Regarding Massivecraft's Anthro Races

Discussion in 'Roleplay Discussion' started by MonMarty, Sep 5, 2020.

  1. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    MassiveCraft has had a couple of Anthro races throughout the years, some with success, some with not so much success. Variety in player styles is very important, but I've never made it much of a secret that Massive tries to provide a friendly and safe space for Furries to roleplay with something they can associate with and present their own identity. It is important to us that people who just enjoy the aesthetic of beast-men, as well as people who have anthro fursonas or are part of the wider furry community have "a way in" to Aloria with something that represents them, instead of having to make do with something they don't really feel connected to. And even for people who aren't furries, the beast or animal aesthetic races should feel comfortable and accepting.

    We are however, once again, at a crossroads where we decide the future of the Varran race. There's definitely been calls to cut down on the amount of subraces in the Varran hemisphere, and calls also to expand individual subrace creativity, but we never fully put the question out there to the playerbase, and for those who love the Varran race, to help themselves by helping us. Before we get to that question, let's review what beast-like races currently exist:
    • There are bird-like anthro characters in the Sihai, Red-panda like anthro characters in the Sihai, and wolf/fox like anthro characters in the Sihai, but these niches are a little weak. We expect to do something about that race at some point that moves a bit away from the anthro aspect and reinforces the more humanoid aspect of them.
    • Allar and Slizzar obviously fulfill the lizard/snake anthro aesthetic, and it is solid. We expect no changes there, except for a simplification of subrace design for the Allar, and an expansion of their design choices real soon.
    • Url are minotaurs or bear-men, depending on your perspective. They don't really classify as anthro, and their aesthetic will largely remain stable because they are just a very solid race that doesn't need much. Url are kind of outside of the anthro considerations.
    Which leaves us with the Varran race. It is currently undergoing systematic lore rewrites to make them a strong standalone race that doesn't just have a "we're sad because Elves destroyed our history and culture" storyline, and makes them an actually strong and independent force to be reckoned with, but we've had some disagreements internally in what direction we should take the subraces.

    Essentially, at a certain point in time, I treated the lore like a shotgun where I just tried as wide a spread of anthro subraces as possible to try and hit many people, but it didn't quite seem to work. We hit some people with the Varran, Yarran, and Sarran, but to our knowledge, nobody really played the otters besides the first few weeks, and nobody ever really played the binturong or fennec/jackal/hyena subtypes.

    The summary of this thread is thus: Help yourself (if you are interested in playing a Varran but can't quite connect with any of the subraces) by suggesting a new palette of subraces, or by speculating/talking with us about what you think would be popular picks for anthro subraces to be as inclusive as possible to furries, or people who don't necessarily self-identify as a furry, but just really love playing animalistic races or beast-men (or women).

    In our current concept, the Sarran and Warran are being merged into one subrace, while the Yarran remains standalone. We don't have any plans to keep the Koorran, Ovirran and Rakrran, we are planning on keeping the Fenrran, but getting rid of the Tasrran and Mairran. If someone can make a compelling case that a healthy number of players is interested in one of the "to be removed" subraces though, we can be compelled to keep them and even expand them. Or better yet, if anyone wants to make a case of a new anthro aesthetic or new animal type joining the Varran fold, we're open for discussions/suggestions, for the purpose of making the Varran more appealing to as many people as possible, to make Massive feel like a home with something they can identify with.
     
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  2. indyfan98

    indyfan98 I'm not narcissistic. I'm just better than you.

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    :sadface: I understand why, though it is worth noting that I've seen a slight influx of Greater and New Dynasty Sihai as of late. Frivolous, not so much. (Seems to be just me and Krakenlord, with the latter being inactive...) It's still sad news. I am not a furry, personally, beyond the enjoyment of bestial races as a design. But, maybe it'll attract more people to the Sihai?
     
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  3. Ghirko

    Ghirko Snek Intensifies

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    I feel a lot of the interest in the beast races is easily sidetracked by the Werebeast or vampires which can fill that niche while giving bigger, badder powers. This is brilliant for the races that remain removed from lore, such as the bugs and mekket, but split the attention. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as it does give that important choice to the players, and is just why I feel there may be a disconnect.

    On a bit of a different note, I've heard from at least one person that they got shit for playing an allar and often overlooked. This is a single example so I understand its not necessarily accurate to the playerbase as a whole, or the varran, but could be an explanation as to why people may prefer url or Werebeast that aren't always furry.

    This isn't much about what can be done to help the situation but my thoughts as to why they're like this to begin with. Hope it helps.
     
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  4. Altalar

    Altalar has Rabies

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    As a furry I give this the stamp of approval. Good job Marty.
     
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  5. _Owlet

    _Owlet Nelfin Redhead

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    I've always appreciated the aesthetic of varrans and the other anthropomorphic races. I do agree with Ghirko with the fact Werebeasts/Vampires seem to over-shine them due to the abilities and such. As a Half-Varran roleplayer I would love to see this update, would be nice to see them have a more specific niche rather than big cat people.
     
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  6. DrFong

    DrFong The Knave of Rats

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    I really like my New Dynasty Sihai, Knave of Rats. I would be greatly disappointed if I couldn't play him as the (lovable?) monster he has become in the last year. Please don't take away Sihai animal forms!

    Imagine the frustration of creating a character, playing them, investing in them and then suddenly they can't be themselves anymore because the lore got yanked out from under them in a rewrite.

    "..to make Massive feel like a home with something they can identify with" - Please don't take away my current home to make room for speculative future players.
     
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  7. Ghirko

    Ghirko Snek Intensifies

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    I feel this is a issue that can be seen across all forms of lore changes at times. Sometimes it can be harsher than others, sometimes it's the little things that throw the wrenches into gears. Lore is updated and brand new players swoon in on that wave we've all come to know but the long time players of that race tend to be pushed out due to their characters no longer aligning with the new lore, and the new players who were on hype typically die away. Yes, people can more often than not make the changes to their character to fit, but sometimes, especially long-time characters, will really struggle with these changes.
     
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  8. ZeeAtlas

    ZeeAtlas Regalian Pioneer

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    I feel like part of the turn away from the Sihai Dynasties is their lack of appealing racial abilities beyond some of the forms giving perfect recall. I suppose you could say that Eastern Blades and Eastern Unarmed are racial abilities within themselves, but they're not specific to Sihai.

    But, in terms of the Varran, I feel as if reducing it to a couple sub races representing different animal types (Canine, Feline, Etc) and allowing some sort of free range in the different animals within those types would be beneficial. For example, someone choosing a Canine Varran would be able to have the freedom to make it something like a Wolf, Fox or Jackal. And a Feline Varran would have the freedom to choose between a Tiger, Leopard, Lion, etc...

    While I'm not a furry and I don't identify with the community, I do enjoy the aesthetics of the bestial races. I feel like reducing the amount of sub races, but increasing the amount of creative freedom would solve the shotgun issue you're describing. It would reduce the overall amount of sub races, but still allow the freedom of expression for the people who do identify with the wider furry community.
     
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  9. IcecreamSpirit

    IcecreamSpirit Refugee

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    How soon or how far away do y'all estimate the Sihai changes will take place.
     
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  10. indyfan98

    indyfan98 I'm not narcissistic. I'm just better than you.

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    Perhaps have a Caniform (dogs, wolves, foxes, etc.) subrace, a Feliform (Cats, Hyenas, Meerkats, etc) subrace, and a rodent (rats, squirrels, capybaras, etc.) subrace for Varran? Each would allow for freedom in that design style. The rodent one would allow for beavers, chinchillas, and a lot of other fun stuff (hamster inventor?).

    Maybe allow each subrace choose from one of a list of potential racial abilities, from swimming to speed to climbing to bite strength. Each Varran could choose two or maybe three abilities to list on their character application, and they can't change it.
     
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    #10 indyfan98, Sep 5, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  11. thecrazy13

    thecrazy13 It me, that dude

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    Allowing for non-carnivore additions would also help.
    Looking at statistics from furscience.com, you can see that the most common choice is actually a hybrid of animals.
    Even among those hybrids, many are unable to specify due to the vagueness of those fantasy species such as Dutchies and Sergals, to name two of the more popular ones.
    I feel like Massivecraft could benefit from a TRULY unique species, something that would become a sort of calling card for the server among furries.
    But really the biggest appeal to furries is aesthetic choice, making each subrace vague and allowing for more aesthetic freedom among them, with canines, felines, rodents, marsupials and more. Best to cast as wide a net as possible without getting TOO specific.
    Perhaps a focus on genetic modification and adaptation to environments based on a background generalized but unspecified Mammalian creature acting as the original base. Prompting a "search for the missing link" among Varran to find 'the original form of Varran'.
    It would be interesting to have a more drawn out discussion on this, you never know what people could come up with.
    For more info on the species stuff btw: https://furscience.com/research-findings/fursonas/3-1-species-popularity/
    that link contains gathered information from surveys of furries.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. IcecreamSpirit

    IcecreamSpirit Refugee

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    Maybe the Sihai forms could be based off of the Chinese zodiac.
     
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  13. Yui_Drax

    Yui_Drax Loong Worshiper and Sihai Enthusiast

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    Mm, Dragon Form Time.
     
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  14. MyCatBubbles

    MyCatBubbles Massivecrafts Schizo

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    Centaur race when?
     
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  15. Proudbucket

    Proudbucket Custom title

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    I'd just say it is news to me that owlmen and panda men exists and I never expected them to be under the sihai race because I don't read all races and from the sihai image I just see "asian looking person". This might be a problem as new people interested in those races might not find them.

    I'd set a "beastmen" race in the wiki and add a picture with 2-3 very different furries. Birdmen, dogmen, fishmen, catmen, ratmen, insectmen and whatnot can be described there as subraces. This could help new players to quickly find what they are looking for.
     
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    #15 Proudbucket, Sep 6, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  16. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    I should have been more clear: We're not removing the moon forms, just making them less domineering the lore background. So any character of Sihai you have currently is fine to stay in perpetuity, we're just changing how dominant the "furred" races are in the Sihai Empire's backstory, and changing the core concept of the race a bit more to spirit animals as opposed to a type locked set of 3 animal races.
     
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  17. IcecreamSpirit

    IcecreamSpirit Refugee

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    OooOOooo! Are these going to be physical transformations, or are they more mental and ability based?
     
  18. Cyliah

    Cyliah Cute Sunflower by Day, Sassy Bitch by Night.

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    I was hoping to hear more news regarding Maiars, can we expect an update in the near future?
     
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  19. MrBlwe

    MrBlwe Refugee

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    I will say I’m excited to see Allar be turned back a little more simpler, I hope that we can return a little bit closer to the original allar as they had a sense of unity to them, while current allar feel a little bit like a mis-mash. Generally though I’m genuinely excited to see all these updates be rolled out, and I can’t wait. Also yes maiar news pls
     
  20. Ghirko

    Ghirko Snek Intensifies

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    I've heard from a few other Allar players that they feel Allar were nerfed while all other races are being buffed, but they also expressed that they would prefer to see the other races be a bit calmer and nerfed to equal level rather than piling on ability after ability to try and make them balanced in some semblance, something I admit I agree with. Racial powers could be implemented instead into race-specific magic, so that not all race has some form of innate magical ability if it doesn't particularly fit with their design, and not have to have some aspects of lore crowbarred into a way for it to make sense.
     
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  21. IGutTheMidasTuch

    IGutTheMidasTuch colony of worms in a vaguely humanoid disguise

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    fuck yeah lets get some CHEESE boys and flying dog squeakers on massive
     
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  22. thecrazy13

    thecrazy13 It me, that dude

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    considering those particular species are someone else's creation, I don't think Marty would be comfortable using them, I imagine a better approach would be to create a whole new type of animal
     
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  23. IGutTheMidasTuch

    IGutTheMidasTuch colony of worms in a vaguely humanoid disguise

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    no, we must have cheese.



    (i tried to make it obvious, but in case it isn't, this is all very much a joke. I think a completely original creature-esque race would be a fantastic idea.)
     
  24. Kleinfolk

    Kleinfolk cool beans

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    Remove furries
     
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  25. IGutTheMidasTuch

    IGutTheMidasTuch colony of worms in a vaguely humanoid disguise

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    remove RejectedNerd74
     
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  26. dimetros

    dimetros unironic scalie

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    I do agree that the Varran race, or massive in general, could really benefit from a unique species; if I were to suggest certain design elements, it would be putting an emphasis on the living metal aspect of Varran. Living Metal in general I think deserves a lot more emphasis in the Varran lore- its a very cool concept!

    Maybe this unique design would be a special subrace with a particular connection to living metal- one that manifests in mutations, like non-functional metal spikes or pure, silvery eyes? In terms of design, I think it would be nice to stick to a somewhat cat-like aspect, at least with the ears, or maybe with a different snout shape. I'm really just spitballing here- I really like Varran, and I'd love to see improvement.

    Design freedom in other subraces would be nice, so people can choose what they connect to. But definately, a sort of unique species would add to their appeal as opposed to just being "the cat people".
     
  27. indyfan98

    indyfan98 I'm not narcissistic. I'm just better than you.

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    I agree. Varran could do well with a sort-of Cratos aspect to them, but with living metal.
     
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