Archived Removal Of Massive Armor, Re-add God Apples

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Lord_ArchAngel

Lord_ArchAngel

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While talking to a few allies over teamspeak one day. And with the attempt of bringing more fun back to the server with the staff. I feel that god apples should be returned and massive armor be removed. Why?

+Massive Armor is diamond armor, meaning only premiums can use it. Meaning Non prems can't use this armor. Yes, non prems could just donate to use it, but not everyone has money to donate.
+Massive Armor may be just Protection V and Unbreaking V, but staff and some players say it isn't a "big" affect on the server's PvP. But in reality its a huge affect.
+Now that Massive Armor was added, the PvP is basicall, "Pay to PvP"

Now to the god apples.

God apples should be re-added back into the server. Why?
+God apples is a vanilla minecraft item. Without god apples, the amount of pvpers have diminished. God apples were used by everyone to pvp. From the lowest skilled Non-prem to the highest skilled premium. It was an item that made it so EVERYONE could PvP. When it was disabled, the amount of PvPers changed to just premiums. Why? Because to pvp in todays MassiveCraft PvP environment, you needed premium, to use Massive Armor.
+Without god apples and the addition of Massive Armor, there has been lack of PvP from the "non prem" side. Only premium pvp nowadays, or its more like CAN PVP, since you need premium to pvp.

What do you think? Agree or disagree?
 
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Agree, and aswell God apples provided a market for the item itself , and a good market for gold in the economy.
 
Lord_ArchAngel said:
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I sort of agree and disagree with this suggestion, and here is why:
Removal of Massive Armour, I am all for that. Massive Armour gives a very large advantage in pvp, and as you stated, gives non prems no chance. Not to mention, someone in a full set of massive armour + 30% damage reduction + undead reduction takes ~90 hits to kill (So I have heard from a few allies that tested this).
God Apples, I am on the fence with these. It sure gives anyone a fighting chance, but makes the best pvpers near invincible. However, if perhaps the bringing back of god apples could replace most of the ideas on the thread about Proposed pvp changes, I would be all for the god apples, as I feel the other suggestions to make pvp last longer are not very good.
 
That is true, but in a way they're armor can still break aswell if they use god apples, if somebody doesn't have the axes to do the armor damage swords still does fair armor damage and bows do actually a high amount of armor damage aswell. And it'll bring more silver exchange in the gold markets and ofcourse god apple market. Keep in mind non premiums have been complaining that they just get slaughtered easily , if god apples we're back, they pop a god apple and they can escape .

Edit*: Also just to add if the ender pearl idea of not being able to be thrown while pacifist false does not fall through with Cayorion or coding staff then people with massive armor just simply will not die, if the ender pearl idea does happen and people cannot throw a pearl while pacifist false and massive armor was remove, then I do not think we will necessarily NEED god apples back, because PvP would actually be pretty balanced at that point
 
1. I think that god apples should be enabled again if! They got a big nerf... Regen IV and dmg reduction 20 or 40% (correct me if i'm wrong) is kinda op. ;3
2. I think there should be made a massive armour in iron version so non prems also gets the opportunity to fight.
 
Lord_ArchAngel said:
+Massive Armor is diamond armor, meaning only premiums can use it. Meaning Non prems can't use this armor. Yes, non prems could just donate to use it, but not everyone has money to donate.
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Trading, giving to allies/factionmates who need it. Other uses exist.

Lord_ArchAngel said:
+Massive Armor may be just Protection V and Unbreaking V, but staff and some players say it isn't a "big" affect on the server's PvP. But in reality its a huge affect.
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I'll admit, the enchantments are quite powerful. You have a point there.

Lord_ArchAngel said:
+Now that Massive Armor was added, the PvP is basically, "Pay to PvP"
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Some would argue it was never like that. Others would argue it was always like that.

Lord_ArchAngel said:
+God apples is a vanilla minecraft item. Without god apples, the amount of pvpers have diminished. God apples were used by everyone to pvp. From the lowest skilled Non-prem to the highest skilled premium. It was an item that made it so EVERYONE could PvP. When it was disabled, the amount of PvPers changed to just premiums. Why? Because to pvp in todays MassiveCraft PvP environment, you needed premium, to use Massive Armor.
+Without god apples and the addition of Massive Armor, there has been lack of PvP from the "non prem" side. Only premium pvp nowadays, or its more like CAN PVP, since you need premium to pvp.
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The amount of PvPers has definitely decreased, but quite a few converted to RP and never looked back.

I did vote No, but that is only because I rely nearly solely on MassiveArmour for income, haha. You make pretty valid points, however.
 
In the way of equality in combat God Apples are better then Massive Armor. I don't like either but this is a better idea, I feel, for balancing PvP then leaving Massive Armor as-is. That said, I have heard rumors that Massive Armor is going to be reduced to Iron Armor so that non-prems can use it.
 
If god apples would be introduced AGAIN, people would just eat them like crazy. No skill or technique needed.
 
God apples were removed for a reason, and it was before the time of massive armor, so bringing them back would solve anything, unless the only way to obtain them was through voting, which I kinda like.
 
So in other words you have made a crapton of OP Apples which were removed for a good reason (them making you invincible) which you want to sell and you also prob want to sell god armor/unbr 3 again so you want massive armor removed?
Because that is EXACTLY what im getting from this thread.

God Armor is still there and also creates the same situation. The huge strength difference is there because most non prems only have un-enchanted armor since they lose their armor everytime they die meaning even if they make themselves decent armor its gone after they lose a battle.
Prems dominated non prems before massive armor just as much as they do now so that argument is honestly bs.
Note that I am in favor of the Massive Armor -> Iron Idea since its more fair.

Now for God Apples. As long as you have good armor (light enchanted diamond or high enchanted iron) they basicly make you invincible untill your armor breaks. Now tell me, what will break sooner, Iron armor or Diamond armor with unbreaking? Even if the iron armor had unbr 3 and the diamond armor none, the Iron armor breaks significantly faster then the diamond armor. So all that God Apples do is, again, reinforce the barrier between Prems and Non-Prems.

All in all: 2/10 would not agree since its only to boost prem economy (selling op apples/god armor)
 
nray93 said:
Even if the iron armor had unbr 3 and the diamond armor none, the Iron armor breaks significantly faster then the diamond armor.
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Yes, it may breaks faster(i dont know for sure about durability), but a set of god iron armor has a greater defense then plain diamond armor.
 
TechPac said:
Yes, it may breaks faster(i dont know for sure about durability), but a set of god iron armor has a greater defense then plain diamond armor.
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Iron Armor Dura=Diamond Armor Dura * ~0.455 (less then half) .
Chance to take a use away = 60% + 40%/unbr X+1 (Unbr 3 =60%+40%/3+1=70% for the armor to take damage on hit, instead of 100%).

Numbers/Calculations Taken from the following minecraft wiki pages:
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Enchanting#Enchantments (unbreaking mechanic)
http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Armor#Durability (durability difference)
 
BenAlex144 said:
You've obviously never PvPed before.
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Wow, posts like these are indeed needed everywhere. Such a well thought out and well reasoned observement. Such a carefully structured response. Not to mention all the reasons you counted which support your statement and verify that it is not just an opinion but a Fact. Trully I have to say that such ellaborated responses such as your´s are needed in every discussion and that everyone should follow your steps and create such great and helpfull responses.
 
nray93 said:
Wow, posts like these are indeed needed everywhere. Such a well thought out and well reasoned observement. Such a carefully structured response. Not to mention all the reasons you counted which support your statement and verify that it is not just an opinion but a Fact. Trully I have to say that such ellaborated responses such as your´s are needed in every discussion and that everyone should follow your steps and create such great and helpfull responses.
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^
BenAlex144 said:
First of all, calm down. Secondly, your a hypocrite and your ignorance of the ACTUAL topic pisses me off. My evidence: "So in other words you have made a crapton of OP Apples which were removed for a good reason (them making you invincible) which you want to sell and you also prob want to sell god armor/unbr 3 again so you want massive armor removed?
Because that is EXACTLY what im getting from this thread."
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Think about this;
Okay, Prot V Unbreaking V/III/whatever Massive armour has, all the Premiums are gods.
Removes Massive armour, now Golden apples are back.

There, Iron Unbreaking III Protection IV would snap quickly, making the apple useless within almost seconds.

Premiums; Armour doesn't snap instantly, the god apple is extremely powerful, making it so Premiums dies LATER than having Massivearmour.

Also...
Knowing how rude you did bring your statement,
BenAlex144 said:
You've obviously never PvPed before.
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I'm a bit worried about you, knowing you didn't expect a negative response in return.

If you think about it, they are removing a god item to replace it with one that is almost more powerful.

Although I sorta agree with you Lord_ArchAngel, I feel that Eden Apples being brought back will still kinda make PvP unfair, however only in some cases, the reasons you listed that helps Non-Premiums is certainly true, but it just doesn't help enough.
 
BenAlex144 said:
First of all, calm down. Secondly, your a hypocrite and your ignorance of the ACTUAL topic pisses me off. My evidence: "So in other words you have made a crapton of OP Apples which were removed for a good reason (them making you invincible) which you want to sell and you also prob want to sell god armor/unbr 3 again so you want massive armor removed?
Because that is EXACTLY what im getting from this thread."

-Nray

All opinion buddy. So you should probably realize your losing some credibilty.
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Let me tell you something, I do train in darkrooms in order to get higher mcmmo levels, while doing that I enchanted so much that I have a ton of high enchanted weapons and armor. For prems selling these high enchanted things is one of the main income sources (or at least it makes a considerable huge amount). Since the introduction of massive armor , god armor (the highest quality product you could buy) has been devalued a LOT. Since now there is a better armor out there, and even plenty of it (I think a payed a total of 45s for the 2 pieces I didnt get through voting). Before: God armor was 120s++, with the market it was then set to 100s or even 80s (cowboys for example shop). Now with massive armor, I dont even know exactly anymore because there isnt so much god armor sold that I can get an idea of its worth.

Also it seems you didnt read, because you nicely ignored the 2 paragraphs below that one explaining why the reasons OP (original poster) stated were bull.

Also the poster was LordArchangel who is one of the more famous(or infamous) pvpér on the server so I its safe to asume he has indeed a " crapton of OP Apples which were removed for a good reason" as well as a Lot of god armor sets from farming/enchanting (not to mention fishing pre-nerf).
This relatively probable (you can only know 100% if you check all his storage) knowledge coupled with the flawed reasoning has made me questioning the true motives behind this thread and let me speak out what I think those "true motives" might be.

Your Turn

Edit: Can´t believe I got ninja´d again. I guess thats what happens when you type semi longass posts.
 
If anyone would like to see the video of me taking 60 hits to kill disturbed (massive armor +undead) and only 13 to kill lord arch (prot4 unbr3 + undead AND faction reduction, disturbed did not have faction reduction) then just send me a message and I will link you to the vid. Massive armor is a lot worse than god apples, at least with god apples you can smash armor very fast, with massive armor it takes a long while.
 
thor5648 said:
If anyone would like to see the video of me taking 60 hits to kill disturbed (massive armor +undead) and only 13 to kill lord arch (prot4 unbr3 + undead AND faction reduction, disturbed did not have faction reduction) then just send me a message and I will link you to the vid. Massive armor is a lot worse than god apples, at least with god apples you can smash armor very fast, with massive armor it takes a long while.
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The problem is not everyone uses axes. As well, not everyone has hours to burn training everything to 1000. Axes are already ridiculously OP in PVP and god apples can only be countered by axes, that is unfair to everyone without a hugeaxes skill which includes most non-premiums along with many non-premiums.
 
nray93 said:
Let me tell you something, I do train in darkrooms in order to get higher mcmmo levels, while doing that I enchanted so much that I have a ton of high enchanted weapons and armor. For prems selling these high enchanted things is one of the main income sources (or at least it makes a considerable huge amount). Since the introduction of massive armor , god armor (the highest quality product you could buy) has been devalued a LOT. Since now there is a better armor out there, and even plenty of it (I think a payed a total of 45s for the 2 pieces I didnt get through voting). Before: God armor was 120s++, with the market it was then set to 100s or even 80s (cowboys for example shop). Now with massive armor, I dont even know exactly anymore because there isnt so much god armor sold that I can get an idea of its worth.

Also it seems you didnt read, because you nicely ignored the 2 paragraphs below that one explaining why the reasons OP (original poster) stated were bull.

Also the poster was LordArchangel who is one of the more famous(or infamous) pvpér on the server so I its safe to asume he has indeed a " crapton of OP Apples which were removed for a good reason" as well as a Lot of god armor sets from farming/enchanting (not to mention fishing pre-nerf).
This relatively probable (you can only know 100% if you check all his storage) knowledge coupled with the flawed reasoning has made me questioning the true motives behind this thread and let me speak out what I think those "true motives" might be.

Your Turn

Edit: Can´t believe I got ninja´d again. I guess thats what happens when you type semi longass posts.
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Although I still stand by my side, what the title suggests, I apologizes for anything offensive or demeaning I've said to you. I was angry because you accused the op of wanting god apples back because he crafted a bunch of them while I and many other players argued the same points he was arguing because we think PvP would be a more enjoyable PvP experience if these changes to the game were reverted to their original state.
 
i agree that god apples should be re-added, but massive armor should stay, there are to many out for them to be removed.
 
Maybe nerf god apples a bit so that it isn't just fighting until one person's armor breaks or they are out of god apples to chug...Because that's really the whole reason they removed them in the first place.
 
BenAlex144 said:
I'm pretty sure the server could do it. And as someone stated a little earlier to me "Massive Armor + God Apples = Invincible PvPer"
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well i know they could do it, it would make people mad though, haveing all that silver spent on items that were removed, that can make someone mad, if i were to have god apples or massive armor (for both prem and non-prem) i would choose massive armor
 
As I've said somewhere else, I do not PvP. As such, I do not care if Massive Armor is removed, and god apples are returned. However, I realize this is a PvP server, and that Massive Armor is a bit powerful, even though it is "rare". Because of this, I can agree that the server can be, at times, pay to PvP. I do think that Massive Armor should be removed, but I'm sure I want the apples back either. Just my two cents.
 
God Armour is very similar to Massive Armour, I have never seen the problem with the Armour. God Apples on the other hand.. well if you had a God Apple and God Armour that made you almost indestructible. So I feel as long as one goes, which I think should be God Apples, I don't mind
 
BenAlex144

Unless you actually intend to send a word to me, don't quote me on something I said. It spams my alerts.
 
God Apples were removed because they were too OP in 1.6. I believe there is a plugin to bring back the old god apples and I believe that should be implemented.
 
TechPac said:
God apples were removed for a reason, and it was before the time of massive armor, so bringing them back would solve anything, unless the only way to obtain them was through voting, which I kinda like.
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If God apples were a tier V voting reward (with only one at a time) it would be extremely valuable and not chugged by the stack in pvp matches.
 
This is kindof why we are at an impasse with fixing the pvp issues. The PVP community themselves seem to be completely on different pages where the issues are, and fight each other on every suggestion thread.
 
Ok, all we need is the slug added into there. I'll check it out later today to find a fix to this. XxXYaJrAbXxX
 
nray93 said:
Also it seems you didnt read, because you nicely ignored the 2 paragraphs below that one explaining why the reasons OP (original poster) stated were bull.

Also the poster was LordArchangel who is one of the more famous(or infamous) pvpér on the server so I its safe to asume he has indeed a " crapton of OP Apples which were removed for a good reason" as well as a Lot of god armor sets from farming/enchanting (not to mention fishing pre-nerf).
This relatively probable (you can only know 100% if you check all his storage) knowledge coupled with the flawed reasoning has made me questioning the true motives behind this thread and let me speak out what I think those "true motives" might be..
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I don't think the person who wrote this thread means anything, other than he wants a change in PvP. You make it sound like I made this thread just for me to gain an advantage over others in-game. Also, what would having a staff member check through my storage really gain you?
 
Lord_ArchAngel said:
I don't think the person who wrote this thread means anything, other than he wants a change in PvP. You make it sound like I made this thread just for me to gain an advantage over others in-game. Also, what would having a staff member check through my storage really gain you?
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So the poster who you are quoting is asuming that you speak of yourself in third person. Not only that but that person also wants to point out that this was just to point out how it is nearly impossible to confirm an asumption like this 100%, since even if a staff would search for it there is no guruantee that it finds ALL storage. There is no reason for that, it was just an example.

Now one of the reasons why the person asumed that you did not post this with those intentions is for example the fact that there are many things just not noted.
  • What is the exact difference between a non prem fighting a prem in God armor and a non prem fighting a prem in massive armor?
  • Why would the fact that OP apples are expensive and could only be easily affordable by peopel who train a lot in darkrooms (who are coincidently also those who often buy prem with silver) NOT make OP apples an items almost exclusively used by prems and much more effective by them (their armor has more then twice the dura (diamond armor-iron armor dura comparison) ?
In your original post you bring the argument that this change helps non prems in fights, yet without further arguments (which you could still add) it looks that all it would do is change non prems getting destroyed by prems in massive armor INTO non prems with op apples getting destroyed by prems in god armor with op apples (difference is now prems can get op apple drops from non prems).

Of course this poster is open for any retorts you may bring.
 
Massive Armor was removed today. All pieces will be refunded to 10s when attempting to click or use it. We are not taking a decision on god apples yet.
 
I like this idea very much.
 
On the magic explaination for RP it says conjuration is impossible, I know it's RP but it's contridictary since Massive Armour is heavily about it coming out of thin air, I'm not bothered about Tier 4 below but Tier 5 is like the gods themselves have gave you there belongings for doing nothing really, ruins economy and PVP in my opinion. Maybe they shouldn't get rid of it and try something else like the % chance of 0.5-2%? Like Tier 1 is 60 Tier 2 30% Tier 3 5.5% Tier 4 about 3% and Tier 5 1.5% This could be used to prevent severe market drops, and could give a more sort of gamble thing to the game? I'm not sure for a word there! :P It'll still influence voting since there is that small chance of getting something good, because if they wipe massive armour completely the vote count will drop, so you have to think of it from 2 sides.
 
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