Raid "abuse" And "harrassment"

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outsiderx2

Voice of Saun
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Over the past days whenever my faction (Saun) has attacked someone we have noticed a disturbing trend. Before we can even attack the faction or even get in their lands, they are screaming abuse/harrassment.

For example, we attacked and demanded tribute from a faction recently and we were told within seconds we would get banned because it was "illegal" what we were doing. I asked why, and apparently because they were allies to Valyiria, so therefore each of Valyrias allies were also allies to them. I don't know who decided this "rule" or decided it was against the rules to attack a faction, but it is becoming a bit to common.

Also, attacking a random person in the wilderness is also "abuse/harassment" nowadays as well.

Not a complaint or anything in this thread, just a general observation that has started to kinda get on my nerves.
 
Remembering the teamspeak discussion on this topic, I asked a question about such a problem, where a faction was already paying tribute to one faction. The answer then was that the faction to which tribute was being paid was responsible for defense of the faction until which time as the time of the truce terms were met and that no further tribute could be demanded by another faction. Also from the teamspeak discussion on the topic, my understanding was that with tribute added, harassment was effectively removed, with violation of the tribute conditions being the replacement.

It should be perfectly OK to continue to raid this faction with the understanding that your rp goal is to start a war with Valyria, or to demand tribute from them for not being able to defend this faction according to their truce agreement. The caveat is that if you accept tribute, then the responsibility for defense of this faction will fall on you.
 
Our RP goal is to spread evil among the land of Ithania. We don't look at who is whos ally and all that stuff. We pick a target, they either give in to our demands (pretty simple ones really) or we continue to attack within the realm of reason, such as once/twice a day for a few minutes. We do not seige land or call in massive reinforcements to completely terrorize a faction. We simply pick a target, attack and state our conditions for that faction to be removed from our radar so to speak.

But to go into a faction, hit one person with a sword (not even killing them) and having them say "OMG YOUR GONNA GET BANNED FOR THIS" is really ridiculous. We RP our faction characters when attacking, and stay within those boundaries you stated yendor.

Also to say just because a faction is allied to another doesn't mean the weaker faction paid tribute and deserves protection from the stronger one. Maybe they are allied just for the simple reason of being able to talk to each other in alliance chat? Nor does attacking one faction mean you want to start a war with all of their allies and such. People are taking the rules to an extreme and twisting the words of other players and the staff on this server. Mostly I see people twisting what Marty and Tom say to fit their needs, which is quite sad in my opinion considering how much time both of them put into this server.

Thanks for the appreciation to BSAVS
 
Honestly, this whole harassment rule should be removed. If you want people whom raid incessantly punished, put together something like Le Alliance that hunts factions that overstep there bounds.
 
I've been raided in the past, but (to the best of my knowledge) I have never a) been offered terms of surrender or b) called in abuse/harassment. Hacking, if I honestly thought such was the case, and plenty of swear words - but never abuse, never harassment. I don't believe in such things on a server that permits pvp.
 
I agree, this rule is honestly quite bad... I got banned because I killed one person. They enemied my faction and declared war, so later that day I came to their base and killed a member. Apparently they reported me for harassment. Horrible rule. Just bad.
 
Allmost every admin, including Cay has viewed this and no responce. Its sad that you cant raid without the fear of being banned.
 
Its quiet understand about, however I do not remember my faction declaring war on your... but we've been raided multiple times ourselves. I don't see much harassment, but sometimes they do go a bit far..

btw Ally my faction if you could please. my faction name is Direction. Thank you.
 
Raiding is not harassment. The people I've seen complain about 'Getting banned for raiding' are giving you a very one sided story most of the time.

The harassment rule is in effect to stop extreme cases. I've seen groups of people spawn camping bases for days, putting walls of lava around factions, and digging trenches around bases to bedrock.

Sometimes people just raid because they don't like someone and want them to leave the server.

This is harassment.

Coleman2225 said:
I agree, this rule is honestly quite bad... I got banned because I killed one person. They enemied my faction and declared war, so later that day I came to their base and killed a member. Apparently they reported me for harassment. Horrible rule. Just bad.
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Nope. I saw the ban request, screenshots, and everything else. That's a pretty one sided story.
 
Mecharic, yes we did "raid" you that one time but other than that we have stood down. We decided that you being a front runner for an Olglitrath and a banker that it would probably be best to stay on your good side.

As for the others mentioned we raided them, raiding someone does not mean you have to declare "war" on them. The one faction we wanted to declare war on has fallen, so our time devoted to them has been put elsewhere.

Response to Johnny damage...yes I have seen that and we would never do that. I've been on other servers where you can't even start a base without someone coming and claiming around it, and that is in no way fun for anyone.

But we shall continue to do what we do, record/screenshot our battles just in case someone does want to be a child one day.
 
outsiderx2 said:
Mecharic, yes we did "raid" you that one time but other than that we have stood down. We decided that you being a front runner for an Olglitrath and a banker that it would probably be best to stay on your good side.

As for the others mentioned we raided them, raiding someone does not mean you have to declare "war" on them. The one faction we wanted to declare war on has fallen, so our time devoted to them has been put elsewhere.

Response to Johnny damage...yes I have seen that and we would never do that. I've been on other servers where you can't even start a base without someone coming and claiming around it, and that is in no way fun for anyone.

But we shall continue to do what we do, record/screenshot our battles just in case someone does want to be a child one day.
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Well, you can drop the Oligarchy thing. I'm just a banker now (though you should still be careful, banks are powerful entities). And as I stated, I have nothing against raiders, regardless of who or why they raid. It is solely in the amount of raiding and the duration that decided harassment I think.
 
outsiderx2 said:
Over the past days whenever my faction (Saun) has attacked someone we have noticed a disturbing trend. Before we can even attack the faction or even get in their lands, they are screaming abuse/harrassment.

For example, we attacked and demanded tribute from a faction recently and we were told within seconds we would get banned because it was "illegal" what we were doing. I asked why, and apparently because they were allies to Valyiria, so therefore each of Valyrias allies were also allies to them. I don't know who decided this "rule" or decided it was against the rules to attack a faction, but it is becoming a bit to common.

Also, attacking a random person in the wilderness is also "abuse/harassment" nowadays as well.

Not a complaint or anything in this thread, just a general observation that has started to kinda get on my nerves.
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I've ran into issues with that faction before, they tried to pull the same trick on Pariahfolk.

I told them there and then their deal was null and void because they signed it based off a misinterpretation of a rule.

Continue to wage war and raid, and screenshot when they make any sort of statement involving a ban or punishment. Falsely claiming such things is not allowed.



Remember people, unless those you raid ask for terms of surrender, you can continue raiding untill your heart's content.
 
How about a "People whom falsely claim harassment get a temp ban" rule. That way, people will care about learning what Harassment is, and will stop spamming the mods about "oh noes they r haresing us do someting" every time a raid takes place.
 
MonMarty said:
I've ran into issues with that faction before, they tried to pull the same trick on Pariahfolk.

I told them there and then their deal was null and void because they signed it based off a misinterpretation of a rule.

Continue to wage war and raid, and screenshot when they make any sort of statement involving a ban or punishment. Falsely claiming such things is not allowed.



Remember people, unless those you raid ask for terms of surrender, you can continue raiding untill your heart's content.
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This is a little frustrating to me because our faction was only doing exactly what a different mod had told us to do. The entire deal with Valyria was overseen by a mod and we were given specific instructions to tell Valyria's allies that they could not attack us based on the treaty we made.

I feel frustrated that our faction is being called out for following the direction of a mod because it turns out that they had us doing something that another mod says isn't right. This is a case of mods not agreeing or seeing eye to eye on what was enforceable in regards to our treaty. Now that we have been told by MonMarty that what we were doing is not enforceable we have stopped responding to Valyria's allies that way, but I want to clear up that the "misinterpretation of the rule" was not on us, it was between mods. We were simply doing what we were told.

I will have you notice that only one of our member shouted that at Saun in this instance about banning them, this is because they had not been told the rule was no longer in place. Our leaders immediately told faction members that it was no longer valid and we proceeded to defend ourselves and fight without complaining about the raid.
 
MDeeDub said:
This is a little frustrating to me because our faction was only doing exactly what a different mod had told us to do. The entire deal with Valyria was overseen by a mod and we were given specific instructions to tell Valyria's allies that they could not attack us based on the treaty we made.

I feel frustrated that our faction is being called out for following the direction of a mod because it turns out that they had us doing something that another mod says isn't right. This is a case of mods not agreeing or seeing eye to eye on what was enforceable in regards to our treaty. Now that we have been told by MonMarty that what we were doing is not enforceable we have stopped responding to Valyria's allies that way, but I want to clear up that the "misinterpretation of the rule" was not on us, it was between mods. We were simply doing what we were told.

I will have you notice that only one of our member shouted that at Saun in this instance about banning them, this is because they had not been told the rule was no longer in place. Our leaders immediately told faction members that it was no longer valid and we proceeded to defend ourselves and fight without complaining about the raid.
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QFT.

Outsider, I apologize about the initial confusion. The member in question had not yet been told that the treaty we agreed to was null and void, so he was following direct orders as were we initially. The purpose of announcing to you at first, as it was told to us, was to give you fair warning about presence of such treaty, not to "trick ban" you. After we were informed that the official decision on the treaty was changed, we proceeded to defend and no longer say "get out of here or treaty violation!" You must understand, that we are ruled by law and will fully enforce man to man agreements that we have made so far as they are binding. We have no issue with you being there after that.
 
A misinterpretation of the rules is not really a crime if nobody is harmed.
 
MonMarty said:
I've ran into issues with that faction before, they tried to pull the same trick on Pariahfolk.

I told them there and then their deal was null and void because they signed it based off a misinterpretation of a rule.

Continue to wage war and raid, and screenshot when they make any sort of statement involving a ban or punishment. Falsely claiming such things is not allowed.



Remember people, unless those you raid ask for terms of surrender, you can continue raiding untill your heart's content.
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The deal with Argos was a month ago ... it involved valyria only. I told them I would try and talk to our allies since argonia was raiding them also.

As far as I know the offisl rules are as follows:
2 hour raid time with 4 hour breaks between. You can go several times a day, everyday.

You don't have to offer terms but if they ask you must make a demand. Il don't know the rules on demand limitations because I find them rediculous.
 
Jared4242 said:
How about a "People whom falsely claim harassment get a temp ban" rule. That way, people will care about learning what Harassment is, and will stop spamming the mods about "oh noes they r haresing us do someting" every time a raid takes place.
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I think the real problem here is that there is a new set of rules and it is going to take some time for people to work out exactly what they mean. I think it is a little harsh to jump to banning people who are trying to enforce rules. I can see how there can be frustration for the raiders when people keep calling harassment but unless the rules are made clearer I think it is natural for there to be a time of confusion over them while people work out the boundaries.

In our current situation with Saun for example (that has gone on way past this threads initial post without complaint from either side btw) we have recently come to a position where both sides were trying to offer terms to end the war but it turned into an argument of who's terms of surrender were enforceable. Neither side was complaining about the raid, we were just unable to come to an agreement about what it takes to end it based on the new rules.

I think people who are raiding should realize that it is not "people who falsely claim harassment" but rather a disagreement on what the rules mean, no one is trying to get someone banned by twisting rules. It is just as frustrating to the people who are claiming harassment as those who are raiding that it is not clear cut where the line is drawn.
 
Grixer said:
The deal with Argos was a month ago ... it involved valyria only. I told them I would try and talk to our allies since argonia was raiding them also.

As far as I know the offisl rules are as follows:
2 hour raid time with 4 hour breaks between. You can go several times a day, everyday.

You don't have to offer terms but if they ask you must make a demand. Il don't know the rules on demand limitations because I find them rediculous.
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I'll speak with you privately about this, because it's becoming quite clear that there is a great deal of miscommunication going on here.
 
It was more than one person claiming that. We had private messages flooding in to us as well from other factions saying the same thing

If that was the case though, then those allies and members went about it the wrong way. Yelling that out as soon as we walk into your land is really just a way of making us a bit more eager to attack. Simply saying "hey guys...we got a truce with valyria, so do you", we would have stopped and contacted Valyria to discuss it with them, possibly forming a "cease-fire" of sorts.

Can one of the mods close this thread? I feel as if the point has gotten across and one of the mods has responded to it.
 
outsiderx2 said:
It was more than one person claiming that. We had private messages flooding in to us as well from other factions saying the same thing

If that was the case though, then those allies and members went about it the wrong way. Yelling that out as soon as we walk into your land is really just a way of making us a bit more eager to attack. Simply saying "hey guys...we got a truce with valyria, so do you", we would have stopped and contacted Valyria to discuss it with them, possibly forming a "cease-fire" of sorts.

Can one of the mods close this thread? I feel as if the point has gotten across and one of the mods has responded to it.
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I agree, that people should not flood you with berating demands. No one should do or suffer that. We can't control all of what others do, but simply explain afterwards the reasoning.
 
outsiderx2 said:
It was more than one person claiming that. We had private messages flooding in to us as well from other factions saying the same thing

If that was the case though, then those allies and members went about it the wrong way. Yelling that out as soon as we walk into your land is really just a way of making us a bit more eager to attack. Simply saying "hey guys...we got a truce with valyria, so do you", we would have stopped and contacted Valyria to discuss it with them, possibly forming a "cease-fire" of sorts.

Can one of the mods close this thread? I feel as if the point has gotten across and one of the mods has responded to it.
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Agreed with Gilmania, we can't be responsible for what allies are saying to you in PM's. I'm sorry if they were doing that but we have no way to know whats going on in your private chat. This brings up the point tho that you should not take the word of allies or lower faction members when it comes to war negotiations. Our leaders never made any claims and we can't control everything other's say.
 
outsiderx2 said:
It was more than one person claiming that. We had private messages flooding in to us as well from other factions saying the same thing

If that was the case though, then those allies and members went about it the wrong way. Yelling that out as soon as we walk into your land is really just a way of making us a bit more eager to attack. Simply saying "hey guys...we got a truce with valyria, so do you", we would have stopped and contacted Valyria to discuss it with them, possibly forming a "cease-fire" of sorts.

Can one of the mods close this thread? I feel as if the point has gotten across and one of the mods has responded to it.
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Interesting. Ill be looking into this further as MonMarty said this "trick" has been Jared previously as well. Now there's an issue with Saun? Yeah this is a problem.
 
Grixer said:
Interesting. Ill be looking into this further as MonMarty said this "trick" has been Jared previously as well. Now there's an issue with Saun? Yeah this is a problem.
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As I mentioned to you privately Grixer, we were told by the mod mediator that said treaty applied to all allies, period. We are certainly not trying to "trick" anyone into anything, in fact that is the entire point of informing people from the get go about the treaty. To say "hey, there is the treaty you might not know about, here it is, this is a warning that you're breaking it". This instance with Saun was from members that were not informed about the us being told by MonMarty that that isn't a valid treaty. After they said these things to Saun, we told our members that that part of the treaty was null and void. You can even check our faction in game bulletin board that says this very thing.

Again, this is not a "trick" or malicious in any way. The only faction we, as faction leaders, told about this treaty we are now truced to and trade and talk regularly with. Definitely don't wish ill will.

Also, after the very first time we told one of your allies about the treaty, Monmarty got involved and told us our treaty was disbanded. So it's not like this is something that has happened repeatedly.

Not much more could be done in the ways of honestly dealing with a miscommunication on so many fronts.
 
Well none of the PM's were abuse. It was more or less "oh dont attack them...Valyria will kick your butt" stuff. Scare tatics to keep us away.

But if we do attack again we will make a point that we want to talk to the leaders of the faction from now on. So you can either contract us, or vice versa to talk this out in game. I'm on quite a bit and so is redsunfight.
 

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