Archived Mcmmo Suggestion - Daze Damage

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XvW

XvW

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Hello everybody,
For a while now I have seen a lot of discussions about the Buffing and Nerfing of MCMMO skills. However, I have yet to see one about archery.

Archery is (in my opinion) very weak in fights involving high enchanted "God" gear and is therefor rarely used in battles. How do we solve this as easily as possible without making it unbalanced?
I do not think the regular bow damaged should be buffed considering that MCMMO already has it set to 200% at level 1000, this would make it way too powerful in battles against foes that do not have high skill or use unenchanted gear.

Archery also has a skill called Daze. What most people know is that the current Daze skill disorients the enemy by making them look at the sky and gain nausea.
What most people do not know however is that it also deals 2 hearts of bonus damage as stated on the MCMMO wiki "Forces your opponent to stare at the sky, unable to attack, and deals 4 damage (2 hearts) extra."
This is what I think should be improved, I think that the Bonus Damage should be Heightened enough to make a difference in a battle since the skill right now is only a nuisance.

All of these settings should already be in the code of the current MCMMO plugin and will most likely be easy to edit (at least for Cayorion the Almighty).

I hope this will be implemented so that more people can share my joy in shooting arrows at people :P

Thank You for taking your time to read this, please add your comments below
-XVW

Edit:
So I just tested this in-game by shooting with a Power 5 bow at @Rooseus .
The first shot dealt half a heart of impact damage and a 1-1.5 burning damage.
Second shot was DAZE the damage was the same as the previous shot.
He was wearing "God" armor, his race was: Dwarf
My race: Elf

Edit 2:
Located the config for Daze in the config file: Advanced.yml :

Archery:
SkillShot:
# IncreaseLevel: Every <IncreaseLevel> the skillshot bonus will go up by <IncreasePercentage>
# IncreasePercentage: This is a percentage value, 0.1 = 10%
# MaxBonus: When the <MaxBonus> has been reached, the bonus percentage will not go up anymore. 2.0 = 200%
IncreaseLevel: 50
IncreasePercentage: 0.1
MaxBonus: 2.0
MaxDamage: 9.0
Daze:
# ChanceMax: Maximum chance of causing daze to opponents when on <MaxBonusLevel> or higher
# MaxBonusLevel: Maximum bonus level of Daze, when a player reaches this level his chance of causing a daze will be <ChanceMax>
# Modifier: Extra damage for arrows that cause a daze (2 damage = 1 heart)
ChanceMax: 50.0
MaxBonusLevel: 1000
Modifier: 4.0
Retrieve:
# ChanceMax: Maximum chance of retrieving arrows when on <MaxBonusLevel> or higher
# MaxBonusLevel: Maximum bonus level for Arrow retrieval, at this level the chance of retrieving arrows from mobs is <ChanceMax>
ChanceMax: 100.0
MaxBonusLevel: 1000
 
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Archery isnt useless if you can hit your target. I dont know why people complain about it, all the time my friends and I tear people and eachother apart with our arrows. A bow has the potential to do the most damage of any item, with the power V encahnt plus the full (what is it 180 or 200% skillshot bonus damage? If its 200, its like having a strengthpotion on yourself with 0 archery.) With a strength potion drawn back all the way and fire.
You can easily tear apart someone in god armor if you're a good shot. Instead of trying to have it buffed, try practicing hiting your mark and upping your stat. Mine isnt even that high (500+) and its incredibly useful.
 
Archery isnt useless if you can hit your target. I dont know why people complain about it, all the time my friends and I tear people and eachother apart with our arrows. A bow has the potential to do the most damage of any item, with the power V encahnt plus the full (what is it 180 or 200% skillshot bonus damage? If its 200, its like having a strengthpotion on yourself with 0 archery.) With a strength potion drawn back all the way and fire.
You can easily tear apart someone in god armor if you're a good shot. Instead of trying to have it buffed, try practicing hiting your mark and upping your stat. Mine isnt even that high (500+) and its incredibly useful.
 
KSTRandom said:
Archery isnt useless if you can hit your target. I dont know why people complain about it, all the time my friends and I tear people and eachother apart with our arrows. A bow has the potential to do the most damage of any item, with the power V encahnt plus the full (what is it 180 or 200% skillshot bonus damage? If its 200, its like having a strengthpotion on yourself with 0 archery.) With a strength potion drawn back all the way and fire.
You can easily tear apart someone in god armor if you're a good shot. Instead of trying to have it buffed, try practicing hiting your mark and upping your stat. Mine isnt even that high (500+) and its incredibly useful.
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I'm guessing you mean when people have unenchanted armor? This is why the regular bow damage should not be heightened. I can stand with a power 5 bow and a strength 2 potion and get 10 successful consecutive hits on a "god" armored enemy without dealing lethal damage if they have a fire protection potion active (my archery is 1000+). This, along with the fact that it is harder to hit with a bow than with a sword or an axe, puts archers at a disadvantage in a 1v1 situation which discourages the use of a bow in a battle against high level pvpers
 
KSTRandom said:
Archery isnt useless if you can hit your target. I dont know why people complain about it, all the time my friends and I tear people and eachother apart with our arrows. A bow has the potential to do the most damage of any item, with the power V encahnt plus the full (what is it 180 or 200% skillshot bonus damage? If its 200, its like having a strengthpotion on yourself with 0 archery.) With a strength potion drawn back all the way and fire.
You can easily tear apart someone in god armor if you're a good shot. Instead of trying to have it buffed, try practicing hiting your mark and upping your stat. Mine isnt even that high (500+) and its incredibly useful.
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Strength does not effect ranged damage. As well, if you look at a strength 2 potion, you would have to be level 650 to counter that, and when in close combat you can hit more times a second. I highly doubt that you would be the only competent archer in Masivecraft seeing how the entire community is yelling for it to be buffed from axe users like Thor, alamutians like cowboys, and many other people that are good at PVP. To say that they are all bad at archery is absurd.
 
Waminer said:
Strength does not effect ranged damage. As well, if you look at a strength 2 potion, you would have to be level 650 to counter that, and when in close combat you can hit more times a second. I highly doubt that you would be the only competent archer in Masivecraft seeing how the entire community is yelling for it to be buffed from axe users like Thor, alamutians like cowboys, and many other people that are good at PVP. To say that they are all bad at archery is absurd.
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Okay a few things:
First, even with out that, at a distance you'd be pretty safe from an axe only user.
Second, you have to be an idiot to use bows at close range. Its almost entirely useless outside of mini-games. So, if you're using bows at close range against an axe user, thats your fault.
And I'm not necessarily saying they're bad, but I dont see the problem. I really dont. Its pretty dang effective.
 
KSTRandom said:
Okay a few things:
First, even with out that, at a distance you'd be pretty safe from an axe only user.
Second, you have to be an idiot to use bows at close range. Its almost entirely useless outside of mini-games. So, if you're using bows at close range against an axe user, thats your fault.
And I'm not necessarily saying they're bad, but I dont see the problem. I really dont. Its pretty dang effective.
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I don't mean to brag, but I'm a decent archer, I just don't use it since it's so underpowered. I only ever use bows to troll such as shooting an enemy when they stand right behind a door, or unless the enemy gets out one and I feel like having a bow fight.
 
[XvW] said:
I'm guessing you mean when people have unenchanted armor? This is why the regular bow damage should not be heightened. I can stand with a power 5 bow and a strength 2 potion and get 10 successful consecutive hits on a "god" armored enemy without dealing lethal damage if they have a fire protection potion active (my archery is 1000+). This, along with the fact that it is harder to hit with a bow than with a sword or an axe, puts archers at a disadvantage in a 1v1 situation which discourages the use of a bow in a battle against high level pvpers
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No, I really mean God Armored enemies. Its been pretty freaking useful. Just make sure to be high up and only use it at atleast a 5block distance. any closer and you need to switch weapons
 
Joshy54100 said:
I don't mean to brag, but I'm a decent archer, I just don't use it since it's so underpowered. I only ever use bows to troll such as shooting an enemy when they stand right behind a door, or unless the enemy gets out one and I feel like having a bow fight.
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I dont know how everyone is having problems with it. I mean, I guess if EVERYONE but ME thinks its underpowered it can be buffed up, but still, I just dont see the lack of effectiveness
 
KSTRandom said:
I dont know how everyone is having problems with it. I mean, I guess if EVERYONE but ME thinks its underpowered it can be buffed up, but still, I just dont see the lack of effectiveness
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You should get the Damage Indicators Mod and run a few tests on it. Also, get someone with 1000 archery to do it on a fully god armored player.
 
Joshy54100 said:
You should get the Damage Indicators Mod and run a few tests on it. Also, get someone with 1000 archery to do it on a fully god armored player.
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I have it. And only 500. And its pretty gish gosh darn useful-- by my tastes atleast. Mabye thats it too. Like, I consider getting 5-10 shots off on a player and taking them to around half health pretty darn useful. Because once they're on you, you should switch weapons to your sword/axe/fists/staff of exhile and wail on them.
 
I've been told that a God Bow against God Armor with the person having 1000+ Archery deals about 1 to 1 and a half damage, which isn't to bad, but personally I think Archery should get a buff.
 
KSTRandom said:
I have it. And only 500. And its pretty gish gosh darn useful-- by my tastes atleast. Mabye thats it too. Like, I consider getting 5-10 shots off on a player and taking them to around half health pretty darn useful. Because once they're on you, you should switch weapons to your sword/axe/fists/staff of exhile and wail on them.
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5-10 shots to get to around half health? :D Exactly my point. That's ridiculously slow to kill someone with god armor, even assuming they have no potions.
 
Joshy54100 said:
5-10 shots to get to around half health? :D Exactly my point. That's ridiculously slow to kill someone with god armor, even assuming they have no potions.
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5 shots normally gets someone around half, 10 might need to be fired for reasons of fire protection armor or fire protection pots. But for people with full prot 4 armor, should take a varied amount of 4-5. In the time that it takes for them to get to you in most instances, unless you're super far away, then you'll probably kill them. And I wouldnt say that its ridiciolously slow, considering, that its essentially the same as vanilla bows vs vanilla diamond armor. If they were more powerful, they'd be op. I mean, 5 shots for leathal damage is insanely fast. Someone like me or you who is good with archery could clear a band of Alamutians off the map before they reached us, if we were at a 10-20 block distance. And spam shotting would be much more effective. I mean, really, it takes like 10-15 hits to kill someone with just a god axe and decent axes anyway. I wouldnt say that its slow. I believe it does more damage than axes to someone in God, but the bow charge makes it seem less. From what I've observed (and I could be wrong, could be wildly wrong, and my memory from last night is failing me) Archery tends to do 2-3 damage, maxing at 4 from what I've seen. So compared to axes, which tends to do 1-2, with a max of double crit 3 (2 whole whopping hearts omg) vs 5 (2 and a half such damage wow). Granted, I could be wrong. I could be very wrong. What I just rambled off on could be entirely wrong and might have to be disregarded.
Regardless, Archery has never been an entirely viable tool in Minecraft, it normally cant be your only weapon, except in rare instances. And against heavily armored people in Mid-evil times, it wouldnt be either. While, based on the communities response I suppose its due for a jolt, a boost of somesort, you lot have changed my opinion-- I personally still dont see the issue with it
 
KSTRandom said:
5 shots normally gets someone around half, 10 might need to be fired for reasons of fire protection armor or fire protection pots. But for people with full prot 4 armor, should take a varied amount of 4-5. In the time that it takes for them to get to you in most instances, unless you're super far away, then you'll probably kill them. And I wouldnt say that its ridiciolously slow, considering, that its essentially the same as vanilla bows vs vanilla diamond armor. If they were more powerful, they'd be op. I mean, 5 shots for leathal damage is insanely fast. Someone like me or you who is good with archery could clear a band of Alamutians off the map before they reached us, if we were at a 10-20 block distance. And spam shotting would be much more effective. I mean, really, it takes like 10-15 hits to kill someone with just a god axe and decent axes anyway. I wouldnt say that its slow. I believe it does more damage than axes to someone in God, but the bow charge makes it seem less. From what I've observed (and I could be wrong, could be wildly wrong, and my memory from last night is failing me) Archery tends to do 3-4 damage, maxing at 5 from what I've seen. So compared to axes, which tends to do 1-2, with a max of double crit 4 (2 whole whopping hearts omg) vs 5 (2 and a half such damage wow). Granted, I could be wrong. I could be very wrong. What I just rambled off on could be entirely wrong and might have to be disregarded.
Regardless, Archery has never been an entirely viable tool in Minecraft, it normally cant be your only weapon, except in rare instances. And against heavily armored people in Mid-evil times, it wouldnt be either. While, based on the communities response I suppose its due for a jolt, a boost of somesort, you lot have changed my opinion-- I personally still dont see the issue with it
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Archery bouncing off people and leaving them with only a little scratch isn't exactly rpish... In medieval times, the Finley crafted bows could easily impale even the best armor in only 2-3 shots. I would think that it should be about 3-4 hearts a hit every hit, with a power V bow on a god armored individual.
 
KSTRandom said:
5 shots normally gets someone around half, 10 might need to be fired for reasons of fire protection armor or fire protection pots. But for people with full prot 4 armor, should take a varied amount of 4-5. In the time that it takes for them to get to you in most instances, unless you're super far away, then you'll probably kill them. And I wouldnt say that its ridiciolously slow, considering, that its essentially the same as vanilla bows vs vanilla diamond armor. If they were more powerful, they'd be op. I mean, 5 shots for leathal damage is insanely fast. Someone like me or you who is good with archery could clear a band of Alamutians off the map before they reached us, if we were at a 10-20 block distance. And spam shotting would be much more effective. I mean, really, it takes like 10-15 hits to kill someone with just a god axe and decent axes anyway. I wouldnt say that its slow. I believe it does more damage than axes to someone in God, but the bow charge makes it seem less. From what I've observed (and I could be wrong, could be wildly wrong, and my memory from last night is failing me) Archery tends to do 3-4 damage, maxing at 5 from what I've seen. So compared to axes, which tends to do 1-2, with a max of double crit 4 (2 whole whopping hearts omg) vs 5 (2 and a half such damage wow). Granted, I could be wrong. I could be very wrong. What I just rambled off on could be entirely wrong and might have to be disregarded.
Regardless, Archery has never been an entirely viable tool in Minecraft, it normally cant be your only weapon, except in rare instances. And against heavily armored people in Mid-evil times, it wouldnt be either. While, based on the communities response I suppose its due for a jolt, a boost of somesort, you lot have changed my opinion-- I personally still dont see the issue with it
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This is quite well thought out but you forget certain things, regen potions, ender pearls, and the unarmed skill. Regen means that by the time you've charged up you next shot they'll probably have regained the lost health. Ender pearls mean that people can close long distances more quickly. Finally, someone with 1k unarmed can just hold unarmed while advancing and block half the shots. All these I think reduce the effectiveness of archery as it currently is.
 
jquaile said:
This is quite well thought out but you forget certain things, regen potions, ender pearls, and the unarmed skill. Regen means that by the time you've charged up you next shot they'll probably have regained the lost health. Ender pearls mean that people can close long distances more quickly. Finally, someone with 1k unarmed can just hold unarmed while advancing and block half the shots. All these I think reduce the effectiveness of archery as it currently is.
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Well, ofcourse. But again, archery has never been a viable weapon on its own in Minecraft. The Archery system is based on that. Its good for a distance, but you'll likely be unable to use it the entire time. And the good news for the scenario you layed out, is many people you will fight are too lazy to raise anything but taming. So, you'll be safe from that in many instances. Regen potions are expensive, even moreso now then when ghasts were available- so you'll be seeing less of those until the new nether is released.
 
One day I'm going to post this myself for taming...
Anyways, Archery is a great ticket to kill mobs in a darkroom, theres no denying that. But when you are against a god armored person, you shouldn't even be near them in the first place. Enderpearls make it possible for warriors to toss themselves up impossible heights and slaughter everyone, then jump back down and get a graceful landing, with almost no health lost. The problem is the archer. If you can hit your target well, your basically above alot of other archers. Archery is also a great way to kill noobs, as they will never see it coming unless you are seen. So all in all, Archery is a great weapon against mobs and the weak players, but not the sword or axe. At the same time, using an enchanted axe will make you prone to traps, prone to creepers and mobs (If darkrooming) and is more like a suicidal death machine. I still respect axes (Its a bloody good weapon) But people need to focus less on other combat stats not competing well enough with axes. You can however, in an archer tower, be able to protect yourself. First off, have enderpearls to be able to escape yourself. Only shoot through slabs and stairs as it is harder for someone to pearl in, but decreases your accuracy. Another good idea is a trap (My favorite) Have a lever ready that not only removes all exits, but fills the area in lava. Quite useful IMO.
 
thor5648 said:
Archery bouncing off people and leaving them with only a little scratch isn't exactly rpish... In medieval times, the Finley crafted bows could easily impale even the best armor in only 2-3 shots. I would think that it should be about 3-4 hearts a hit every hit, with a power V bow on a god armored individual.
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3-4 hearts per hit? You'd be torn apart instantly. No one would use Axes or Swords or Unarmed or Taming. It'd all be Archery. PVP battles would last all of 10 seconds. Especially if you have a non archer decoy to distract you.
 
KSTRandom said:
3-4 hearts per hit? You'd be torn apart instantly. No one would use Axes or Swords or Unarmed or Taming. It'd all be Archery. PVP battles would last all of 10 seconds. Especially if you have a non archer decoy to distract you.
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I think he means the Bonus damage before it is reduced by the enchants
 
[XvW] said:
Hello everybody,
For a while now I have seen a lot of discussions about the Buffing and Nerfing of MCMMO skills. However, I have yet to see one about archery.

Archery is (in my opinion) very weak in fights involving high enchanted "God" gear and is therefor rarely used in battles. How do we solve this as easily as possible without making it unbalanced?
I do not think the regular bow damaged should be buffed considering that MCMMO already has it set to 200% at level 1000, this would make it way too powerful in battles against foes that do not have high skill or use unenchanted gear.

Archery also has a skill called Daze. What most people know is that the current Daze skill disorients the enemy by making them look at the sky and gain nausea.
What most people do not know however is that it also deals 2 hearts of bonus damage as stated on the MCMMO wiki "Forces your opponent to stare at the sky, unable to attack, and deals 4 damage (2 hearts) extra."
This is what I think should be improved, I think that the Bonus Damage should be Heightened enough to make a difference in a battle since the skill right now is only a nuisance.

All of these settings should already be in the code of the current MCMMO plugin and will most likely be easy to edit (at least for Cayorion the Almighty).

I hope this will be implemented so that more people can share my joy in shooting arrows at people :P

Thank You for taking your time to read this, please add your comments below
-XVW

Edit:
So I just tested this in-game by shooting with a Power 5 bow at @Rooseus .
The first shot dealt half a heart of impact damage and a 1-1.5 burning damage.
Second shot was DAZE the damage was the same as the previous shot.
He was wearing "God" armor, his race was: Dwarf

Edit 2:
Located the config for Daze in the config file: Advanced.yml :

Archery:
SkillShot:
# IncreaseLevel: Every <IncreaseLevel> the skillshot bonus will go up by <IncreasePercentage>
# IncreasePercentage: This is a percentage value, 0.1 = 10%
# MaxBonus: When the <MaxBonus> has been reached, the bonus percentage will not go up anymore. 2.0 = 200%
IncreaseLevel: 50
IncreasePercentage: 0.1
MaxBonus: 2.0
MaxDamage: 9.0
Daze:
# ChanceMax: Maximum chance of causing daze to opponents when on <MaxBonusLevel> or higher
# MaxBonusLevel: Maximum bonus level of Daze, when a player reaches this level his chance of causing a daze will be <ChanceMax>
# Modifier: Extra damage for arrows that cause a daze (2 damage = 1 heart)
ChanceMax: 50.0
MaxBonusLevel: 1000
Modifier: 4.0
Retrieve:
# ChanceMax: Maximum chance of retrieving arrows when on <MaxBonusLevel> or higher
# MaxBonusLevel: Maximum bonus level for Arrow retrieval, at this level the chance of retrieving arrows from mobs is <ChanceMax>
ChanceMax: 100.0
MaxBonusLevel: 1000
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Meh, of course your silly bow can't damage me I'm so stronk.
 
thor5648 said:
A well crafted arrow could easily rip through "Normal" armor back in medieval times.
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While this is true, that would still be OP. If you got only 2 people to aim at 1 person and have them each shoot twice, assuming they both have 1k archery, are using God bows, and are shooting at people wearing God armor, he would die so fast. That could ruin 'melee' PvP.
 
Joshy54100 said:
While this is true, that would still be OP. If you got only 2 people to aim at 1 person and have them each shoot twice, assuming they both have 1k archery, are using God bows, and are shooting at people wearing God armor, he would die so fast. That could ruin 'melee' PvP.
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I would think 4 hearts would be fair...
 
Perhaps just increase the duration and strength of the daze effect. Not the actual damage.

Just a point about archery, its quite useful in ambushes and sneak attacks. Get a group of 5+ archers fully equipped and trained and you have a decent pvp weapon. Its a team weapon that needs coordination and if done right can be much more powerful than melee weapons.

One note on medieval context, in the medieval times you did not get long-bowmen with full plate armor and a battle axe.
 
Overlordqwerty said:
Perhaps just increase the duration and strength of the daze effect. Not the actual damage.

Just a point about archery, its quite useful in ambushes and sneak attacks. Get a group of 5+ archers fully equipped and trained and you have a decent pvp weapon. Its a team weapon that needs coordination and if done right can be much more powerful than melee weapons.

One note on medieval context, in the medieval times you did not get long-bowmen with full plate armor and a battle axe.
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Yes, that is a good idea, i would have been content if another effect could be added alongside the nausea, maybe slowness, poison or blindness? However that will require a change in the src code and not just the config file and thus be harder and take longer to fix as it may screw up the whole plugin if not done correctly, which will require that cay looks at the rest of the code to make sure that won't happen.
 
Overlordqwerty said:
Perhaps just increase the duration and strength of the daze effect. Not the actual damage.

Just a point about archery, its quite useful in ambushes and sneak attacks. Get a group of 5+ archers fully equipped and trained and you have a decent pvp weapon. Its a team weapon that needs coordination and if done right can be much more powerful than melee weapons.

One note on medieval context, in the medieval times you did not get long-bowmen with full plate armor and a battle axe.
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When was the last time you were ambushed by five people with bows?

All you did was to further prove the weakness of bows, you can kill someone with full enchanted diamond armor in 3 hits with an axe, but you need a group of five people or more and a lot of luck to kill someone with bows, who would want to do that? You're saying that using bows is like crossing the river to get water. There is no denying it, archery is an underpowered skill that needs a buff
 
thor5648 said:
I would think 4 hearts would be fair...
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Absolutely not. Thats nearly half hearts. Thats a three shot kill. A god Axe is only capable of at max 3 damage (no strength potion), 1 and 1/2 heart whilst fighting god armor. A whole four hearts to God armor, and you've completely unbalanced PVP. All melee weapons have absolutely no ability to fight anymore.
And you keep bringing up that a well crafted arrow can get through normal armor. God Armor isn't normal armor. Its both very very heavy armor, made of DIAMONDS (which if you didn't know is one of the hardest naturally occurring things in the world, made of very tough, compressed Carbon bonds) AND ITS MAGIC. A finely crafted arrow wont be able to just slip through thick plate male made of diamond, which is also enchanted with protection magic that stops damage done to the armor and wearer.
 
hentem said:
When was the last time you were ambushed by five people with bows?

All you did was to further prove the weakness of bows, you can kill someone with full enchanted diamond armor in 3 hits with an axe, but you need a group of five people or more and a lot of luck to kill someone with bows, who would want to do that? You're saying that using bows is like crossing the river to get water. There is no denying it, archery is an underpowered skill that needs a buff
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An axe can do 3 damage max to someone in God Armor (This is base, no strength potion, I havent calculated the max of strength potions), A bow can do about the same, a crit does 2, and daze does 3-4 damage. So a max of two hearts. That isnt bad. Especially with a group of just two people, with fire arrows, and good aim. That isnt luck. Thats the ability to lead and hit your target.
 
I think these depends on your archery skill and your bow, I don't mind this being buffed, but what about race elves? They already can do extreme amounts of damage to me with low enchanted bows even with my god armor on, So when more elves attack you with bonus bow damage over 500 archery and daze damage I wish you farewell, besides this I would not mind it at all.
 
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