Archived Illegalization Of String Traps

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BenRekt

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This will be short and to the point,
I believe I speak for a large portion of the PvP community when I say that string traps are annoying, COMPLETELY unrealistic, and becoming an increasingly common way to get yourself killed. If you have absolutely no idea what a string trap is, the gist of it is that you cover up a the ceiling of a hole, or a build, with string. If another player falls in said build / hole, they are helpless to ender pearl out and usually you will end up being swarmed fairly quickly by your enemies. Currently, string traps are not super prevelent besides in PvP factions which is why it would be beneficial in my opinion to remove them now, because they already have the major potential to severely change PvP, in what I believe, would be a negative way.

Thank you for considering my opinion on the matter and hopefully you share my opinion and / or can relate to my situation.

@Wannag @Joshy54100 @FubeTheMangler @togal300 @Waminer @Yoloorange @spoonly @Sarge_Peppers @Hagenhalo @Ha5h @MazzerDK
 
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Since the disagree option is gone, let me start with that.

+1 Disagree.

Traps are traps. If you're smart enough to set up a good one, or dumb enough to fall prey to one, then what results is perfectly valid. Minecraft has pearls that teleport you, fireballs, axes that cause explosions, vampires, etc etc. Realism falls off after a point. If you're really concerned about webs, there is a trait for that. Webfly is pretty awesome, and I'm fairly certain it exists for this reason. Perhaps you should stop and think about how to counter something before requesting for it to be removed.

That said, you don't have to agree with me and I don't suspect you will.
I do thank you for providing a decent argument (I don't really feel the points were valid, but you presented them clearly and concisely). I hope you run into less traps in the future, or learn to avoid them or counter them.

Peace.
 
Since the disagree option is gone, let me start with that.

+1 Disagree.

Traps are traps. If you're smart enough to set up a good one, or dumb enough to fall prey to one, then what results is perfectly valid. Minecraft has pearls that teleport you, fireballs, axes that cause explosions, vampires, etc etc. Realism falls off after a point. If you're really concerned about webs, there is a trait for that. Webfly is pretty awesome, and I'm fairly certain it exists for this reason. Perhaps you should stop and think about how to counter something before requesting for it to be removed.

That said, you don't have to agree with me and I don't suspect you will.
I do thank you for providing a decent argument (I don't really feel the points were valid, but you presented them clearly and concisely). I hope you run into less traps in the future, or learn to avoid them or counter them.

Peace.

I completely get what you are saying, I just don't like the idea of having a one-way barrier used as a trap that literally only works in favor of defenders and isn't really counter-able.

Also, unless FlyWeb lets you fly through string, these cannot be counter-able, which is my whole point entirely on why these traps shouldn't be legal, they are basically portal traps except sometimes they are slightly more visible.
 
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I completely get what you are saying, I just don't like the idea of having a one-way barrier used as a trap that literally only works in favor of defenders.

Also, unless FlyWeb lets you fly through string, these cannot be counter-able, which is my whole point entirely on why these traps shouldn't be legal, they are basically portal traps except sometimes they are slightly more visible.
It is up to the attacker to learn how to overcome defenses. Trust me, traps are rarely one sided, and when they are it means you are attacking from the wrong direction.
 
If you want to see what I believe every faction will do eventually, go to /f home Citadel (I believe), and as you can see Valyria is completely covered in string, making it virtually unraidable unless you have a death-wish.
 
It is up to the attacker to learn how to overcome defenses. Trust me, traps are rarely one sided, and when they are it means you are attacking from the wrong direction.
String traps are and always will be a less-elaborate portal trap (which have already been banned), because they are not counter-able, just like the portal traps were.
 
It's not always that easy. Most of the time they're designed as such that you will be shot or hit straight into them. People make piston traps into them too, making falling into them almost an inevitability. Oftentimes, traps are there to help factions not PvP inclined to have a small edge against their attackers, but when larger scale PvP factions use them, the fights are no longer enjoyable. Other traps can be used, ones that people can eventually escape from to get back to their /f home. These, however, in my opinion, aren't like that, as you will always be killed by a player, they are inescapable. I actually agree with what @BenRekt is saying here, after being on both the using and receiving end of these traps
 
Buy scissors.

guy_cuts_the_string_to_a_little_girls_disney_balloon-59396.gif


:D
 
I believe traps are an essential part of pyp. Yes, they may be an advantage to the defending side, but if you are attacking, you should expect no less. Being able to navigate through enemy territory while pvping should become a skill you need, rather than a skill we would have no need for by banning effective traps. Such as the spider web one. If the are obviously trying to get you to go down a certain alley, well, don't go.
 
If we ban these traps what keeps us from banning lava pits with a piston top that traps you in? Or how about a piston trap that closes on you 'til you suffocate in the wall? It's just as hard if not harder to get out of those. In fact the piston traps that trap you in a wall are literally impossible to get out without allowing yourself to die. At least in a string trap if you're lucky there really isn't anything stopping you from tping out. In a lava trap if you don't have fire immune or fire res pots you're not going anywhere and again the piston traps that trap you in a wall do not allow you to tp under any circumstance.
 
Two Things:
1) All good traps are 1-way tickets to death. Ban all the good traps and there's no longer any reason to build traps, because they won't be effective.
2) If you can't change your PvP style to avoid traps, perhaps you shouldn't be PvPing?
 
Two Things:
1) All good traps are 1-way tickets to death. Ban all the good traps and there's no longer any reason to build traps, because they won't be effective.
2) If you can't change your PvP style to avoid traps, perhaps you shouldn't be PvPing?
I'd like to draw a few comparisons between portals traps and string traps.
  • Portal traps were undetectable unless extensive inspection was done. You couldn't seen them, unless the particles showed, and you couldn't hear them unless you stopped long enough for it to make the sound. Hard to do while fighting and running.
  • String traps are undetectable unless extensive inspection is done. At a glance, string melds in with the sky around it, and you won't notice unless you stop and look at it from different angles. Hard to do while fighting and running.
  • Portal traps were banned because they took advantage of an exploitable mechanic that was never intended to be used that way. Portals traps were almost undetectable and offered no way out.
  • String traps should be banned because they take advantage of an exploitable mechanic that was never intended to be used that way. I highly doubt that with the implementation of string, its intended uses also included covering the entirety of the top of your base, making a seemingly open top, but in all reality you cannot pearl back through.
I will offer a way to people to counter this, as I'm completely open to looking at the other side. If you are a vampire, and the trap is set to where you fall into a hole and there is string at the opening, then if the hole is not too deep, you can jump out.

While this is a counter, I have only ever encountered two string traps while fighting that were pits, and could possibly be countered by this method, and only one of them was actually shallow enough to jump out of. While there is no doubt more traps out there that use string, I just haven't seen them. Yes, the purpose of a trap is to trap someone so they can't escape, but we do have to alter the rules a little bit here on MassiveCraft, we can't take everything literal. If we did, portal traps would still be allowed.

I hope I've given a bit of food for thought. While I personally dislike string traps, I see why people need and want traps. I am perfectly fine with a trap such as a retracting floor. The thing that makes this ok is that there is always a possibility to throw a pearl out as you fall in before it closes. String traps are super easy to setup, cost effective, and have zero work involved in the act of catching your enemy. The only thing you need to rely on for a string trap to work is a person's stupidity to get caught in the vicinity it makes trappable, or their false sense that an area is open upon first look, but harbors a trap that is almost undetectable unless heavily inspected.
 
I think the reasoning behind it is that these traps are so simple to create and just scar a city scape, while piston traps have to be carefully constructed and take some modicum of skill to create. They have to be placed in very specific places, which merely aid the defenders, and are not a complete method of defence. Traps are an assistance, and yes, I see the value of them completely, but they can be built so effortlessly, and can completely stop any and all PvP. Traps like this, while having similar outcomes to piston traps, lava drops etc., are far easier to create in large numbers, which people build to allow themselves to outmatch raiders almost 100% of the time.
 
I'd like to draw a few comparisons between portals traps and string traps.
  • Portal traps were undetectable unless extensive inspection was done. You couldn't seen them, unless the particles showed, and you couldn't hear them unless you stopped long enough for it to make the sound. Hard to do while fighting and running.
  • String traps are undetectable unless extensive inspection is done. At a glance, string melds in with the sky around it, and you won't notice unless you stop and look at it from different angles. Hard to do while fighting and running.
  • Portal traps were banned because they took advantage of an exploitable mechanic that was never intended to be used that way. Portals traps were almost undetectable and offered no way out.
  • String traps should be banned because they take advantage of an exploitable mechanic that was never intended to be used that way. I highly doubt that with the implementation of string, its intended uses also included covering the entirety of the top of your base, making a seemingly open top, but in all reality you cannot pearl back through.
I will offer a way to people to counter this, as I'm completely open to looking at the other side. If you are a vampire, and the trap is set to where you fall into a hole and there is string at the opening, then if the hole is not too deep, you can jump out.

While this is a counter, I have only ever encountered two string traps while fighting that were pits, and could possibly be countered by this method, and only one of them was actually shallow enough to jump out of. While there is no doubt more traps out there that use string, I just haven't seen them. Yes, the purpose of a trap is to trap someone so they can't escape, but we do have to alter the rules a little bit here on MassiveCraft, we can't take everything literal. If we did, portal traps would still be allowed.

I hope I've given a bit of food for thought. While I personally dislike string traps, I see why people need and want traps. I am perfectly fine with a trap such as a retracting floor. The thing that makes this ok is that there is always a possibility to throw a pearl out as you fall in before it closes. String traps are super easy to setup, cost effective, and have zero work involved in the act of catching your enemy. The only thing you need to rely on for a string trap to work is a person's stupidity to get caught in the vicinity it makes trappable, or their false sense that an area is open upon first look, but harbors a trap that is almost undetectable unless heavily inspected.

People should CAREFULLY scope out enemy bases before they comit to a raid, just like was and is done in the real world. Don't be lazy, be thorough.
 
I'd like to draw a few comparisons between portals traps and string traps.
  • Portal traps were undetectable unless extensive inspection was done. You couldn't seen them, unless the particles showed, and you couldn't hear them unless you stopped long enough for it to make the sound. Hard to do while fighting and running.
  • String traps are undetectable unless extensive inspection is done. At a glance, string melds in with the sky around it, and you won't notice unless you stop and look at it from different angles. Hard to do while fighting and running.
Funny thing is that when I went to Valyria last night, having no idea what a string trap was, I instantly noticed and understood what was being talked about.
 
I'd like to draw a few comparisons between portals traps and string traps.
  • Portal traps were undetectable unless extensive inspection was done. You couldn't seen them, unless the particles showed, and you couldn't hear them unless you stopped long enough for it to make the sound. Hard to do while fighting and running.
  • String traps are undetectable unless extensive inspection is done. At a glance, string melds in with the sky around it, and you won't notice unless you stop and look at it from different angles. Hard to do while fighting and running.
  • Portal traps were banned because they took advantage of an exploitable mechanic that was never intended to be used that way. Portals traps were almost undetectable and offered no way out.
  • String traps should be banned because they take advantage of an exploitable mechanic that was never intended to be used that way. I highly doubt that with the implementation of string, its intended uses also included covering the entirety of the top of your base, making a seemingly open top, but in all reality you cannot pearl back through.
I will offer a way to people to counter this, as I'm completely open to looking at the other side. If you are a vampire, and the trap is set to where you fall into a hole and there is string at the opening, then if the hole is not too deep, you can jump out.

While this is a counter, I have only ever encountered two string traps while fighting that were pits, and could possibly be countered by this method, and only one of them was actually shallow enough to jump out of. While there is no doubt more traps out there that use string, I just haven't seen them. Yes, the purpose of a trap is to trap someone so they can't escape, but we do have to alter the rules a little bit here on MassiveCraft, we can't take everything literal. If we did, portal traps would still be allowed.

I hope I've given a bit of food for thought. While I personally dislike string traps, I see why people need and want traps. I am perfectly fine with a trap such as a retracting floor. The thing that makes this ok is that there is always a possibility to throw a pearl out as you fall in before it closes. String traps are super easy to setup, cost effective, and have zero work involved in the act of catching your enemy. The only thing you need to rely on for a string trap to work is a person's stupidity to get caught in the vicinity it makes trappable, or their false sense that an area is open upon first look, but harbors a trap that is almost undetectable unless heavily inspected.

I do not completely agree with you. Seeing the string traps, are there to /eliminate/ the enemy, when of course a faction doesn't have the man power to defend it. (And allies aren't always around)

Portal traps could teleport you miles away from the battlefield, string traps keep you in the area, where you yes, indeed could be killed more easily, but isn't that a risk you take when you raid a base? It is the same as trapping the enemy with a retracting floor, with lava at the bottom or maybe one that closes up again above you? (Don't know if that last one is allowed.)

You also state that string traps will only get stupid people inside of it. So I dont think the majority of the members here don't need to worry.

As you state the base needs to be heavily inspected, I don t think that is going to be a problem? It will just take a bit more time.
 
I'd like to draw a few comparisons between portals traps and string traps.
  • String traps should be banned because they take advantage of an exploitable mechanic that was never intended to be used that way. I highly doubt that with the implementation of string, its intended uses also included covering the entirety of the top of your base, making a seemingly open top, but in all reality you cannot pearl back through.
I disagree. While portals are a feature that Massivecraft has and most normal servers don't use the portal plugin, string traps can be made on any vanilla server. Yes when string was put into the game, it wasn't intended to be used in pvp traps, but neither were pistons. String as a block isn't being modified in any way, and it isn't gaining any special properties. String traps aren't breaking any in-game mechanics, and they aren't abusing any of the server's plugins. There's really no reason for them to be banned.
 
@Cielian
String traps are more than just in the ground. String is set up in the sky, above bases too ensure people cannot pearl away. I don't know this for a fact but I am almost positive that having hundreds of string just hanging there is creating much more lag, some player's PC's or laptops cannot handle that kind of lag.
@Gabauchi
Let me tell you something honest. If a faction was going to be beaten anyways, some string traps wont save it. String traps aren't designed to kill. They're made to try to block out a Vanilla Minecraft mechanic which is enderpearls. If a "weaker" faction is going to have string traps and a much stronger faction raids them, I promise you, the defenders can do what they want but if they are truly weaker the string traps wont save them.
@Mecharic About your comment about scoping out bases : I know 2 factions that have string Lined up across the entire SKYLINE. It wont matter if I see them, they cause immense lag, and even by scoping them out there is no way I, or any other person can effectively get around the fact that they disable what enderpearls are supposed to do.

The basic point of my post is to outline some major facts
1) It isnt just string traps in the ground, they cover the top of a faction base, making it seem that there is a sky, then in reality the string just blocks the pearl.
2)String traps wont aid a weak faction against a strong one, I promise you that.
3) No amount of "Scoping" out a base will help you if it's riddled with string all over the sky.

Also, Mecharic about your 2 'reasons' about traps ;
1.This string trap doesn't lead to death. It leads to entrapment, but it causes immense lag due to the sheer amount of entities you're placing above and below your base!
2. Please, Please, Please, don't say "If you cant adjust your pvp style to traps, maybe you shouldn't be PvPing" I'm fine with piston, pitfall and drowning traps. But these string traps cause lag and make it hard to use enderpearls inside a base, and even outside a base because the string is lined up ALL across the sky. Many new PvP'ers will be extremely discouraged by these traps, and those people without godly computers are greatly impacted. Unless you start PvP'ing and seriously get into the PvP style of massive (Which I highly encourage you or anyone else to do, its really fun :) ) you don't and can't understand how bad these traps affect the overall play style of minecraft, especially because they basically destroy what enderpearls were meant to do, which is to get you out of somewhere/get you to somewhere, which is hard to do when string is everywhere.
 
Really? Why is there the need to take all fun things out?
Traps are ment to trap people. Deal with it. Your arguments are nothing worth by the way. It's like.... 'people fall in a trap and they are swarmed by enemies immediately'. So that's why we need to disable traps. Right? That really makes no sense. Why are you raiding people in the first place? No one invited you, so deal with it the consequences of being an un-welcomed one.

I actually have a question. Why do you want to oblige people to come out there and fight overpowered PvP'ers? Traps are ideal for non-prems and people less good at fighting.
 
@Mecharic About your comment about scoping out bases : I know 2 factions that have string Lined up across the entire SKYLINE. It wont matter if I see them, they cause immense lag, and even by scoping them out there is no way I, or any other person can effectively get around the fact that they disable what enderpearls are supposed to do.

The basic point of my post is to outline some major facts
1) It isnt just string traps in the ground, they cover the top of a faction base, making it seem that there is a sky, then in reality the string just blocks the pearl.
2)String traps wont aid a weak faction against a strong one, I promise you that.
3) No amount of "Scoping" out a base will help you if it's riddled with string all over the sky.


Also, Mecharic about your 2 'reasons' about traps ;
1.This string trap doesn't lead to death. It leads to entrapment, but it causes immense lag due to the sheer amount of entities you're placing above and below your base!
2. Please, Please, Please, don't say "If you cant adjust your pvp style to traps, maybe you shouldn't be PvPing" I'm fine with piston, pitfall and drowning traps. But these string traps cause lag and make it hard to use enderpearls inside a base, and even outside a base because the string is lined up ALL across the sky. Many new PvP'ers will be extremely discouraged by these traps, and those people without godly computers are greatly impacted. Unless you start PvP'ing and seriously get into the PvP style of massive (Which I highly encourage you or anyone else to do, its really fun :) ) you don't and can't understand how bad these traps affect the overall play style of minecraft, especially because they basically destroy what enderpearls were meant to do, which is to get you out of somewhere/get you to somewhere, which is hard to do when string is everywhere.

Wannag, when I refer to a "trap" I mean traps that can be avoided with good sense, strategy, a little effort, and some adaption to your style of fighting (like avoiding areas that could have traps in them, or just general caution when raiding a base). I do not mean "giant dome of string" traps, as these traps are no longer traps - they are domes. And domes are banned unless they fit into the theme & lore of MassiveCraft (trees/giant spiderweb city/underground). From the description you have, this is not a dome that fits into lore (unless you're including One Piece's Dolflamingo in lore) and as such should be removed by staff by way of ticket.

I am only against removing string traps that are small, like pit traps but with a string over the top, or realistic, like string between two large, cobweb covered structures.

Also, I only like friendly PvP where items are returned because the point is to enjoy combat, rather than to win. So I doubt I will ever become a major PvPer on Massive.
 
This thread is mostly centered towards these MASSIVE string covered bases that completely abuse string mechanics as 1 way nearly invisible ender pearl barriers.

@Mecharic @JeffAlexW @Cielian @Ellimairy
So then maybe that should have been stated a little more clearly in your initial post. As far as wannags argument of a string covered skyline causing immense lag well in that respect I am in complete agreement that should not be allowed. However I think small string traps should be OK. So don't ban them outright just put limits on how they can be constructed.
 
Partial rules are not helpful. Lack of clarity leads to confusion and gray situations. How about we rely on the pvp staff to do what they were conceived to do instead of making presumptuous decisions on the matter.
 
Good thing I know how to make resourcepacks, the string in mine is red and easily spotted. I'm never getting trapped if I don't want to >:) And also one thing: I've check almost all bases that use these string traps, and I've not found any that do not have a small hole that has allowed me to trick my opponent into thinking I am trapped, then making them 'over extend' themselves by making them try ultra hard to kill me. I then easily finish them off in their own trap and escape :$
 
Good thing I know how to make resourcepacks, the string in mine is red and easily spotted. I'm never getting trapped if I don't want to >:) And also one thing: I've check almost all bases that use these string traps, and I've not found any that do not have a small hole that has allowed me to trick my opponent into thinking I am trapped, then making them 'over extend' themselves by making them try ultra hard to kill me. I then easily finish them off in their own trap and escape :$
Gimme pls bae
 
Good thing I know how to make resourcepacks, the string in mine is red and easily spotted. I'm never getting trapped if I don't want to >:) And also one thing: I've check almost all bases that use these string traps, and I've not found any that do not have a small hole that has allowed me to trick my opponent into thinking I am trapped, then making them 'over extend' themselves by making them try ultra hard to kill me. I then easily finish them off in their own trap and escape :$
Good idea. Ima do the same with mine. :D
 
I 100% agree with @BenRekt , those fights at Alamut a couple months back where the entire base was covered in string were the worst. The second the gates closed you either wspawned out or died. Im ok with small string traps because I believe a defending faction should be able to use whatever is necessary to defend their land. BUT in the case where an entire base has a roof of string there is a problem. It gives off the illusion of an open roofed base but is no different than an entire base covered in glass.
 
@Cielian
String traps are more than just in the ground. String is set up in the sky, above bases too ensure people cannot pearl away. I don't know this for a fact but I am almost positive that having hundreds of string just hanging there is creating much more lag, some player's PC's or laptops cannot handle that kind of lag.
@Gabauchi
Let me tell you something honest. If a faction was going to be beaten anyways, some string traps wont save it. String traps aren't designed to kill. They're made to try to block out a Vanilla Minecraft mechanic which is enderpearls. If a "weaker" faction is going to have string traps and a much stronger faction raids them, I promise you, the defenders can do what they want but if they are truly weaker the string traps wont save them.
@Mecharic About your comment about scoping out bases : I know 2 factions that have string Lined up across the entire SKYLINE. It wont matter if I see them, they cause immense lag, and even by scoping them out there is no way I, or any other person can effectively get around the fact that they disable what enderpearls are supposed to do.

The basic point of my post is to outline some major facts
1) It isnt just string traps in the ground, they cover the top of a faction base, making it seem that there is a sky, then in reality the string just blocks the pearl.
2)String traps wont aid a weak faction against a strong one, I promise you that.
3) No amount of "Scoping" out a base will help you if it's riddled with string all over the sky.


Also, Mecharic about your 2 'reasons' about traps ;
1.This string trap doesn't lead to death. It leads to entrapment, but it causes immense lag due to the sheer amount of entities you're placing above and below your base!
2. Please, Please, Please, don't say "If you cant adjust your pvp style to traps, maybe you shouldn't be PvPing" I'm fine with piston, pitfall and drowning traps. But these string traps cause lag and make it hard to use enderpearls inside a base, and even outside a base because the string is lined up ALL across the sky. Many new PvP'ers will be extremely discouraged by these traps, and those people without godly computers are greatly impacted. Unless you start PvP'ing and seriously get into the PvP style of massive (Which I highly encourage you or anyone else to do, its really fun :) ) you don't and can't understand how bad these traps affect the overall play style of minecraft, especially because they basically destroy what enderpearls were meant to do, which is to get you out of somewhere/get you to somewhere, which is hard to do when string is everywhere.
This was beautiful.
 
@Cielian
String traps are more than just in the ground. String is set up in the sky, above bases too ensure people cannot pearl away. I don't know this for a fact but I am almost positive that having hundreds of string just hanging there is creating much more lag, some player's PC's or laptops cannot handle that kind of lag.
@Gabauchi
Let me tell you something honest. If a faction was going to be beaten anyways, some string traps wont save it. String traps aren't designed to kill. They're made to try to block out a Vanilla Minecraft mechanic which is enderpearls. If a "weaker" faction is going to have string traps and a much stronger faction raids them, I promise you, the defenders can do what they want but if they are truly weaker the string traps wont save them.
@Mecharic About your comment about scoping out bases : I know 2 factions that have string Lined up across the entire SKYLINE. It wont matter if I see them, they cause immense lag, and even by scoping them out there is no way I, or any other person can effectively get around the fact that they disable what enderpearls are supposed to do.

The basic point of my post is to outline some major facts
1) It isnt just string traps in the ground, they cover the top of a faction base, making it seem that there is a sky, then in reality the string just blocks the pearl.
2)String traps wont aid a weak faction against a strong one, I promise you that.
3) No amount of "Scoping" out a base will help you if it's riddled with string all over the sky.


Also, Mecharic about your 2 'reasons' about traps ;
1.This string trap doesn't lead to death. It leads to entrapment, but it causes immense lag due to the sheer amount of entities you're placing above and below your base!
2. Please, Please, Please, don't say "If you cant adjust your pvp style to traps, maybe you shouldn't be PvPing" I'm fine with piston, pitfall and drowning traps. But these string traps cause lag and make it hard to use enderpearls inside a base, and even outside a base because the string is lined up ALL across the sky. Many new PvP'ers will be extremely discouraged by these traps, and those people without godly computers are greatly impacted. Unless you start PvP'ing and seriously get into the PvP style of massive (Which I highly encourage you or anyone else to do, its really fun :) ) you don't and can't understand how bad these traps affect the overall play style of minecraft, especially because they basically destroy what enderpearls were meant to do, which is to get you out of somewhere/get you to somewhere, which is hard to do when string is everywhere.
If string traps aren't so effective then why does this thread even exist?