the cost of the User's health. Damage base per projectile is 8 damage, affected by armor.
Technically you're doing up to 24 damage, but it's affected by armor protection 3 times. And it hurts you to use.
Regent is your health, thus your health pots.

Elemental Magic, one of the more damage focused spell schools. For this, I took fireball, and split it into two spells.
The first spell, fireball, is a one-shot skillshot per 5 second cast that moves quickly but has no AOE, and allies can accidentally bodyblock and leave you with no damage dealt to anyone. I'm basically downgrading base fireball. It does 9 damage now.

Second spell, FireBolt is what we have right now, except slightly buffed to 12 damage, but given more mitigation from armor. So about as much as a whole hit. It should be doing the same as a str 2 sharp V sword with no resist, but on a 5 second cooldown. It was also changed to require three fire charges as a consumed reagent.

Third spell, Khalien, is a quick cast skillshot on a long cooldown that requires an Iron Nugget.
It does around 3 damage max, and is just meant to reward a good landing with a bit of extra damage.
The main point is to freeze solid a player struck.

Fourth spell, Kilhid, is a charge-up cone AOE that reaches further and grows stronger as you charge it up that requires an Iron Nugget. It slows you while charging.
Once you let it go, it can deal up to 4 damage, and inflicts the slow on any foes caught in the cone, while turning the terrain in the way of the cone icy and slippery.

Fifth spell, Khilen, is a quick cast skill shot projectile that deals 6 damage. The main gem to this spell is it's a "Stop, bitch" spell, similar to Khalien except it's on the player affected to escape it.
The rest of Elemental is Utility spells.

No spells in Mind Magic deal damage, except Anubhava, which is only 4 damage affected by armor. It's meant to be a disrupt spell.

Death magic has two spells that hurt.

CurseOfTorture is a 8 damage quick cast on a 6s cooldown. It's probably one of the more aggressive skillshots. If you impale the same dude 4 times with the spell, they'll be half-stunned, with a blind and their view forced down.

CurseOfFear is a chargeup AOE that deals 2 damage as a view knocker. The main point of the spell is it flips the view of people facing you when you blast it, and apply nausea. Basically a good "get off me" spell.

Kathar Magic.

HowlingJavelin is a 6 damage quick cast skillshot that combos into GhostBlades. 20 sec CD, though this could stand to be lowered.

GhostBlades is an 8 damage quick cast over-the-head skillshot. If you hit someone with it within 5 seconds of landing HowlingJavelin, you summon three extra blades, and fire them in rapid succession, all with the same statline as the first, at a 26 second cooldown.

Trickform is a spell that deals 2 damage, but ignores faction/ally status, and disguises an affected player as another random player.

PleasuringPain is a spell that quickly fires off multiple damage ticks to tilt the affect player's view into constant hurtcam while making the user unable to move or act as they focus on causing ungodly agony to their target.

That's all for Void.
12 spells in void cause damage, all mostly under 10 damage baseline compared to Fireball we have rn.

Soul Magic up next.

Soul Magic has a unique resource system of gathering souls into Qatils via a spell called Haratek. This powers stuff in Construct AND Soul Magic.

Hayvann is a pet projection and the base spell for all Soul spells along with Isilik. You can choose choose between two types of permanent pets. The combat variation acts like a wolf and does 9 damage. Having Hayvann instantly kills all wolves you own within a 100 block radius. The other variation acts like an Isilik totem and simply follows you around. It can be knocked out by attacking it or dispelled via certain magic.

No other spells in Soul Magic deal direct damage. They all are unique positioning and disrupting tools based around Isilik and Hayvann.

Celestial Magic's only damaging spell is Aveyle, the blinding light chargeup spell. It deals 2 damage base, but deals 8 damage to vampires and dispels shadow-related magics in Demon Magic.
Serna also increases Vampire heat excessively if in the area of Serna, up to their Melting Damage point.

Leveia damage has no damaging spells, being a self-support style. It has indirect damage in the form of Iknar, which causes losing your Nymphe shields to spawn vex mobs that deal 9 damage and last for 15 seconds that will attack whoever broke your Nymphe. They can be killed.

Folelsa magic has no spells that damage, they instead rely on your enraged player to play badly and hurt his friends.

Nelfin magic has one attack spell, a skillshot, which allows them to break off a bit of the terrain nearby similar to Bending magic and launch it at a foe for 8 damage. It's spammable. It won't actually affect terrain.

.. That's about it for the magic skills.
Usually per how I want people to set it up, they'll normally take Academy Magic, which costs 125, but lets you pick 3 spells and ignore their normal trait point cost and trait slot cost, and only have to deal with their other requirements. AKA Can't cross void and exist magic in the same build.
Or you can build into a single school.

To really like sum it up, magic does a lot less damage, but focuses more on positioning, dodgeable crowd control, that's a key factor to consider. Nearly all of the magic in the doc is a dodgeable skill shot or something you can predict and outplay directly or things that have abuse-able caveats, or you can just see through by being smart. I really don't think any mage will overtake melee builds, because melee builds can do so much damage so quickly compared to any magical build. It will probably start off really strong, since it's a bunch of new content and omggg so much new stuff. But then when people work out how each spell works, it'll fall in line under melee just like archers currently do.