New Economy Approach.

Discussion in 'Feature & Idea Discussion - Archive' started by CFLPlayer, Apr 13, 2015.

  1. TheComputerGeek2

    TheComputerGeek2 Some guy trying to make things work Staff Member Tech3

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    I can't say anything about if it would work for massive in terms of it being accepted, but it is possible to create a plugin with this functionality.
     
  2. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Or the server could just set up a temporary shop at/near spawn that buys pretty much anything a player would want to sell for a certain (fairly high) price. The shop would suck resources out of the server while also creating an artificial increase in item value. It would allow wealthy players to unload their giant stashes of random crap while also giving less wealthy players a chance to gain some real regals.
     
  3. krios41

    krios41 Privjet

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    didn't teh staff say that they don't interfere with teh economie and are like
    "you break it you repair it" opinion over it? i think i have read thatsomewhere
    i like teh idea, but, make it a low price, it shold suck things out of economie at a low price so it would stil be more benficial to sell yur stuf to regular players.
     
  4. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Yeah they have, that won't stop me from kicking a dead horse. I bet if a few big-time rich guys set up shops in the market it'd work just as well, but who's gonna do that?
     
  5. Party_Penguin27

    Party_Penguin27 exactly 43.5 various checkbooks

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    And the wealthy become more wealthy
     
  6. SacredTrout

    SacredTrout Patriot

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Yep. #Capitalism. Better that they get rich off the server than getting rich off the poor.
     
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  8. Party_Penguin27

    Party_Penguin27 exactly 43.5 various checkbooks

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    Capatilism?
    More like crapitalism amiright folds
     
  9. krios41

    krios41 Privjet

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    gogo comunism, sadly, this has a bad reputation, damn you greedy humans that ruined this bieutifull concept!
     
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  10. Party_Penguin27

    Party_Penguin27 exactly 43.5 various checkbooks

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    Eh the ussr was not pure communism
     
  11. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

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    Communism assumes humans aren't lazy, selfish, greedy bastards. Naturally something based on such a flawed foundation would fail.
     
  12. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    Hey, trying to keep this on topic, what are people's thoughts on consumable happiness items like opium, spiced food etc?
     
  13. Anseran

    Anseran Ciellonian Wanderer

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    If war is all you know then how come you're very knowledgeable in the field of economics? :o
     
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  14. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    Dayum son. You need some ice cubes? Cus dat burn was hawt!
     
  15. rw45431

    rw45431 The Psycho of Ravensong

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    While I do like the idea and think it has potential to work, I think it needs to be tweaked slightly. For an example we'll look at factions A and B. Faction A has many members that makes it so they're almost always around one another, constantly raising happiness. They're also a rich faction, keeping their faction bank with enough regals to keep them there for years and their players have the same amount. They accept all ally requests they get, making them have enough allies that you have to scroll to see their entire faction information page. They have good pvpers so they don't worry about other people that comes in their way. They never hold items like flowers in their inventory, nor go near them, as they are very easy to avoid, and wear skulls when they aren't in their armor from killing so many skeletons like they would to gain mcmmo, wracking up even more happiness points. They then have the benefit of getting more luxuries to continue getting happiness, more experience than others to increase mcmmo levels faster, only making them stronger than before, less damage when being raided, and more land and/or for less money.
    Now lets take a look at faction B. Faction B has few members, eradicating the happiness bonus from being around others. They can't afford much, causing them to have less money in their bank and little food. They die a lot in raids from lack of experience, and often see many other people with luxuries. Their happiness plummets constantly, causing them to have to do more to get experience in mcmmo, less luxuries to make them happy than the average player, less regals making the poor problem worse, more damage when on their own land with slower healing capabilities than the average player, less food restoration for hunger, making the lack of food problem worse, and/or less land for more money.
    Maybe instead of some of these replace them with something more like effects that will be annoying rather than hindering like these, like mining fatigue or nausea? Only for small amounts of time of course, not permanently or extended periods of time. Also maybe certain levels of jealousy per item? If I saw someone covered in luxurious flowers I wouldn't care much, but with gold rings on their fingers and silk lining all of their armor, that would be a good cause of jealousy. Traits could also effect jealousy and other things, like loner making you happy even when alone, or hay fever making you lose happiness around flowers, but not being jealous of them.
     
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    #55 rw45431, Apr 15, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
  16. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    Okay, we take this into account. But let's say faction B work hard. Instead of whining about the large powerful factions around them, they fish for pearls, hunt for spices, wear silk and flowers putting them at 45 happiness. They ally a large, powerful and friendly faction getting them to 50, they trade their surplus resources making them equally as rich. This idea rewards hard work, and if you're unwilling to do so then you can only blame yourself.
     
  17. rw45431

    rw45431 The Psycho of Ravensong

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    That's just it though, not all factions (as a whole) are able to do hard work, ranging from things such as random player inactivity to lack of skills required to even be able to work hard at this kind of concept. If a faction has multiple members that go inactive or offline for large amounts of time often, or even at all depending on the length of their inactivity, would be sucking the happiness out of that faction. If they don't have pvp or pve skills, rarely trained their mcmmo, or even both, they'd have a problem procuring things in the wild. If flowers and silk grant happiness, (also possibly changing due to traits) people with more resources will get them faster than those without. Also, like I stated, they can't afford much in the first place,so without having things to trade, or even much to trade, along with their high faction taxes, they'd have to deal with hunting for the already-scarce happiness items in the wild with their low resources. While voting can get you good gear, that will only make death less likely, and seeing as not everyone can afford premium/can't get it for complicated reasons, they won't necessarily be able to keep their items upon death. Random death is an easy thing to come by in the wilderness from mobs, traveling pvpers, and anyone who hunts players, whether it be for happiness items or whatever it is they think they have. Now, sure, it'd be easy to just simply kick these people out of the factions, but that has potential to lose new people, older players, or anyone who would have trouble gaining and keeping happiness in general. This also could cut lots of time out of what people would rather do than just gaining happiness, such as people that only roleplay on the server. I sure wouldn't want to have to stop/put on hold roleplay just because I had to go hunt items I wouldn't even be interested in. Not only that, but when it comes to allying, most factions I've seen are either just large, just powerful, powerful and large, or just friendly. I can say that with 1 year and 9 months of massivecraft under my belt, a large amount of that time spent doing /seen and /f f. I also saw most of those either being disbanded, or losing power, friendliness, or many members from players quitting. Now I'm not saying all small factions won't whine a lot and that this happens with all small or weak factions, but it happens to be something I see commonly from my /f f adventures. Most pvp factions are big, powerful, and occasionally (but rarely) friendly, and most rp factions tend to be small and weak, but usually friendly. However, I still do see where you're coming from with hard work, I just don't see most people being willing to spend time just doing another thing that they have to do along with rping/pvping/wars/raids/moderating/coding/lorewriting/questmaking ect. This is why I'm glad you mentioned traits, which could help combat jealousy, or loneliness, ect. which is why I did mention that to at least lessen those blows. And, now that it comes to mind, I do realize that faction members who are inactive get kicked after a while, but that would be two months of lost happiness.
     
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  18. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    So basically what you are trying to say is that the problem wouldn't be the plugin it would be the faction itself. If you have lazy, inactive players either get hard working players or kick the lazy ones.
     
  19. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    So basically what you are trying to say is that the problem wouldn't be the plugin it would be the faction itself. If you have lazy, inactive players either get hard working players or kick the lazy ones.
     
  20. Jackmo_Jones

    Jackmo_Jones He's the Ripper, Jack the Ripper.

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    It's a game everyone has bouts of inactivity even players like myself. Theirs no point in punishing the whole faction for people having other things in their lives that take precedents.
     
  21. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    It isn't punishment as inactive players would not decrease happiness. It just would not increase it. No loss takes place.
     
  22. Party_Penguin27

    Party_Penguin27 exactly 43.5 various checkbooks

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    Its still pointless.

    Why add another system that the risks outweigh the rewards?
     
  23. rw45431

    rw45431 The Psycho of Ravensong

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    No. This isn't what I was saying at all. I was saying that the plugin would effect many factions on the server as a whole, causing them to not be able to raise their happiness because of inactivity or incapability. People aren't "lazy" just because they aren't good at a game or life takes precedence, it just means they do other things that is more important than running around in a game looking for flowers or silk. Getting "hard working players" which would basically be the people that have the time to not go inactive as much and/or are very capable players wouldn't be as easy as it sounds considering everyone would be wanting these players, personal arguments or disagreements, specific faction rules as compared to player preference, ect. Even though having inactive players wouldn't decrease happiness, but instead would prevent from gaining, that is still a punishment. Everyone has random bouts of inactivity from time to time, whether it be work, family, arrangements in real life, or whatever it is that their excuse was, it'll happen, it could be a few hours to multiple months, and it might not be a one-time thing, but an annual thing, annually causing a faction to be unable to get high happiness for an extended period of time and possibly keeping them from either gaining their perks or losing their curses. Sure, you could kick them like you said, but again, if this happens once or often enough (depending on the patience and temperament of the player) they may just quit, which isn't really a good thing, especially if it's a large amount of people. People who never do anything other than roleplay wouldn't be benefited by this, and people who pvp, but also actively roleplay, could potentially be harmed, as roleplayers would have to leave their comfort zone, go out into what they aren't used to do something they don't want to, and waste their time forcing them to pause whatever it is they were just roleplaying about. Pvpers would have to take time away from their wars and raids so they could go find happiness items, which barely even benefit them outside their own land. Factions with multiple inactive/incompetent players would suffer from this, getting raided often as easy targets, being unable to ally bigger factions easily from unwillingness to lose a happiness source. If people didn't go inactive often, or if everyone had the time and willingness to get better at minecraft, this would be a different story, and I wouldn't be saying any of this, but they don't and I am. Punishing players for wanting to decide what they want to do with their time is completely pointless is what I was mostly trying to get across with all of that, not saying that factions are the problem. Also like I stated above, sure, many factions would be whiney and/or complain, but there isn't anything anyone can do about that. It's going to happen and those people need to get over their situation but the loss that inactive and incompetent players will bring by making factions unable to raise happiness past whatever they were at at the time of leaving/whatever it is they have the ability to keep it at, that is loss. I only call it loss because it prevents high happiness. If you have a faction at 25 happiness, and a player has to go do something in real life for a while and logs off, going inactive for a few days, and in these few days people would be logging off and on, possibly going inactive themselves for whatever reason, the happiness they could achieve would cap at 25 and is likely to stay around there or deplete, regardless of trading, happiness hunting,raids, ect. and it makes no sense for the faction to be punished because one player temporarily left. I know I (While I doubt many people have a similar situation) have to go inactive for extended periods of time, ranging from a week to 3 months, for personal reasons. My faction members don't kick me, they keep me in until the plugin kicks me for being an inactive player. However, the traits could combat these situations, depending on how you make the traits specifically, like how I had stated previously with hayfever and loner. I know this is long and probably a little repetative at times, but I'm typing this immediately after waking up so apologies if it is.
     
  24. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    Your saying that becoming unhappy is a punishment? It's an easy fix, you stop losing happiness after 3 days of inactivity. The server recognises you are gone and deals with it. Inexperience doesn't have a lot to do with it, as it is so easy to get regals and train mcmmo now a'days.
     
  25. rw45431

    rw45431 The Psycho of Ravensong

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    I was saying the downsides of happiness and their eternal, downward spiral of losing happiness was an unneeded punishment, not being unhappy itself. Which is really all I've been trying to say this entire time. The downsides need to be more realistic, not something that just spirals you downward once you get to a certain happiness level. Though the 3 days is a good fix for inactive players, I do have the question of does it still show up in the overall? Because that would prevent them from getting higher than whatever-the-level-is-at-that-moment. The happiness downsides seem a little, well... unneeded. Or at least as what they are. If they're unhappy enough, it'd end up being a series of making the hard-to-find happiness items harder to find, making their deaths during raids on their land easier than normal, and have to pay more money for their land which could change the tax very little to they're gonna go bankrupt, depending on the size of the faction. The only reason I'm sure of the happiness items being scarce is well... look at what happened to sheep, cows, pigs, and chickens. That's one of the rarest things you can even find on massivecraft. I was thinking something like short, random negative effects that you'd normally have when unhappy, like mining fatigue or slowness. Not permanent effects or (except at the farther levels of unhappiness, like -45 to -50) long lasting (5-10ish minutes) but something that only lasts a minute or two. As the happiness level goes down, the effects would last longer and become more frequent, becoming troublesome at levels -40 to -50. Also maybe instead of an overall percentage of a faction, it depends on the per-person happiness on who gets the effects. I mean, if one person was causing a faction's overall to be -1, theres no reason to punish the other members for that one member's problem.
     
  26. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    1: I don't see what role players problem is with pvpers. I like pvp, but I'm a friendly guy. With over 2 years of massivecraft experience, I have seen many factions crash and burn as well as thrive and succeed. Just so that I'm clear, pvpers will raid small, weak factions to secure their craving for blood. I have to break in any God weapons or armour I make just for lucks sake, the best way of doing that is to soak it in the blood of a non prem.
    2: What if there were roleplay opportunities to gain luxuries? I'd like to make it averaged so that a large faction has to try and keep all its members happy, instead of the most active. Think about it, the more unhappy/inactivecitizens you have, the lower your average will be. Giving smaller factions a chance to develop.
     
  27. CFLPlayer

    CFLPlayer Muppet Lover.

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    Part penguin, I sdressed the issue and came at it from another angle. There is no problem as role players and pvpers can get happiness.
     
  28. rw45431

    rw45431 The Psycho of Ravensong

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    This actually addresses any issues I could think of. If the people had troubles flower hunting in the wild, they could buy opium from the tavern. people who aren't active could just up their happiness to max by buying a bunch of opium or beer, remedying their happiness low. Those who want to trade could do it easily by getting silk from a store. This definitely fixes the issue I was having as if you make it as easy as going to a tavern and buying a stack of opium theres no reason to have low happiness.
     

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