Pending Review Quest Clerics

Discussion in 'Factions' started by GrumpyGirl314, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. GrumpyGirl314

    GrumpyGirl314 The Grumpy Hufflepuff

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    [​IMG]
    I had an idea at one point that I proposed as a way to introduce another playstyle to Massive. I actually wanted to push this forward as my Quest Rank 3 project, but the idea was shot down at very early on since Tech could create a plugin that would work better and do more (but, would take longer to implement). My idea was this: utilize two currently existing plugins on Massive to create a sort of support class to provide buffs and debuffs in pvp/pve--and, potentially, out of combat as well as a sort of Vanity magic effect. The plugins this idea utilizes are MassiveQuest and MassivePVE.
    And, thus, Quest Clerics.

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    If you participated in the PVE events during the Essalonia Revolution, you may have noticed some sparkles on the ground that gave you Regen or Speed (or, if you were unlucky and wandered into the bad sparkles, blindness--HA!). These are the ground AOE effect created by MassivePVE which, combined with MassiveQuest, can give players access to call these effects on demand.

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    There are all sorts of particles built into minecraft that we can utilize for these. They’re all over in-game, and you don’t even realize what they are. You know the weird book spell particle that comes off of the enchanting table? Yup, that’s a particle effect! You know how lava and water drips from the ceiling in a mineshaft when there’s a lava/water block above? Yes, those are particle effects too! Fireworks? Yup. Potion particles? Duh. Angry Villager smoke cloud? Yes, that too.
    All of these such particles and so many more can be utilized--and some (such as the swirlies you see around Mobs and Witches or a pot-buffed player) can have specific colors defined via Hex Codes.​

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    By utilizing the plugins that already exist, we can create such a system as this without creating any additional burden on our overworked (and very, very wonderful) Tech Team.​

    Personally, I have always been a fan of Magic and ranged attacks. I can’t tell you how many players I’ve heard comment on how boring and repetitive the click-click-click-click of button-smashing pvp is. I feel that adding a support class will offer a new playstyle which may get more players involved while bringing a new depth to the world.

    The system would be written with MassiveQuest; you can find the plugin author page of this HERE.

    The big question needing to be answered is how to initiate the quest chain to allow the players access to this system. This could mean a lengthy and difficult quest chain to be completed before gaining access, and/or a “fee” or “Cleric License” to act as an investment. Additionally, if the spells have tiers introducing different strengths of spells, the player can be made to go through another quest chain (and/or pay another fee--cause yay regal sinks!) to gain access to each tier.

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    As the system would be written using the Quest and PVE plugins, we can define and tweak a variety of parameters to balance the system as necessary.

    Here are some initial parameters which can be defined:
    • Effect Type: This can be a buff (str, speed, jump, luck, regen, haste…) or a debuff (slowness, wither, poison, harming, blindness, hunger…), or you could even do a spell that could reveal players using invisibility potions, or spawn mobs or animals.
    • Particle Effect: See the above section. There is a bit of customization here, and plenty of effects to choose from. We can also adjust the radius of the effect.
    • Strength & Time: Just as potions can have different strengths and durations, as can these Quest Cleric spells. Additionally, we could create cooldowns for spells. For more advanced or more powerful spells, we will want to add much more lengthy cooldowns (such as days or even a week) so that the spells can’t be spammed or abused.
    • Armor requirements: Ideally, the Quest Clerics should be glass cannons to allow them to be competitive but not invincible. To encourage this, we can keep them from casting spells while they have diamond or iron armor on or in their inventory.
    • Material Cost: The spells can each be given a material component required to cast the spell. This component will be consumed upon casting the spell. The quantity of the material component can be defined as well. This will require that the Quest Cleric carry around these items to cast the spells--which they will lose if they die.
      • Some Buff Options/Suggestions:
        • Sugar (speed)
        • Blaze Powder (strength)
        • Magma Cream (fire resist)
        • Ghast Tear (regen)
        • Glistering Melon (health)
        • Rabbit Foot (jump)
        • Iron Ingot (resistance)
        • Nether Quartz (absorption)
        • Carrot (haste)
        • Fern (saturation)
        • Pufferfish (waterbreathing)
      • Some Debuff Options/Suggestions:
        • Slimeball (slowness)
        • Fermented Spider Eye (weakness)
        • Spider Eye (poison)
        • Flint (harm)
        • Poison Potato (wither)
        • Mushroom (nausea)
        • Ink Sac (blindness)
        • Rotten Flesh (hunger)
        • Emerald (anti-invis)

    Here are some concerns:
    • Due to limitations of Quest and player permissions, currently these spells are only usable as an AOE centered on the player.
      • With the 1.13 Quest upgrade that is scheduled, a “There” function could possibly be added which would allow players to cast the spell centered at the point at which they are looking.
      • A “There” function for any spells would require further balancing and limitations to keep these spells from being overpowered.
      • Again, a “Glass Cannon” would be optimal for a Quest Cleric.
    • Additionally, all debuffs will also affect the spell-caster themself.
      • This could potentially be balanced by casting a tiny smaller particle effect on the spell-caster gifting them with, for example, regen or health to counter the debuff.
      • Such a balance would put some players at risk of crashing if they don’t have a computer strong enough to handle so many particles (which may be the case for them anyways if there are half a dozen Quest Clerics all in one area spamming spells).
      • However, this could also make the spell-caster have a sort of “Self-destruct” feature which would not only kill the spell-caster themself but drastically harm all those around them as well (or, as an alternative example, sacrifice themselves to grant a stronger Regen AOE for those stacked on them).
    • Currently, the best option for detecting the casting of each unique spell is using the “OnChat” function of Quest
      • This means, literally, the players will have to say magic words (Abra kadabra! Or, Lumos!) in chat to cast the spell.
      • This is literally the greatest weakness currently of this system as it requires the players to know the exact spelling of the trigger word of the spell they are trying to cast. These would have to be spelled exactly as defined, or else it will not work. Saying these trigger words in any channel may immediately cast the spell if the player has the material components (sorry, faction-buddies, I totally didn’t mean to set you on fire!).
      • However, with the 1.13 Quest upgrade, we would have the option to allow players to cast the spells with magic items (like a lore stick--HA!) or restrict them to only being able to cast with said magic/lore item in their inventory.
    • A spell book would be necessary for each tier of magic to outline the costs of the spells at each tier as well as their effects.
      • How to obtain this? What happens if it’s dropped on death?

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    System to create a support class to be used in PVE and PVP
    Created with MassiveQuest and MassivePVE, creating no additional burden on Tech Staff
    Customizable parameters such as:
    -Effect type
    -Effect visualization
    -Effect strength & duration
    -AOE effect radius
    -Material Costs
    -Cooldowns
    Quest Clerics would be balanced as Glass Cannons
    Can define a quest “journey” to be achieved prior to accessing the abilities
    Different tiers with progressing effect strength can be created
    As the Quest-writing code is publicly available, this system can be designed and written entirely by players
     
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  2. Chalsie

    Chalsie Supremium

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    While I don't have a lot of experience with the only thing I can compare this to (bard class on pvp servers) as I remember it was a fun class and people who learned how to utilize the abilities strategically made pvp fun and effective. It'd definitely be open to seeing how something like this would fare on massive.
     
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  3. Morbytogan

    Morbytogan King of Desolation, Emperor of the Isolated Empire

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    Looks cool. I’d like to add that with certain particles there are THOUSANDS of different colours you can use, and they all have unique NBT (meaning you can make custom potion effects using commands based on the NBT) which is fun.
     
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  4. poilet66

    poilet66 M4ST3R R3N0V8R

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    Looks cool - my main critique is that if clerics had to use gold armour then armour damage (especially via axes) would have to be nerfed. Diamond armour already behaves like gold in terms of durability against people with 2k+ axes.

    Easy solution is add armour damage cap or just buff gold armour durability (the latter seems like a worse solution but if it works it works?)
     
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  5. ZiHAMMER

    ZiHAMMER Violettee is a transgender

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    junk
     
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  6. SirePyro

    SirePyro The Definition of Insanity Supremium

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    An interesting idea to be sure, I'd be down for seeing this in-game.
     
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  7. Emkaloua

    Emkaloua Regalian Senator

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    yes pleez gib me the yommy majics gud werk i apruv BUT

    What does AOE stand for? Axis of Effect? Apples or Eggplants? answered

    Would an installation like this be before or after MassiveMobs? I'm just concerned on where people would get rabbit feet. There's lore of it, which is why I'm concerned about the expendability of the buff/debuff materials, because what if you only have some super rare lore for rabbit feet and it eats it all up?

    Massive doesn't really spawn regular mobs in the wild, so no rabbits unless you somehow have them and farmed them, which I seriously doubt anyone on the server has tried to do (because it wouldn't have been worth it) on the off-chance they've seen a rabbit.

    Hopefully the "spawning animals spell" might include something like this--unless it's like old MassiveMagic where you can't really harvest anything and they disappear shortly, which is important but also counter-productive. You don't want to flood the market with meats and leather and all those animal products, but then, how do you get enough of it otherwise? (Specifically in the case of rabbits.)

    Could this spell maybe be a form of the now-disabled taming features, e.g. spawn a horse with 10 apples? You have to make two and breed them to get a permanent animal, which worked fine in my opinion. The only problem with applying that to the rabbits would, again, be the market influx. The animals you could spawn don't drop anything useful, they themselves were. Also I killed my cat in a freak fishing accident and now I can't spawn a new friend. :(


    Note: I'm editing this way more than I probably should; I'm still rereading for like the 70th time and rephrasing my questions/concerns a lot. Sorry if that screws up any replies D:
     
    #7 Emkaloua, Oct 6, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  8. SirePyro

    SirePyro The Definition of Insanity Supremium

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    Not sure whether or not this is a joke, but in pretty much every gaming context I'm aware of, AOE stands for Area of Effect. As to whether that was the intention here... gonna have to pass that on to @GrumpyGirl314, but my guess is yes
     
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  9. Emkaloua

    Emkaloua Regalian Senator

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    Yeah, the first one was a genuine guess and the second was a joke. Thanks for answering <3
     
  10. SirePyro

    SirePyro The Definition of Insanity Supremium

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    ;)
     
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  11. AgentLew

    AgentLew G.D.R.

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    Whew, certainly a lot to take into consideration, though I like the concept(we do need more than just click-click-click PvP).
    As far as these reagents are concerned, I think they're fitting for basic level spells. Maybe the higher tier spells could cost custom crafted items? In regards to the higher tier spells, there are several approaches we can take to them in my eyes: upgrade area of effect, upgrade tier of effect(speed 1 to speed 2), or compound effects(maybe like Anti-Invis and Slowness).
    How to obtain the spell-books? Hmm, maybe basic tier can be crafted or found via quests. As far as higher tier books, maybe dungeons?
     
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  12. GrumpyGirl314

    GrumpyGirl314 The Grumpy Hufflepuff

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    Why would it need to be nerfed? If gear is breaking, it would cause the economy for such items to perk up again.


    1. AOE = Area of Effect. So, you stand on block 0 and the particles would surround you on the ground in a defined radius. (So, ir R=3, it would spread out 3blocks wide in all directions from where you are standing)
    2. Can be done before, depends how long coding takes once the logic is built in a balanced way. It doesn't relate to MassiveMobs but could correlate and communicate with.
    3. That's a good concern--rabbit feet are indeed super rare atm. But we could switch out the item for anything we want--which is why I made this post. Also, if you're casting the spells, you shouldn't carry lore items around just in case--but this brings up another concern. If we're using magic words, (for example, "Pizza") you would have to specifically say that magic word. So if you're running around in regalia and say "Would you like pizza?" it won't trigger. If you say "Pizza?" it won't trigger. If you say "PiZzA" it will trigger if you have the items and meet all the conditions to casting that spell.
    4. Come visit Enigma. Bring carrots.
    5. That's exactly something else that needs to be considered. But, we could, for example, require 2000 leather to spawn one rabbit--and only allow the spell once a month. And for the rabbit feet--maybe we use slime balls instead of rabbit feet?
    6. Yes.
     
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  13. GrumpyGirl314

    GrumpyGirl314 The Grumpy Hufflepuff

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    YES! Again, just gotta figure out how best to do this in a way that will be competitive but balanced--especially in PVP.

    Could do any combination. The tier 1 costs could just cost somewhere between 3-10 of each item (as well as the cooldown, mind you). Tier 2 could be stronger and have a further AOE range. Tier 3 could be even stronger and--potentially--introduce the "There" function at that time for special spells. The issue with more tiers and combo-effects (which is indeed possible) is that... again, we're restricted currently to OnChat triggers--so, magic words. How many magic words do you want to have memorized to type out in the middle of a raid on Arthas? We also have to consider.... if a player upgrades to tier1, do all the magic words stay the same and they lose access to the tier1 spells? Or, should they have longer versions of the same words for tier 2 and still allow access to the tier1 spells? (if I want to kill a chicken with a fireball, I'm not going to want to use a dozen of a material just to cast a spell just to feel like a badass for killing a chicken. xD)

    Good call on dungeon loot. I like this.
     
  14. SirePyro

    SirePyro The Definition of Insanity Supremium

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    Would this extend to backpacks, then? Would clerics be permitted to wear enchanted gold armor or no? I'll also note that gold armor possesses just over half the defensive power (11/20) of diamond, so these spells are going to need to be pretty powerful. Is there any restriction on the weapons the clerics can use, or could they in theory use the same god bows, swords and axes as their "regular" opponents?

    The problem I see with this is that for many players, excluding the newest, regals are fairly easy to obtain, making regal sinks pointless here unless the amounts are truly exorbitant. I don't know how difficult a quest could be, so it might work here. I also like the idea of a license, though I'm not sure how that would work. Another possible issue I see is that this seems to be presented as a pvp alternative (click click click OR use spells), while it also currently would have a much higher bar of entry - a fee and hard questline are harder for new players than just grinding for a bit to get dia gear.
     
  15. MDJTHEHERO

    MDJTHEHERO Beggar

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    Will need diamond armor or its just gonna get killed by the high damage on massivecraft
     
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  16. GrumpyGirl314

    GrumpyGirl314 The Grumpy Hufflepuff

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    Backpacks don't count because it's like a separate inventory--think of it like your ender chest.
    The armor is entirely up for debate--and as @MDJTHEHERO suggested, perhaps it's better to allow them to wear diamond armor so that they'll last more than two seconds out in pvp (which is a great point), but this sort of balancing discussion is exactly why I started this thread so that we can all discuss how to balance this in a way that will be enjoyable and competitive--without being overpowered. Potentially, we could even grant them a buff if they're wearing leather armor, for example.

    No restrictions--but we could if we wanted. I would say no restrictions, but the fact that they CAN use these god weps AND the spells is the reason why I originally thought no diamond armor--to act as a balance.


    I would encourage any regal amount invested into this system to be a minimum of 1k--such as for the fee--specifically for sink reasons. For new players, they could grind regals while darkrooming which would also grind their mcmmo--so, yay! However, we can change the fee to whatever we would like to be. The quest code for this is literally...
    /q e ToAdvance IfHaveMoney X
    /q e OnComplete DoLoseMoney X

    With X being whatever regal amount we define. It is also fairly simple to change these variables live as well--so if tweaks are needed later, we'd simply have to bother a staff with Quest perms to change the quest node.
    Also, I don't feel that more hoops to jump through to gain access to this system would be a bad thing. It would present a small-ish challenge and new content for existing players while also giving brand new players something to grind for--an endgame goal. You can grind for dia armor and such on any minecraft server... but how many servers allow you to literally cast magic as a support class? And, magic is badass and so cool.
     
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  17. onearmsquid

    onearmsquid Padawan Learner

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  18. SirePyro

    SirePyro The Definition of Insanity Supremium

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    As I think about it, I'm not sure a restriction on anything other than armor worn would be necessary. Allowing clerics to have "normal" armor they could switch to when they have a quiet moment would allow them to essentially change classes in between fights, which sounds pretty cool to me. Different tiers of magic were suggested, so possibly clerics could have a resistance spell of sorts that leveled as they advanced up the tiers. That way their "armor"(possibly this would also cause all armor to, for them, provide the same level of protection, leather or gold level) would be dependent on their personal progression, like different MCMMO levels in combat. I know that's a pretty chaotic explanation, but I hope my idea was clear. I just think that a unique armor system for clerics relative to regular pvpers might be cool.

    True, a fresh endgoal for new players isn't a bad idea of course, though I will note that they would be aspiring to an alternative to normal gameplay, not necessarily an actual improvement(depending on their preferences). That being said, that all seems well and good for starting players, especially once MassiveMobs is reintroduced. Would that 1k+ sink be a one time payment, or recurring, or a set of payments to level up? I kind of envision this as almost a sort of MCMMO skill that you pay (a minimum of) 1k regals to unlock, then level up with continued use, unlocking more abilities as you do so. I notice @AgentLew mentioned the possibility of finding higher spell books in dungeons. How would that work exactly? To be honest, I've never been able to get a clear answer on how the new dungeons are going to work, so I'm not sure how spellbooks would work in conjunction with them.

    ...I got nothing to add to that :thumbsup:
     
  19. AlcibiadesS

    AlcibiadesS

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    So basically mage armor from D&D, but as they progress in tiers of magic, it gets stronger. (First level cast might be as strong as leather, second might be as strong as gold, third chainmail, so on). Of course you can adjust those values since they would be applied through generic.armor and generic.armorToughness or possibly the Resistance effect. (Resistance being the much more limited solution to a spell like this one)

    Additionally, that's another thing. You talk about prohibiting iron and diamond armor and leaving leather and gold. But chainmail is stronger than both leather and gold, albeit only up to having 12/20 as opposed to the 11/20 for gold. Just another thing to think about when it comes to limiting armors, as chainmail is readily available on the server, if you wish to make it. I'd be for mages wearing up to chainmail, if this route were to be the best way to balance.

    Furthermore, if you wanted to balance them another way as well you could also use the MassiveTrait system. You can already lock certain traits behind the requirements of "finding" them, if that does work. Then take that and make your cleric license a trait. First you have to find it to unlock it (completing the license). Then you set it to be a +300 or +400 or some decently high number like that. Essentially forcing them to take Unholy and some Vulnerabilities and limiting their choice in other traits. Want to beat a mage? They'll usually be weak against holy or certain types of damage or unable to use weapons well (Inept traits) and rarely have access things like the Expert, Strike, and Revenge, as well as buff traits commonly used in PvP. While they might be able to fit some of these in with their points left over, they'd be very limited. They might also be able to imitate some of the buffs from traits through their own spells, but of course at that point they'd have to go through the limitations of spell cooldowns, material costs, and spending the time/regals to learn the spell itself.
     
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  20. Morbytogan

    Morbytogan King of Desolation, Emperor of the Isolated Empire

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    Seems good - one thing to remember though is that they will be able to carry fewer potions as they will have to carry the items the spells cost, so maybe limiting their armour wouldn’t be a good idea unless they can get a passive resistance effect (like bards get on HCF).
     

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