Let's Talk About New Players. Again.

[Lyee]

In my previous post I talked about new players and ideas for a better start as well as how such could be causing new players to quit before getting very far. However, I've noticed a surprising amount are in arriving in the first place, about 0-2 on Week-Days, and 2-4 on Weekends. So... Where are they?
​

Along with observing the new new players, I have gotten to see other players interactions with them. And this is where I feel the issue comes in. Instead of helping these players by, in example, showing them the basics of roleplay and linking them to the Lore page, they simple ignore them, often making fun of them for their mistakes. After a few days of this the players finally get bored, or frustrated, and quit the server. My proposal is to, as previously stated, give these players more help learning how to roleplay the was MassiveCraftrers do, and show them how to get to the Lore page. Another issue is the non-compliant skins and characters. This can be solved rather simply by directing them to free skin-shops, such as @Ceilidhe offers. And this brings me to the next issue, the Forums. No where (from my finding) are there direct links to the forums, which I feel should be addressed.

You might be saying "But that's just roleplay!", and you're right. So now, let's talk about the Factions half of this. The other day I was in a TeamSpeak server with some fellow MassiveCraft players, when two of them got into an argument about the raiding of new, small factions. On one side was the "We should leave them and let them grow for awhile" where the opposing was "We shouldn't baby them. When I started I was raided all the time" and I think both have valid points. So, how do we get a compromise? I feel a good solution to this would be allowing these factions a 2-month grace period, given you are a 20+ Member faction, and they are not a Vassal (or alt faction). A secondary option is to allow factions with a leader who has >3Months on the server a grace period of the same duration, unless they are allies with a 50+ Non-Roleplay-Only faction. The same sort of system could also be used with the amount of Regals the faction has in their bank, as well as on the Leaders account (Aswell as leaders alts). While this would be an honor rule, I think Raid factions should consider following it, one reason being to allow the growth of factions who give more reward for raiding.
​

From my understanding the current location players start is Regalia. This is easily fixed with a primary lobby, containing teleports to both the Factions world, and the Roleplay world. A big 'Thank You' to those who have read this far, and an even bigger to those who decide to contribute their thoughts. That about wraps it up, so have a Massive day all!

 

[maddydaddyy]

I usually try to help new players when I see them especially with helping them get started on roleplaying. I usually spend a lot of time helping these new players. I also think people tend to refuse to help these new players because most are quite young and won't listen to what you are saying. It can get quite frustrating at times.
Also when I first joined the server there was a small tutorial set up for first-time players. It was where you spawned when you first joined the server. I don't really understand why they removed this tutorial because it explained all the basics such as how to switch from a chat to another and such. It also gave a few basic roleplay tips and a link to the wiki.
This tutorial was really easy to follow really and I understood what it was we were supposed to do. I still don't quite understand why this was removed from the server.

 

[Lyee]

small tutorial set up for first-time players.

Click to shrink...

Oh, that would cover a lot of what I addressed here...

 

[FireFan96]

New players start at the new hub area, which points directly to the factions map. clicking on either RP or Factions will tp a player to a tutorial hall, which they can choose to read or remain ignorant. Finally, they tp to either the faction map selection with a faction guide in their inventory, or the regalia with a rp guide in their inventory.

From two years ago, I felt it was a lot easier to get into the lore as a noob. I got stopped by the Violet Order for having red eyes, they let me go due to my ignorance, and then mentioned the wiki OOC in regards to vampirism and whatnot.

 

[Lyee]

New players start at the new hub area,

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While I would expect this, I'm not sure that's correct. I've encountered many players in Regalia who came to play Factions, which would lead me to believe they start in Regalia. On the note of learning by doing, it is a good method, but not one easily performed by most that I see now-days.

 

[ezalB]

I still think a better, 'dynamic' tutorial would be better than the wall of signs. Of course it's been brought up before by Staff and others, but I still firmly believe that something better than the current wall of signs would be good for new players. I tend to see many many people just pass right past the wall of signs, or skim through it.

Also the idea of NOT having the first spawn players teleport into being Regalia would be beneficial. When I joined I remember there being a large room with four paths, one leading to RP, one to arenas, one to factions and... one to mini-games. Which never happened. At least, I believe that's what it was.

 

[Lyee]

I just thought of something... Should I be posting these in the Feature&Idea Discussion section?

 

[maddydaddyy]

I just thought of something... Should I be posting these in the Feature&Idea Discussion section?

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Probably lol

 

[FireFan96]

I mean, the feature and idea suggested is already implemented. If anything this is just providing feedback on the system already in place.

 

[MolagBallin]

I tried helping a noob, I explained his skin was incompliant. Even went as far to make a new skin but he'd just refuse to learn and was extremely stubborn. If noobs don't want to learn, I personally think it is their choice.

 

[Lyee]

If noobs don't want to learn, I personally think it is their choice.

Click to shrink...

Whether or not it's there choice, less new players means less income, which means less time the server will exist. While I have defiantly been there with the whole "Stubborn Noob" thing, you just have to keep trying and adjusting yourself to help them, while you have the time. Of course, if there's another new player that does need help, I would make priority of them rather than the previous player. Note: Helping New Players isn't for everyone



Edit: I realize that I sound rather Rude and/or Condescending here so, my apologies for that. No ill-intentions are meant here.

 

[BenRekt]

I don't think new players getting raided is a huge problem atm. Not enough new players are joining where it would be. More focus needs to be put onto key issues like retaining current players so we don't have a self-perpetuating problem of 'I'm not going to play because nobody else plays' which is what is currently happening now and the exact reason the player count continues to decline.

Emphasis needs to be put on keeping players here, otherwise its like trying to give a blood transfusion to someone who is bleeding out.

 

[Reaganism]

Along with observing the new new players, I have gotten to see other players interactions with them. And this is where I feel the issue comes in. Instead of helping these players by, in example, showing them the basics of roleplay and linking them to the Lore page, they simple ignore them, often making fun of them for their mistakes. After a few days of this the players finally get bored, or frustrated, and quit the server. My proposal is to, as previously stated, give these players more help learning how to roleplay the was MassiveCraftrers do, and show them how to get to the Lore page. Another issue is the non-compliant skins and characters. This can be solved rather simply by directing them to free skin-shops, such as @Ceilidhe offers. And this brings me to the next issue, the Forums. No where (from my finding) are there direct links to the forums, which I feel should be addressed.

Click to shrink...

I have to say I disagree with most of what you write. I am what you could define as a "new player" only through a simple week on the server though my experience was vastly different. This could be because I roleplayed elsewhere before and most I had to learn was the technicalities and the minecraft-applied rules and courtesies (or because I'm an awkwardly docile person), but all I saw so far on the server was the openness and friendliness of the players and staff, extra kudos to @Tiber_, @Suicidium, @Brycea111 and @SpunSugar. This is Regalia, of course. My week's experience with factions is the players messaging me and trying to recruit me with very little information (For the first couple days I had the firm belief the factions were similar to the MMORPG guilds). I ended up joining the first faction leader who actually spoke to me about all the stuff and enlightened me and it turns out half the faction roleplays in Regalia.

More information could help? I have absolutely no idea of the major factions since, and the only reason I have an idea about the major groups in the Regalia is because of the guidance from Tiber and Suicidium.

 

[_Torivor]

Isn't there a little test after you've read the signs? If not then maybe there should be.
Now this belongs in Feature Ideas and Discussion

 

[MolagBallin]

Whether or not it's there choice, less new players means less income, which means less time the server will exist. While I have defiantly been there with the whole "Stubborn Noob" thing, you just have to keep trying and adjusting yourself to help them, while you have the time. Of course, if there's another new player that does need help, I would make priority of them rather than the previous player. Note: Helping New Players isn't for everyone



Edit: I realize that I sound rather Rude and/or Condescending here so, my apologies for that. No ill-intentions are meant here.

Click to shrink...

No worries, I didn't see any rudeness or condescendence in it. You're completely fine. Though helping new players isn't for everyone it's how noobs learn, I was a noob once. I was taught, I wasn't stubborn about it. Maybe there should be harder enforcement on noobs not being compliant?

 

[Lyee]

I have to say I disagree with most of what you write. I am what you could define as a "new player" only through a simple week on the server though my experience was vastly different. This could be because I roleplayed elsewhere before and most I had to learn was the technicalities and the minecraft-applied rules and courtesies (or because I'm an awkwardly docile person), but all I saw so far on the server was the openness and friendliness of the players and staff, extra kudos to @Tiber_, @Suicidium, @Brycea111 and @SpunSugar. This is Regalia, of course. My week's experience with factions is the players messaging me and trying to recruit me with very little information (For the first couple days I had the firm belief the factions were similar to the MMORPG guilds). I ended up joining the first faction leader who actually spoke to me about all the stuff and enlightened me and it turns out half the faction roleplays in Regalia.

More information could help? I have absolutely no idea of the major factions since, and the only reason I have an idea about the major groups in the Regalia is because of the guidance from Tiber and Suicidium.

Click to shrink...

Hmm.. Well thanks you for this information, but I don't see how any of what you said disagrees with what I'm saying, unless I'm horridly mis-interpreted... What I'm talking about doesn't apply to all, clearly, and you seen to be one of the lucky few who it doesn't.

 

[Reaganism]

Hmm.. Well thanks you for this information, but I don't see how any of what you said disagrees with what I'm saying, unless I'm horridly mis-interpreted... What I'm talking about doesn't apply to all, clearly, and you seen to be one of the lucky few who it doesn't.

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I am saying that I saw three times the effort from the side of Regalia and its RP community to integrate me as a new player compared to the factions side of the server.

 

[Lyee]

I am saying that I saw three times the effort from the side of Regalia and its RP community to integrate me as a new player compared to the factions side of the server.

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I mean, that's still half-agreeing. I'm glad RolePlayers were helpful, but that's not the case most of the time. And I thought I touched on Factions (but I might not have), because they are very much guilty of the same.

 

[Reaganism]

I mean, that's still half-agreeing. I'm glad RolePlayers were helpful, but that's not the case most of the time. And I thought I touched on Factions (but I might not have), because they are very much guilty of the same.

Click to shrink...

I was more meaning to highlight that the issue is reversed, I feel. Even if I arrived to play factions, I would have still gone through the series of the weird recruitment attempts to stumble into one leader finally explaining the what is what, and then probably end up roleplaying in Regalia seeing quite a lot from the faction popping up there. If this happens to every tenth player, it still means that the players arriving to play factions may just end up roleplaying in Regalia because the community is, well, more appreciative and open.

 

[Lyee]

I was more meaning to highlight that the issue is reversed, I feel. Even if I arrived to play factions, I would have still gone through the series of the weird recruitment attempts to stumble into one leader finally explaining the what is what, and then probably end up roleplaying in Regalia seeing quite a lot from Valorian popping up there. If this happens to every tenth player, it still means that the players arriving to play factions may just end up roleplaying in Regalia because the community is, well, more appreciative and open.

Click to shrink...

I agree whole-heartedly with the general point from this that I'm seeing. There is a large issue with the Factions community, whereas the Roleplay is relatively open and kind. My point with this was just that starting out has many problems, and with that I do acknowledge that some don't have nearly the same issues as others. On a different note, Welcome to MassiveCraft!

 

[Goldifish]

I still think a better, 'dynamic' tutorial would be better than the wall of signs.

Click to shrink...

In my beginning days, there was an interactive tutorial set up for us to learn. It did help, a lot. But my guess on why it got removed: It didn't work half the time. Few new players didn't get it and wandered hopelessly around.

 

[Eronoc]

Entering player here: I'd have to agree with the fact that this isn't the most accessible community. A lot of important information is scattered around, and while there are some in-game explanations of things, they aren't all easily and immediately accessible. I think the main repository for lore is on the wiki, but the wiki has a lot of things that aren't very well explained or, again, easily accessible. I have a grasp on the lore, I think, but I had to spend a lot of time looking around for things to finally be confident enough to make a character.

I personally had a lot of trouble just accessing the forums. The only way I was able to do it was by contacting a moderator in-game two days into my server experience. I couldn't access the document required to request forum account help - It would say that I needed an account when I tried - until @Satisarah saw me having trouble and sent me a direct link to it. In fact, she's been the most helpful overall in welcoming me to the server: probably wouldn't have been as inclined to stay without her intervention!

Being able to access the forums has helped me get a better grasp on things, but the lore definitely could be organized better.

 

[Lyee]

Entering player here: I'd have to agree with the fact that this isn't the most accessible community. A lot of important information is scattered around, and while there are some in-game explanations of things, they aren't all easily and immediately accessible. I think the main repository for lore is on the wiki, but the wiki has a lot of things that aren't very well explained or, again, easily accessible. I have a grasp on the lore, I think, but I had to spend a lot of time looking around for things to finally be confident enough to make a character.

I personally had a lot of trouble just accessing the forums. The only way I was able to do it was by contacting a moderator in-game two days into my server experience. I couldn't access the document required to request forum account help - It would say that I needed an account when I tried - until @Satisarah saw me having trouble and sent me a direct link to it. In fact, she's been the most helpful overall in welcoming me to the server: probably wouldn't have been as inclined to stay without her intervention!

Being able to access the forums has helped me get a better grasp on things, but the lore definitely could be organized better.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for your input! (Also, welcome to Massivecraft!)

 

[Conflee]

Entering player here: I'd have to agree with the fact that this isn't the most accessible community. A lot of important information is scattered around, and while there are some in-game explanations of things, they aren't all easily and immediately accessible. I think the main repository for lore is on the wiki, but the wiki has a lot of things that aren't very well explained or, again, easily accessible. I have a grasp on the lore, I think, but I had to spend a lot of time looking around for things to finally be confident enough to make a character.

I personally had a lot of trouble just accessing the forums. The only way I was able to do it was by contacting a moderator in-game two days into my server experience. I couldn't access the document required to request forum account help - It would say that I needed an account when I tried - until @Satisarah saw me having trouble and sent me a direct link to it. In fact, she's been the most helpful overall in welcoming me to the server: probably wouldn't have been as inclined to stay without her intervention!

Being able to access the forums has helped me get a better grasp on things, but the lore definitely could be organized better.

Click to shrink...

I feel like we should have more in-depth tutorials in game for people who want to go to them. Maybe instead of getting to the end of the Sign Room and just going straight to whatever spawn, theres an option for a "Deeper Dive" where players can get brief summaries of recent events, RP etiquette breakdowns with examples, an area with NPCs with example skins of Dos and Donts, etc. So they can pick to just ignore it, or they can go and read deeper.

 

[Lyee]

Maybe instead of getting to the end of the Sign Room and just going straight to whatever spawn, theres an option for a "Deeper Dive" where players can get brief summaries of recent events, RP etiquette breakdowns with examples, an area with NPCs with example skins of Dos and Donts, etc. So they can pick to just ignore it, or they can go and read deeper.

Click to shrink...

This, I feel, is a great idea, though staff are (should be) busy working on all the Factions stuff atm, so there'd be no-one to work on the commands and such. And trust me, I've gone into commands and such on my own servers and it gets rather complex.

 

[Devoruku]

I see your point, its extremely valid but I doubt it helps...
Im from the UK and on weekdays when I played the game as well as weekends (for now I just do forums) and iv seen at least between 2-30 players join around 12 o'clock midday. This is when the server is empty due to its American based so players go "oh its a low end server, im leaving", now im not saying that always happens but I see it a lot... and I mean a lot. This month I could report at least 60 to 70% did this because they join for RP and the server is empty.

 

[Lyee]

I see your point, its extremely valid but I doubt it helps...
Im from the UK and on weekdays when I played the game as well as weekends (for now I just do forums) and iv seen at least between 2-30 players join around 12 o'clock midday. This is when the server is empty due to its American based so players go "oh its a low end server, im leaving", now im not saying that always happens but I see it a lot... and I mean a lot. This month I could report at least 60 to 70% did this because they join for RP and the server is empty.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, timezones... I'm from almost as west as you can go, so I see different people joining during my time online. Also, why is this thread suddenly active again?

 

[Devoruku]

Yeah, timezones... I'm from almost as west as you can go, so I see different people joining during my time online. Also, why is this thread suddenly active again?

Click to shrink...

Magic, that's why~

 

[Satisarah]

Entering player here: I'd have to agree with the fact that this isn't the most accessible community. A lot of important information is scattered around, and while there are some in-game explanations of things, they aren't all easily and immediately accessible. I think the main repository for lore is on the wiki, but the wiki has a lot of things that aren't very well explained or, again, easily accessible. I have a grasp on the lore, I think, but I had to spend a lot of time looking around for things to finally be confident enough to make a character.

I personally had a lot of trouble just accessing the forums. The only way I was able to do it was by contacting a moderator in-game two days into my server experience. I couldn't access the document required to request forum account help - It would say that I needed an account when I tried - until @Satisarah saw me having trouble and sent me a direct link to it. In fact, she's been the most helpful overall in welcoming me to the server: probably wouldn't have been as inclined to stay without her intervention!

Being able to access the forums has helped me get a better grasp on things, but the lore definitely could be organized better.

Click to shrink...

Pleasure's mine, friend! I'm glad I was able to lend you a hand in getting a better grasp on things.

 

[The_Holy_Raptor]

when iffirst joined there was the interactive tutorial for rp, I looked up the wiki coz it told me too aswell, and I remember a big thing that helped, was that the tutorial literally told you "Go ordera drink from the tavern" which, helped me find my way around, and understand rp

 

[MokeDuck]

In my previous post I talked about new players and ideas for a better start as well as how such could be causing new players to quit before getting very far. However, I've noticed a surprising amount are in arriving in the first place, about 0-2 on Week-Days, and 2-4 on Weekends. So... Where are they?
​

Along with observing the new new players, I have gotten to see other players interactions with them. And this is where I feel the issue comes in. Instead of helping these players by, in example, showing them the basics of roleplay and linking them to the Lore page, they simple ignore them, often making fun of them for their mistakes. After a few days of this the players finally get bored, or frustrated, and quit the server. My proposal is to, as previously stated, give these players more help learning how to roleplay the was MassiveCraftrers do, and show them how to get to the Lore page. Another issue is the non-compliant skins and characters. This can be solved rather simply by directing them to free skin-shops, such as @Ceilidhe offers. And this brings me to the next issue, the Forums. No where (from my finding) are there direct links to the forums, which I feel should be addressed.

You might be saying "But that's just roleplay!", and you're right. So now, let's talk about the Factions half of this. The other day I was in a TeamSpeak server with some fellow MassiveCraft players, when two of them got into an argument about the raiding of new, small factions. On one side was the "We should leave them and let them grow for awhile" where the opposing was "We shouldn't baby them. When I started I was raided all the time" and I think both have valid points. So, how do we get a compromise? I feel a good solution to this would be allowing these factions a 2-month grace period, given you are a 20+ Member faction, and they are not a Vassal (or alt faction). A secondary option is to allow factions with a leader who has >3Months on the server a grace period of the same duration, unless they are allies with a 50+ Non-Roleplay-Only faction. The same sort of system could also be used with the amount of Regals the faction has in their bank, as well as on the Leaders account (Aswell as leaders alts). While this would be an honor rule, I think Raid factions should consider following it, one reason being to allow the growth of factions who give more reward for raiding.
​

From my understanding the current location players start is Regalia. This is easily fixed with a primary lobby, containing teleports to both the Factions world, and the Roleplay world. A big 'Thank You' to those who have read this far, and an even bigger to those who decide to contribute their thoughts. That about wraps it up, so have a Massive day all!

Click to shrink...

I don't particularly like grace periods because they start to lead to camping. I think that it can be good for new players to get sometimes, and that they aren't usually over-raided because, to be honest, raiding new factions isn't usually very rewarding. The number one problem I see with new players that start to lead factions is... well... they start to lead factions. I spent 2000r to start Celetil, because that was the current server-set price. I felt like that prepared me. I literally spent all the time I had on massive just grinding regals (but back then it was copper and silver) because I was dedicated. I didn't even see any factions with less than 10 players until the price lowered for factions to 200r and later to 100r. I know it seems like I'm being mad that I had a hard time and that since I already did it I want everyone after me to have an equally hard time, but I honestly thing it worked much better with a 2000r price.

 

[Lyee]

I don't particularly like grace periods because they start to lead to camping. I think that it can be good for new players to get sometimes, and that they aren't usually over-raided because, to be honest, raiding new factions isn't usually very rewarding. The number one problem I see with new players that start to lead factions is... well... they start to lead factions. I spent 2000r to start Celetil, because that was the current server-set price. I felt like that prepared me. I literally spent all the time I had on massive just grinding regals (but back then it was copper and silver) because I was dedicated. I didn't even see any factions with less than 10 players until the price lowered for factions to 200r and later to 100r. I know it seems like I'm being mad that I had a hard time and that since I already did it I want everyone after me to have an equally hard time, but I honestly thing it worked much better with a 2000r price.

Click to shrink...

What I see here is that you're saying you feel the Faction starting price should be raised, and I'm inclined to agree. While that'd be a set-back to Alt-Factions, it would make there be a lot more high-quality factions.

 

[MokeDuck]

What I see here is that you're saying you feel the Faction starting price should be raised, and I'm inclined to agree. While that'd be a set-back to Alt-Factions, it would make there be a lot more high-quality factions.

Click to shrink...

Yea, but more generally I'm saying that challenges to running a faction can be good for the server and more enjoyable as a whole. I am against babying new factions just to "help them along" because, in my mind, you should usually run a faction after you've been doing massive for a while.