Pvp Is Rediculous.

Discussion in 'Feature & Idea Discussion - Archive' started by JeanLucMontou, Jul 15, 2014.

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Do you think pvp needs to be altered?

  1. No, I like killing people for no reason and/or being killed for no reason.

    72.7%
  2. Yes, it makes the game boring and/or frustrating.

    27.3%
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  1. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    I didn't even know you were talking about the world spawns at all. I personally don't understand how safezones have any connection to a thread about PvP, but ok.
     
  2. Tuxyz

    Tuxyz Leader of Eastwood

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    The only stat that reduces damage taken is acrobatics which gives 20% dodge change, that's it.

    Just wanted to put it out there, stats do not make for gods, potions, traits & gear > stats.
     
  3. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    This poll is very subjectively written, almost like you want to force people into giving the answer that you want to see.

    ho-ho.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. JeanLucMontou

    JeanLucMontou High Lord of the Order of Eclipse

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    Well I wrote the bottom like for both choices. That's the basics of either choice. Just because I didn't sugarcoat it doesn't make it to where I'm forcing anyone.
     
  5. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    It seems that disabling enderpearls is a logical solution/compromise. If you have gone to the trouble of building walls and traps in order to fortify your home it makes sense that raiders/bandits should have a difficult task finding a way in. That splits the onus in half. Factions are responsible for/motivated to fortify their walls and defenses, and raiders are responsible for/motivated to get clever and find a way in.
     
  6. Alj23

    Alj23 Regalian Citizen

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    Consider the following...

    If a wall is created this is 100% secure and complete, meaning no gaps in the wall anywhere, and enderpearls are removed, how do you even expect raiders to get into the walls? Honestly it doesn't come down to being clever. If this were to happen, I see a lot of factions making allies with one of their enemies for the sole reason of portal hopping until they end up in the enemy base, or jumping factions to abuse their way into a base, which is not allowed.

    Also, enderpearls aren't just used to scale over people's walls. They are used in active PVP to escape near death situations. While it's true a few more kills might become the norm per raid, it would create much frustration trying to adapt to a change that has removed an aspect of PVP that has always been on this server.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    I don't expect them to under these circumstances and fail to see a problem there. Real Effort (eg good fortification) ought to yield Real Reward (difficult/impossible to raid). Just as the effort we spend leveling stats and aquiring better gear yield us better results in combat.

    If bases are able to be accessed by a quick pearl (what on earth would the medieval equivalent be by the way) then it is disincentivizing to those who prefer to play and contribute to the server in other ways.
    This would need to be enforced by staff. Worrying that players "might" do something which is clearly against the rules anyhow isn't a great argument for not implementing change.

    This also seems a bit like pvp hopping. If someone has not EARNED an ability to be agile enough to escape combat or death then why should they be able to?
     
    #47 Muireann_Alessa, Jul 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
  8. Alj23

    Alj23 Regalian Citizen

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    I don't like the idea of a base being impossible to raid. All bases should be raidable. A person should not be able to build a wall that people can't scale without enderpearls, and then say "Oh well, looks like you can't raid me and I'll live the rest of my MassiveCraft days in uninterrupted bliss", even thought this is a medieval fantasy server where people might be raided by bandits every day.

    Not implementing the change that would cause these numerous rule breaks is a good argument for not making the change.

    No one EARNS the ability to escape a hacker. Enderpearls and splashing all your health potions down is literally the only way to survive a hacker who is using FF/Kill Aura combined with an Auto Clicker. You will literally be honed in on and killed within moments if you can't either heal yourself up fast enough and turn around and deal the damage to back them off you, or stay alive until your pearl lands. 9/10 times, the hacker out-damages the legit player, making option one not the preferred method of choice.
     
  9. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    Playing Devil's Advocate a bit here. Why "should" all bases be raidable? And if someone works hard to earn a relatively peaceful existence is that not their right and prerogative? Risk still exists in the wilderness, as it should. Historically a well-built city/fortress was very difficult if not impossible to penetrate. Thus it makes sense to me that one could choose to spend their hours on building and security rather than building up stats, (two perfectly legitimate gameplay strategies) and have a net gain. Or are you saying the only allowable way to defend oneself ought to be MCMMO?


    And what of players who decide it isn't worth the risk of having magical portals that whisk them off to their allies-for-the-day? That comes down to choice on the players. Convenience = risk. But I can understand from a staff point of view the concern. It is likely to increase your workload and thus the need to have more moderators in game and answering tickets.


    Sure. I wasn't taking into account hackers. If it is that prevalent it sounds to me that some better anti-cheat systems are in order.

    In conclusion I will share something with you. I am an Admin on another RP/PVP server with 200 slots. I decline to say how old I am but let's just leave it at I remember very well when Nirvana was brand new and The Cure had new content on MTV. ;) I am also a wife and mother of two.

    This server (in my opinion) does a far better job at providing the foundational structure of RP, creating a point of balance for other things. The reality is it's pretty much impossible to reason with the "no one should be safe from me I should be able to kill anyone anytime" mentality. This is a common theme across every RP/PVP server I have seen. I liken it to kids in a sandbox. Some people are there to build castles, some want to go knock down the castles and steal toys. That is not the same as a consensual game of "keep away," (or in this instance consensual PVP.)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Alj23

    Alj23 Regalian Citizen

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    Going off of your two gameplay strategies... Having one and not the other isn't a smart idea on this server. Say we disable enderpearls. Once the raiders have gotten in to your base, whether it be through a hole in your wall or paying of one off your allies for a portal (because the assumption that a base will become completely unraidable is just absurd) , your last line of defense is any traps you might have. If you don't have any traps, or they just happen to not be caught by them, you're next line of defense is MCMMO to fight back. If you didn't train your stats because you were too busy building, then you're up a creek without a paddle. I'd say in the most sensible way, designate fighters, and designate builders.

    I guess we all have to come to accept that in every server we run across that has a PVP side to it, there will always be those who think they are better than others and they will rule the server.
     
  11. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    I totally agree with this. And what makes it even more interesting is the level of strategy it would require on both "sides" if you will. The strongest and smartest factions will be the ones who are well-diversified. ;)
     
  12. Winterless

    Winterless would never ERP
    1. Argost

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    1. It's very selfish putting your own enjoyment before others. Don't like getting raided? Too bad, they clearly state it is an RP/PvP server
    2. I have grinded my MCMMO sword level for about a week (with a good darkroom, props to CivitasAurum) and my swords went from 50 to 440. it's not hard to get MCMMO ranked up and defend yourself, most people that complain about it are just lazy. Plain and simple.
     
  13. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    The blatant double standard in this statement just made me have to lol.
     
  14. Winterless

    Winterless would never ERP
    1. Argost

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    Yeah I know. That is the hard bit of this discussion, how to balance it :/
     
  15. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    Actually there is no balancing when one person's idea of fun comes at the expense of someone else's.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    To be frank, no matter how you go about this there will be people who lose out. If PvP is expanded, PvPers have fun at the expense of peaceful players. If PvP is restricted the RPers have fun at PvPers expense. The middle ground, as it is, would be to make sure that raiding is possible, but not as easy as "oh, a base, enderpearl, enemy, SLAUGHTER".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Winterless

    Winterless would never ERP
    1. Argost

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  18. Alj23

    Alj23 Regalian Citizen

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    And the 30% Damage reduction when being in faction territory is a perfect example of an attempted fix that went wrong. Big PVPers abuse it in their own faction land ,and become almost un-killable due to the resistance/absorption effects they run, and then the faction buff on top of all that. It also isn't an advantage to players who aren't armored in god armor, as no damage reduction buff is going to help if your armor is crap.
     
  19. Winterless

    Winterless would never ERP
    1. Argost

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    Yeah glad that got removed. But when you finally get god armour, you feel proud of yourself knowing you can wreck everyone lol
     
  20. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    I've yet to see a PvPers suggest something that helps the peaceful folks*. Why don't you be the first to do so, instead of pointing out how things go wrong?

    *Disclaimer: I may have missed a post of that nature. Regardless, suggestions would be more useful that hate-ons.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    Hmmm...I have to disagree that RPers have fun at PvPers' expense. What if players had the ability to, with a mere word, thwart and interrupt a raid? Lol. Now that would be something. "You there foul bloodthirsty brigand! What business hast thou hither? I shall smite thee with my typing!" (./disarm)

    *giggles*

    Hmmm yeah doesnt quite work out. How about, "Oh I apologize. Am I selfishly not considering your right to have fun by desiring you to NOT slaughter me and steal my valuables? So sorry old chap. What shall it be, blades or....?"

    Pvp requires a target. When that target is unwilling/uninterested it is not a fight it is an execution.

    That said when the peaceful folk devise a way to bludgeon the bloodthirsty with RP it will be something to see! Lol.
     
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  22. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    -suggests new command, the /BludgeonToDeath command. It works by type /Bludgeon Playername Damage. RPers rulez teh worldz-
     
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  23. 65jes89

    65jes89 Leader of SunKiss
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    You realize, that if enderpearls were disabled, almot no bases would be raidable? Put up a 3 high cobble wall around your faction, cut down a few trees, and you now have your completely unraidable base! All it took was 15 stacks of cobble and 30 minutes, but now my 30 minites of effort automatically wins over any raiders, no matter how much effort they put forth trying to get in. And role-play wise, it doesn't make sense that a 9 foot wall, regardless of the material, can keep anyone out.
     
  24. Winterless

    Winterless would never ERP
    1. Argost

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    Agreed
     
  25. JeanLucMontou

    JeanLucMontou High Lord of the Order of Eclipse

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    A lot of these points are good. It's the brass and tacks that catch it in the soft spot. Enderpearl removal is my favorite, mainly because I am a huge realism guy. I love building strategically. I love building period. It would be nice if my building did anything for a change. Now I'll admit, the only way anyone has gotten into the keep of my fac is by being let in by a faction jumper from the enemy fac, so the enderers usually get trapped in my wall. The truth of it is, we aren't all kids on summer break. Some of us only have about 10 hours a week to play so that 2 hours PER faction tend to use up my valuable massive time. I train in a dark room ALOT. I like to think my MCMMO stats are just now becoming decent compared to the 30,000 axes people. (Yes I know dmg maxes at 200 and so on but you get my point. No lifers) but something about this pvp has to change. I'm not always raided and even when I am, it's hardly serious, but the raiders should have to work harder than the defenders in my opinion. It's too easy for them to make their earnings as is. I like the reward for work idea about enderpearling. What if it was a perm on fac land? That wouldn't eliminate them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. JeanLucMontou

    JeanLucMontou High Lord of the Order of Eclipse

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    That's not true. You can make a seige tower (please God don't encourage those awful 1 block pillars) and jump a 3 high wall. That's the type of enginuity that raiders need. If you go around throwing your hands in the air and vomiting from the mental exertion required to come up with how to get over a 3 high wall... Then you shouldn't be raiding and even if you do, you clearly haven't worked hard enough for that raid tribute.
     
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  27. Winterless

    Winterless would never ERP
    1. Argost

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    Other than the fact that you can't build in enemy territory? Just work on your pvp skills and you will have more fun then sitting on the forums complaining about it lol. Defending is quite fun, so you should embrace it when someone tries to raid you.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  28. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Defending is only fun if you can survive. And not everyone enjoys PvP, so even if they can survive it may not be fun for them. I personally prefer the idea of a Warclaim ability that would allow people to temporarily build on enemy territory and break in - but would alert the defenders of the attack. That way they can at least start running before they die.
     
  29. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    Really? Wow I had no idea people in the Middle Ages had the ability to jump over 9 ft walls! ;)
     
  30. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    I know a lot of PvPers who would rather carve their eyes out with rusty butter knives than be subjected to sitting through an RP poetry reading or Tea Party. Maybe they should just get over it since some of us think its fun to force it down their throats?

    Yeah...no. The argument goes both ways like it or not.
     
  31. 65jes89

    65jes89 Leader of SunKiss
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    Excpet when they claim the walls and surrounding ares, think of that? Or is there too much mental exertion involved with that?
     
  32. 65jes89

    65jes89 Leader of SunKiss
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    I realize you can't jump a 9 foot wall. You could however climb over a 9 foot wall without too much difficulty.
     
  33. 65jes89

    65jes89 Leader of SunKiss
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    I realize you can't jump a 9 foot wall. You could however climb over a 9 foot wall without too much difficulty.
     
  34. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    I believe that would be considered strategy my friend. No one is obligated to make themselves or their faction easy for you to raid.
     
  35. 65jes89

    65jes89 Leader of SunKiss
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    No, that would be impossible to raid, short of implanting spies to tear down the walls for you. There is no strategy involved with that.
    There is, however, strategy involved with making traps and allying the right people. If you can make your base unraidBle that way, then by all means, do so. But putting up a 3 block wall and claiming it isn't strategy.
     
  36. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    If you hated trees and knowing this I planted them all along the border guess what? Strategy.
     
  37. Muireann_Alessa

    Muireann_Alessa Builder/Designer/Merchant/Investor

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    Again, no one is obligated to make it easy for you. Or not hard, or frustrating, or whatnot. The burden SHOULD be on the raiders, not the defenders. Now that you mention it, making a base unraidable in order to thwart those wanting to kill people for lols sounds like a most enjoyable and sensible use of one's time and resources.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  38. Rooseus

    Rooseus Lord of Damorn

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    If you can't protect your faction it shoulden't survive. So if you really want to farm and do stuff like that, join a stronger faction were you are protected. I think we all can agree on that there is way to many factions out there already, i rather see bigger factions with more people.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  39. Skip_HD

    Skip_HD Refugee

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    Personaly, I do not raid as I am bored but I raid because its what I enjoy. If anything raiders work harder than the builders, miners and farmers. We spend hours in dark rooms training stats, spend money on resorces for potions. Spend more time in dark rooms getting experience and endlessly enchanting for the perfect armor. Spend time getting information. cords and portal codes to raid. Alot more planning goes in to raiding than you think. Alot of people don't raid because they are 'bored' but they raid as thats what they enjoy doing.
     
  40. Celeras

    Celeras Refugee

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    To anyone wishing to avoid PVP:

    It is possible to make your faction unraidable but it requires a butt load of faction power depending on how big your faction is. By having 30-40 block high walls and 4 chunks of claimed buffer zone between the chunk the walls are in and the wilderness, nobody can pearl over the wall from the ground and they cannot reach over the wall from any height from 4 chunks away.

    Be safe :)
     
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