Rp Points System

Discussion in 'Feature & Idea Discussion - Archive' started by 1000phoenix, Sep 11, 2014.

?

Point system?

  1. Yes!

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  2. No...

    18 vote(s)
    72.0%
  3. Needs more work/explaining

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%
  1. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    (I posted this here because I had no idea where else to put it. Move me if it doesn't fit here please XD)
    Sooo I had an idea to prevent god RP and Over powered characters. Why not include a point system?

    How it works:
    Every character application gets a certain amount of points to put towards certain aspects on their character (pretty straight forward I'm sure everyone has heard of this kind of system). Certain points pertain to certain levels of training and every character has a predetermined amount of points to spend when being made. Certain races get more points towards certain abilities and there will be some extra abilities that will add or take away points to certain abilities (similar to traits). Now when a character gets into a battle these stats will take a massive effect on the battle.

    For example: Character 1 has 5 points of strength for being an orc and character 2 has 3 points of strength for being a human. Orc smashes human because human has less strength points during the block.

    Preventing God RP: This idea prevents god RP by keeping characters from doing what ever they want.

    Preventing Overpowered characters: This is easily explained. If the character has the points the character is strong. If not then you don't have an argument
     
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  2. Billy_Rage

    Billy_Rage The heart of a lover, the soul of a writer
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    I don't think this is a good idea, most god RPers do not have approved characters or care about the forums. Also this will slow down RP as people check up on apps to know the points of others. And finally staff and other RPers reveiw character and point out if they are overpowered already.
     
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  3. Kezlok

    Kezlok Spooky

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    I wouldn't really call myself a roleplayers but couldn't you just use the same principle as the current IG premium character card to check another player's points? (If it ever would turn into reality)
     
  4. Billy_Rage

    Billy_Rage The heart of a lover, the soul of a writer
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    You could but player cards are prem only, adding more cards and whatnot will just be confusing.
     
  5. Kezlok

    Kezlok Spooky

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    I don't see how right clicking on a player is confusing... Explain more please?
     
  6. Billy_Rage

    Billy_Rage The heart of a lover, the soul of a writer
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    No the player points and player cards could would be different, due to the fact that player cards are prem only.
     
  7. LadyTeddington

    LadyTeddington Teddie Turncoat

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    I mean no disrespect but this is kind of strange, it's like set in stone kind of thing going on here. I think RP should be more fluid and unpredictable. In your example, you said the Orc smashed the human because it had more strength points, but it could be that the human runs away, maybe he cast magic?

    I'm pretty sure I missed something, but that's just what I thought about your idea. Nice suggestion though!
     
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  8. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    Good point but you forget theres other traits. If said human had higher agility than the orc then the human can choose to move out of the way. If the human had a magic higher than the orc then human can choose a magic ability to use against the orc. Im not very good at explaining ideas sooo yea feel free to ask questions so I can expand on this for others.

    Another good example. I had a character that was pretty agile. In a fight, alot of people complained that "you cant dodge these attack forever" when in reality he probably could. The current way is more opinion than fact which leaves alot of room for too much debate when in an rp fight.
     
    #8 1000phoenix, Sep 11, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  9. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    Why are the player cards prem only? Dont all players need to know information on others? The system can use player cards though or something similar (mabye have a non prem option). Also the system doesnt neccesarily need to use player applications. It can be just an imgame thing with no app that allows others to see the characters stats. If someone chooses to not put them in place before rping then ignore them and suggest they set their rp stats. Its like an ingame character application.
     
  10. starkiller_117

    starkiller_117 Celestin Albain Deodat, local rodent.
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    Oh god, I can already see it

    "I have 8 attack points, of course I can kill this entire group of humans in the middle of the city"
     
  11. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    well...lets not go that far XD. Your actions still take apart in the rp the points just help others determine what your actually capable of. One person will always find it hard to defend against 2. Attacker blocks one mans attack. Second man goes and stabs man in the back. He didnt have high enough agility to block the second because he spent all his points on that attack ability. It self balances a character
     
  12. starkiller_117

    starkiller_117 Celestin Albain Deodat, local rodent.
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    Eh, personally I see nothing wrong with the current system. Play to your characters abilities, don't be afraid to call out god rp or report it if need be, and you're good to go.
     
  13. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    thats the thing. The current system is up to opinion. Player 1 has some sword training and player 2 is a pirate. Well...whos training is better? In my experience opinions dont work as well as fact. It leads to an argument in rp which ruins the experience for everyone (mabye not all but some of them). With this system we can see whos training was better. Pirate has 4 points sword training player 1 has 3 points sword training oh pirate is better mabye player 1 can use other skills to beat him.
     
  14. starkiller_117

    starkiller_117 Celestin Albain Deodat, local rodent.
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    It wouldent just be "pirate and person with sword training" it would be determined lot, and I mean Lots of other circumstances. Are both armed? What races are each? Which had more years of training? Does the enviorment favour one over the other? The current system gives equal opportunities to all sides so long as they choose to take them.
     
  15. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    The actions in rp are still yours. Things like rain for example. Person slips because he is clumsy...well my system wouldnt determine that. This system organizes a persons strengths and weaknesses. Person is armed and pirate isnt. person uses sword and slashes pirates arm because with out a sword pirate has no sword ability currently.
     
  16. Tra_kad

    Tra_kad Massives biggest Adventurer and Conspiracy Maker

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    ...Am I the only one that likes this idea?... I think with a bit more kinks worked out, like the god RPers not listening to the fourms and what not, I feel like this could work quite well... Of course it could also kill everyone but, you know, win some, lose some. Maybe it could be a thing placed directly inside the game, like when you first log on, there was this sorta dream, entrance-y sorta sequence that I remember from a older time (I don't know if this has changed from later updates, more newby players, can you confirm?) and maybe if they added in a sort of option thing like "Do you wish to learn about RP or no?" And then learning about the RP rules of the server, then getting a option to make a official char, which gives you link to the char application.
    I dunno. I just typed in the first idea that came to my head. I know what I'm talking about dangit.
     
  17. Cruallassar

    Cruallassar The shadow of power

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    Ok, let me be the second to say, yes I like this idea. It could use some more thinking out, but overall, this is a good idea.
    Let me also say that I don't think it should be implemented. Good idea notwithstanding, it won't work, for two reasons. First reason has already been brought up, the current application is so extensive that no one who uses it will likely ever god-rp or any other problem. The staff are very good at what they do...some could say too good...so anyone who would be using this system wouldn't need to use this system.
    The second reason is that every character is different. Some orcs are stronger then others, some elves might not be good at combat, etc. Now the obvious answer to this is not all the points need to be used, and everyone can use their points on something different, but not only do these points not dictate everything, but the character traits (not the plugin) could easily exceed the number of points you have to spend. My character, through a whole lot of training and many years of experience, could easily use all his points on his archery, but wouldn't have any left for his duel-wielding sword abilities. (That sounds so much like SAO...) So although I love the idea, I don't think it should be implemented, for those reasons. Nice idea though.
     
  18. starkiller_117

    starkiller_117 Celestin Albain Deodat, local rodent.
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    The fact remains that from what I've seen (Or failed to see) fails to account for weapons, armor, stamina, general cunning or intelligence in a situation. If you could prove to me a less confusing system than " my agility is x but I lack stamina so I can run all day' or " I have a strength of 6 so of course I ignore your armor" than this would appeal more to me.
     
  19. Johto_Jo

    Johto_Jo Irresponsible Father

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    I HAVE AN IDEA!

    If you want to win, just fight me. ou o I always lose >:}
     
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  20. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    Quick reply to everyone. Certain races have extra points to certain abilities. Orcs have high strength, elves have high archery, and so on and if elf uses dual swords he wouldnt have to spend as many points on archery because thats a preset skill for the race. And weapons will only allow use for these abilities. Said elf forgets his bow at home...well i would say elf wouldnt be able to use his high archery skill dont you agree? And i do agree every character is different and this system allows that. Its your basic rp stat point system.
     
  21. Cruallassar

    Cruallassar The shadow of power

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    Then for the purposes of this, my character is human.
    Someone also brought up armor, that would do different things to this system.
    And this still doesn't address the necessity. The RP application already has something slightly like this, where a character can only have a certain number of specific skills, and has to have different strengths and weaknesses to go with them. Just with that, this idea is rendered unusable.
     
  22. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    I think i see what your getting at. Armor and weapons are different for every character. from what i was once told weapons and armor are pretty much limited to minecraft enchantments (or atleast thats what ive been told). That alone gives us base stats for certain pieces of armor. Certain pieces of armor will give you more defensive points towards a block but only in that localized area. (I.e. shoulder pads cannot prevent a leg injury.) Some of this is going to have to be word of mouth based on a predetermined set of rules. A player has base stats when he adds armor those base stats rise according to predetermined rules. Player has a base defence stat of 3. Player wears a shouler pad which the rules state shoulder pads add 3 points to local defence. Shoulder gets those 3 local points the rest doesnt. Shoulder strikes of 6 or less gets blocked. Strikes of 3 or less gets blocked anywhere else.

    As for the current system. As i keep saying everything in the current system is mainly a players opinion. Two players say they have training in swords. Both can say their training is better. Sooo who is right?
     
  23. starkiller_117

    starkiller_117 Celestin Albain Deodat, local rodent.
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    This raises the question: would a new plugin that adds points for each type of armor to each part or the body be worth the time coding while the current system is perfectly fine? It seems that when the different types of armor are added, along with the countless number of weapons, this point system gets needlessly messy.
     
  24. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    No coding needed. Just base stats viewed by player card and a predetermined set of rules for different equipment and enchantments that adds or reduces the players base stats.
     
  25. starkiller_117

    starkiller_117 Celestin Albain Deodat, local rodent.
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    Enchantments do not effect in character weapons I believe. There's still the problem that there is no set weapons commonly used: are staff expected to go through the hundreds of different weapons used in rp to determine points in an attempt to replace a system that already works?
     
  26. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    Sword: base stats +4
    Knife: base stats +2 -3 range
    And so on and so on
    Weapon abilities is where it gets tricky like i said ive been told these stay with in the range of minecraft enchants
    Base enchant power 1: +1 to weapon stats.
    And so on and so on.
     
  27. UrsaMajor

    UrsaMajor The sandwich guy.
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    The only thing I would change to combat RP is an optional dice system, that being beside the point, I believe there was a thread awhile back about new character policies and whatnot.
     
  28. Cruallassar

    Cruallassar The shadow of power

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    Still problematic. The first thing is that Minecraft enchantments are not lore compatible, so that is out. Same with diamond armor.
    Second, the minecraft armor is not the only armor in roleplay. In Minecraft, a person might have simple iron armor, but in roleplay, they might have forearm and leg greaves and a breastplate made by the finest dwarven smiths, as an example. Plus it would very likely not be in armor, but in their MC skin. A lot of this is based on good roleplay, a good roleplayer (one who might use this system) doesn't need it, they can simply roleplay their character's defense or lack thereof. As I said, the bad roleplayers wouldn't use it. Finally, this whole stat system seems detrimental. If I am engaged in heated roleplay combat, I shouldn't have to take two minutes off to look up the tables and see, "Ok, he has an attack of 2, if I block it with my shoulder guard, will it be successful? Lets see...shoulder guard has a defense of 3...what was his attack again? Ok..." And then make my reply. As I said once again, a good roleplayer wouldn't need it, they would be able to roleplay their combat perfectly well without the extra complexity.

    As for the current system with your example, the person who has the better training doesn't matter. They both have training. They both say it is good. Who cares which is better? Have them fight it out for Estel's sake. Training doesn't matter for how effective one's attacks are, only for reaction time and ability, which I defy you to create a system to moderate. (I don't think it can be done, other then good player roleplay.) Roleplay should not be based on numbers and stats. Yes it relies on player opinion, but it also relies on common sense. My character isn't the strongest with a blade, I can't simply block an orc axe. I know that. So I use common sense, and either avoid blocking his attacks directly, or I get wounded when I do by my own blade being pushed into my face. Most people can do this fairly well. If an extra strong human knight is in a blade lock with an orc, who wins? Player opinion. But it is the player's choice. The human player can decide to be pushed back bit by bit, then release the blade lock, spin around, and slash at the orc from behind, or he can choose to strain really hard and leave it to the orc to decide what to do. Remember, yes this is player opinion, but it is also two players' opinions. And if one decides to do something that manipulates the other, it is god roleplay, and the other can object.
     
  29. TheFinitePeach

    TheFinitePeach The World's First Sentient Fruit

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    *Quickly spams all his points into strength and agility and then goes on to murder everyone in the Tavern*

    "Muahahahahahahahahaaaaa"

    wait.... this is supposed to prevent God RPing?

    No but seriously I think that the current MassiveAbilities policy thing already sortof does this, because your character can specialize in one or two abilities but isn't really good at any others.
     
  30. LadyTeddington

    LadyTeddington Teddie Turncoat

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    Uh, I don't know. Ijust have a more boardgame kind of feeling with this idea, as in that's how RP would get. I like the system now and I honestly prefer it to stay that way!~
     
  31. BboyMVB

    BboyMVB Captain of the Maelstrom, Savior of Regalia
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    This seems a lot like a DnD character sheet point system, which Im not a fan of for massive since such things often include a superfluous amount of dicerolls and chance to get results through combat and even menial tasks. Not to mention clothing and weapons and etc etc would seemingly effect stat points, making them very static and hard to figure out. Good for a dice game not so much for massive style of rp
     
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  32. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    Really...dice? Why does everyone think dice XD. First off no dice, no...bad dice thinkers. but the system is based off of something I found on the internet...uh...pathfinders is what I got the idea from (basically I took the dice out of it) Im still reading so the system is still underwork...in my head. Mabye I should take notes or something. And as for the minecraft enchantments not being lore compliant that was just what I was told, didn't know otherwise. The armor? I know what your getting at I had a thylan that used Metal kneepads, arm braces and shoulder guards so yea I thought of that too, the system will still work, thats why I said local stats. And for different types of armor like dwarven smithed armor like you said, there could be a whole lore system on technology (I know there's a textbook in the lore about dwarven tech). And taking two minutes thinking about how to attack based on their armor? Think of it this way, you come across someone with shoulder pads and you notice it...where are you going to attack? certainly not at his shoulders so you take a swing at his legs and there you go...base stats. and as for thefinitepeache's response...ehm...Elven archer with high accuracy from a good distance. (no observation skills wouldn't notice the shot)
     
  33. Cruallassar

    Cruallassar The shadow of power

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    Again...good roleplaying, no debate. Bad roleplaying, wouldn't matter anyway. Somewhere in the middle roleplaying...will hopefully become good roleplaying.
    Roleplay shouldn't have to rely on numbers to determine things. In my experience, these kinds of limitations inhibit roleplay. The dice is an obvious example, but you don't include it in this system. But the better of a roleplayer...in fact, the better of a roleplay fighter the character, the more systems like this inhibit. For example, you cite that if shoulders are protected, then you strike at the other person's legs. The other person could block it with their sword. There should be no debate, they blocked it, and it is not included in your system. You strike at their neck, they might duck under the attack. There can be debate in both of these, but your system does not cover it, and it doesn't need covering. That is how a lot of RP combat is conducted, attack and reaction. Your system dictates that each fighter have different skill levels, but it is entirely possible that skill has nothing to do with the outcome of a battle, and a less skilled fighter wins through luck or environment. But in reality, skill levels cannot be rated with more then general bad, adequate, and good designations, which don't matter, it is the combat that matters.

    I don't know what instances you've had where there is debate, but usually there isn't. For most good RPers, there is no debate. For god-RPers, there is the debate that "you can't do that" which is not solved by this system. In the situation I described, yes it relies on opinion. But there is still no debate, or should not be. What happens if neither side want to disengage? Then the sword lock goes on. And on. And on. Until one of them has the sense to make a different reaction. But no disagreement unless one of them disagrees, which they shouldn't. I really can't see any cause for debate at all, outside either A: god-RP, or B: someone doing something they shouldn't be able to, which is almost the same thing. But again, if no one does that, then there are no problems. The points in the end really don't mean anything with your system, exactly as Mr Peach said, you have to use some common sense.

    To sum up, I think this system puts too much complication on things that really only a few people have problems with, and solves those problems for even fewer. I think it inhibits roleplay for good RPers, and puts rules on things that in the end, really should be common sense. (Peach's example, and your counter) I think that this system puts roleplay in the terms of most MMORPGs, where things like a simple Star Wars soldier can beat a lower level Jedi in single combat can happen.
     
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  34. 1000phoenix

    1000phoenix Master of IMPs

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    The system does solve that "You cant do that" debate. By adding a number that his higher or lower I now have something to back me up saying "Yes my character can do that" or "No you cant do that". By adding facts to back yourself up (not opinions) then there's nothing that they can do about it. if your right your right if your wrong your wrong. You say it will slow RP down by having to put some thought into it but uh...don't you do that anyway? Its not complication its simple addition and small numbers. If I wanted it to be complicated I would put Calculus into the mix. For the most part its an actual ability set saying ok this character can actually block this and the debate stops there. In the current system alot of things are left to common sense, but we must admit that not everyone is good at RP and were all only human after all. The current system would only completely work in a perfect world and such a thing does not exist. And as for your Jedi Example, whos to say that wouldn't happen? Whos to say that Soldier character didn't have the skills to defeat that Lower Jedi?

    ((pfft winner rating? really? This is just helping me refine my system))
     
  35. Cruallassar

    Cruallassar The shadow of power

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    I will say that rating a character's skills as a number from something to something might be an addition worth considering. However, there shouldn't be any "You can do that.", unless the person is doing something physically impossible, or is overpowered, which means his character didn't go through the review process or the person is not RPing him very well. Neither of these will be stopped with your system, or without debate, because they are not following the rules to begin with. Another person can't know how good my character is at swordplay without reading my character app, which most likely won't be doing, especially not with every person I RP with. Therefore, if my character draws his sword and makes a lightning-fast slash at your character's neck, you can't say with any knowledge that my character can't do that. (He can, by the way.) Unless it is not possible, for example the two are in a confined space without much room to move. I can't think of anyone who would RP in mining tunnels... Or unless the person has exhibited multiple overpowered skills, like taking a bow and shooting people through the head before they can escape immediately after besting 6 members of the Regalian Guard in combat. It is usually fairly obvious when someone is doing something they shouldn't, but there should be no problems up to that point. Most good RPers can roll with whatever RP they're given, unless it is, again, not possible or overpowered.
    You say it is necessary to have facts to back up character skills. However, you overlook the existing ones. The existing system has a very stringent method for judging character abilities, and characters should not be deviating from the skills they list on their applications. Points just add a localized source for the same information, in a less flexible manner. But really, why the heck would anyone be debating about someone blocking their sword? Unless the person is a frail little elf and has stated so before, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to, from the blocked's perspective. The current system would only work perfectly in a perfect world, but right now, imperfectly works pretty well too. I know I have never had a problem with whether my character can do something or not, and I have never had to tell someone they can't do something, (with the exception of an idiot troll god-rper once...he didn't listen, and I didn't care.)
    And as for my Jedi example, yes of course there might be a soldier who could defeat a less skilled Jedi. But levels don't say everything. That Jedi might be RPing as a very skilled Jedi while he gets his levels up. And really...a blaster against a lightsaber and the force? Maybe the blaster would win one out of a hundred times...

    ((Ratings are opinions...))
     
  36. Ha5h

    Ha5h Sleeping Giant

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    Moved to Feature and Idea Discussion.
     
  37. Laach

    Laach I'm not wearing a scouter.

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    Because if you God roleplay, you are literally Hitler.

    There is no such thing as a system that can determine how powerful you are or how well you will stand in a fight.

    Take Dragon Ball Z for example. The main reason "powerlevels" existed was so they could show how unreliable they were at calculating the strength of the enemy. The bad guys would underestimate the good guy's strength because of how much they would hold back.

    If you bet your chances of winning on what you see instead of what you might see, you will never truly win.
     
  38. Cruallassar

    Cruallassar The shadow of power

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    Not explained the greatest, but that is another good point that I should have made. Skill levels have no bearing on the specific moves you made. A skill 5 swordsman can still capitalize on a mistake made by a skill 20 swordsman, and with the same result. There are far too many variables in RP to limit by skill levels.
     
  39. _Dewlox_

    _Dewlox_ Orcish Tinker

    Joined:
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    She's right. She always does. No offence femal <3
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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