- Joined
- Oct 3, 2017
- Messages
- 408
- Reaction score
- 1,207
- Points
- 0
- Location
- White House
- Website
- www.reaganfoundation.org
This topic has been brought up over and over in regards to the fading activity of the Golden Willow tavern and the reasons behind it. Read on if you are interested in my proposal of:
Also, I extracted the tavern from the server map for drawings, examples and explanations. I do not, however, have access to the old tavern & its schematic.
The Spread of Players & Hot-spots
The first issue I would like to bring up is how players generally spread in the tavern. The hot-spots that exist are way too much apart from each other, and most often they found themselves separated by "walls", in the greater sense barriers that block vision and impose an even stronger separation than what distance would bring.
Figure one shows this issue. I highlighted in green the places I deem "active" in the tavern. 90% of discussions & RP I see happen in those places. I also highlighted with yellow those parts that are almost never used and as such can be called "filler places" with little actual use. I marked the New World Lounge with orange, since it hasn't seen activity for a long while.
On the second figure, I highlighted the active businesses around the tavern. They are mostly located around one single corner, drawing active roleplay towards them each. While this wouldn't usually be a problem, this most often results in players having their character stand & have their chatter in front of the tavern instead of inside, just because the middle-ground between these active hubs is the square up front.
Comparison to the old tavern
The old tavern had a far smaller layout where most hubs were only separated by fences and not walls or shrubs. Most important, the "lounge" area was directly across, 5 blocks away from the "counter" area which made a lot of nobility & patrons sit around directly next to the counter.
An unpopular opinion
I know this may get unpopular, but generally, my first suggestion is to scrap the Willow staff and move the most (far more) active business into the main counter, the Azure Premise. It sees 5-6 times as much activity as the main counter right now, drawing all roleplayers away from the tavern proper to the very corner of the greater region.
The Unused Second Floor
The second problem I see is that the tavern is so huge, the second floor is never used. But I also have another feeling why that is. The second floor of the current Willow is desolate, detached and away from most action.
The two wings of the second floor are both detached from each other, while at the same time their entrances both draw from the opposite direction from where RP flows. Both stairs are also way too far away from the "hubs" of the tavern, suffice to say that one leads to the least used area downstairs, the other outside of the tavern proper.
Comparison to the old tavern
As opposed to this, the old tavern had a single connected upstairs area. Though it was less used than the bottom floor, it was still teeming with activity. What's more important though is that it had three stairs leading up to it (two in one version of the old interior), both drawing players from the most busy areas (one set of stairs was directly next to the entrance).
An unpopular opinion
The old tavern also had the noble lounge back. Now there's much controversy around the noble lounge, but I do think the lack thereof contributed to most of what was discussed earlier the week in noble chat: a lack of casual interaction between nobles, forcing the "4d chess" onto each without the characters being what they are: characters. For all I can remember, casual noble interactions happened in the noble lounge: chess matches, insults, etc. The lack of a designated, official lounge distanced nobles from each other and led to the current situation where they seldom meet if not for politics.
Suffice to say, the casual interactions I had between nobles so far (and kudos goes to @Film_Noir mostly) happened in the upstairs lounge of the current tavern, whenever we pretended it was a noble lounge.
The Messy Mechanics
Now onto the more mechanics-side of things, a couple things to note about the current tavern layout:
The old tavern did not have a stage, that's true, only in the very latest incarnation of it. But there, the stage was a lot smaller and any say reached most of the tavern, since it was put in the middle (sort-of, in the middle-corner). Furthermore, the old tavern had a very interesting constellation of pairing busy upstairs areas with non-busy downstairs areas. The upstairs high table (active) was directly above the empty area (inactive) below. Both the main galley and the counters had empty second floor above them (galleries). This prevented cross-chatting between floors, even though there was no mutter back then. Furthermore, the whisper lounges were just outside say & emote distance from the main tavern galley, on a third floor.
The General Design
It isn't only the lack of roleplayers that makes the current tavern feel "empty". I tried to count the active players around the tavern at any time during the day, and I sort-of drew the conclusion that the numbers didn't change much, the tavern did. The "emptyness" is reinforced by the sheer size: there will always be empty tables in the tavern.
For data's sake, counting all chairs (not corners), the current tavern's main galley would need 130 players (!) to be filled. I doubt the old tavern had anything above 40.
The other important thing is the upstairs area. They are almost always empty. Same with the New World Lounge. In a way, the players who /are/ in the tavern conglomerate on the main floor, mostly in the main galley.
Comparison to the old tavern
That is to say, the old tavern had areas wholly empty as well. For example, the back garden area almost never used, or the throne room audience area. However. One important thing is that while the new tavern separates hot-spots by drawing walls and barriers, the old tavern did not, and instead drew barriers to separate these unused areas. They were almost invisible. The bottom part of the old tavern was not visible from anywhere but within itself and the stairs leading to it also led upstairs to the second floor.
This is further reinforced by the fact that the old tavern had a full interior: you could climb to the second, third and fourth floors, even to the tower. The current one has a wholly empty third floor, and empty parts on the second floor blocked off VIA walls.
An unpopular opinion
As simple as that, I think the New World Lounge should be scrapped. The idea was good, it worked for a short while but generally, anyone going to the tavern goes there to socialise and creating yet another lounge area was a bit too much. Furthermore, the tavern should be reduced in size to 1/3 its current one. When a character enters and can't find a stool by the counter, it's a /good/ thing, not something to address or try and avoid.
The suggestions insofar
Naturally, these are all personal opinions. Discuss.
- Possible reasons for the "inefficiency" of the current tavern
- Comparison of the current tavern to the old design
- Highlight on what I find far better in the current tavern
- The possible changes that could be made to improve the tavern
Also, I extracted the tavern from the server map for drawings, examples and explanations. I do not, however, have access to the old tavern & its schematic.
The Spread of Players & Hot-spots
The first issue I would like to bring up is how players generally spread in the tavern. The hot-spots that exist are way too much apart from each other, and most often they found themselves separated by "walls", in the greater sense barriers that block vision and impose an even stronger separation than what distance would bring.
Figure one shows this issue. I highlighted in green the places I deem "active" in the tavern. 90% of discussions & RP I see happen in those places. I also highlighted with yellow those parts that are almost never used and as such can be called "filler places" with little actual use. I marked the New World Lounge with orange, since it hasn't seen activity for a long while.
On the second figure, I highlighted the active businesses around the tavern. They are mostly located around one single corner, drawing active roleplay towards them each. While this wouldn't usually be a problem, this most often results in players having their character stand & have their chatter in front of the tavern instead of inside, just because the middle-ground between these active hubs is the square up front.
Comparison to the old tavern
The old tavern had a far smaller layout where most hubs were only separated by fences and not walls or shrubs. Most important, the "lounge" area was directly across, 5 blocks away from the "counter" area which made a lot of nobility & patrons sit around directly next to the counter.
An unpopular opinion
I know this may get unpopular, but generally, my first suggestion is to scrap the Willow staff and move the most (far more) active business into the main counter, the Azure Premise. It sees 5-6 times as much activity as the main counter right now, drawing all roleplayers away from the tavern proper to the very corner of the greater region.
The Unused Second Floor
The second problem I see is that the tavern is so huge, the second floor is never used. But I also have another feeling why that is. The second floor of the current Willow is desolate, detached and away from most action.
The two wings of the second floor are both detached from each other, while at the same time their entrances both draw from the opposite direction from where RP flows. Both stairs are also way too far away from the "hubs" of the tavern, suffice to say that one leads to the least used area downstairs, the other outside of the tavern proper.
Comparison to the old tavern
As opposed to this, the old tavern had a single connected upstairs area. Though it was less used than the bottom floor, it was still teeming with activity. What's more important though is that it had three stairs leading up to it (two in one version of the old interior), both drawing players from the most busy areas (one set of stairs was directly next to the entrance).
An unpopular opinion
The old tavern also had the noble lounge back. Now there's much controversy around the noble lounge, but I do think the lack thereof contributed to most of what was discussed earlier the week in noble chat: a lack of casual interaction between nobles, forcing the "4d chess" onto each without the characters being what they are: characters. For all I can remember, casual noble interactions happened in the noble lounge: chess matches, insults, etc. The lack of a designated, official lounge distanced nobles from each other and led to the current situation where they seldom meet if not for politics.
Suffice to say, the casual interactions I had between nobles so far (and kudos goes to @Film_Noir mostly) happened in the upstairs lounge of the current tavern, whenever we pretended it was a noble lounge.
The Messy Mechanics
Now onto the more mechanics-side of things, a couple things to note about the current tavern layout:
- A good portion of the main tavern area is just right outside say distance to the tavern stage. That means, any emotes reach players that sit and watch, but the performers have to exclaim with (!) if they want to be heard. In this case, this is rather literally 2-3 blocks' issue.
- The upstairs lounges sometimes have their mutters heard below. This is because the counters are right below the southern upstairs part, and because the southern half is a few blocks shorter in height than the northern.
- Similarly, the outside little stage can say to all in the lounge, but anyone by the Azure Premise will miss anything but exclamations.
The old tavern did not have a stage, that's true, only in the very latest incarnation of it. But there, the stage was a lot smaller and any say reached most of the tavern, since it was put in the middle (sort-of, in the middle-corner). Furthermore, the old tavern had a very interesting constellation of pairing busy upstairs areas with non-busy downstairs areas. The upstairs high table (active) was directly above the empty area (inactive) below. Both the main galley and the counters had empty second floor above them (galleries). This prevented cross-chatting between floors, even though there was no mutter back then. Furthermore, the whisper lounges were just outside say & emote distance from the main tavern galley, on a third floor.
The General Design
It isn't only the lack of roleplayers that makes the current tavern feel "empty". I tried to count the active players around the tavern at any time during the day, and I sort-of drew the conclusion that the numbers didn't change much, the tavern did. The "emptyness" is reinforced by the sheer size: there will always be empty tables in the tavern.
For data's sake, counting all chairs (not corners), the current tavern's main galley would need 130 players (!) to be filled. I doubt the old tavern had anything above 40.
The other important thing is the upstairs area. They are almost always empty. Same with the New World Lounge. In a way, the players who /are/ in the tavern conglomerate on the main floor, mostly in the main galley.
Comparison to the old tavern
That is to say, the old tavern had areas wholly empty as well. For example, the back garden area almost never used, or the throne room audience area. However. One important thing is that while the new tavern separates hot-spots by drawing walls and barriers, the old tavern did not, and instead drew barriers to separate these unused areas. They were almost invisible. The bottom part of the old tavern was not visible from anywhere but within itself and the stairs leading to it also led upstairs to the second floor.
This is further reinforced by the fact that the old tavern had a full interior: you could climb to the second, third and fourth floors, even to the tower. The current one has a wholly empty third floor, and empty parts on the second floor blocked off VIA walls.
An unpopular opinion
As simple as that, I think the New World Lounge should be scrapped. The idea was good, it worked for a short while but generally, anyone going to the tavern goes there to socialise and creating yet another lounge area was a bit too much. Furthermore, the tavern should be reduced in size to 1/3 its current one. When a character enters and can't find a stool by the counter, it's a /good/ thing, not something to address or try and avoid.
The suggestions insofar
- Reduce the tavern in size to 1/3 of what it is right now.
- Allow the most active rentals of the "external" booths to move indoors and handle the main counter, or serve around the main counter.
- Arrange the tavern's layout to be in symbiosis with the surrounding businesses.
- Create an upstairs area with "active zones" that parallel the inactive ones downstairs.
- Bring back the whisper lounges & the noble lounge.
- Create a layout with chat distances in mind. Test stages & podiums before finalising them.
- Separate active hot-spots with railings instead of walls or shrubbery. Keep them relatively on the same level in height. Separate down the inactive / only event used areas with walls & shrubbery.
- Create a seamless upstairs area that has multiple stairs leading up to it and is circular / can be traversed from one stair to another.
- Make a tavern with full interiors that allow one to walk & visit any window or tower they see from the outside.
Naturally, these are all personal opinions. Discuss.
