Archived Removing/changing Resistance Potions

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thor5648

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This thread is to discuss the necessary change of resistance potions.

So let me start off by saying this, I have a whole potion machine set up to brew resistance pots with no effort by the user, and I probably have one of the highest number of resistance potions on the server in my potion storage.

Resistance potions are essentially little god apples, when you pop one you immediately become nearly invincible. I use them frequently when I am about to, and I EASILY can survive a 1vs2-5 for the minute that I have it on, with only having to use a few health potions. Resistance potions should be made into say something else that would be hard to obtain, for example maybe weakness II or nausea3 for 10 seconds, or maybe even healthboost2.5 potions for a minute. These are just some examples of what resistance potions can, and should be made into, because right now these are basically potions that can make you unbeatable when you use one, and they need to go.
 
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thor5648 said:
I have a whole potion machine set up to brew resistance pots with no effort by the user
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I would like to point out that you still have to work hard to get to the point where you are able to make said machines. For me, it took brewing for an army to get there, the resistance pot production requires effort before production of the machine, thus, not effortless. Furthermore, it is arguable that said machine would actually be an exploitation of a bug in mcMMO since there is code in the plugin designed to stop people from automating mcMMO pots pending config options. Now, I know what work around you are using, but as MassiveCraft has enabled said config option, this workaround could easily be considered an exploitation of the mechanics.

thor5648 said:
Resistance potions should be made into say something else that would be hard to obtain, for example maybe weakness II or nausea3 for 10 seconds, or maybe even healthboost2.5 potions for a minute.
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Based upon the examples you are providing, it seems that you are suggesting that the 1k alchemy unlock should be worthless. On top of this, it would require modification of mcMMO's handling of pots. What the system currently does is just use existing items in the game that have not been added to the registry but are still present through data value mapping (read up on potion ids).
I suspect that you don't have quite as much knowledge about potions as you think you do. It is not possible to have a health boost level 2.5 as the amplifier field is an integer. Furthermore, nausea does not change at all with tier changes.

And now, I shall give my own point of view on the matter. Resistance pots require a time commitment to be able to make, and the people who have made that commitment will be very upset, to say the least, about having the effort go to waste. If you are able to sustain a high usage rate of resistance pots, then go for it, that means that you have a working system. Although you will find that not everyone will fight while you have the effect. Vamps can easily outrun and fight when the potion effect ends, and keep in mind that armor still breaks and other people can still obtain the pots, there is no invulnerability.
 
thor5648 said:
This thread is to discuss the necessary change of resistance potions.

So let me start off by saying this, I have a whole potion machine set up to brew resistance pots with no effort by the user, and I probably have one of the highest number of resistance potions on the server in my potion storage.

Resistance potions are essentially little god apples, when you pop one you immediately become nearly invincible. I use them frequently when I am about to, and I EASILY can survive a 1vs2-5 for the minute that I have it on, with only having to use a few health potions. Resistance potions should be made into say something else that would be hard to obtain, for example maybe weakness II or nausea3 for 10 seconds, or maybe even healthboost2.5 potions for a minute. These are just some examples of what resistance potions can, and should be made into, because right now these are basically potions that can make you unbeatable when you use one, and they need to go.
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TheComputerGeek2 said:
I would like to point out that you still have to work hard to get to the point where you are able to make said machines. For me, it took brewing for an army to get there, the resistance pot production requires effort before production of the machine, thus, not effortless. Furthermore, it is arguable that said machine would actually be an exploitation of a bug in mcMMO since there is code in the plugin designed to stop people from automating mcMMO pots pending config options. Now, I know what work around you are using, but as MassiveCraft has enabled said config option, this workaround could easily be considered an exploitation of the mechanics.


Based upon the examples you are providing, it seems that you are suggesting that the 1k alchemy unlock should be worthless. On top of this, it would require modification of mcMMO's handling of pots. What the system currently does is just use existing items in the game that have not been added to the registry but are still present through data value mapping (read up on potion ids).
I suspect that you don't have quite as much knowledge about potions as you think you do. It is not possible to have a health boost level 2.5 as the amplifier field is an integer. Furthermore, nausea does not change at all with tier changes.

And now, I shall give my own point of view on the matter. Resistance pots require a time commitment to be able to make, and the people who have made that commitment will be very upset, to say the least, about having the effort go to waste. If you are able to sustain a high usage rate of resistance pots, then go for it, that means that you have a working system. Although you will find that not everyone will fight while you have the effect. Vamps can easily outrun and fight when the potion effect ends, and keep in mind that armor still breaks and other people can still obtain the pots, there is no invulnerability.
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I see both of your points and to be honest would rather have resistance pots enabled. They save lives like mine who can't always pvp good because of their fps. So to counter bad fps on the battle field I can sometimes use my wealth, which I damn right earned myself.

Anyways, yeah that's just my opinion... Thanks for tagging me @TheComputerGeek2
 
Disagree. I don't even use them anymore because they were just a waste of inventory space and I saw little difference when fighting with them. Absorption 2 spash potions on the other hand are super effective.
 
So what you're saying is, The premium 10%... Plus the Resistance 15% PLUS the claimed land 10% Meaning I take 35% LESS dmg in combat is Op? I agree.
 
I'd say keep resistance brew able and make it way harder to get the ingredients. I personally think everything should be the same because its like an award for the person having 1K alchemy. So as their reward they should be able to brew resistance <3
 
I'd like to point out that 1: 1k alchemy is ridiculously hard to achieve (Doing /mctop alchemy should prove this), and 2: Resistance 1 only reduces damage by 20%, and lasts one minute. This, in the scheme of things, with the prem buff, axeresist/swordresist isn't much. For example, say you were hitting someone with 14 hearts (ie using healthboost2), and were doing two hearts per hit. Basic math shows that it would take 7 hits to kill said person, assuming they didn't health pot or use another means of regenerating health. Now, taking the effect of resistance one pots, this person's damage intake would be reduced by 20%, so two hearts per hit would turn into 1.6 hearts of damage per hit. 14/1.6=8.75. This means that it would take an extra two hits to kill this person, which in pvp isn't really a significant number of hits. Now obviously there are some flaws with this math, such as crit hits, actual damage taken, various traits and such, but the idea is still the same. So, yes they do act as slight buffs, however due to their wide availability there's not really anything stopping you from using them as well, but from what I can tell, that's not the complaint in question. What is being questioned is the possibility of dying in pvp while using these pots, and in my opinion, these pots are not enough to prevent death, only give a relatively small buff to the user.
 
thor5648 said:
This thread is to discuss the necessary change of resistance potions.

So let me start off by saying this, I have a whole potion machine set up to brew resistance pots with no effort by the user, and I probably have one of the highest number of resistance potions on the server in my potion storage.

Resistance potions are essentially little god apples, when you pop one you immediately become nearly invincible. I use them frequently when I am about to, and I EASILY can survive a 1vs2-5 for the minute that I have it on, with only having to use a few health potions. Resistance potions should be made into say something else that would be hard to obtain, for example maybe weakness II or nausea3 for 10 seconds, or maybe even healthboost2.5 potions for a minute. These are just some examples of what resistance potions can, and should be made into, because right now these are basically potions that can make you unbeatable when you use one, and they need to go.
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Additionally, since resistance potions are mcMMO pots, it is impossible to make a potion machine that can make them with no effort by the user, as you must put in the ingredients by hand. This can be reduced, but not totally eliminated.
 
Sorry thor but the other day when I said #bringbackgapples you said this ^ and now you want resistance pots to be removed or changed when you know just like me that gapples are way more op than resistance pots.
-1 for multiple reasons.
- stimulates the economy (people buying gold/apples)
- less op than god apples
- part of mcmmo
- cant brew them automatically
 
kevencolis said:
Sorry thor but the other day when I said #bringbackgapples you said this ^ and now you want resistance pots to be removed or changed when you know just like me that gapples are way more op than resistance pots.
-1 for multiple reasons.
- stimulates the economy (people buying gold/apples)
- less op than god apples
- part of mcmmo
- cant brew them automatically
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I hate to say it, but he actually can brew them automatically, to an extent, however, doing so involves abusing a bug in one of the configuration settings from mcMMO.
 
TheComputerGeek2 said:
I hate to say it, but he actually can brew them automatically, to an extent, however, doing so involves abusing a bug in one of the configuration settings from mcMMO.
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Then it would be considered abusing glitches in mcMMO, which similar to the previous sh3 glitch, is bannable.
 
TheComputerGeek2 said:
I hate to say it, but he actually can brew them automatically, to an extent, however, doing so involves abusing a bug in one of the configuration settings from mcMMO.
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Do not abuse in game mechanics or plugins


Over time, plugins may reveal features that do not function as they were intended. Players should never use a plugin or standard Minecraft mechanic in such a way to circumvent gameplay features. A good example of this is using hoppers to steal weapons dropped by MCMMO. Do not loophole around plugins or features in general.

If this is true then thor is breaking a rule.
 
kevencolis said:
Do not abuse in game mechanics or plugins


Over time, plugins may reveal features that do not function as they were intended. Players should never use a plugin or standard Minecraft mechanic in such a way to circumvent gameplay features. A good example of this is using hoppers to steal weapons dropped by MCMMO. Do not loophole around plugins or features in general.

If this is true then thor is breaking a rule.
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That was kind of what I was getting at.

I had assummed that people understood this was a bug and that there was a deliberate attempt to prevent hoppers from being used to make mcMMO pots. Although an alternative interpretation is that the config setting was designed more to prevent people from circumventing the leveling to unlock pots.
 
I do feel that it is necessary to make it clear that there is still the alternate interpretation of the config option which is that it is only to make sure people have to level to make it (however, I actually haven't ever tested with this config option disabled so I cannot confirm if it even would allow high tiered brewing without leveling).
 
Im a bit concerned here cause qgmk is the leader of mag and part of the staff (and im assuming) that he knows about thor's brewing method and he wasnt warned or told to stop abusing mcmmo alchemy. I know it since massive added mcmmo alchemy on the server that you CANT brew mcmmo pots automatically and you have to put ingredients manually in the brewing stands. So if youre able to bypass this its obviously a glitch and has to reported and not abused.
 
kevencolis said:
Im a bit concerned here cause qgmk is the leader of mag and part of the staff (and im assuming) that he knows about thor's brewing method and he wasnt warned or told to stop abusing mcmmo alchemy. I know it since massive added mcmmo alchemy on the server that you CANT brew mcmmo pots automatically and put ingredients manually in the brewing stand. So if youre able to bypass this its obviously a glitch and has to reported and not abused.
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I don't think you quite understand how it works, nor am I sure what I'm allowed to say about it publicly, in part due to the uncertainty of if it is considered an exploit. If one of the staff would like to give me the green light to explain the nature, then I'm fine explaining what happens.
 
Mcmmo is an open plugin so im pretty sure you can talk about it publicly
 
Well, after looking at the leaderboards for alchemy at http://www.massivecraft.com/skill-highscore I am convinced that this was in fact an exploit, but not the one I was expecting. My grounds for being certain it is an exploit regardless of how he did it is that I did not see him being listed with at least 1k alchemy. I am still awaiting a response from a game staff in regards to if I am allowed to talk about the bug.

It appears that his level is 115 in alchemy, which cannot brew ANY mcMMO pots, especially not resistance.
 
Sarge_Peppers said:
This wouldn't be a problem if they didnt nerf armor damage. Back in my day someone took a god apple we shredded his armor, but now its not even close.
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I totally afree with you on this one sarge. The 3x times armor durability is dumb.
 
TheComputerGeek2 said:
Could we just triple the growth rate of the armor damage that axes do?
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Sure so a guy like traxex with his 8k axes will shrek your amor in like 2-3 hits.. No it would be dumb the solution is to maybe nerf the armor durability from 3 to 2 times cause the reason why they added this was to prevent armor breaking too fast by people with over 3k axes. Back in the old days and sarge can back me on this one the highest axes was 600 and I think it was FHFDooM. Those were the good days. An other solution would be to bring back the vanilla armor durability and to cap mcmmo stats like axes skills caps at correct me if im wrong 750 so if you reach this you cant lvl it higher.
 
@kevencolis I said almost automatically, I have a machine that lets the user place the ingredients in using redstone, I have someone who has 1k alchemy do it for me, now please if you want to talk about axes or flame some more go to a different thread.
 
First of I wasnt flaming (stop seeing everything as a flame) and second we were talking about resistance and armor durability.. How is it not related to your thread?
 
thor5648 said:
So let me start off by saying this, I have a whole potion machine set up to brew resistance pots with no effort by the user, and I probably have one of the highest number of resistance potions on the server in my potion storage.
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This certainly seems to mean fully automatic.

(cc @kevencolis)
 
thor5648 said:
@kevencolis I said almost automatically, I have a machine that lets the user place the ingredients in using redstone, I have someone who has 1k alchemy do it for me, now please if you want to talk about axes or flame some more go to a different thread.
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Thor you should remember the good old days. No reason to get rid of rez pots when we can bring back tther only counter
 
kevencolis said:
An other solution would be to bring back the vanilla armor durability and to cap mcmmo stats like axes skills caps at correct me if im wrong 750 so if you reach this you cant lvl it higher.
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They actually did this on another server I play on and I had no clue what was up because people with just 750 axes were shredding my armor way faster than I do with my nearly 3300 axes on Massive. Didn't realize they altered the durability but having said that since their is no cap and it would piss a whole lot of people off if you just removed all their hard work I think the change they made was the right one and shouldn't be altered at this point.

I guess one reasonable solution would be to cap the armor break that way people who worked so hard will still get the increased skullsplitter to justify it.
 
Jackmo_Jones said:
They actually did this on another server I play on and I had no clue what was up because people with just 750 axes were shredding my armor way faster than I do with my nearly 3300 axes on Massive. Didn't realize they altered the durability but having said that since their is no cap and it would piss a whole lot of people off if you just removed all their hard work I think the change they made was the right one and shouldn't be altered at this point.

I guess one reasonable solution would be to cap the armor break that way people who worked so hard will still get the increased skullsplitter to justify it.
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That wont justify it xD
 
Jackmo_Jones said:
They actually did this on another server I play on and I had no clue what was up because people with just 750 axes were shredding my armor way faster than I do with my nearly 3300 axes on Massive. Didn't realize they altered the durability but having said that since their is no cap and it would piss a whole lot of people off if you just removed all their hard work I think the change they made was the right one and shouldn't be altered at this point.

I guess one reasonable solution would be to cap the armor break that way people who worked so hard will still get the increased skullsplitter to justify it.
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Im in /mctop and i dont care if they would remove completely mcmmo or reduce our stats to the cap of each skills.
Vanilla pvp > mcmmo pvp
 
kevencolis said:
Im in /mctop and i dont care if they would remove completely mcmmo or reduce our stats to the cap of each skills.
Vanilla pvp > mcmmo pvp
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I'm aware of your placement on the mctop if you hadn't noticed we're right next to each other on that list. :P

Also IMO mcmmo pvp > vanilla pvp

And I would personally be pissed if it were removed and I know for a fact 3 members of my faction feel the same way as well as few other friends I have on the server. Not saying this opinion is shared by everyone which is why I said "a lot" instead of "all."
 
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