Lets Talk About Wars And Regalia.

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This may be a bit controversial but I don't really like the current way in which wars and guard RP is done. I feel like every new war is the same, ending in the same way and really bringing nothing new to the table. In this thread I will outline my problems with roleplay wars and combat roleplay in general.

The Progression Events:
Okay, I don't completely hate the use of progression events but I feel they are extremely overused and take away from the fun and player choice.


Most of the wars are done entirely through progression events. That really makes the wars seem unimportant and very forgetable. Wonder why people remember the Occupations? Because they felt important, big, and real! You actually got to interact with the Qadir or the Deathlings, which felt huge.

You got to choose what your character does to the enemy, and the enemy reacts back. And it felt intense because of this, like there was actual danger. In the progression events the danger feels artificial, canned. The writing is often amazing, but...

Its all already happened, you have no part in the battles, only your character does. Progression Events progress your character, but they just arnt whats needed.

Why are the Guards all ninjas?
Okay, that transition title is a lie, I think I actually know why. And it relates back to the way in which war is done.


Everyone wants to be a big, brave, heroic knight right? Who wouldn't? A soldier of the battlefield, swinging his awesome sword like a fricken action hero.

But what if being a soldier just means watching someone write about what YOUR character is doing a waiting for the yearly occupation?

Well then you become a part time guard! And your not some random guard, your Lord something something who fought in the battle of blibbity bloo. You've got skills.

And tons of other people have similiar plans, and soon all the guards know krav maga.

But should they? I dont think so. Regalia is a heavily military based society yes, but does this mean that the guards should have gear better then the actual soldiers, along with better training. No! Thats just ridiculous.

People wonder why nobody ever does surface related crime. The answer? Currently its impossible, if im a criminal and try to do anything at all ill be beaten up and tossed in jail.

Building this idea of super soldier guards can also inflate the ego of some playing guard characters. The vast majority of guards are fair in combat roleplay, but a very small percentage view themselves a demi-gods just because they are guards. They will insist that just because they are a guard they are more likely to win, even if the two characters are say both warriors in the school of Mariposa.

Regalia - The city that became a Mary Sue:
From a storytelling standpoint why does Regalia always win? I know why from a tactical standpoint, they have the best army and navy in Aloria.


But does anything change from them always winning? No. Everything stays the same, does anyone ever feel like Regalia might get utterly crushed in a war? No. Theres just no tension in it, the only tense moments are when a character dies.

There was a point at the end of the Lo Arc when I think @MonMarty said that if the Deathlings had more people signed up for the siege of Regalia then the Regalian side then the Deathlings would win the war.

I thought that this was really exciting because for once in forever Regalia wouldn't pull some Lord of the Rings crap where the heroes beat the bad guys because they have the power of friendship or something.

But they won. Oh well, atleast now we can see the consequences of the war by having an army of bitter Deathlings having to re-integrate into society, maybe later going to war together with the Ailors and both races learn to slowly accept each other over time after having to face a common enemy.

Nah bruh they all got turned into magic pixie dust and regalia went back to normal after a day pretty much.

This is the part where I stop complaining and offer solutions. While I know these wont all be accepted I ask that they are atleast considered.

"Skirmishes":

So yeah I know we can't have giant battles occur IC, but what if those battles were determined by smaller fights? So it goes like this a small fight is planned at a certain location, preferably somewhere like a watch tower in the countryside. A sign up is hosted, and a limit is put on the amount of people who can join. Lets say 5 per each side, not all people who sign up need to actually show up, just a good amount. If one side is outnumbered by 3 or more then the fight is pushed back a day, unless the side with less people want to fight the other side anyways.

The fight will function like any normal fight, with maim and kill perms having to be asked for. Depending on what happens one side will win, and this will impact the progression event of the battle.

"Because so an so was able to hold the tower the enemy had to divert half their force to retake it, thinning their ranks." Stuff like that.

Dont end occupations, spice them up:
You know what would be really dank? The Emperor steps down and no Kade wants the crown. A civil war starts between all the houses to take control, and people are forced to choose sides. Maybe different disticts are held by different houses.

Anything but the usual foreign enemy attacking and taking over only to eventually be kicked out.
Cmon lore staff, the possibilities are endless here.

Without the Witch Hunters Order and Crimson Inquisition keeping them in check vampires and rogue mages soon start to run rampant through the city.

I dunno, anything new really.

"Prodigys":
This is more related to combat schools but whatever. From what I said about guards it might sound like im salty about skilled fighting characters. But im not, I just dont see why the guys that are pretty much policemen have the skills of Navy seals.

Anyway this is more about Regalia's lack of legendary fighters. In Game of Thrones you have characters who are the best in the land, but Aloria doesnt have that.

Theres good fighters yes, but they never really go from being good to legendary. I think thats kinda a shame.

The idea for Prodigys is that every combat school has one prodigy. The best of the best, just one player per school. I think this is sort of needed because Champions are a bit too common now, and this would help bring back an elite fighter tier.


Okay, ive kinda got more stuff to say but I want this to be short enough for people to actually bother reading it. And no, this post isnt an attack on the staff, im just trying to help improve roleplay.
 
While I don't agree with some of the points made, I do agree that Progression Posts have warped our take on RP.
 
While I don't agree with some of the points made, I do agree that Progression Posts have warped our take on RP.

I do as well, I believe the Roleplay populace has greatly become dependent on the wars and progression posts to provide the meat to their roleplay while more casual and player driven plots have become less common and substantial.

I don't think the player plots or quality have changed but more so the feedback to player's actions. I feel they 'rippled' more through the community in the past than it does now.
 
I'm on the fence about a lot of the ideas stated, but one that particularly stuck out to me was the Deathling idea - integration of a foreign power into Regalian Society would've been nice. More occupations would also be memorable due to actual real-time interaction with the foreign powers, sure.

In regards to your mention of Prodigys, or Prodigies - the Grandmasters of Combat Schools exist. They're exactly what you explained - incredibly potent fighters that are 'the best in the land'. They're a heavily scrutinised special permission, but they do exist and can be applied for. You can find the application form in the Special Permissions section.

Hope this helped a little. ~

@Last_Link
 
I'm going to go section by section putting my two cents into things.
The Progression Events:
Okay, I don't completely hate the use of progression events but I feel they are extremely overused and take away from the fun and player choice.


Most of the wars are done entirely through progression events. That really makes the wars seem unimportant and very forgetable. Wonder why people remember the Occupations? Because they felt important, big, and real! You actually got to interact with the Qadir or the Deathlings, which felt huge.

You got to choose what your character does to the enemy, and the enemy reacts back. And it felt intense because of this, like there was actual danger. In the progression events the danger feels artificial, canned. The writing is often amazing, but...

Its all already happened, you have no part in the battles, only your character does. Progression Events progress your character, but they just arnt whats needed.
Maybe it was because I was stuck in the Buerg Elleng during the occupation and my only reaction with Deathlings was when we sold the Kronau Leaders to them and rode off in the wind, but I recall that there were a lot of progression posts regarding the various resistance groups (Kronau capturing rothburg, viridians gettings killed off, fleet rescuing the emperor, greygate, etc) The Occupation basically swaps the regular city guard with a different group, but it's the same thing system wise.

Progression posts allow people to interact with things outside regalia without having to rely on having 100 players playing footsoldiers or foreign enemies. You're lucky to even have 10 v 10 in a skirmish. Not to mention the development that comes with battlefield scaled events (aka, I just had my army wiped out by elves, and now my char hates anything with pointy ears and pacifists)

Granted that I play military characters and their progressions primarily comes from battlefield participation, but I digress. next point.

Why are the Guards all ninjas?
Okay, that transition title is a lie, I think I actually know why. And it relates back to the way in which war is done.


Everyone wants to be a big, brave, heroic knight right? Who wouldn't? A soldier of the battlefield, swinging his awesome sword like a fricken action hero.

But what if being a soldier just means watching someone write about what YOUR character is doing a waiting for the yearly occupation?

Well then you become a part time guard! And your not some random guard, your Lord something something who fought in the battle of blibbity bloo. You've got skills.

And tons of other people have similiar plans, and soon all the guards know krav maga.

But should they? I dont think so. Regalia is a heavily military based society yes, but does this mean that the guards should have gear better then the actual soldiers, along with better training. No! Thats just ridiculous.

People wonder why nobody ever does surface related crime. The answer? Currently its impossible, if im a criminal and try to do anything at all ill be beaten up and tossed in jail.

Building this idea of super soldier guards can also inflate the ego of some playing guard characters. The vast majority of guards are fair in combat roleplay, but a very small percentage view themselves a demi-gods just because they are guards. They will insist that just because they are a guard they are more likely to win, even if the two characters are say both warriors in the school of Mariposa.
I'm going to sub break this section down since I'd like to take this bit by bit.
does this mean that the guards should have gear better than the actual soldiers, along with better training.
Given that most of the military are composed of peasant levies, I do. Why would the city guard of a capital city be outfitted with subpar equipment? They protect the heart of an empire, so of course they are going to have some good plate armor.
a very small percentage view themselves a demi-gods just because they are guards
This seems like a simple solution to fix. Make a player report on the guard. Guards should be model roleplayers, so if you see one that is powergaming and flaunting their permission, let staff know. Or if it's just an IC complaint, tell the Lord Commander.
Currently its impossible, if im a criminal and try to do anything at all ill be beaten up and tossed in jail.
A gang managed to kidnap a consul during a noble assembly and charge ransom for her return. It is not impossible to do crime on the surface, as proven by this.

That's all I have to say on the guard. They are fine, and they aren't uber powerful. there are flaws in the system ICly, and some have already learned how to exploit it.
Regalia - The city that became a Mary Sue:
From a storytelling standpoint why does Regalia always win? I know why from a tactical standpoint, they have the best army and navy in Aloria.


But does anything change from them always winning? No. Everything stays the same, does anyone ever feel like Regalia might get utterly crushed in a war? No. Theres just no tension in it, the only tense moments are when a character dies.

There was a point at the end of the Lo Arc when I think @MonMarty said that if the Deathlings had more people signed up for the siege of Regalia then the Regalian side then the Deathlings would win the war.

I thought that this was really exciting because for once in forever Regalia wouldn't pull some Lord of the Rings crap where the heroes beat the bad guys because they have the power of friendship or something.

But they won. Oh well, atleast now we can see the consequences of the war by having an army of bitter Deathlings having to re-integrate into society, maybe later going to war together with the Ailors and both races learn to slowly accept each other over time after having to face a common enemy.

Nah bruh they all got turned into magic pixie dust and regalia went back to normal after a day pretty much.
In my humble opinion, Regalia is getting its ass handed to them in the Elven war right now, as the elves have managed to wipe out two armies without even trying.

Regalia wins because there is player backing behind it. The Deathlings lost because players wanted to have the Emperor back. If people liked the Occupation, they could've attempted to prevent the resistance from taking back the city. But in the end, there were more people on the pro-Emperor side, so they won out in the end.

All I can say is there is opportunity to both have Regalia win and lose. Get a group together and you can make whatever reality you want come true.

Dont end occupations, spice them up:
You know what would be really dank? The Emperor steps down and no Kade wants the crown. A civil war starts between all the houses to take control, and people are forced to choose sides. Maybe different disticts are held by different houses.

Anything but the usual foreign enemy attacking and taking over only to eventually be kicked out.
Cmon lore staff, the possibilities are endless here.

Without the Witch Hunters Order and Crimson Inquisition keeping them in check vampires and rogue mages soon start to run rampant through the city.

I dunno, anything new really.
Then the vampire and mage RPers should attempt to take over then. Having the Kades step down from power willingly defies logic. If you want the Kades gone, find someone to replace them. Revolution 101 right there.
"Prodigys":
This is more related to combat schools but whatever. From what I said about guards it might sound like im salty about skilled fighting characters. But im not, I just dont see why the guys that are pretty much policemen have the skills of Navy seals.

Anyway this is more about Regalia's lack of legendary fighters. In Game of Thrones you have characters who are the best in the land, but Aloria doesnt have that.

Theres good fighters yes, but they never really go from being good to legendary. I think thats kinda a shame.

The idea for Prodigys is that every combat school has one prodigy. The best of the best, just one player per school. I think this is sort of needed because Champions are a bit too common now, and this would help bring back an elite fighter tier.
There are Grandmaster fighters now. I think this point is addressed.
Okay, ive kinda got more stuff to say but I want this to be short enough for people to actually bother reading it. And no, this post isnt an attack on the staff, im just trying to help improve roleplay.
I'm glad you made this post. I personally saw merit in these arguments, and while I don't believe everything that was stated, it was good to reflect on things to see if there is room to improve.
 

I would bid anyone caution with this idea. It may feel tempting, though trust me, I've been participating and organising the events like that for a while now and to me these progression threads seem like the better and more efficient alternative.

For a single skirmish, you will probably need at least one DM. Then, if it is between players and has actual stakes, you will need a system for rolls and interactions that can get as convoluted as this one I use as well. And even then, you can count with the fact that these skirmishes will get boring very, very fast. The characters are bound to do the same each and every time, since it is their job in a war. And there is only as many ideas for a specific skirmish the DMs can have. Interestingly, when nearing the end of campaigns we tend to have more-and-more announcement-progressions over actual skirmishes too.
 
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Cmon lore staff, the possibilities are endless here.
They are, that doesn't necessarily mean they are good. The vast majority of poll respondents valued continuity above everything. Progressions spice up a setting, but completely overhauling the setting just because a select crowd of players think the setting is growing dull overturns the investment a lot of players put into effect. A lot of your rhetoric in your post approaches these issues from an IC perspective, instead of approaching them for what they really are: OOC mandates that exist for very concise management reasons. Logic assailing in such a case, becomes utterly irrelevant since it's not even a factor in considerations.

You'll find in most cases, the people who scream the loudest about wanting progressions of occupation that shake up the system, are also the people who are the most docile and just stand at the sidelines creaming about other people's roleplay instead of getting involved themselves. I don't focus on bystander role play.

I do as well, I believe the Roleplay populace has greatly become dependent on the wars and progression posts to provide the meat to their roleplay while more casual and player driven plots have become less common and substantial.
I disagree heavily and find the notion to be ill informed. Progressions come dry and wet, we're currently actually transitioning into a dry period because I'm losing interest to dedicate most of my time to progressions or I simply can't - the reality is that progressions happen at all because players say "I'm bored" or "There's just nothing to do in Noble Rp right now". You'll find when progressions disappear, players suffer the exact same lethargy when it comes to sustaining their own role play narrative.

Alternatively I'd argue those past player narratives revolved too much about glorification of staff with staff interactions, from a server management perspective trying to keep personal narratives involved is unreasonable. The 2016 end of year post made that obvious with 130 sign-ups and 40,000 words worth of content on the post itself, I told myself I'd never do that again because the server just became too large for that kind of personalized approach.

In case you can think of personal stories that took a more highlight and had more value than progressions - by all means - inform me, but from my own memory which serves me longer for being here, progressions were vessels upon which my best and most memorable interactions were built. They were not the progressions themselves, but the interactions had with people who are and became my friends through interactions that followed after the progressions, that came to be because of the progressions, not despite them.
 
I'm losing interest to dedicate most of my time to progressions
I just wanted to say (@everyone) that I believe that there was a section set up that allows players to submit their own progressions- if Im not wrong. Which means that even if Marty isn't writing a ton of progressions, we can still make our own. There's also the section for Regalian Roleplay where if you want to make some drastic thing happen or your character does something just post about it!
 
They are, that doesn't necessarily mean they are good. The vast majority of poll respondents valued continuity above everything. Progressions spice up a setting, but completely overhauling the setting just because a select crowd of players think the setting is growing dull overturns the investment a lot of players put into effect. A lot of your rhetoric in your post approaches these issues from an IC perspective, instead of approaching them for what they really are: OOC mandates that exist for very concise management reasons. Logic assailing in such a case, becomes utterly irrelevant since it's not even a factor in considerations.

You'll find in most cases, the people who scream the loudest about wanting progressions of occupation that shake up the system, are also the people who are the most docile and just stand at the sidelines creaming about other people's roleplay instead of getting involved themselves. I don't focus on bystander role play.


I disagree heavily and find the notion to be ill informed. Progressions come dry and wet, we're currently actually transitioning into a dry period because I'm losing interest to dedicate most of my time to progressions or I simply can't - the reality is that progressions happen at all because players say "I'm bored" or "There's just nothing to do in Noble Rp right now". You'll find when progressions disappear, players suffer the exact same lethargy when it comes to sustaining their own role play narrative.

Alternatively I'd argue those past player narratives revolved too much about glorification of staff with staff interactions, from a server management perspective trying to keep personal narratives involved is unreasonable. The 2016 end of year post made that obvious with 130 sign-ups and 40,000 words worth of content on the post itself, I told myself I'd never do that again because the server just became too large for that kind of personalized approach.

In case you can think of personal stories that took a more highlight and had more value than progressions - by all means - inform me, but from my own memory which serves me longer for being here, progressions were vessels upon which my best and most memorable interactions were built. They were not the progressions themselves, but the interactions had with people who are and became my friends through interactions that followed after the progressions, that came to be because of the progressions, not despite them.
I didnt call for the destruction of progressions or anything, all im saying is why cant some parts happen IC? Whats wrong with atleast attempting to put parts of a war into IC interactions that feed into the progressions in a small way? It would certainly give players a stronger sense of their character's interactions having an effect on the world, and would almost certainly not be as needlessly complicated as something like the battle of rothburg.
 
I didnt call for the destruction of progressions or anything, all im saying is why cant some parts happen IC? Whats wrong with atleast attempting to put parts of a war into IC interactions that feed into the progressions in a small way? It would certainly give players a stronger sense of their character's interactions having an effect on the world, and would almost certainly not be as needlessly complicated as something like the battle of rothburg.
We could do negotiations with foreign diplomats IC, but that still would be 99 people watching and 3 people talking.
 
We could do negotiations with foreign diplomats IC, but that still would be 99 people watching and 3 people talking.
"Skirmishes":
So yeah I know we can't have giant battles occur IC, but what if those battles were determined by smaller fights? So it goes like this a small fight is planned at a certain location, preferably somewhere like a watch tower in the countryside. A sign up is hosted, and a limit is put on the amount of people who can join. Lets say 5 per each side, not all people who sign up need to actually show up, just a good amount. If one side is outnumbered by 3 or more then the fight is pushed back a day, unless the side with less people want to fight the other side anyways.

The fight will function like any normal fight, with maim and kill perms having to be asked for. Depending on what happens one side will win, and this will impact the progression event of the battle.

"Because so an so was able to hold the tower the enemy had to divert half their force to retake it, thinning their ranks." Stuff like that.
Whats wrong with this idea?
 
Whats wrong with this idea?
The fact that Minecraft Mechanics are not a good or fun manner of representing character design, or world design. It's a really arbitrary way of doing progressions. It's like saying just because you can use Jump3 to jump into someone's building that your character should be able to, or just because you can survive in Minecraft for 30 seconds underwater without breathing, that your character can do too. Actual player PVP relies too much on server latency, player skill, composition of the armies, all things that have no bearing on rp whatsoever.
 
I can say I did enjoy playing out the battles and fights during the Lo Arc. Especially the siege of Rothburg. It was chaotic, and a mess, but it was one of the most fun things I did that year. Perhaps incorporating some things like that in some future wars, were we get a ton of players together to CRP out a small section of a battle that has some importance, like defending a general or a building, would work out?

As for Progression going stale, I tend to agree a bit, but I dont think OccupationCon 2017 needs to be a thing either. Personally I want this war to go badly for Regalia, and for the Empire to slowly continue to lose territory over the next 5-8 months through various progressions, only for us to eventually hit a stalemate and be forced to sign a treaty for peace in the end, granting the Elves basically all of Daenshore and some of, I dont know, Luitse (spelling?) and some of Ithania if they invade it. The Empire has been on a steady rise for ages now, having it set back and having the geopolitical landscape of Aloria be shaken up so much would be an interesting way to spice things up. And making it a more long term affair, like I said with battles over the next few months to slowly build up the dread and such, would be great.


Progressions are also, mostly, determined by Player Input now though as well. Gang Leaders like myself, and Generals, Admirals, etc putting in Reports for what they want to do. This is a huge improvement on the old system, works better, runs smoother, makes people feel involved.
 
The fact that Minecraft Mechanics are not a good or fun manner of representing character design, or world design. It's a really arbitrary way of doing progressions. It's like saying just because you can use Jump3 to jump into someone's building that your character should be able to, or just because you can survive in Minecraft for 30 seconds underwater without breathing, that your character can do too. Actual player PVP relies too much on server latency, player skill, composition of the armies, all things that have no bearing on rp whatsoever.
But im suggesting combat roleplay, not pvp.
 
I'd like to point out about the world progression system
I'm not going to quote sorry
But, a lot more IC groups are putting together fun little activities for players. The Telikos Beggers attempted to host a play
The Green Meadow Militia do weekly events (and I am a proud member of them)
So, world progression provedies me with rp topics to talk about during drinking games or just, simple stuff. For instant, i'm intresed in the latest things to do with the circci, my allar wants to learn more about these caecoons they have made.
And, my allar is also purchasing equipment for the upcoming GMM meet
so, I see this rant of world progression reports being 'boring' or 'pointless' invalid
But that's just my bit, we all have opinions and I respect yours! :D