Archived Pvp Fixes

[Sevak]

What the issue is...
PvPers are way too tanky in fights and finishing kills outside of traps is extremely difficult. If you don't PvP you may just assume I'm writing this post because I'm salty because I haven't been getting as many kills recently but that is not why. Months ago I was complaining about not ever getting raided, and now I get raided daily but I have almost no motivation to actually defend. PvP is boring when everyone is practically immune from dying when they've got space to run.

Why players are so tanky...
- Thorns armor causing players chasing their enemies to be knocked back on most hits
This has been complained about probably the most because chasing a player on the run has become increasingly difficult if they have their thorns armor knocking you back every few hits.

- Speed 2 and Feedalways almost always used for PvP now allowing players to continue running forever
You can literally run forever without stopping. There is no point in chasing someone with this because they will eventually reach a safe zone or somewhere you cannot follow. Your only hope is that they run out of pearls faster than you do. Players used to have to eat food and apply speed 2 potions during fights making your inventory management more of a challenge.

- God Apples and being spammed
God apples apply 5 minutes of a Resistance effect, 2 minutes of Regeneration, 1 minute of Speed and 8 minutes of Fire Res to the user. The only effect that makes a severe difference to combat is the Resistance. With the removal of traits like Axe resistance and health boost, it may be a good thing to keep. God apples could certainly use some tweaking though.

What can be done to fix it... (In my opinion of course, feel free to argue)
- Thorns Armor
Remove the knockback from thorns procs, and have it just do damage so it will still matter in PvP
I've just found out this is not actually possible currently so disregard and poll options involving removing thorns knock back

- Speed 2 and Feedalways
I suggested that these, along with all other traits, be deactivated when a player becomes PvP Active. Unfortunately this would require time and coding so I brought up the idea of temporarily removing speed 2 and feed always until this could be set up

- God Apples
I have proposed the idea of an increased cool down on god apples up to half an hour or an hour. This will take away the ability to eat them every single fight, and will force you to eat them strategically.

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[65jes89]

I'm good with thorns and a gapple cooldown, kinda on the fence with traits.

 

[Zacatero]

So wait... Im confused. You want unlimited Speed 2 in pvp but at the same time you have an option to remove it? Am i reading that right?

 

[Sevak]

So wait... Im confused. You want unlimited Speed 2 in pvp but at the same time you have an option to remove it? Am i reading that right?

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Sorry, no. Unlimited speed 2 is the problem. I should rename the thread

 

[FireFan96]

I suggested that these, along with all other traits, be deactivated when a player becomes PvP Active. Unfortunately this would require time and coding so I brought up the idea of temporarily removing speed 2 and feed always until this could be set up

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maybe make those traits 50 points more expensive? That way you'd probably only be able to pick one of the two, so it makes a trade off.

I have proposed the idea of an increased cool down on god apples up to half an hour or an hour. This will take away the ability to eat them every single fight, and will force you to eat them strategically.

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I love this from a non-pvper standpoint.

 

[Kaezir]

Thorns I certainly agree on and I have no issues with the God apple CD.

But removing the traits or editing them? I could probably get behind them turning off when entering combat.. Honestly not sure. Maybe speed 2 being disabled forcing people to throw pots. That would be pretty similar to the reasons behind removing FlyWater. But it'd be incredibly inconvenient to all of a sudden start getting hunger while being attacked. Would be a pain to maintain.

Everything else tho. I'm down.

 

[Sevak]

maybe make those traits 50 points more expensive? That way you'd probably only be able to pick one of the two, so it makes a trade off.

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I like the idea a lot actually. While I do wish it could be neither this would be a good temporary fix

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But removing the traits or editing them? I could probably get behind them turning off when entering combat.. Honestly not sure. Maybe speed 2 being disabled forcing people to throw pots. That would be pretty similar to the reasons behind removing FlyWater. But it'd be incredibly inconvenient to all of a sudden start getting hunger while being attacked. Would be a pain to maintain.

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I didn't think about that at all, thank you for pointing it out. I guess people would have to start carrying food around with them just in case, especially if you're wandering in the wilderness. If you're by your faction's land you could probably get inside a house before you run out of food though.

 

[Kaezir]

If you're by your faction's land you could probably get inside a house before you run out of food though.

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I mean I'm typically prepared. Don't know how that'd go for everyone else.
Maybe if it didn't disable it completely but debuffed it during combat? People would be able to react. And if they didn't have any food on them they wouldn't be at a complete disadvantage and could still attempt combat.

 

[65jes89]

Personally I like feedalways just because it eliminates the problem of it taking forever to eat in 1.9/10 when it's laggy.

 

[Zacatero]

I could probably get behind them turning off when entering combat..

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I didn't think about that at all, thank you for pointing it out.

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If y'all remember, when the combat traits were removed and people were complaining about flywater specifically, the staff said that its being looked into to be able to have flywater disabled while PVP active. So if that research and/or coding is being done for Flywater cant it also be done for the Speed2 or FeedAlways?

Also I do want to point out that some defenders use Speed2. So i do not think it is wise to further nerf what it is that defenders can do

 

[Medifyre]

I like these ideas a lot. The traits removal or inactivity during pvp would increase the amount of food and potions needed for players which basically means that those are new jobs and roles for players to fill in my current faction. Not to mention it would make pvp a lot more exciting if I couldn't run forever.

 

[Savantly]

PvP is boring when everyone is practically immune from dying when they've got space to run.
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I agree, in my recent pvp experience it has been very difficult to kill people. Partially because my aim is limited to hitting the ground and any trees within range. Also partially because people can still use Absorption 2, Extended health, and resistance/Gapples and when they get low they spam health potions. Also people running away is a very irritating issue aswell. So here are a few ideas that I have, Feel free to say which ones you hate or like.

1. Speed Reduction
Make it so after a player is hit their speed is reduced by one level for 3 seconds.
Speed 2 > Speed 1 > Default > Slowness 1 > Slowness 2
Ex. Player running at speed 2 is hit by an enemies god axe, speed is temporarily reduced to speed 1 for 3 seconds.

I like this idea because it forces people to fight it out, instead of running away in one direction until the chaser gets bored.

2. Armor Durability
I think we've all noticed, especially after the 3x durability was implemented. That nothing gets your armor close to in the red. After doing a trial of 4 hours darkrooming my armor was still around half durability. I also fought against @Chalsie for a good hour or so in KitPvP, and armor was still in the green (Same Armor set the entire time).

So from my limited pvp experience, I'd say the only thing that can break my armor at the moment is @Traxex20
I might also add that breaking armor is not only a very effective way to kill someone, but also extremely satisfactory.
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- God Apples
I have proposed the idea of an increased cool down on god apples up to half an hour or an hour. This will take away the ability to eat them every single fight, and will force you to eat them strategically.

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3. Gapple Cooldown
I've been able to test Gapples on massivecraft, and they are extremely balanced compared to what they used to be.
Thats not the point though, the real issue is that most players don't have access to a player that can make resistance potions.
So by limiting the usage of god apples, you reduce the amount of other equally equipped pvpers. Plus Gapple consumption is really good for the server economy.
The thing that should really have a cooldown is health potions. They are extremely cheap, and it requires little to no skill to use them properly. However, I'm not against a 2-5 minute cooldown on God apples.
(Never tried to spam Gapples before, so not sure if there is already a cooldown.)
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[Gethelp]

2. Armor Durability
I think we've all noticed, especially after the 3x durability was implemented. That nothing gets your armor close to in the red. After doing a trial of 4 hours darkrooming my armor was still around half durability. I also fought against @Chalsie for a good hour or so in KitPvP, and armor was still in the green (Same Armor set the entire time).

So from my limited pvp experience, I'd say the only thing that can break my armor at the moment is @Traxex20
I might also add that breaking armor is not only a very effective way to kill someone, but also extremely satisfactory.

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You cant test stuff in kitpvp as the setttings are not the same as faction worlds ea no Mcmmo

 

[Savantly]

You cant test stuff in kitpvp as the setttings are not the same as faction worlds ea no Mcmmo

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Ya, but what about when I pvped with friends at Koth? That has mcmmo enabled. Armor still doesn't really get damaged, but then again I dont raid for hours straight like some people here. The point is, it should never take an hour for armor to break and the only thing that can break it at the moment is people with /mctop axes. Most people just die before armor is broken. With /fix and the changes to mcmmo repair. Armor is still really easy to repair and people like me and you have doublechests of god armor, it's really easy to get.

 

[65jes89]

1. Speed Reduction
Make it so after a player is hit their speed is reduced by one level for 3 seconds.
Speed 2 > Speed 1 > Default > Slowness 1 > Slowness 2

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This would be terrible for pvp. It would prevent people from running, yes, but would also make it excessively difficult to hit anyone and every fight would literally be just about who gets the forst 4 hits and then crits out the person with slowness 2.

 

[Sevak]

Speed2 fights are crazy and running is not much fun but if you remove Speed2 and Feedallways then you might as well remove traits all together xP

I thing x3 durability armor is really broken. I wanted to grind repair MCMMO so I got on with a friend and a regen beacon and it took him 1 hour to get my boots to 5 durability (he had 1k axes btw).

I think the durability should go down to x2 or x1

I think the Gapples are fine as is.

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Speed2 is good in PvP when its being applied by potions. But yeah at this point it would be great if there were just no traits in PvP. All PvP traits were removed but now we just have permanent potion effects (fire immune, speed2) which seems a little dumb.

Secondly, I don't believe at all that your friend took 1 hour to get your boots that low. Did he have sharp 5 and strength II on? If not, those factors need to be considered because they are always used in fights and increase the armor damage done.

 

[Gethelp]

Yeah I don't see why several of my posts were deleted, they were all on-topic and not breaking any rules... I honestly don't really remember any off-topic posts.

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im removing anthing not to do with first post or i feel has nothing to do with it ea the durability talk

 

[zomslayer6]

From a pot pvpers stand point I think that grapples should be taken away completely and make the faction have set brewers that have to make resis., fire res., etc. this will make it a bit more strategic for combat. And I myself have been in a few fight where someone just eats a god apple then then starts to go invincible and takes no damage. But I do like the half an hour to one hour cool down that was suggested.

 

[Sevak]

From a pot pvpers stand point I think that grapples should be taken away completely and make the faction have set brewers that have to make resis., fire res., etc. this will make it a bit more strategic for combat. And I myself have been in a few fight where someone just eats a god apple then then starts to go invincible and takes no damage. But I do like the half an hour to one hour cool down that was suggested.

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Honestly agreed but so many people have made tons of gapples and they'd probably be pissed if they got removed

 

[BornAsEpic]

What they should remove is potion crafting. Long ago MassiveCraft was a hardcore server which encouraged traveling, and provided extreme rules for survival. In these days(I don't blame anyone, we're all in the same mess) getting started is really easy. Getting money from John the Pious(or whatever is he called) is absurd. I remember when I came to the server I had to mine for my diamonds/gold/iron and so on. I'm saying that because I got inactive 3 months ago and I recently came back to play again. After 1 week of playing(getting money from John the Pious) I was able to afford god armor, potions and a nice faction. Economy is getting destroyed day by day and there is nothing to do to change it back to the normal.
What my point is, this server survival is too easy, and there is a lot of stuff that could be changed and wouldn't affect anyone at all.
I don't want to argue with anyone, I love playing on this server, and when I get bored of it, I just go away for month or two and I come back and I still like it. There could be a lot of stuff changed, ranging from PvP/Economy/Faction claiming and so on.
Have a nice day! =)

 

[Sevak]

What they should remove is potion crafting. Long ago MassiveCraft was a hardcore server which encouraged traveling, and provided extreme rules for survival. In these days(I don't blame anyone, we're all in the same mess) getting started is really easy. Getting money from John the Pious(or whatever is he called) is absurd. I remember when I came to the server I had to mine for my diamonds/gold/iron and so on. I'm saying that because I got inactive 3 months ago and I recently came back to play again. After 1 week of playing(getting money from John the Pious) I was able to afford god armor, potions and a nice faction. Economy is getting destroyed day by day and there is nothing to do to change it back to the normal.
What my point is, this server survival is too easy, and there is a lot of stuff that could be changed and wouldn't affect anyone at all.
I don't want to argue with anyone, I love playing on this server, and when I get bored of it, I just go away for month or two and I come back and I still like it. There could be a lot of stuff changed, ranging from PvP/Economy/Faction claiming and so on.
Have a nice day! =)

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Agreed. But I think the only reason to remove pot crafting was if we set hoppers back to normal to have autobrewers. But hoppers cause 90 something % of lag apparently

 

[65jes89]

What they should remove is potion crafting. Long ago MassiveCraft was a hardcore server which encouraged traveling, and provided extreme rules for survival. In these days(I don't blame anyone, we're all in the same mess) getting started is really easy. Getting money from John the Pious(or whatever is he called) is absurd. I remember when I came to the server I had to mine for my diamonds/gold/iron and so on. I'm saying that because I got inactive 3 months ago and I recently came back to play again. After 1 week of playing(getting money from John the Pious) I was able to afford god armor, potions and a nice faction. Economy is getting destroyed day by day and there is nothing to do to change it back to the normal.
What my point is, this server survival is too easy, and there is a lot of stuff that could be changed and wouldn't affect anyone at all.
I don't want to argue with anyone, I love playing on this server, and when I get bored of it, I just go away for month or two and I come back and I still like it. There could be a lot of stuff changed, ranging from PvP/Economy/Faction claiming and so on.
Have a nice day! =)

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Agreed. But I think the only reason to remove pot crafting was if we set hoppers back to normal to have autobrewers. But hoppers cause 90 something % of lag apparently

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I don't see why. All it does is save time. It uses the same number of materials, sand so doesn't really affect the economy. I mean autobrewers are fine and work just fine instead of autocrafting, but since they cause lag, I think that crafting potions is a just fine solution.

 

[Sevak]

I don't see why. All it does is save time. It uses the same number of materials, sand so doesn't really affect the economy. I mean autobrewers are fine and work just fine instead of autocrafting, but since they cause lag, I think that crafting potions is a just fine solution.

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Agreed I preferred auto brewers but you're right about the lag

 

[Viscar]

I don't see why. All it does is save time. It uses the same number of materials, sand so doesn't really affect the economy. I mean autobrewers are fine and work just fine instead of autocrafting, but since they cause lag, I think that crafting potions is a just fine solution.

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Well theres the blaze powder needed to power the brewers that with crafting you don't need, but I agree with you. Plus you would still need to brew for McMMO pots and leveling alchemy.