Archived [query/suggestion] Turn Server Into Spongeforge Server

[XxXYaJrAbXxX]

This is more of a query rather than an actual idea as I am not entirely sure it can be done. I was thinking if we were to turn the server into a SpongeForge server, it would reduce the amount of players who would get banned for "Radar" or using "Illegal mods". I say this because if you were to run a server with SpongeForge, it asks the client what mods they are running, this would point out any illegal mods such as Xray or radar if it is using the forge client to load the mod that is. Now people might wonder, "Wait, if the server was to go to a forge server, does that mean I have to have a client with mods?" The answer to this question is no. If the server is to use server only mods then it would allow vanilla players to join. SpongeForge even has been compiled to spigot which would allow sharding to continue as well.

The real reason I am suggesting this is due to people using mods such as Journeymap or BetterPvP (Full client) which has radar built in, if the server was made into a forge server, you can add the server side mod which will restrict specific parts of the mod working like radar hence allowing more mods but less people get banned. It also gives the benefit of adding server only mods which gives in game features but instead of being built against spigot, they are built against forgeAPI. Any one able to elaborate or share any views on this are welcome.

Overall here are the points made:

Less bans for "cheating" or "hacks"
More of a level playing field for players
Able to limit client side mod features if they have built in radar etc.
Able to see if there is any illegal mods/client such as nodus
Vanilla players don't need to download the clientside version as well to be able to play​

Thanks

 

[Zacatero]

I believe the server currently runs Spigot (though i may be wrong on this, im not as familliar with the different kinds as some might be)

I do not think this would be beneficial since Massivecraft has a lot of plugins that run in the Spigot enviornment, and even if we do change, the staff would then have to maintain the plugins in two separate environments, one for SpongeForge, and one for Spigot since there are a lot of other servers who use Massivecraft plugins

 

[XxXYaJrAbXxX]

I believe the server currently runs Spigot (though i may be wrong on this, im not as familliar with the different kinds as some might be)

I do not think this would be beneficial since Massivecraft has a lot of plugins that run in the Spigot enviornment, and even if we do change, the staff would then have to maintain the plugins in two separate environments, one for SpongeForge, and one for Spigot since there are a lot of other servers who use Massivecraft plugins

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SpongeForge is compiled with ForgeAPI, SpigotAPI as well as BukkitAPI, basically, spigot plugins will work on this environment and staff only need to maintain the Spigot/Bukkit plugins like they already do. The forgeAPI is to limit the mods or even add new features with server side mods which are essentially plugins built to ForgeAPI giving the option of adding forge plugins as well.

 

[TheComputerGeek2]

@XxXYaJrAbXxX Sponge is actually still relatively new and buggy from what I've seen. Despite the promise of it being compatible with both the forge and spigot api, the promise is only semi fulfilled, you effectively end up with the worst of both worlds.

As for your point of reducing the number of cheat client incidents, you're going to have to elaborate on that as a decent cheat client would simply not identify itself as having those cheats, but more likely as a vanilla client. The idea of NOT identifying your mods to the server is a core one in many clients, especially those classed as ghost clients. So how would going spongeforge help with this?

 

[XxXYaJrAbXxX]

@XxXYaJrAbXxX Sponge is actually still relatively new and buggy from what I've seen. Despite the promise of it being compatible with both the forge and spigot api, the promise is only semi fulfilled, you effectively end up with the worst of both worlds.

As for your point of reducing the number of cheat client incidents, you're going to have to elaborate on that as a decent cheat client would simply not identify itself as having those cheats, but more likely as a vanilla client. The idea of NOT identifying your mods to the server is a core one in many clients, especially those classed as ghost clients. So how would going spongeforge help with this?

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Again, any mod such as JourneyMap is able to have features such as radar disabled and the same for most mods if staff deem them as unfair and cheating. I have used SpongeForge before on modded servers and never seem to have many problems if any. From what I have seen either way, SpongeAPI is the leading forge server software as a majority of coders from Bukkit, Cauldron and MCPC+ have moved to this development group and is highly recommended in the Forge modding community.

 

[TheComputerGeek2]

Again, any mod such as JourneyMap is able to have features such as radar disabled and the same for most mods if staff deem them as unfair and cheating. I have used SpongeForge before on modded servers and never seem to have many problems if any. From what I have seen either way, SpongeAPI is the leading forge server software as a majority of coders from Bukkit, Cauldron and MCPC+ have moved to this development group and is highly recommended in the Forge modding community.

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Do you have evidence that the use of SpongeForge to limit client side mods is in fact the reason for the reduced cheating incidents? Given that this is a significantly different type of server, I have some question as to if there are even a comparable number of attempts. Running a full modded server which expects client mods attracts a different audience than servers which accept vanilla clients.

I would also like to bring up another point which I forgot to address earlier which is that switching to SpongeForge will break a lot of plugins due to their reflective use of nms and obc access. If I recall correctly, this tends to be problematic when running on things such as Cauldron or SpongeForge.

Based upon what my current knowledge set is, I don't believe that there is sufficient reason to move to SpongeForge.

 

[Kaezir]

Personally, this seems like an unecessary complication of things. There's no telling how much time, testing, or research would need to be put into this.

 

[XxXYaJrAbXxX]

Do you have evidence that the use of SpongeForge to limit client side mods is in fact the reason for the reduced cheating incidents? Given that this is a significantly different type of server, I have some question as to if there are even a comparable number of attempts. Running a full modded server which expects client mods attracts a different audience than servers which accept vanilla clients.

I would also like to bring up another point which I forgot to address earlier which is that switching to SpongeForge will break a lot of plugins due to their reflective use of nms and obc access. If I recall correctly, this tends to be problematic when running on things such as Cauldron or SpongeForge.

Based upon what my current knowledge set is, I don't believe that there is sufficient reason to move to SpongeForge.

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Yes I do have proof that it will remove radar from mods such as journeymap when the creators of these mods have developed the server side mod. From what I can tell you lack the knowledge of modded minecraft and when you say it is "new" it is just as new as Spigot is as it was founded when the DMCA request happened. Also unless someone has developed the crappest plugin that is so sensitive to only run on a specific version of a Spigot build (build is the subversion of a minecraft version, tends to make a new build to fix a problem with the previous build for the same version of MC), no plugin will break.

 

[TheComputerGeek2]

Yes I do have proof that it will remove radar from mods such as journeymap when the creators of these mods have developed the server side mod. From what I can tell you lack the knowledge of modded minecraft and when you say it is "new" it is just as new as Spigot is as it was founded when the DMCA request happened. Also unless someone has developed the crappest plugin that is so sensitive to only run on a specific version of a Spigot build (build is the subversion of a minecraft version, tends to make a new build to fix a problem with the previous build for the same version of MC), no plugin will break.

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Do you have proof of any other cheat engines being blocked? The majority of what you are talking about is blocking mods that aren't even intended to be used for cheating in the first place. For the most part, we are fairly effective at already dealing with people who use simple methods of cheating, so this would be a poor use of time, the tech team already has enough on their plates.

Spigot actually has existed prior to the DMCA, but became a lot more popular at that time. Furthermore, I highly recommend that you take a look at the server's open source projects before you make judgements about them hooking in to specific versions of Minecraft.

As for my experience with modding, I've actually done a bit of it myself, so I have experience in both fields. While my experience with Bukkit is much more extensive, I would not call myself ignorant as to forge platforms. So I am very well aware of what a build is, perhaps you feel that you are an expert on these matters? Put your code where your mouth is.

 

[XxXYaJrAbXxX]

Personally, this seems like an unecessary complication of things. There's no telling how much time, testing, or research would need to be put into this.

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I could test it myself if you want to see results before you see it as viable. I think more techy people should display more views on this before people judge (Not talking about you @Kaezir but as a general of people) as a lot of people may not know what is affected and may say it is incompatable when it isn't at all. I am not sure of the results myself as I haven't looked into this in depth but the things I can guaruntee that plugins will work normally and it will be more beneficial and it may even have better stability than Spigot.

 

[XxXYaJrAbXxX]

Do you have proof of any other cheat engines being blocked? The majority of what you are talking about is blocking mods that aren't even intended to be used for cheating in the first place. For the most part, we are fairly effective at already dealing with people who use simple methods of cheating, so this would be a poor use of time, the tech team already has enough on their plates.

Spigot actually has existed prior to the DMCA, but became a lot more popular at that time. Furthermore, I highly recommend that you take a look at the server's open source projects before you make judgements about them hooking in to specific versions of Minecraft.

As for my experience with modding, I've actually done a bit of it myself, so I have experience in both fields. While my experience with Bukkit is much more extensive, I would not call myself ignorant as to forge platforms. So I am very well aware of what a build is, perhaps you feel that you are an expert on these matters? Put your code where your mouth is.

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Java isn't my primary language as I code logically not object orientated but sure: https://github.com/RPGuilds/RPGuildsAPI/tree/XxXYaJrAbXxX/bin

@TheComputerGeek2, I dont think you understand what I am trying to get across.

Anyway, as for the current system of sorting out cheating, the system is as follows: Caught cheating -> Ban. Even if they didn't mean to cheat for using a well known minimap mod, they can get banned for it. For example, Hack9595 I am sure some people may remember, he got banned for using Zan's minimap as it had radar enabled. If however the server was using a forgeAPI you could have the server side matching mod to go with to disable the radar feature. And as for people who are called out for cheating or have hacks, if they have forge and are using mods they will be broadcasted to the server which will identify the mods, hacked clients such as Nodus do not work with forge and would be able to filter out genuine modders with hackers as someone who is registered as a vanilla player may be moving too fast or flying or presenting suspicous activity etc.

 

[Kaezir]

I could test it myself if you want to see results before you see it as viable. I think more techy people should display more views on this before people judge (Not talking about you @Kaezir but as a general of people) as a lot of people may not know what is affected and may say it is incompatable when it isn't at all. I am not sure of the results myself as I haven't looked into this in depth but the things I can guaruntee that plugins will work normally and it will be more beneficial and it may even have better stability than Spigot.

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Since I would probably have no idea what I'm talking about here. I don't think Id see this happening on the horizon any time soon if at all but @ulumulu1510 would be able to inform you I imagine.

 

[XxXYaJrAbXxX]

Since I would probably have no idea what I'm talking about here. I don't think Id see this happening on the horizon any time soon if at all but @ulumulu1510 would be able to inform you I imagine.

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Thank you, I don't think it would happen any time soon either but it is a suggestion and it may open new doors to Massivecraft and presents new options for the server.

 

[65jes89]

Meronat: Will Factions be converted to Sponge?
No I do not think so. Sponge is a great idea but till it actually succeeds as a project I will assume Sponge is going to fail. Spigot is the current industry standard and that is going to be very hard to change. Even though Sponge has a better API and better licensing, most good plugins are made for Spigot and don't exist for Sponge. The players on MassiveCraft just want the sever to be stable and work. They don't care whether we run Spigot or Sponge, right? Say I spend half a year porting all our plugins to Sponge. We could still not switch over to Sponge because Citizens and mcMMO and most other great plugins aren't converted.

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Frankly, I'm inclined to agree with computergeek. I don't really see a huge issue with cheaters on Massive. Sure, if it catches the occasional person, whatever. But I don't really think it'd be worth it.

 

[Zacatero]

Honestly of all the cheaters, i dont think radar map cheaters are the biggest threat at all. Let alone big enough to switch formats like this

 

[Zacatero]

But other than the potential of easier hack tracking or whatever.. what other benefits would come from switching that would outweigh staying with Spigot (?)

 

[TheComputerGeek2]

@XxXYaJrAbXxX quite simply, the benefit of going spongeforge is outweighed by the work needed to go into making the server spongeforge compatible. As MonMarty once told me, it isn't worth it to spend more than 10 minutes on some trolls that come up every 5 years. Now, I understand that we have people cheating a little more often than ever 5 years, but by no means does this warrant migrating the server to a new platform.