Archived Silver Sinkhole: Powerboost

[nray93]

Notes:
1.After much deliberation I decided to post both my Ideas for Possible Silver Sinkholes seperate so that each can be judged by itself.
2. This is just something I would like the Team to consider for the Future, not a direct suggestion to implement now.
3. This is an Idea for a SILVER SINKHOLE. That means it is in order to get as much silver out of the System as possible.

My Idea is to make a purchaseable Powerboost for Factions. This is would basicly allow them to buy more Power to claim land for a price .
There is already a command for that in the plugin so all that would be needed would be someone who uses it.
For balancings sake and to prevent abuse the powerboost should be limited to
NumberOfMembers*5 (which would be a 50% increase for non prem and 25% for prem).
should the powerboost at ANY point be larger then NumberOfMembers*5 then it should be reduced NumberOfMembers*5 without any warning or refund (to prevent abuse).
Since it is tought as a Silver Sink the prices would be high, I mean 1 Power allows you to claim a 16x16 chunk. I would also like to use this opportunity to ask how high the Price should be per Power.

The Possible Range I thought of would be between 10s per point and 50s. If the price is to high , nobody would use it and it would be ineffective as sinkhole. If it is to low it would barely drain silver out of the system.

My personal Choice would be 20s-25s since it is expensive but still affordable.

As allways I would like people to deliver a constructive feedback.
That means if you think it needs tweaking, then mention WHERE exactly it needs tweaking.
If you disagree state the reasons WHY you disagree.

 

[Waminer]

This is good in theory, but really crummy in practice. While I have being in Algaron, experienced the need for power to claim land paying to get power is a bad idea.

First of all, it reduces the incentive to recruit noobs. Noobs are useful for other reasons, but the biggest instant one is power.

Secondly since this is cumulative you can easily have a faction with 1 inactive person being the leader have huge swaths of land built up, in which no one can build in.

Thirdly, FHFdoom. He has around 40,000 silver to my knowledge. This means 50s a point would make him able to claim 800 chunks of land. Or 1600 at your suggested level. While you may think, "Wow not worth it for them." this is enough to including all the others in his faction claim a quarter of a continent and still have them retain thousands of silver. While I used FHFdoom as an example, this will work with any rich person or faction and is a big enough of a problem to just ignore this idea, and as you can see above this is not the only problem.

 

[manioo8]

Secondly since this is cumulative you can easily have a faction with 1 inactive person being the leader have huge swaths of land built up, in which no one can build in.

Click to shrink...

As nray93 stated in his post there's a limit to max power you can buy, it being NumberOfMembers*5
so a faction with only one member (leader) could have max 1*5=5 additional power. Also the example you provided, with 80 000s isn't true because of this limit.

Right now i don't see any possible way to overuse/break this system, because it still would be cheaper to invite some noobs rather than buy 10 power for 250/500s, and there's a new system for money sinks, and a possibility for faction leaders to claim just enough faction land without the need to temporarily invite some noobs to get more power.

Interesting, balanced system, looks like it'd work well. supported

 

[Razalith]

I believe this is a good idea in theory and if done right could also work in practice.
Pros:
1. It offers a silver sink that people would actually use so we would see an economic swing back into the right direction.
2. It gives those who have a very tight nit family the ability to claim some extra land they need without risking having to bring in new players if they do not wish to. (Many I know have had to invite people in to claim a creation and lost a lot because they griefed or were thieves.)
3. Since there is a cap for 5 powerboost per faction player it would be harder to abuse but not impossible.

Cons:
1. Allows smaller factions to claim more and thrive without the need for larger factions.
-This may cause many more small factions with alliances to pop up instead of massive factions with 50-100 players.
Which could be good or bad depending on who you are talking to.
2. Although it would be harder to abuse it would not be impossible.
-Say faction Starfallen (fictional faction name as example) needs 400 land to claim all of their things they want.
They only have 10 people in their faction so they if all premium can get a total of 200 +(50 power boost)=250which is still 150 power short.
Starfallen decides to save up enough money to pay for extra land and invites 10 noobs and pays for the boost on all of them.
They now have the 400 land they needed claim everything and then boot the 10 noobs. Now Starfallen a 10 player faction has 400 claimed land.


So yes the ability to abuse the system is present but I believe there could be ways to work around this if implemented correctly.

If I had to put a price on a power I think I would want it to be closer to the 50s side. Just my personal opinion

 

[nray93]

This is good in theory, but really crummy in practice. While I have being in Algaron, experienced the need for power to claim land paying to get power is a bad idea.

First of all, it reduces the incentive to recruit noobs. Noobs are useful for other reasons, but the biggest instant one is power.

Secondly since this is cumulative you can easily have a faction with 1 inactive person being the leader have huge swaths of land built up, in which no one can build in.

Thirdly, FHFdoom. He has around 40,000 silver to my knowledge. This means 50s a point would make him able to claim 800 chunks of land. Or 1600 at your suggested level. While you may think, "Wow not worth it for them." this is enough to including all the others in his faction claim a quarter of a continent and still have them retain thousands of silver. While I used FHFdoom as an example, this will work with any rich person or faction and is a big enough of a problem to just ignore this idea, and as you can see above this is not the only problem.

Click to shrink...

As manioo8 mentioned there is a cap for the powerboost. And that cap is at NumberOfMembers*5 . In order to get those 800/1600 points of Power they would not only need ridicoulus amounts of silver but also 160/320 members in that faction. Not to mention that the moment they lose members their powerboost gets reduced accordingly.
ReadMore

I believe this is a good idea in theory and if done right could also work in practice.
Pros:
1. It offers a silver sink that people would actually use so we would see an economic swing back into the right direction.
2. It gives those who have a very tight nit family the ability to claim some extra land they need without risking having to bring in new players if they do not wish to. (Many I know have had to invite people in to claim a creation and lost a lot because they griefed or were thieves.)
3. Since there is a cap for 5 powerboost per faction player it would be harder to abuse but not impossible.

Cons:
1. Allows smaller factions to claim more and thrive without the need for larger factions.
-This may cause many more small factions with alliances to pop up instead of massive factions with 50-100 players.
Which could be good or bad depending on who you are talking to.
2. Although it would be harder to abuse it would not be impossible.
-Say faction Starfallen (fictional faction name as example) needs 400 land to claim all of their things they want.
They only have 10 people in their faction so they if all premium can get a total of 200 +(50 power boost)=250which is still 150 power short.
Starfallen decides to save up enough money to pay for extra land and invites 10 noobs and pays for the boost on all of them.
They now have the 400 land they needed claim everything and then boot the 10 noobs. Now Starfallen a 10 player faction has 400 claimed land.


So yes the ability to abuse the system is present but I believe there could be ways to work around this if implemented correctly.

If I had to put a price on a power I think I would want it to be closer to the 50s side. Just my personal opinion

Click to shrink...

1. As soon as starfallen boots them out their powerboost may be reduced to 50 (10*5) again without any refund cutting them short by 50.
2. Additionaly to that losing 10 members costs them another 100 power.
With either of them they have overclaimed. They will get a mail from a mod to unclaim till they are in the limit again. Should they refuse their land gets unclaimed by a mod.
ReadMore
Edit:
3. 100 powerboost at the level I suggested would cost 2000 silver. 1000 of that silver would be wasted since the boost gets reduced after kicking members.

Edit2: The reasons for both read more´s are because both Posts did not seem to recognize that there are safety measures against those types of abuse already within the original post. Therefore I asume that they did not read the complete post.

 

[Waminer]

As nray93 stated in his post there's a limit to max power you can buy, it being NumberOfMembers*5
so a faction with only one member (leader) could have max 1*5=5 additional power. Also the example you provided, with 80 000s isn't true because of this limit.

Right now i don't see any possible way to overuse/break this system, because it still would be cheaper to invite some noobs rather than buy 10 power for 250/500s, and there's a new system for money sinks, and a possibility for faction leaders to claim just enough faction land without the need to temporarily invite some noobs to get more power.

Interesting, balanced system, looks like it'd work well. supported

Click to shrink...

That was not there when I posted to my knowledge, and as well, I bet a large amount of the servers population would be willing to join a faction for a couple silver to be a power member, this is something that was stopped with the 3x overclaim rule, but would return because of this, therefore because for anyone that would use this money is not a huge problem, my 3rd point still stands. As well you bring up how it is cheaper to get noobs. However many factions such as Alamut, FHFdoom's, among others do not along noobs, making this good for the powerful factions that don't do anything to help noobs, while in Massivecraft right now, we need to help noobs be more powerful and wanted, not less.

I believe this is a good idea in theory and if done right could also work in practice.
Pros:
1. It offers a silver sink that people would actually use so we would see an economic swing back into the right direction.
2. It gives those who have a very tight nit family the ability to claim some extra land they need without risking having to bring in new players if they do not wish to. (Many I know have had to invite people in to claim a creation and lost a lot because they griefed or were thieves.)
3. Since there is a cap for 5 powerboost per faction player it would be harder to abuse but not impossible.

Cons:
1. Allows smaller factions to claim more and thrive without the need for larger factions.
-This may cause many more small factions with alliances to pop up instead of massive factions with 50-100 players.
Which could be good or bad depending on who you are talking to.
2. Although it would be harder to abuse it would not be impossible.
-Say faction Starfallen (fictional faction name as example) needs 400 land to claim all of their things they want.
They only have 10 people in their faction so they if all premium can get a total of 200 +(50 power boost)=250which is still 150 power short.
Starfallen decides to save up enough money to pay for extra land and invites 10 noobs and pays for the boost on all of them.
They now have the 400 land they needed claim everything and then boot the 10 noobs. Now Starfallen a 10 player faction has 400 claimed land.


So yes the ability to abuse the system is present but I believe there could be ways to work around this if implemented correctly.

If I had to put a price on a power I think I would want it to be closer to the 50s side. Just my personal opinion

Click to shrink...

I am addressing your pros in order of their listing.

1. While I won't deny this is a great silver sink, do we really want to sacrifice so much just to do something that can be done in many other ways without damaging the servers, balance and noob friendliness even more?

2. If you don't want recruits to build and destroy things, don't give them permissions to build and destroy in faction land... As well, your points addresses Teh poor RP families! Well, if a family is not big enough to run a city by themselves, they should not role-play as such.

3. As we see with bugs, MCCMO, and every single thing that exists in real life if there is a way to abuse things, they will be abused.

 

[Waminer]

As manioo8 mentioned there is a cap for the powerboost. And that cap is at NumberOfMembers*5 . In order to get those 800/1600 points of Power they would not only need ridicoulus amounts of silver but also 160/320 members in that faction. Not to mention that the moment they lose members their powerboost gets reduced accordingly.
ReadMore

Click to shrink...

Changing the content of your post to make me look like I blatantly ignored a point is neither intelligent nor a reason to say how everything I said was wrong. It's like if you comment on a blatant gap in MCCMO, and caused the staff to get rid of it. Then the staff message you saying "LOL SCRUB WHATA YOU SAYIN THERE BE NONE MCCMO GLITCH!"

 

[nray93]

Changing the content of your post to make me look like I blatantly ignored a point is neither intelligent nor a reason to say how everything I said was wrong. It's like if you comment on a blatant gap in MCCMO, and caused the staff to get rid of it. Then the staff message you saying "LOL SCRUB WHATA YOU SAYIN THERE BE NONE MCCMO GLITCH!"

Click to shrink...

The only edits which I do not mark with "Edit:" are grammatical edits (a.k.a. typo fixing).

 

[Mecharic]

I think this is something that should be tested but done away with if it proves to be too destructive.

 

[Fellbeast58blue]

This idea seems very nice. However there is one thing I do not like:

should the powerboost at ANY point be larger then NumberOfMembers*5 then it should be reduced NumberOfMembers*5 without any warning or refund (to prevent abuse).

Click to shrink...

I do not like this because say I had a certain amount of members in my faction and I used up the maximum amount of land I could purchase with them. What if they are disloyal and leave, or they become inactive and get auto-kicked? I would lose some of my claimed land without a refund and have wasted dozens of silver, and it wouldn't even be my fault. I think that if the power boost is larger and the number of members and land does have to be auto-unclaimed, at least give us leaders a refund.

Otherwise,
Supported

 

[Mecharic]

Fellbeast58blue - Wouldn't it just lower your power level by the amount those people were putting into the pot? Or is this not a perm power boost, you lose it when members leave?

 

[X0N3333]

Supported
I like this idea since I can now purchase additional land which means I don't have to be so power efficienc

 

[nray93]

Fellbeast58blue - Wouldn't it just lower your power level by the amount those people were putting into the pot? Or is this not a perm power boost, you lose it when members leave?

Click to shrink...

Basicly the only case in which you lose Powerboost would be when you lose enough members that your purchased powerboost exceeds your current number of members*5 . That means if you have for example 50 Powerboost purchased with a 30 player big faction, you will only lose some of it if the number of members sinks below 10. What I mean with this is that unless you really purchase as much powerboost as you can you are not very likely to lose it.

 

[Zpade]

Hm, an interesting concept.

I believe this deserves a chance. I would personally like to see this field-tested, see if it can prove itself worthy of staying in Massive.

Perhaps it might end up like deadbolt. Its first days were chaotic and caused misery and many, many missing diamonds(well, I suppose silver will fill this role xD), but will eventually show itself to be a fair improvement overall.

 

[nray93]

2 Things:
1.

Hm, an interesting concept.

I believe this deserves a chance. I would personally like to see this field-tested, see if it can prove itself worthy of staying in Massive.

Perhaps it might end up like deadbolt. Its first days were chaotic and caused misery and many, many missing diamonds(well, I suppose silver will fill this role xD), but will eventually show itself to be a fair improvement overall.

Click to shrink...

The good thing is that silver is a 100% renewable resource that will NEVER run out, so no permanent damages.

2.
I would like to hear the opinion of a game staff on this. Wheter or not this COULD be a possible future addition (or if there is a fatal flaw preventing it from being one) , what he/she generaly things about this and MAYBE even if/how I can improve this Idea.

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MonMarty