Archived Reduced Starting Money

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I've made this exact thread before, but it was never resolved due to it going off topic. So this time I'm hoping for a clear and succinct decision, opinion, reply or even a diatribe presented by a staff member, player input is of course welcome.

With inflation, everything is getting worth less, and silver is getting worth more. This is not necessarily a bad thing, however just as the value of a real economy is judged by absolutes like gold, our economy is also judged by things such as diamond prices.

The current starting money is sufficient to purchase 150 diamonds at a standard bulk buy price. Some might argue that these new players might not know how to buy at a good price, so it doesn't matter. But that really isn't the case, as their money is simply being filtered into the already overflowing pockets of those with shops in spawn to make diamond armour they can't even wear. I was a prime example of this when I had a shop in Silveredge.

Adapting to the change in currency and economic value of silver is fine, but what we give new players should also adapt. It should also reflect the state of the economy. If we think of how many DIAMONDS a new player should start with, remembering that diamonds are extremely valuable in normal minecraft, I would judge that no more than 15 silver would be appropriate, however at this stage I would be happy with any reduction, as it's progress.

The condition MonMarty made in the previous thread, was that if the suggestion was ever implemented, the starting price for factions would also be reduced. I have no objection. By considering of the actual material value of silver, it seems reasonable both starting money and faction prices should be reduced the same amount, maintaining the current ratio. (same percentage, relative to the original size of course). As of right now, faction creation cost to starting money is 6.6:1.

TL;DR, Unless you're really interested, I would suggest only reading this bit. It's the only part which I put effort into making coherent.

Money is worth a lot, and is getting worth more and more every day. New players are starting with ridiculous amounts of money considering it's value, and most of it is going straight to the shop owners, sitting on ever-growing piles of money, regardless of how they price their goods. Reducing the starting money would achieve fairer prices and less instant achievement of "Endgame" items.
 
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I agree with you when I first started i spent 3 silver and saved the rest. I bought only what I needed.My friend wasn't so lucky he lagged out and spent all of his money on pumpkins.
 
The problem with doing this, is that Cayorion wants to strike a balance between making factions not too easy to set up, but still possible for a group of friends to enjoy the factions benefits. It's going to take a lot of argumentation to convince him this is a bad idea.
 
The current starting money is 30 silver. At todays economy in MassiveCraft, 30 silver can get them: Full set of iron armor
All the diamonds tools they need, all the food they need and have money to spare. My suggestion for lowering the current beginning money is. 15 silver for starting players and the faction price to be lowered to 150. (Note I didn't think this idea through, I just made it up really fast)
 
If anything, the starting price should be lowered (or the same), and the faction price should be heightened.
Yes, the starting price is enough to buy alot, but it should be enough to be able to get up to a good start, considering the progress and wealth of some players...
The faction price should raise.
I, personally, founded Dotre in a day just by inviting a few friends into the server. Factions should be cheap enough to enjoy by friends, but it shouldn't be too overpopulative, since there is the 16 chunk rule.
This would also encourage players to join other factions that are recruiting and recruiting, like I hear in general chat just about every day.
So my opinion on these prices would be...
20s for starting
250s for faction creation
Even if they can't just start one up, training and earning money can also be experimented by new players.
New players could learn more about the economy while striving for silver.
Chain reaction! Entrepreneurship! (party)
And that also means more diamonds in stock, more farming goods, more enchanted items/books!
 
I beg to differ on a key point. The first argument is that diamond prices are going down. When I started, about 7 months ago, a stack of diamonds would routinely sell for 20s, with 16s being the best price. In the intervening time diamond prices fell to record lows, but are now back up to the price when I started. When sharding is completed, it is expected that there will be more people playing on massivecraft, and thus more new players. Since diamonds are used up as tools and armor wear, the demand for diamonds will increase. As the demand increases, the cost will continue to rise. Since the mining of diamonds is non-renewable, except for adding new worlds, this should slowly reduce the diamond stockpiles of the most experienced players, which could create an even greater demand for diamonds by people able to pay much more than beginning players. This means that what can be bought for 30s now is not necessarily the same as what can be bought just a couple of months from now.

To look at this issue another way. People are talking about reducing the starting money by 50%. What if the proposal was to reduce all money by 50% (starting and current balances)? This would be a much more fair adjustment, not just punishing new players. Somehow, I don't think this would have the same support.
 
To look at this issue another way. People are talking about reducing the starting money by 50%. What if the proposal was to reduce all money by 50% (starting and current balances)? This would be a much more fair adjustment, not just punishing new players. Somehow, I don't think this would have the same support.

Am I the only one that would support this? Hello? Anyone out there? But seriously if this is possible then I think it should be done. We're not losing money, its just becoming more valuable.....
 
Since diamonds are used up as tools and armor wear, the demand for diamonds will increase. As the demand increases, the cost will continue to rise. Since the mining of diamonds is non-renewable, except for adding new worlds, this should slowly reduce the diamond stockpiles of the most experienced players, which could create an even greater demand for diamonds by people able to pay much more than beginning players.

Adding new worlds is not the only way to get diamonds. With MCMMO, there are multiple ways to get diamonds, although you must work harder for them. So in reality, there will always be diamonds, but they may eventually become harder to get and cost more as our world's resources are exhausted and new worlds are not put out.
 
I beg to differ on a key point. The first argument is that diamond prices are going down. When I started, about 7 months ago, a stack of diamonds would routinely sell for 20s, with 16s being the best price. In the intervening time diamond prices fell to record lows, but are now back up to the price when I started. When sharding is completed, it is expected that there will be more people playing on massivecraft, and thus more new players. Since diamonds are used up as tools and armor wear, the demand for diamonds will increase. As the demand increases, the cost will continue to rise. Since the mining of diamonds is non-renewable, except for adding new worlds, this should slowly reduce the diamond stockpiles of the most experienced players, which could create an even greater demand for diamonds by people able to pay much more than beginning players. This means that what can be bought for 30s now is not necessarily the same as what can be bought just a couple of months from now.

To look at this issue another way. People are talking about reducing the starting money by 50%. What if the proposal was to reduce all money by 50% (starting and current balances)? This would be a much more fair adjustment, not just punishing new players. Somehow, I don't think this would have the same support.
i see your point on the diamond system, although the price went up from about 11s to 16s since that xray plugin came in, and several major x-rayers got banned. The price settled at... I would say at the moment its around 13-15s.
Anyway... if you are going to reduce starting money by 50%, it wouldn't be fair to reduce all money by 50%. The reason is that you are only reducing the money, but not the economy, the prices will stay the same, and the way to get money will stay the same. It's just that everyone will be poorer. If you did want it to be fair, then the reduction of the starating money would have to be an equal reduction of everone's money.
EX: starting money=30s and it becomes 15s
I have 90s, it becomes 75s
You may have 168s, it becomes 153s
 
To look at this issue another way. People are talking about reducing the starting money by 50%. What if the proposal was to reduce all money by 50% (starting and current balances)? This would be a much more fair adjustment, not just punishing new players. Somehow, I don't think this would have the same support.

I would love to be able to support this, but the silver in my account is primarily used to support my bank, if it was cut in half I wouldn't be able to cover my liabilities.[DOUBLEPOST=1368723720,1368723386][/DOUBLEPOST]I'm going to be honest I don't see anything wrong with the way the server works right now. 30s may be a lot, but that's good because new members need the funds to set themselves up with supplies and tools so they can get started working in wilderness (which is the assumed worst-case scenario for a new member). Since 30s = Full set iron armor, food, full set dia tools, some wood/stone, a bed or 2, and seeds the entire system seems to work. You have plenty of silver to start you time on Massivecraft from the very beginning, and you will still have some left over in the case of emergencies (like death).

Yes, the silver is worth a lot, but it is put to good use and doesn't cause the system to break. As for the increase in our silver's value, the more that comes in the less it will be worth over time.
 
There will always be economic problems but I'm just focussing on getting silver fo myself because if you're rich the economic crises' dont effect you too much
 
I think we just need to make Robin Hood and his Merry Men into account hackers and give silver to the poor people from the rich people. :)
 
That would be good but alot of people would moan about losing all there money. It would cause alot of problems
 
Several players have run lotteries. They were popular, but there was no way to tell whether they were legit or scams. (At some point it comes down to the player saying who won and how that was determined, which could be totally random or could be someone with whom he splits the money.) Shortly thereafter the ban on lotteries was started. This is to say, that there is a reason why we don't have a lottery.
 
I enjoy this idea as well, expect I would disagree with reducing faction prices.
I've been on this server a while now and have found it 'expectantly' hard to get enough money to buy a faction, even money at all really. Although this was a pain in my ass, I valued it. This means that every Tom, dick & Harry can't buy a faction. Could you imagine if they did? How much land would need to be divided up?

Some are mean't to leader, some mean't to follow. Those with the capabilities to lead will find ways to get the money together. Those who follow, will not take the time and effort to get the silver together.
 
Disabled for the scamming potential.
IMO, the staff should allow gambling, and ignore the whining mob. Scamming? Well, guess what? If, in real life, you buy a lottery ticket from a random sketchy dude, who then "draws", pays his buddy, and they split the cash and run, well it's realistic, right? And this server is roleplay, right?
 
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