How To Perform Role-play Combat With Proficiencies?

Discussion in 'Help Central' started by Somerton, Apr 15, 2018 at 6:50 AM.

  1. Somerton

    Somerton Cookie-eating Ranger

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    So I would really like to know, since there is no page anywhere that really explains this as far as I can see, in combat RP, how do proficiencies come into play, along with dice rolls. How do they affect dodging or blocking attacks, and how do they affect damage and chance to hit. Is it d20+proficiency bonus?
    Somebody please explain this thoroughly so I understand entirely, it is important to know this really.

    Thankyou everybody!
     
  2. celticwitch

    celticwitch Grand Priestess of The Oldt Fayth
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  3. FireFan96

    FireFan96 A Lancey Boi Premium
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    https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Proficiency#Proficiency_Rules

    There is no roll system with Proficiency Points. The only thing Proficiency says is how familiar or knowledgeable and individual is on a certain skill.

    For example, two characters fight. One has +50 in Longswords, the other has +10. At the end of the day, the one with +10 wins? How is this possible? The one with +50 is an old man, and has lost all physical capabilities to wield their weapon. While he may know more techniques than the man with +10, his own age limitations prevents him from executing those skills to perfection.

    So in short, there is no roll system. Players are free to use the proficiency points as they see fit. I personally hate the thought of placing things up to RNG (Curse of Calemberg) and so opt to just react as the combat progresses.
     
  4. Somerton

    Somerton Cookie-eating Ranger

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    So it's an automatic win-lose, depending on whomever has the highest?
    There's no chance involved, no possibility for someone lower even to win?
     
  5. TrashCanFicus

    TrashCanFicus Gay Plant in a Trash Can

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    Just because someone has a higher proficiency, it doesn't mean they Auto win. Like it says on the proficiency rules page, they're moreso guidelines to follow whilst in battle. Some of it comes down to common sense.
     
  6. Magivore

    Magivore ๖ۣۜStrangely Proficient

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    Not exactly. Though the chances of someone winning with 10 are hampered when fighting someone with 20, it's usually important to factor in other facts. For example, if a spellsword had 10 Longsword and a couple spells but someone had 10 Longsword and 10 aberration, the person with aberration knowledge will likely win since they understand how to combat them. As another representation, say an Elf has 40 Longsword with a sinewy build, but an Ailor has 10 Longsword with a ripped build. Despite the large gap in points, the Elf is less physically capable, not to mention hitting 40 generally makes you a perfect mentor rather than a flawless fighter. If it helps, try this:
    • Roll 0 - 50, if you have no proficiency.
    • If you have a proficiency below 10, roll ? - 75.
      • Two crossbows? 2 - 75
      • Five daggers? 5 - 75
    • Your proficiency becomes base value if you have any at 10 and above, as well as the maximum value increases to 100.
      • Ten Longsword? 10 - 100
      • Twenty Greatsword? 20 - 100
      • Fifty Mastigo Whip? 50 - 100
      • At an advantage? Add 20
      • At a disadvantage? Subtract 20
    When all else fails, numbers are numbers and you'll have to follow the honour system, even if you come across someone min-maxing. Every combat proficiency has a counter with numbers meaning different things against different schools, so a 10 in Shortsword, 10 in Acrobatics, and Toned build could easily beat a 40 in Beorl Axe with a Strongman build.
     
  7. Conflee

    Conflee Not drunk I swear. Premium
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    I came up with two different systems that Im torn between, though I prefer what I can the 100+ method.

    For Both: If what you are using is countered by the environment, situation, or what the other player is using, add no bonuses unless expert or higher, then only add half (for the +5/+10 system, half of +5 would be counted as 3). Counters means, reach (so a spear at range vs a sword at range) or blockage, so a weapon that needs wise swings like a halberd or an (insert german sword thats like zweoebenembeiwlder cant spell atm) being used in a cramped alley would also lose its bonus.


    The 100+ system:
    The 100+ system is simple. /roll 100, and add your proficiency score to the result. So if you roll 37 and have 12 points in what your using, your result is 49. Whoever rolls highest by at least 8 over wins the attempt. If your final was 49 and your opponent got a 50 you would figure out a "draw" scenario. Draw scenarios are optional. If your countered then you don't add your bonus, you just roll 100, unless your an expert or higher (20+ points) then you get to still add half your points value into it.


    The 20 By 5 system:
    The 20 By 5 system is basically, /roll 20, then add 5 per Combat Level you are (starting at fighter). So fighter adds 5. Warrior adds 10. Expert 15. grandmaster 20. Whoever is higher wins, "draw" scenarios as described above optional. If your countered by the opponent's weapon, your situation, or the environment then you only add half the bonus (+5 changing to +3 instead).


    Both systems leave enough to chance to still be simi-random to let the narrative be driven by the system rather than OOC intent, which is good, but its based enough on the stats to be representative of your char's skill.

    As a PS: The reason I prefer the 100+ system is because its a nice large number that means you dont have to do some weird tiered math shit like the 20 By 5 system. (if you added your proficiency to the /roll 20 you would always win if you had more than 10 points in your weapon, which is a bit nonsense. It felt TOO based on stats and not random enough to feel system-directed.) So /roll 100 was the best kind of large, even number to work off with it.
     
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  8. Nodium

    Nodium Refugee

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    The fact that there is no dice system doesn't mean the higher score automaticaly wins, but rather that the profs actually represent a system of guidlines. Everything that occurs in rp is moreso left to rp itself: even the daftest serf can displace the most expert of blademasters with a well placed stab, or by clever use of surroundings. The profeciency gap between the two merely means that the serf shouldn't be able to outright outfinesse the blademaster in the matters of the blade.

    All in all-consider profeciencies a general guideline, and use them as a crotch if you come to a conflict that can be handled with them, but otherwise keep in mind that sane reasoning is the best method to solving clashes.
     
  9. Somerton

    Somerton Cookie-eating Ranger

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    Thanks for your answers everybody.

    It seems there is no uniform method to how this works, some say it's a matter of the player's roleplay logic and of the combat participants if the hits were taken or not, some say it is a system which does indeed determine attack damage and such.

    But how about I give a few scenarios for elaboration and explanation.

    1. Say a player with +15 shortsword, +5 acrobatics, +10 shield and muscular body type went up against a player whom is unarmed with +30 unarmed fighting, and ripped build; how would this outcome be determined? Would the unarmed player win easily because of his high unarmed stat, would it allow him able to easily dodge around his back, and dance away from player 1's every attack in melee range? Or would player 1 with the shortsword win, being able to block attacks, and have the extra range with his/her weapon, in addition to the acrobatics skill? or would the outcome be purely determined by the choice of the players?

      Probably the unarmed one would have a penalty to hit yes? Could player 2, dodge around attacks without acrobatics skill? would having the ripped body build to give him a bonus to agility in negating attacks?

    2. If player 1 were an archer firing a bow in RP combat at a player 2, would it be the archers' bow skill vs [large or small] shield and or acrobatics (for dodge?), or would there also be a roll used to determine whether or not it hit?

      Definitely, there would be a penalty for close-range shooting too, say halved proficiency, or quartered (probably quartered).
    Anyway, that's enough from me I think. Sorry to bombard people with questions, but it is important to have a solid understanding for when combat scenarios do indeed arise in RP.
     

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