Salem's Lot Forbidden To Open Its Doors Again

[badbill089]

I was contacted Bye CnocBride today And was told That the rules had been amended to make it illegal to create a Faction For the sole purpose of creating markets. Although My faction Mostly consisted of role players I was told That Salem's lot violates this rule. I don't quite understand how we violate this rule considering we didn't solely exist for the shop But apparently We did. All that being said, I would like to thank all of you that Had done business in Salem's lot. After over 2 years of being open We are Closing the doors for the last time.

Sincerely, Badbill089

 

[Lizmun]

Oh nooo

 

[Legoclub22]

I was contacted Bye CnocBride today And was told That the rules had been amended to make it illegal to create a Faction For the sole purpose of creating markets. Although My faction Mostly consisted of role players I was told That Salem's lot violates this rule. I don't quite understand how we violate this rule considering we didn't solely exist for the shop But apparently We did. All that being said, I would like to thank all of you that Had done business in Salem's lot. After over 2 years of being open We are Closing the doors for the last time.

Sincerely, Badbill089

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F
I always went there when I wanted to find certain things.

Why not set up a different style marketplace in your faction? You could build a trade plaza which serves the same purpose.

 

[Mecharic]

You can build a faction town with the marketplace built into said town - it just can't be one single building complex that does nothing but sell stuff. It needs to be able to serve multiple purposes. I think. The rules aren't very clear on how that actually works. Maybe build a public darkroom below the shop and then you have multiple purposes...?

 

[Legoclub22]

You can build a faction town with the marketplace built into said town - it just can't be one single building complex that does nothing but sell stuff. It needs to be able to serve multiple purposes. I think. The rules aren't very clear on how that actually works. Maybe build a public darkroom below the shop and then you have multiple purposes...?

Click to shrink...

You could build a roleplay hotspot shopping mall.

 

[Naneko_x3]

I'd really like to see what staff thinks about this.
We (SalemsLot) weren't just a market.
All members except badbill were roleplayers and most of the roleplayers didn't even help our or rarely helped with the shop.


The shop just ran from badbill's hard work.
Bill didn't run the shop for money, nor for fame. It simply was an activity to him to waste some time having fun.
I won't tell the bit that i know about his real life, but i assume that it is the reason he sees fun within farming and trading with those resources. With this rule (which doesn't even completely apply to SalemsLot) staff took bill the last rest to even have fun playing here.
I think this rule was mostly set up to prevent players to get this rich ever again (while i still bet staff members will have their ways)
but preventing someone to get rich by such an efford that badbill put into his shop is just awful.
Since the only really running market was SalemsLot that bill ran, this rule was just set up against him and our faction.
Try to run the best running shop on such a server all alone by yourself. You'd probably give up just some days after you began. Just so you maybe notice his efford.

We weren't a market faction, we mostly were a roleplay faction.
Badbill even built a roleplay castle for the faction that took him 6 months and still wasn't completely finished.
Now the castle is deleted and all this work is gone plus we aren't even allowed to run this shop anymore to afford building such a place ever again.

The rule says:

Rules related to Faction Power & Claim

• Factions that exist solely as a market faction are not permitted.

Source

But since badbill was the only one running the shop and actually playing on the factions servers, while all other faction members were roleplaying in Regalia, how does this rule still apply?
We never even considered ourselves being just a market. We were a small community of people who enjoyed each others company, even though we mostly weren't even playing with each other. The members were always just talking, helping each other and generally mostly socializing instead of farming for the market.

So badbill was told that SalemsLot isn't allowed to become a market faction.
He asked if it was okay to open the shop, because he was the only one to run it and all other members were just roleplayers.
The answer was still a no.
This answer of the staff member isn't rule compilant, since SalemsLot isn't solely a market but majorly a roleplay faction. Even saying that we aren't allowed to be a market faction again is an impertinence because we never were a market faction due to the majority of members being roleplayers.

So bill in the end gave the ownership to Kakaio.
We will build up the market again, aswell as we will all set our roleplay surnames to Salemslot, so the faction can't even closely be considered a market but a roleplaying faction.
Kakaio agreed to take all the burden and punishments for himself, if staff will take action against the faction.
It won't be the right thing to take action against our faction anyways, since we aren't even closely acting against the rules.
If staff really wants to set up this rule to make our faction act against the rules, they would have to completely forbid markets from factions because since we're a roleplay faction, our market is completely rule compilant.
I also don't recommend MassiveCraft to forbid markets for factions completely, since it would destroy the faction server completely.
Staff knows this exactly, that's why the rule is written down like this, so it would just affect bill's shop (since there was no other shop like his).
By the case that the shop will be up again, i hope bill will be able to run it like before and the factions members won't face him leaving the server because staff is messing up the faction mode for him completely now.

Some last words to the staff members:
In reallife rich people also put hard efford into their work until they became what they are now.
They also have to do it fast, to be the first ones with their idea to get this high, or competitors will take over this place.
Same goes for badbill.
You can't put up some kind of economy where everyone is equal when some work hard and some do nothing but cry about not having this much.
The crying ones have to work to reach their goals. If they don't, then it's their problem.
But punishing the hard working people is just the wrong way.
Or would the high staff members, that worked really hard for their rank, like to loose their place just because the low ones argue over not being the same, although they don't even closely work as hard?

 

[Wumpatron]

I'd really like to see what staff thinks about this.
We (SalemsLot) weren't just a market.
All members except badbill were roleplayers and most of the roleplayers didn't even help our or rarely helped with the shop.


The shop just ran from badbill's hard work.
Bill didn't run the shop for money, nor for fame. It simply was an activity to him to waste some time having fun.
I won't tell the bit that i know about his real life, but i assume that it is the reason he sees fun within farming and trading with those resources. With this rule (which doesn't even completely apply to SalemsLot) staff took bill the last rest to even have fun playing here.
I think this rule was mostly set up to prevent players to get this rich ever again (while i still bet staff members will have their ways)
but preventing someone to get rich by such an efford that badbill put into his shop is just awful.
Since the only really running market was SalemsLot that bill ran, this rule was just set up against him and our faction.
Try to run the best running shop on such a server all alone by yourself. You'd probably give up just some days after you began. Just so you maybe notice his efford.

We weren't a market faction, we mostly were a roleplay faction.
Badbill even built a roleplay castle for the faction that took him 6 months and still wasn't completely finished.
Now the castle is deleted and all this work is gone plus we aren't even allowed anymore to run this shop, to afford building such a place ever again.

The rule says:

Rules related to Faction Power & Claim

• Factions that exist solely as a market faction are not permitted.

Source

But since badbill was the only one running the shop and actually playing on the factions servers, while all other faction members were roleplaying in Regalia, how does this rule still apply?
We never even considered ourselves being just a market. We were a small community of people who enjoyed each others company, even though we mostly weren't even playing on Massive with each other. The members were always talking, helping each other and generally mostly socializing than farming for the market.

So badbill was told that if SalemsLot would become a market faction, they would close it up or ban him.
He asked if it was okay to open the shop, because he was the only one to run it and all other members were just roleplayers.
The answer was still a no.
This answer of the staff member isn't rule compilant, since SalemsLot isn't solely a market but majorly a roleplay faction.

So bill in the end gave the ownership to Kakaio.
We will build up the market again, aswell as we will all set our surnames within the roleplay to Salemslot, so the faction can't even closely be considered a market but a roleplaying faction.
Kakaio agreed to take all the burden and punishments for himself, if staff will take action against the faction.
It won't be the right thing to take action against our faction because we aren't even closely acting against the rules.
If staff really wants to set up this rule to make our faction act against the rules, they would have to completely forbid markets from factions because since we're a roleplay faction, our market is completely rule compilant.
I don't recommend MassiveCraft to forbid markets for factions completely, since it would destroy the faction server completely.
They also exactly know this, that's why the rule is written down like this, so it would just affect bill's shop (since there was no other shop like his).
In the case the shop will be up again, i hope bill will be able to run his shop again and the factions members won't face him leaving the server because staff is messing up the faction mode for him completely now.

Some last words to the staff:
In reallife rich people also put hard efford into their work until they became what they are now.
They also have to do it fast, to be the first ones with their idea to get this high, or competitors will take over this place.
Same goes for badbill.
You can't put up some kind of economy where everyone is equal when some work hard and some do nothing but cry about not having this much.
The crying ones have to work to reach their goals. If they don't, then it's their problem.
But punishing the hard working people is just the wrong way.
Or would the high staff members, that worked really hard for their rank, like to loose their place just because the low ones argue over not being the same, although they don't even closely work as hard?

Click to shrink...

The argument isn't there that it is also a role play faction if the role play occurs in a Regalia. This is what I gathered from your explanation of things. That being said if you truly want it seen as a role play faction you should hold a higher portion of your role play there else its just a market faction with occasional role play. Make it more clear and you can make what you believe is true actually apparent instead of as a side thought, which is seen from the outside.

 

[Legoclub22]

I think that if you were to open salemslot as a roleplay area which doubles as a marketplace, you would be fine. You should really consider doing that.

 

[CnocBride]

Just because roleplayers exist in your faction doesn't make it right to call yourselves a Market and RP faction. Argost have roleplayers in them, my faction does too and you will never hear us call ourselves an "RP faction".

 

[Naneko_x3]

The argument isn't there that it is also a role play faction if the role play occurs in a Regalia. This is what I gathered from your explanation of things. That being said if you truly want it seen as a role play faction you should hold a higher portion of your role play there else its just a market faction with occasional role play. Make it more clear and you can make what you believe is true actually apparent instead of as a side thought, which is seen from the outside.

Click to shrink...

How much higher should it be? When our members are online, they're almost always roleplaying. It's a rare case that they are helping out Bill with the shop or playing factions (mostly the members were creating buildings and towns for the faction). The case is, that our name was known just from the shop. Maybe it will now be noticed in the roleplay, since we made up the decision to change our surnames to Salemslot aswell now.

 

[Naneko_x3]

Just because roleplayers exist in your faction doesn't make it right to call yourselves a Market and RP faction. Argost have roleplayers in them, my faction does too and you will never hear us call ourselves an "RP faction".

Click to shrink...

They don't just exist here, we're all roleplayers. Everyone except bill.

 

[Naneko_x3]

I think that if you were to open salemslot as a roleplay area which doubles as a marketplace, you would be fine. You should really consider doing that.

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This already happened with the roleplay castle that i mentioned. As i said this one is deleted now. The castle took Bill 6 months to be built. That work is completely gone now.

 

[MonMarty]

But since badbill was the only one running the shop and actually playing on the factions servers, while all other faction members were roleplaying in Regalia, how does this rule still apply?

Click to shrink...

Despite our policy not to reply to threads like these in general, and regardless of the obvious attempts to defame staff in your post, I'll comment in the context to this statement. If a faction contains members, which according to your own say, in survival only do one thing, being resources harvesting for the owner and spend their entire time in Regalia, then it is considered a no-man no-participation faction.

Your lack of understanding comes from not being able to understand the context of the rule. We believe that since the restart, we should keep certain excess behaviors of non-participant factions in check to ensure everyone is actually participating in Survival. Participation is counted as resource harvesting, raiding, building, using up resources, trading, and interfacing with the rest of the community in survival, discounting Regalia from the whole sphere.

We've taken actions against Alt Factions as well, which contain alt accounts for the sole purpose of holding onto a single aspect I.E a Darkroom or storage, which are also faction designs which we classify as non-participant to the Survival Experience. We consider non-participants to the Survival experience harmful to the community at large, in Salemslot's case because it artificially pushes down the prices for materials for everyone, because the members don't participate in the overarching survival experience and thus don't experience any of the activities or obligations that would normally stabilize the market value of an item cost. I think that with the AuctionHouse plugin, this is no longer that big of a deal, but I still support the underlying theme, in that we wish to use rules to enforce common and equal participation in the survival community. The situation would have been entirely different had Salemslot been mostly a roleplay faction with a roleplay town that saw daily use, which could be raided, and a market on the side.

Please understand that it is very important for us that all factions participate in the survival experience when they take up space within it, and affect others inside of it.

 

[Naneko_x3]

Despite our policy not to reply to threads like these in general, and regardless of the obvious attempts to defame staff in your post, I'll comment in the context to this statement. If a faction contains members, which according to your own say, in survival only do one thing, being resources harvesting for the owner and spend their entire time in Regalia, then it is considered a no-man no-participation faction.

Your lack of understanding comes from not being able to understand the context of the rule. We believe that since the restart, we should keep certain excess behaviors of non-participant factions in check to ensure everyone is actually participating in Survival. Participation is counted as resource harvesting, raiding, building, using up resources, trading, and interfacing with the rest of the community in survival, discounting Regalia from the whole sphere.

We've taken actions against Alt Factions as well, which contain alt accounts for the sole purpose of holding onto a single aspect I.E a Darkroom or storage, which are also faction designs which we classify as non-participant to the Survival Experience. We consider non-participants to the Survival experience harmful to the community at large, in Salemslot's case because it artificially pushes down the prices for materials for everyone, because the members don't participate in the overarching survival experience and thus don't experience any of the activities or obligations that would normally stabilize the market value of an item cost. I think that with the AuctionHouse plugin, this is no longer that big of a deal, but I still support the underlying theme, in that we wish to use rules to enforce common and equal participation in the survival community. The situation would have been entirely different had Salemslot been mostly a roleplay faction with a roleplay town that saw daily use, which could be raided, and a market on the side.

Please understand that it is very important for us that all factions participate in the survival experience when they take up space within it, and affect others inside of it.

Click to shrink...

We had three cities of which 2 were well used by the faction. We had a castle that wasn't completely finished but we all put efford into it, to finally publish it for even other people than our faction members. Sadly this castle was deleted before it was entirely usable for everyone. All these places of course could've been raided and had connections to the market.
The major problem in the survival experience wasn't the case that we weren't participating in survival features. That wasn't even closely the case. The problem with the survival within factions is the ally function. SalemsLot aswell as most other factions have no enemies but just allies, so how should possibly a survival experience arrive without any enemy? Killing mobs out in the wild is even easier than leaving the safe-zone areas within a dark room, so mobs also aren't real enemies there anymore. The reason there also was the too strong equipment that was obtained, either by our farms or by the donators who used the "4 All" options. Since farms aren't allowed anymore, the only option to stock up our shop would be going out into the wild and experience survival anyways. So if this rule was just set up to cause the players experience survival, then it was really unnecessary.
The rule should be explained more detailled with the main context of what it is supposed to cause.

"resource harvesting, raiding, building, using up resources, trading, and interfacing with the rest of the community in survival"
All these things applied to our faction aswell, just "interfacing with the rest of the community in survival" wasn't the case because we had just allies. Why don't you consider this function to be the problem? I personally suggest factions should have a maximum capacity of allies they could have, so they have to choose wisely and can't end up like we did.
I can say for myself, that i often wanted to have war or similar things with other factions and participate in this survival experience, but those things never happened due to having no enemies or any challenge.

That means if the players of SalemsLot would participate in survival, which we have to since farms as we had aren't allowed anymore, the shop would be rule compilant?

I want to apologize for defaming staff with my post aswell here.
I guess you can probably understand that i'm angered and frustrated of this change.

 

[Ninja124r]

Cnoc abouta knock massivecraft out of business

 

[MonMarty]

That means if the players of SalemsLot would participate in survival, which we have to since farms as we had aren't allowed anymore, the shop would be rule compilant?

Click to shrink...

The only requirement, is that it isn't just a shop faction. This means that it should be obvious to the staff who review it, that the faction participates in survival, and isn't just one guy running a square walmart which uses a bunch of roleplayers to sell under market value. Everything else that helps beyond that I.E limiting alliances and other ways to encourage survival participation is definitely something we can work on. The name Salemslot is not illegal, just the act of creating a faction purely for the purpose of it being a store without involving it in the community at large beyond selling items. I understand your frustration and don't hold it against you - That is why I am replying and trying to clarify after all.

 

[Naneko_x3]

I'm thankful for your replies. I guess since we now know the purpose of this rule, we can work out solutions within our faction to keep the shop and play by the staffs intention of this rule. I already put up some suggestions within the faction to farm within the wild or keep the farms limited. I also suggested the point to remove all allies but the ones who we really could consider allies. In addition I told them to take more action in faction PvP so we could prepare for it in the future. Right now things aren't set up anyways, so we're just mining and building most things up again.
Let's see what this change brings up. I would've personally liked to see some factions PvP with SalemsLot in the past to be honest.

 

[Genecide65]

Well this is sad and dumb

 

[badbill089]

The only requirement, is that it isn't just a shop faction. This means that it should be obvious to the staff who review it, that the faction participates in survival, and isn't just one guy running a square walmart which uses a bunch of roleplayers to sell under market value. Everything else that helps beyond that I.E limiting alliances and other ways to encourage survival participation is definitely something we can work on. The name Salemslot is not illegal, just the act of creating a faction purely for the purpose of it being a store without involving it in the community at large beyond selling items. I understand your frustration and don't hold it against you - That is why I am replying and trying to clarify after all.

Click to shrink...

The faction was never intended to be a faction Created for the only purpose of being a shop. (https://embral.wixsite.com/salems-lot-blog/lore) The shop was created As an afterthought for the community therefore Most things where bought For just a few regals less than they were sold. There is no way I could have supplied all of the demand for the shop By myself And have seen on multiple occasions even staff selling to the shops. On the other hand you pay the bills So therefore I have Relinquished My title as owner To salem's lot. ......... Afterthought. Even you profited From the shop Although you may not know it But for the 3 years I was playing on the server 98% of the time I was premium.

 

[MyCatBubbles]

I always supported Salemslot and I always will continue to. Filthy commies killing my pure capitalism hmph

But staff are seriously dumb if they don't realize that salemslot on old massive wasn't just a market faction. You legit had a portal hall leading to castles, bases etc. just your shop was the main attraction. @badbill089 keep making salemslot regardless of what staff think, make salemslot what it normally was in old massive as salemslot was much more then a market faction, I'll be helping you all the way if you need it. Just tell me when and where, I hope you stay.

And honestly there has to be much more defined rules on what makes a market faction a market faction. Is a market faction a faction that solely sells goods? Is a market faction a faction that has farms/housing for members but has their shop as a main attraction? We need some clarity, hell my faction could be considered a market faction as mostly all I do is work to sell stuff.

 

[Sephite]

The faction was never intended to be a faction Created for the only purpose of being a shop. (https://embral.wixsite.com/salems-lot-blog/lore) The shop was created As an afterthought for the community therefore Most things where bought For just a few regals less than they were sold. There is no way I could have supplied all of the demand for the shop By myself And have seen on multiple occasions even staff selling to the shops. On the other hand you pay the bills So therefore I have Relinquished My title as owner To salem's lot. ......... Afterthought. Even you profited From the shop Although you may not know it But for the 3 years I was playing on the server 98% of the time I was premium.

Click to shrink...

It's nice to see that you want to be more than just a market, as the opening post in Massive Marketplace suggested. I look forward to re-evaluate your faction once you are ready.

I always supported Salemslot and I always will continue to. Filthy commies killing my pure capitalism hmph

But staff are seriously dumb if they don't realize that salemslot on old massive wasn't just a market faction. You legit had a portal hall leading to castles, bases etc. just your shop was the main attraction. @badbill089 keep making salemslot regardless of what staff think, make salemslot what it normally was in old massive as salemslot was much more then a market faction, I'll be helping you all the way if you need it. Just tell me when and where, I hope you stay.

And honestly there has to be much more defined rules on what makes a market faction a market faction. Is a market faction a faction that solely sells goods? Is a market faction a faction that has farms/housing for members but has their shop as a main attraction? We need some clarity, hell my faction could be considered a market faction as mostly all I do is work to sell stuff.

Click to shrink...

The only requirement, is that it isn't just a shop faction. This means that it should be obvious to the staff who review it, that the faction participates in survival, and isn't just one guy running a square walmart which uses a bunch of roleplayers to sell under market value. Everything else that helps beyond that I.E limiting alliances and other ways to encourage survival participation is definitely something we can work on.

Click to shrink...

 

[Kerfloosh]

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

The staff, Cnoc in this case, removed your faction due to being a market faction. You say you are a faction of roleplayers, wherein RP occurs within the faction (outside of Regalia) itself multiple times a week.

Is this accurate?

EDIT: Are plans are being made to have places to RP as well? (This would be homes, a tavern, keep, etc.)

 

[CnocBride]

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

The staff, Cnoc in this case, removed your faction due to being a market faction. You say you are a faction of roleplayers, wherein RP occurs within the faction (outside of Regalia) itself multiple times a week.

Is this accurate?

Click to shrink...

The decision to oppose SalemsLot was based off the rules and after internal discussion. I was just the one who communicated that decision, not the sole staff member that ruled on this.

 

[MyCatBubbles]

@Sephite I was referring to a more global fix in the rule page that outlines and defines what a 'market faction' is. Not every person that would like to open up a more market based faction is essentially going to open this thread up and say "yep, thats how its done". This only answers salemlots individual case. If there was a rule page that outlined things properly to a fine point this thread probably wouldn't have had to be opened.

 

[Winterless]

Just because roleplayers exist in your faction doesn't make it right to call yourselves a Market and RP faction. Argost have roleplayers in them, my faction does too and you will never hear us call ourselves an "RP faction".

Click to shrink...

Other people call Argost an rp faction thoo

(kinda accurate at this point ngl)

 

[Kakaio]

Anyways, Bill has decided to leave the server and passed the faction to me. We'll try to convince him to return as we need his help and lead. Meanwhile we will continue with the same plan, rebuild salemslot's shop, farms, housing, etc. If later staff thinks we're only focusing on having and controling a shop, staff can speak directly with me as i will take full responsibility. This won't be the end, just a rough start really.

 

[badbill089]

It's nice to see that you want to be more than just a market, as the opening post in Massive Marketplace suggested. I look forward to re-evaluate your faction once you are ready.

Click to shrink...

Although we were known for our shop we were always More than just a market faction. Do you think we would have put in the time and effort To create this website if we were just a Market faction. (https://embral.wixsite.com/salems-lot-blog/lore) I will not put in the time and effort Rebuilding the faction Just for you guys to decide it is still at market Faction And tear it down.

 

[Mojavens]

Although we were known for our shop we were always More than just a market faction. Do you think we would have put in the time and effort To create this website if we were just a Market faction. (https://embral.wixsite.com/salems-lot-blog/lore) I will not put in the time and effort Rebuilding the faction Just for you guys to decide it is still at market Faction And tear it down.

Click to shrink...

Honestly all you gotta do is not make it look like a Costco wholesale. I'd suggest you make a town plaza and just have stalls selling items. (I think this has to do more with making your build look medieval themed.)

 

[MyCatBubbles]

Honestly all you gotta do is not make it look like a Costco wholesale. I'd suggest you make a town plaza and just have stalls selling items. (I think this has to do more with making your build look medieval themed.)

Click to shrink...

Salemslot should just make their shop underground as im pretty sure its legal to do whatever you want underground. I think this is how it was like on old massive with their shop. If they just do what they did on old massive (have a big faction shop yet also have their own castles/cities/recruitment) they should have no reason to not be told that they can't remake their shop as its completely legal. Just because salemslot had a good rap for being that reliable market source does not mean that they personally themselves are a full on market faction.

 

[Zacatero]

If they just do what they did on old massive (have a big faction shop yet also have their own castles/cities/recruitment) they should have no reason to not be told that they can't remake their shop as its completely legal

Click to shrink...

Nope. @Mojaven is correct

Honestly all you gotta do is not make it look like a Costco wholesale. I'd suggest you make a town plaza and just have stalls selling items. (I think this has to do more with making your build look medieval themed.)

Click to shrink...

 

[Last_Link]

I don't see how having a market faction is a problem. They have to work to set up the market, manage prices, harvest resources and other stuff. To just remove that because they aren't raided or because it changes the mineman dollar a bit is pretty stupid. Salemslot was used by players for years why is it just suddenly a problem?