Archived Nomadic Northerne Tribes Based On The Mongols!

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Theboomyfly

Theboomyfly

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Hey people of MassiveCraft,
I was told that there were nomadic Northerne tribes, but that they couldn't be big or bring fear into Northern lands like the Mongols (if I understood the conversation well enough). I found this very disappointing since I really love the Mongols. So I'm not going to leave it there, I want to see what the server thinks! I think if enough people would be willing to play such a character, that it might have a chance to get added?

The positive thing about this is: It would be both fitting for roleplayers as for PvPers. Roleplayers could play a nomad but the PvPers could actually play a warrior who goes from settlement to settlement to spread fear and get some loot. I don't think PvPers would actually hate roleplay wars?

If enough people would say that they would like to see this added, then I will actually start doing a Write Me Lore about it. Trust me, I have a lot of ideas for this, so it might work. I hope I'm not the only one who would love a nomadic tribe as the Mongols! Please share your vote in the poll, and thank you for reading this! :)

Friendly greetings, Theboomyfly.
 
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I love Mongolia and it's history.
 
When I said no, this is outside our planning, it didn't say "go make a poll to see if 10 people agree with you".

We have a road map planning. Aloria is not the real world. Don't try to force what you want in the lore.
 
MonMarty said:
When I said no, this is outside our planning, it didn't say "go make a poll to see if 10 people agree with you".

We have a road map planning. Aloria is not the real world. Don't try to force what you want in the lore.
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Ow, ok. I thought that you might've said no since the things that should be added in the lore should be played. And that there perhaps was a fear that people wouldn't like to play as a nomadic 'barbarian'. So I hoped if I could prove to the staff that people would like to play this that there might of been a chance that it would've get added. Well, I still will find this a sad decision, but I guess I can't do much to change it, do I? :)

Friendly greetings, Theboomyfly.
 
MonMarty said:
When I said no, this is outside our planning, it didn't say "go make a poll to see if 10 people agree with you".

We have a road map planning. Aloria is not the real world. Don't try to force what you want in the lore.
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God m8. No need to be so hostile. He just had an idea. He was hardly trying to "force" what he likes in to the server wide lore. He had an idea and wanted to see if other people liked it.
 
MonMarty said:
When I said no, this is outside our planning, it didn't say "go make a poll to see if 10 people agree with you".

We have a road map planning. Aloria is not the real world. Don't try to force what you want in the lore.
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I understand that I don't know the full story of this, judging by th tone of the reply, but I really don't see how he's trying to "force" anything into the lore… I mean, tons of people make suggestions to the lore and I've never really seen something shot down like this. There's not really anything wrong with the suggestion I can see, granted I'm relatively unfamiliar with the lore. Anyways, as far as I can tell he went through the normal channels as you're supposed to do to make suggestions, so there wasn't any reason to be so rude and shoot down his suggestion so readily.
 
Aren't the orks more or less similar to this? Also, correct me if I am wrong, but if you want nomadic tribal the thylans are available. Personally it'd be cool to see this culture, but I don't really see a fitting place for it, since the Ailor are so heavily European based.
 
65jes89 said:
I understand that I don't know the full story of this, judging by th tone of the reply, but I really don't see how he's trying to "force" anything into the lore… I mean, tons of people make suggestions to the lore and I've never really seen something shot down like this. There's not really anything wrong with the suggestion I can see, granted I'm relatively unfamiliar with the lore. Anyways, as far as I can tell he went through the normal channels as you're supposed to do to make suggestions, so there wasn't any reason to be so rude and shoot down his suggestion so readily.
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Suggestions can be made at any time provided they haven't already been rejected by the relevant authorities. Given that we adhere to a strict road map planning of what lore gets produced, added or altered, the idea had already been rejected purely on the merit of contradicting that planning to the core of it. That judgement then came from the highest possible authority on the matter. To me this kind of response of taking an already rejected idea to the forum to gather some popular support among a small section of players to validate the idea is the same as asking me for an evaluation on an in-game issue, and when you're not satisfied with my response, hopping over to Thortuna to see if she gives a different reply. In more simpler terms, it's the same as asking your mom for an ice cream, and when she says no you go to your father.

It's one of the most disrespectful things a player can do to a staff member as it completely degrades their authority and sends a very clear message how little the player cares about what the staff member said. Just because OP can ask people in Alliance chat to vote for his idea without even considering the merit or the implications of it, doesn't validate the idea in the slightest. Ask not what the Lore can do for you, but ask instead what you can do for the lore as DrFong once said.
 
MonMarty said:
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Ah I think a better response would have been
"Well Boomy, despite having the idea rejected, you seem to have consistency in your planning and willingness to help out the server. We do have a strict roadmap us staff members have to stay on the ball with, though I doubt it should be a problem as you've already offered to commit to your own work anyway, rather than having us use our precious time and discontinue our already busy work in order to write it for you. I can't envision any negative effect this would otherwise cause to the roleplay or PvP communities. Happy writing Boomy thanks for the thought and dedication."

In more simpler terms, it's the same as asking your mom for an ice cream, and when she says no you go to your father.
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Also I'm fairly certain it's more like an employee telling a CEO they can further contribute to the company for no extra pay, having the CEO tell them "You don't know how that works my opinion is law around here." The employee then attempts to get people to sign a petition supporting the idea to show to his boss it's not such a bad idea after all, only to be promptly fired for being utterly disrespectful when people actually start signing the petition.
 
I think you're misinterpreting short concise messaging with ill intent over lack of "nice language".
 
MonMarty said:
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Short concise messaging being two paragraphs of telling someone they're disrespectful. Which in this case is yet another of your "You disagree? I find that entirely disrespectful towards myself, as well as the rest of the MassiveCraft staff." And of course it is in no way disrespectful, it is simply a member of the playerbase attempting to help out.
You throwing disrespectful around when you get frustrated is like me throwing profanity around when I'm angry, which has happened many times on both our parts. When something like this comes up, try looking at it from the players' point of view. All of them.
 
Jakehs said:
By the look of this thread, as well as the poll, you didn't. Do explain the negative effect of having another piece of lore written so we can discontinue the argument.
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  • The poll presents a Yes/No option. This is a false poll. Yes and No are two simple binary responses that do not offer a proper poll. A proper poll would have been:
    • Yes
    • No
    • Yes, though it should be Uyghur
    • Yes, though it should be Kyrghyz
    • Yes, though it should be Manchurian
    • Yes, though it should be Nogai
    • Yes, though it should be Türkmen
    • Yes, though it should be Berber
    • Yes, though it should be Misr-al-Arab
    • Yes, though it should be Judeo-al-Arab
    • No, you need to perform more research
    • etc. etc.
  • The concept of a raiding people already exists in the lore. Op asked for a specific Asian inspired nomadic culture, more on this in point below. The game play niche is already filled by the Haak people in Hedryll. This was communicated to the OP.
  • OP presents the argument:
    • It would be both fitting for roleplayers as for PvPers.
      • A hollow argument without context and base.
    • Roleplayers could play a nomad but
      • They already can under the following cultures:
        • Mansurya Qadir
        • Haak Northerne
        • Unqüale Elves
        • Wandering Dwarves
    • the PvPers could actually play a warrior who goes from settlement to settlement to spread fear and get some loot.
      • PvPers don't need a roleplay reason to raid. The very concept of it being necessary is offensive to some of them. Given the amount of tangible heat exchanged between roleplayers and pvp'ers on the forum recently concerning raids, makes this sort of reasoning highly inappropriately timed.
      • Some reputable PvP'ers have tried roleplaying in raiding before. It never worked. A different "way" to roleplay it isn't going to change the fact that they simply don't like it.
    • I don't think PvPers would actually hate roleplay wars?
      • This has nothing to do with lore and PVP sentiment. PVP'ers won't magically want to engage in roleplay wars because mongols are suddenly available over vikings, undead, waging human settlements and more.
  • OP drummed up support for the poll trough alliance chat, not asking people to actually look at the merit of the suggestion, but just to vote in support of it, for the sake of gathering support. I can't make accurate predictions but I'm going to assume at least half of them are votes from people who have no interest in roleplaying.
  • The current poll result amounts to 17/1397*100=1.21% of the daily active player base. A popular support motive needs at least 20%, or 275 votes
  • Mongol culture is popularly considered part of the Asian culture spectrum. In our road map for lore planning, we specified that the "Asian" inspired races/cultures are completely devoid of military capabilities to balance for the fact that they have been boosted into the sky with regards to magical capabilities. To incorporate a mongol inspired culture would disrupt the balance of the races in Yang-tzu
  • OP completely ignored the impact of said lore implementation onto the Regalian roleplay scene. OP is not part of this scene as to my knowledge, he does not roleplay in Regalia and so does my assumed part of the voters for the poll.
  • Lore submissions from players are not "free". They require arduous spelling, grammar and storytelling checking, as well as implementation work, staff reviewing and coherence checking on the wiki. Several days of staff work can go into actually having player lore be accepted and formally entered into the largest collective of server lore that has ever existed on any Minecraft Server.
 
MonMarty said:
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You've misinterpreted 'negative effects' for 'how he doesn't have a strong argument.' The only thing close to negative effect here is the very last subpoint, explaining the time going into processing a lore page; which could simply be avoided should someone simply check their own work over, and submit it afterwards. But thanks for the input. Real constructive.
 
Jakehs said:
You've misinterpreted 'negative effects' for 'how he doesn't have a strong argument.' The only thing close to negative effect here is the very last subpoint, explaining the time going into processing a lore page; which could simply be avoided should someone simply check their own work over, and submit it afterwards. But thanks for the input. Real constructive.
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  • Point one is negative as it could lead to an incorrect implementation because too little research was done in the setup.
  • Point two is negative because over saturation of lore features in the story creates confusion. This is why no two identical vampires lines or races exist for example.
  • Point three is negative because it implies this suggestion should be accepted without proper foundation. This is against our general sentiment and policy that changes on the server need to be properly reasoned and researched.
  • Point four is negative because in truth, many roleplayers could be against this, but haven't had the time to voice their opinion, or didn't know this poll existed because the participation degree of the forum is relatively low.
  • Point five is negative as it sets the precedent on the forum that a 2% minority of players is able to "pressure" the staff to do what they want over the vast majority.
  • Point six is negative because it means huge changes to lore as well as future world progression planning between the Ch'ien-ji and Wulong.
  • Point Seven you have already stated.
To further explain that there isn't just one negative effect.
 
Dearest @MonMarty
I just woke up to see how you portray me as completely disrespectful and bad. I do understand where it comes from, but now I'm going to go in defense.

MonMarty said:
Suggestions can be made at any time provided they haven't already been rejected by the relevant authorities. Given that we adhere to a strict road map planning of what lore gets produced, added or altered, the idea had already been rejected purely on the merit of contradicting that planning to the core of it. That judgement then came from the highest possible authority on the matter. To me this kind of response of taking an already rejected idea to the forum to gather some popular support among a small section of players to validate the idea is the same as asking me for an evaluation on an in-game issue, and when you're not satisfied with my response, hopping over to Thortuna to see if she gives a different reply. In more simpler terms, it's the same as asking your mom for an ice cream, and when she says no you go to your father.

It's one of the most disrespectful things a player can do to a staff member as it completely degrades their authority and sends a very clear message how little the player cares about what the staff member said. Just because OP can ask people in Alliance chat to vote for his idea without even considering the merit or the implications of it, doesn't validate the idea in the slightest. Ask not what the Lore can do for you, but ask instead what you can do for the lore as DrFong once said.
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First of all, I meant no disrespect towards you, but as I see in this reply and the following ones, you do show disrespect towards me. I didn't ask the server because it was ice cream, no. I asked the server thinking you might've rejected it because you thought it would have no people. So I wanted to show you that people might've been interested and that it would prove your fear wrong. I hoped to be able to do something for the society, not to disrespect you.

Yes, it might've looked disrespectful from your aspect, but I meant no harm. And yes, I asked people in alliance to vote (it actually surprises me that you traced that). But I did NOT ask my allies to vote yes, I just simply asked to vote. I wanted their true opinions, if it would be yes, or no. If I wanted them all to vote yes, I would've said something like: "Allies, please vote YES on my idea!" instead of: "Allies, please vote on my idea!" Next post!

MonMarty said:
  • The poll presents a Yes/No option. This is a false poll. Yes and No are two simple binary responses that do not offer a proper poll. A proper poll would have been:
    • Yes
    • No
    • Yes, though it should be Uyghur
    • Yes, though it should be Kyrghyz
    • Yes, though it should be Manchurian
    • Yes, though it should be Nogai
    • Yes, though it should be Türkmen
    • Yes, though it should be Berber
    • Yes, though it should be Misr-al-Arab
    • Yes, though it should be Judeo-al-Arab
    • No, you need to perform more research
    • etc. etc.
  • The concept of a raiding people already exists in the lore. Op asked for a specific Asian inspired nomadic culture, more on this in point below. The game play niche is already filled by the Haak people in Hedryll. This was communicated to the OP.
  • OP presents the argument:
    • It would be both fitting for roleplayers as for PvPers.
      • A hollow argument without context and base.
    • Roleplayers could play a nomad but
      • They already can under the following cultures:
        • Mansurya Qadir
        • Haak Northerne
        • Unqüale Elves
        • Wandering Dwarves
    • the PvPers could actually play a warrior who goes from settlement to settlement to spread fear and get some loot.
      • PvPers don't need a roleplay reason to raid. The very concept of it being necessary is offensive to some of them. Given the amount of tangible heat exchanged between roleplayers and pvp'ers on the forum recently concerning raids, makes this sort of reasoning highly inappropriately timed.
      • Some reputable PvP'ers have tried roleplaying in raiding before. It never worked. A different "way" to roleplay it isn't going to change the fact that they simply don't like it.
    • I don't think PvPers would actually hate roleplay wars?
      • This has nothing to do with lore and PVP sentiment. PVP'ers won't magically want to engage in roleplay wars because mongols are suddenly available over vikings, undead, waging human settlements and more.
  • OP drummed up support for the poll trough alliance chat, not asking people to actually look at the merit of the suggestion, but just to vote in support of it, for the sake of gathering support. I can't make accurate predictions but I'm going to assume at least half of them are votes from people who have no interest in roleplaying.
  • The current poll result amounts to 17/1397*100=1.21% of the daily active player base. A popular support motive needs at least 20%, or 275 votes
  • Mongol culture is popularly considered part of the Asian culture spectrum. In our road map for lore planning, we specified that the "Asian" inspired races/cultures are completely devoid of military capabilities to balance for the fact that they have been boosted into the sky with regards to magical capabilities. To incorporate a mongol inspired culture would disrupt the balance of the races in Yang-tzu
  • OP completely ignored the impact of said lore implementation onto the Regalian roleplay scene. OP is not part of this scene as to my knowledge, he does not roleplay in Regalia and so does my assumed part of the voters for the poll.
  • Lore submissions from players are not "free". They require arduous spelling, grammar and storytelling checking, as well as implementation work, staff reviewing and coherence checking on the wiki. Several days of staff work can go into actually having player lore be accepted and formally entered into the largest collective of server lore that has ever existed on any Minecraft Server.
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  • Perhaps I could've had done the poll a bit better, I apologize.
  • I know that raiding is popular amongst Northerne people, but I really love the Mongol culture. I would've loved to have seen a large nomadic horde spreading chaos in lands, without getting much harm. Since, hey? What are you going to attack? Their capitol? xD
  • Let me react on these several points:
  • 1) Perhaps it was a hollow argument, yes. But I didn't want to type much yet because I wanted to hear if the server liked the idea first.
  • 2) Yes we already have such cultures, but we don't have Mongols yet? I really like the Mongols, and thought it might've been fun for PvP'ers to fight each other on a horse like the Mongols. They would probably fail very hard in the beginning, which could reward them with a laugh. But as they get used to it, they could find new ways to fight.
  • 3) Yes, I know that PvP'ers don't need reasons to declare wars. I just would've loved to have seen a few new roleplay wars.
  • 4) I know PvP'ers who love role-play wars, a war with a meaning of history and lore.
  • Yes, I asked my allies to vote for this. But as I stated before, I did not ask them to vote yes. I wanted their real vote, and their constructive criticism. I don't know how you came on the idea of me asking them to vote yes? Perhaps English differs much more from Dutch than I actually thought?
  • Well, that would've been really hard. But on the other hand, I don't think each race is played by 275 people? Otherwise we wouldn't have a lot of problems with Dakkars, Dargan, and some other races. :)
  • I wasn't going to make the Mongol-based culture 100% Mongol. I was going to make it like a branch that ripped itself from the Northerne culture due to differences in thinking. Meaning they would be partially Mongol, and partially Nordic. I wasn't going to place them in Yang-Tzu, but in Northern and North-Eastern Ellador, where they would try to conquer Ellador.
  • Well, I wasn't going to give it a big impact on Regalia at all. Since this culture wouldn't have any interest in other lands besides Ellador. And yes, I don't roleplay a lot in Regalia. This has several reasons. I am busy with preparing my faction, doing survival stuff. But I was planning, when my roleplay faction would be finished for the most part, to start roleplaying again. Perhaps not in Regalia, but more in my Nomadic faction.
  • I'm not going to talk about this much since I won't be writing any lore soon.
I just find it sad that you had to make me look like completely bad and disrespectful to justify your disrespectfulness towards me.

Friendly greetings, Theboomyfly.
 
I believe both arguments have at least a little merit to them, but what if we just made this like an event, such as the void invasion, a "Northern Invasion" if you will. Would this be an acceptable answer or no?

Now that I really think about it, an event like that might have to go into the lore like the void invasions are.
@MonMarty & @Theboomyfly , both of you came off as opposing sides and shot each other down, Let's not let this cause any fumes because that is not what the forums is about. MonMarty, personally I like the idea of a Mongol-like culture, but I also get why you may see it as "harmful" to the server/players/lore/direction of it all. Is there a middle ground at the very least that you could think of? Theboomfly, your idea is great but I'd suggest working with the moderators instead of against them, they are player just like us and they need support just as much as the rest of us. It would be very amazing if this post was less of a debate and more of a coordination. (directed to both of you).
I truly hope that this comment helps this post and does not create any tempers, cold shoulders, or grudges.

Sincerely,
Herojipps
 
@OldManJ98
Please remove the Read the subject again, since I have read the posts of MonMarty very well. Unless you mind to explain what I haven't read well?

Heroawesome said:
I believe both arguments have at least a little merit to them, but what if we just made this like an event, such as the void invasion, a "Northern Invasion" if you will. Would this be an acceptable answer or no?

Now that I really think about it, an event like that might have to go into the lore like the void invasions are.
@MonMarty & @Theboomyfly , both of you came off as opposing sides and shot each other down, Let's not let this cause any fumes because that is not what the forums is about. MonMarty, personally I like the idea of a Mongol-like culture, but I also get why you may see it as "harmful" to the server/players/lore/direction of it all. Is there a middle ground at the very least that you could think of? Theboomfly, your idea is great but I'd suggest working with the moderators instead of against them, they are player just like us and they need support just as much as the rest of us. It would be very amazing if this post was less of a debate and more of a coordination. (directed to both of you).
I truly hope that this comment helps this post and does not create any tempers, cold shoulders, or grudges.

Sincerely,
Herojipps
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I'm not working against the staff, there was just a miscommunication. If this would become a real thing, I would love to work together with the staff instead of against them. And thank you for supporting the idea. :)
 
Well what I mean Theboomfly is that you work with MonMarty now. Do not expect someone to do something if you are not actively working with them. Try to talk to MonMarty and ask him what you can do to make this a possibility, and what you can do to help him help you. whether you mean to work with him after he starts working or if he says yes this applies, if not please clarify.
 
Heroawesome said:
Well what I mean Theboomfly is that you work with MonMarty now. Do not expect someone to do something if you are not actively working with them. Try to talk to MonMarty and ask him what you can do to make this a possibility, and what you can do to help him help you. whether you mean to work with him after he starts working or if he says yes this applies, if not please clarify.
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MonMarty made it very clear that he doesn't like the idea nor that it will be implemented. For the sake of not being portrayed as disrespectful again, I will not do anymore attempts on this project, unless asked.
 
Okey Dokey,

Just know that I highly respect your decision. And make sure to have counter claims and rebuttals to start with, it would really help your argument. Basically think of all the bad that could come of it and then all the good that could come as a result. why not also add your ideas to general and ask them to vote too. you have a great day man! Love your idea.

Herojipps
 
Theboomyfly said:
@OldManJ98
Please remove the Read the subject again, since I have read the posts of MonMarty very well. Unless you mind to explain what I haven't read well?


I'm not working against the staff, there was just a miscommunication. If this would become a real thing, I would love to work together with the staff instead of against them. And thank you for supporting the idea. :)
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I believe if you reread marty's posts you will find some of your counter points flawed
 
Hey Boomy, nice idea!
Sorry to hear that there's no spot in the lore for something like this at the given time, I know how much you really wanted to see this idea in the lore.
@MonMarty, I understand that what Boomy did might of been misunderstood as disrespectful, but I can be pretty much certain that that wasn't his objective. It's just thinking to much into what Boomy would be capable of.
I've been on calls with Boomy the last two given weeks and honestly, there wasn't a call that didn't result with Boomy talking about his love for "mongols" and his aspiring plan. He just honestly loved the idea so much, that I'm sure the only reason he followed up on this thread was out of sure disappointment followed by lack of thorough planning. Something I'm certain we have all been guilty of at some point.

I don't disagree with your decision. Just given my two cents on the situation to ensure you that Boomy mean't no disrespect by this, and it was just misinterpretation is all.
Thanks!

Boomy, next call we will discuss where you can go from here, yeah man?
 
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