Archived New Market Shop Charges Per Shop Chest.

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MDeeDub

MDeeDub

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I know many members who bought a market stall today were quite surprised to find that each market shop would cost us 10 regals per chest. I know this is how it works within your own faction but within the old marketplace changes to chestshops were free.

I am glad that market was reworked to remove lag and members who were not active, but this change is detrimental to an active and dynamic market. Paying the initial price per chest is not my issue, but rather having to pay every time I want to change my prices to reflect the current market price. This is going to make a vibrant economy impossible.

I propose we revert to the previous system where market owners were able to change prices freely. Just because this market is not in Regalia, does not mean that the policy should change.

I know I am supported by many members of the market community and would gladly hear feedback from others.
 
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More than that, this mostly hurts the new merchanters, the ones such as myself who wish to experiment and see what will sell, and what prices, and what rates. The rich people on the other hand who have been doing this for a while, the ones on the first 50 pages on the money top list they might know what to sell just a little more and it won't hurt them as much to change it occasionally. To me it is detrimental, the system has already cost me I think around 200r +, thats on top of this month's rent for 300r. If you drive out the competition prices are going to go up. This system may not seem like a big deal if you don't rent a shop but I truly believe this is going to break the economy, or at least very badly damage it to the point no one will be able to work their way up. Also what makes me the most mad is that we weren't warned of this earlier these last few days I could have been thinking about what to sell and for how much, instead I (along with many others) were slapped in the face by these HIDDEN charges. If there is regulation against doing this kind of thing in real life why is massivecraft now doing it?
 
I am not a big salesperson; I don't own a shop at the market and never have. But I can say from what I have heard and read here that the pricing is not fair to new players breaking in and not fair to store-owners who have to spend larger amounts of money just to set up shop and then change prices. It should be changed. I say all in favour say 'I'! :)
 
To put this in perspective, the staff have dropped the monthly rentals considerably, and so it probably evens out. Therefore, I don't mind the charges.
 
As you know the market should be a place where competition exists. This isn't possible unless shop owners are free to change their prices without having to pay the heavy fee of 10 regals every time they modify a sign.
I add my vote to removing the fees (or at least reducing them to something like 1 or 2 regals) when changing signs on shop chests. We appreciate what the management has done to remove the lag but I hope the management will listen to us in return. Thank you.
 
Film_Noir said:
To put this in perspective, the staff have dropped the monthly rentals considerably, and so it probably evens out. Therefore, I don't mind the charges.
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Prices were not lowered considerably. Regular shops were about 700r before and are now 600. This is a slight reduction but not enough to cover regularly changing prices to fit the market.
 
MDeeDub said:
Prices were not lowered considerably. Regular shops were about 700r before and are now 600. This is a slight reduction but not enough to cover regularly changing prices to fit the market.
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That's not true. Rich shops were 3000r and now are 2000r. Shops around the main ring road were between 1000r and 700r and are now 600r. (I was paying 900r for mine.) Cheap shops were 500r and are now 300r.

Also, there's the matter of keeping the balance between regals coming into the server and regals leaving. The charges probably balance the decrease in rent, as far as I see it, thus maintaining that balance. The economical graphs can be found somewhere on the website. The last time I looked, the sources versus sinks seemed well-balanced, but the staff would know more about this than me, of course.
 
Film_Noir said:
To put this in perspective, the staff have dropped the monthly rentals considerably, and so it probably evens out. Therefore, I don't mind the charges.
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What you don't understand is that it does even out (for the rich) not for anyone trying to start out. If you had a shop you would understand. Btw the cheapshops were 500r before and now they are 300r problem i spent over 200r changing prices just today but yeah it's a discount for the rich shops at a thousand regals less. Great way to eliminate competition. And once again we were not told about this change ahead of time. And what was this supposed to accomplish anyway?
 
Film_Noir said:
Also, there's the matter of keeping the balance between regals coming into the server and regals leaving. The charges balance out the decrease in rent, as far as I see it, thus maintaining the balance. The economical graphs can be found somewhere on the website. The last time I looked, the sources versus sinks seemed well-balanced, but the staff would know more about this than me, of course.
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Um right we need more deflation, and lets lets put all that burden on shop owners.
 
Anyone who has taken economics 101 knows this is a bad idead I would rather they just raised the rent back.
 
To be fair the rate of deflation we had has been fairly stable in the past, but the center of my argument is not deflation.
 
Film_Noir said:
That's not true. Rich shops were 3000r and now are 2000r. Shops around the main ring road were between 1000r and 700r and are now 600r. (I was paying 900r for mine.) Cheap shops were 500r and are now 300r.

Also, there's the matter of keeping the balance between regals coming into the server and regals leaving. The charges probably balance the decrease in rent, as far as I see it, thus maintaining that balance. The economical graphs can be found somewhere on the website. The last time I looked, the sources versus sinks seemed well-balanced, but the staff would know more about this than me, of course.
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Any graphs your are looking at were made before this change took place so are now null an void. You would need to make new calculations and graphs for that to mean anything significant.

I believe rent was reduced because of the amount of empty shops in the old market. Not because of the amount of regals coming into or out of the server.
 
Film_Noir said:
That's not true. Rich shops were 3000r and now are 2000r. Shops around the main ring road were between 1000r and 700r and are now 600r. (I was paying 900r for mine.) Cheap shops were 500r and are now 300r.

Also, there's the matter of keeping the balance between regals coming into the server and regals leaving. The charges probably balance the decrease in rent, as far as I see it, thus maintaining that balance. The economical graphs can be found somewhere on the website. The last time I looked, the sources versus sinks seemed well-balanced, but the staff would know more about this than me, of course.
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I payed 700r, now i pay 600.
And the rent is raising, because there is more houses in Regalia (not for the market stall but in general).
We also lost the 750regals per month thing.
So to stable it we need more sources not more sinks.
 
We were not warned, if i where i would have choosen another shop.
Also with the current prices so low, we can't earn much i buy and sell and only earn a very little. It is now even harder for people like me because we can't change our prices to all the time to meet changes.
 
Madus said:
I payed 700r, now i pay 600.
And the rent is raising, because there is more houses in Regalia (not for the market stall but in general).
We also lost the 750regals per month thing.
So to stable it we need more sources not more sinks.
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@Film_Noir How can you disagree?
What i payed, is a fact.
That the amount of money Rent takes out of the economy is raising is a fact. There is also more rented rich chops. Instead of before when only a few where rented.
We lost the 750 regals a month for premium. Is a fact
To stable it we need more sources. You could disagree on that but looking at my previous statements and the recent changes on the server it is true. Which you would know if you understood economy.
EDIT: And how can it bee you disagree with me but not with others that say the same things?
 
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LWC cost will be discussed during the next direction meeting. Initially the LWC prices were included in the new shop prices, but I didn't know LWC charges every time you change your price. I obviously don't own a shop or have any private chests so I was unaware that's how it worked.
 
@Film_Noir has had the most stable and well-filled shop that I've come across in Regalia with very diverse items. I remember going to his shop quite a lot even back when Regalia was using the original city planning. I'm quite certain he understands economy.

But hey, anyone can put up a custom title nowadays and they are automagically Economy Experts, right? ;)
 
MonMarty said:
LWC cost will be discussed during the next direction meeting. Initially the LWC prices were included in the new shop prices, but I didn't know LWC charges every time you change your price. I obviously don't own a shop or have any private chests so I was unaware that's how it worked.
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A one time fee is more reasonable, the problem is, is that you really can't "change" your prices but just destroy the sign and then pay again with another 10 regal fee. But I am glad to see that we have the staff's attention and that it will lead to further discussion. Frankly I would like to get past this little distraction, from what is one of the best or perhaps the best mine craft server in the world. I love the overall direction of this server, however I think the fee for chests shop plus rent was a little bit of an oversight.
 
Nordhbane said:
@Film_Noir has had the most stable and well-filled shop that I've come across in Regalia with very diverse items. I remember going to his shop quite a lot even back when Regalia was using the original city planning. I'm quite certain he understands economy.

But hey, anyone can put up a custom title nowadays and they are automagically Economy Experts, right? ;)
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Lol he may understand how to make money but that doesn't mean he understands the economy either. That just meant he knew how to make a profit on items and keep his store stocked. That being said he may very well, know the economic impact of this whole situation and figure he will just try to get on the winning side of it. Did you read my previous posts of how this is mostly hurting the poor shops? If he had a great shop than he isn't poor. Like I said this will only make the rich, richer.
Sources- Economy Expert lol
 
DallasTheKiller said:
Lol he may understand how to make money but that doesn't mean he understands the economy either. That just meant he knew how to make a profit on items and keep his store stocked. That being said he may very well, know the economic impact of this whole situation and figure he will just try to get on the winning side of it. Did you read my previous posts of how this is mostly hurting the poor shops? If he had a great shop than he isn't poor. Like I said this will only make the rich, richer.
Sources- Economy Expert lol
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I'm not against a removal of the LWC-fee for the shops, I do agree that it's working against inexperienced shop-owners and people that want to experiment with the market. And I do like people experimenting, I think it creates a good and active marketplace.

I felt that Film_Noir was inexcusably jumped upon saying he doesn't know economy. If he's made it rich, and is making sure he's on the winning side, that only proves my point that he knows what he's doing. So instead of slandering him with false accusations, argue about what's true and go from there. Or even better, stalk his actions and improve upon them to be an even better salesman than him. Then you won't have a problem with the fee, in case it stays, in the long run. :)
 
I spent thousands of Regals in Film_Noir's shop simply because he was the only one that reliably offered stained clay blocks in high supply, something no other shop was able to do.
 
Well all controversy aside it has been reversed, there is no longer a fee for chestshop creation and I am very, very happy about that.
 
Based on my observations, prices of running a shop are going down. Therefore this could be increasing the value of the Reagal. When it costs Reagals to set up a chest, money is paid to the server, which I call a void transfer because there's no way to get it back. With less reagals being transfered about, the Reagal value will increase. The only spontaneous reagals that are being added to the total of Reagals in the entire economy are mob drops, and voting for reagals. Paying money to rent a store is rather an attempt to keep inflation or deflation at a halt. However, the economy is improving due to deflation. The shop's rent went down and it costs a lot less to set up a chest shop, which means prices will go down. Next time the rent of shops should be changed at a slow pace. But I forsee an oppurtunity that could give members a chance to strike it rich. IF prices of renting shops were suddenly to go down, say about half, the value of the Reagal could have a HUGE spike temporarily. Everyone's wallets could potientially double in value, but for a short amount of time, the only negative effect is that we could be hit so hard with inflation.

My point is, that it is necessary to keep the rent of shops to match with spontaneous inflation. But alas, its unpredictable. I want the cost of making a shop chest to go away, because that will help people to adjust to our rapid and unstable economy and will promote competion between other shops, which also acts like a buffer to the economy.. If this does not get resolved soon, no one can be paid in their faction. How could we live in a world like that?
 
Since the cost to create shops at /warp market was removed, I'll go ahead and lock this.
 
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