Rejected Gamestaff Faction

Discussion in 'Factions' started by Aeyris, Oct 23, 2020.

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  1. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    Okay,

    We used to have factions that would hoover up new players and show them the ropes, but we don't anymore. Game staff should be able to take over this role. Most new players are only greeted upon arrival, usually they get confused as to what we are about and depart soon after. I would reckon that most of us stuck around because someone took the time to help us get settled in the faction world. A lot of us try to help but it isn't enough.

    This could help new player conversion rates significantly without any huge changes. If the staff started doing it in their own factions or even a dedicated staff-run faction it would help make more productive members of the community. In the long-term, we would see more people stay around and create new cities and factions. I think the staff needs this because the factions world is so stagnant, few factions players want to devote energy to someone who is more than likely going to go inactive. This is not a permanent thing. We would only it while the community is weak. More players staying around will make the community stronger and thus there would be more factions willing to recruit more players.

    We actually used to do this when were really small. We just need the "government" to step in and help revive the community by hand until we are strong enough to do it without them.

    Something to look into as an intentional part of game staff responsibilities :)
     
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  2. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    Again the benefits are pretty clear, but I did not go over them that well.

    The problem is not proving it's valuable its getting the staff to actually commit to something that can be quite laborious in long-term.

    But there would be plenty of regular players to help here, we really just need the staff to set the culture.
     
  3. TakeDown__

    TakeDown__ Faction hopper since '15 Staff Member Game2

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    While I think it's a good idea, it would put a lot of work on game staff, making us have less time to spend on other things. I also have to mention that not everyone is fit for leading a faction, because at the end of the day, that's what you're doing with this idea. I agree that most of us were probably here because we got helped by people, perhaps we should find a way to stimulate that more. Perhaps a competition who can invite and keep the most new players. I also think a lot of factions are currently in the build process in Essa.
     
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  4. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    Agree. There are enough faction leaders on staff to get it done, however. It doesn't need to be one faction either: Maybe we need to add a helper rank. People whose explicit job is to help new players. This seems like it would solve most of the problems with my initial idea. Less strain on staff, no conflicts of interest, and much more.

    I am sure people would love to help. In the past massive has been way too hesitant to trust its community with responsibility. I think to its own detriment now that we are so small.

    The application/training process would be similar to game staff, much shorter since these people have no extra abilities and less responsibility. It's really just a title but I think the outcome could be very good.
     
    #4 Aeyris, Oct 28, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  5. Zilla

    Zilla Rolling stone

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    You've just inspired me to create a faction for that very purpose :)
     
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  6. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    Give this man helper rank pls
     
  7. XxXYaJrAbXxX

    XxXYaJrAbXxX [Ryson Hanstil] Leader of Jaholdril Staff Member Tech2

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    The issue with this is that if all of game staff is in 1 faction, lets say a couple went and raided a faction with their allies, one of the allies got accused of hacking and game staff are supposed to investigate. None of the game staff will be able to respond to that as someone can then accuse staff of being biased.

    A lot of the new people that join the server get welcomed to the server by staff. Fluorspar does this all the time and it is definitely noticed by other members of staff. They are always welcome to ask for help in either general chat or help chat however there is also some players who like to troll these people I have noticed a few times.

    New player - "How do I create a faction?"
    Community member - "Press alt + f4"

    It is not just down to game staff to help and welcome new players, it is everyone's responsibility. It is also noticed that some of the player base do actually try to help through all the troll messages and again, are noticed by staff.
     
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  8. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    I rarely have seen players troll. That type of behavior is not the rule, it's the exception. This type of staff exceptionalism has been so detrimental for years. Your community does not need to be babied. On the whole, we do a fantastic job of trying to keep this server alive. Especially since it can be so difficult to collaborate with the staff on this server.

    Most trolling is a neutral experience for new players. It's a pretty normal behavior in absence of our other problems. You could even argue that it's fun bc it can start banter, and people almost always get the help they need here. I don't see how you avoid this either. The problem with keeping new players is not them experiencing trolling lmao.

    The bigger problem is:
    New player - "How do I create a faction?"
    Community member - "You need 90r"
    ~new player has left the chat

    btw saying welcome hardly translates to people staying around.

    I agree mostly with ur first critique -- I already addressed most of that point which is why I recommended an alternative
     
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    #8 Aeyris, Nov 2, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  9. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    The structure of this server is so unfriendly to new players that most people have logged out before I have time to /msg them

    It cannot be true that most of these people are bots. And if it is true why is the vast majority of our inbound only bots?

    I am sorry but I am a bit dumbfounded that you decided to pick an argument that makes your community be the problem. It's kinda outrageous to me.

    Note: that it is not the communities responsibility to welcome players, we owe you nothing.
     
    #9 Aeyris, Nov 2, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
  10. XxXYaJrAbXxX

    XxXYaJrAbXxX [Ryson Hanstil] Leader of Jaholdril Staff Member Tech2

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    I'm sorry, but this is exactly what is wrong with the mindset of some of the players on this server. This server is just as much your community as it is staff's and it is everyone's responsibility to welcome new players. Any other server I might join would instantly welcome me whether they are a player, staff member or whatever so why do some of our player base feel this way?

    If I was to move house into a new area, I wouldn't get a letter from the council/the mayor of the local town welcoming me to the neighborhood. Usually your new neighbors might knock on your door and welcome you to the area and start getting to know you. What you have said there is just plain ignorant.

    On top of this, all of the staff members here are volunteers and are not paid. We volunteer to make the experience for the community better for everyone. In tech, we do this by adding plugins and spend hours, days, weeks, months of our time to make your experience better. We don't think you owe us anything, but why can't you simply just be friendly and help other players where you can which is common human decency.

    I am not trying to state either that the entire community is bad because of the odd troll. I am saying troll messages are not being helpful in retaining new players and some people go on to say that the community is therefore toxic if they did not expect something that was said that we call banter. You kind of have to gauge whether they would appreciate it as banter or them thinking the comment was toxic. This is called social consciousness or social awareness.
     
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    #10 XxXYaJrAbXxX, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  11. MrScafuto

    MrScafuto MassiveCraft's token ethnic

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    It kinda feels like you hyper focused on that one sentence Aeyris said about the mentality (which is wrong, agree with you there) and ignored his rebuttal to your original post.
    The point here is that while trolling (which very rarely becomes toxicity, saying 'alt + f4' or '123 for free diamonds', etc isn't being toxic) is an issue, it's a very minor issue in comparison to the issues Aeyris is trying to point that out, and probably said that mentality statement out of frustration that when he's trying to highlight:
    And you responded with "well, trollings a bigger issue". Maybe if both staff and the community become less confrontational we can work together towards finding a better solution.

    EDIT:
    This also^
     
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  12. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    Again 99.99% of players are decent and want this server to succeed. All of us do. Players also care about this server and volunteer to spend a lot of their time here. I probably have spent 3000-4000 hours on just the server. I have helped hundreds (thousands??) of people start on this server, dozens of whom are still here or I have keep in touch with regularly. I am not uncommon with this. XxXYaJrAbXxX you are clearly out of touch with the survival world. But don't forget that it's the players that make this place special, so much so that many players become staff.

    So much of the community is frustrated because we feel taken for granted despite the best intentions and work of the staff. The staff has done great work over the years. Everyone knows there is something special here and but players understandably feel like it's being squandered. Most of the legacy community has given up after years of beating against the door. This forum is full of hundreds of threads of players who felt exactly the same way I do -- most are now indifferent about this server's future.

    I still have hope but I lose it every time I read some of the replies to this thread.

    I don't really want to engage here because we aren't even having a real conversation yet
     
    #12 Aeyris, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  13. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    This constructive conversation that was progressing very well was hijacked by a staff member who did not read the entire thread and attributed much of the sorrow that the factions community is going through to trolling.

    Now the idea that I originally suggest will surely not get any merit -- this is the great danger.
     
    #13 Aeyris, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  14. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    This is literally the most important post on this thread but no one cares. There is obviously something worth looking into here, but the little staff reaction I have seen have been them supporting each other against critics via upvotes lol

    except @TakeDown__ of course

    EDIT:

    Everyone should read this thread from top to bottom again. It's clear some context was missed and things went sideways. And I feel like I have done a good job responding to every reply entirely and fairly. But I don't feel reciprocated lol -- I am sorry if my bluntness offends anyone, I am tired of being diplomatic.
     
    #14 Aeyris, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  15. Zilla

    Zilla Rolling stone

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    If I don't see the changes I want to see I ask myself if I myself can do anything about it before I ask others. I think the staff are doing a great job when it comes to the new players scene in many respects.

    I think the attention gap occurs between the time when a player starts looking for a faction until the moment they join a faction and are mixing with other players or alternatively get taken in by some helpful RPers and start mixing in with players in Regalia.

    I reckon in many cases new players never get to the other side of this gap. I'm sure this is an area that has been talked about many times before elsewhere but I am new to being active on the Forums here so sorry if this is old news.

    Any idea that involves grouping new players together or connecting them with other players quickly is something worth considering.
    This is why in the past I have been interested in mechanics that encourage exploration and travel in the Factions world, as it is the chance encounters and meetings that will take a new player away from falling into the unfortunate "I am now just roaming alone on a Minecraft server" predicament if they don't cross the gap.

    (I liked that competition idea that @TakeDown__ had too:)

    (Edit: I just realized this thread is about that original idea haha, sorry for spinning out into irrelevancy. Let me know if you guys find or start any thread focused on the New Player scene and ideas because it is one of my favourite areas to think about.)
     
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    #15 Zilla, Nov 4, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2020
  16. XxXYaJrAbXxX

    XxXYaJrAbXxX [Ryson Hanstil] Leader of Jaholdril Staff Member Tech2

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    I have read the entire forum thread and I am pretty sure I understand it.

    In summary, you want staff members to recruit many of these new players and use the faction to show the ropes of the server, some of them will do this already. The question is, why do you think it should be a responsibility for game? Why make it just a game thing when it shouldn't just be game you are pleading to, but the entire server/community. This is the main problem I have with this post.

    Game will help when a player makes a ticket, or knows the answer to a question in help chat. This is literally their job. On top of that, they design mechanics and projects for the community which takes many hours of work. They also moderate the server from hackers which isn't just be a simple case of "Oh, he is hacking. I am just going to ban him". This task takes a lot of time too. On top of that, they have to design events for the community. Can you see the point I am trying to get at here? If you are finding that no faction is helping new players, make your own faction and do it yourself, build a name for yourself and a reputation. Make others want to do the same as what you are doing. It can't just be a simple case of "This is a job for game to do" when they have hours of other things to do, as well as have a personal life. Again, we are volunteers.

    When I have asked other members of staff, it is often noticed that this is becoming more and more common. I have noticed it multiple times within days/weeks. I am usually on the server in the evenings as it is starting to get busy from the USA waking up. I am usually AFK coding or running around pacing places looking for inspiration for coding. If I am not doing that, I am in factions communicating with fellow faction members.

    When it comes to retaining new people, there are 3 aspects I personally look at:

    Simplicity - How easy is this servers commands and mechanics system?
    Friendliness - Do I feel welcome here? Do players welcome me to the server, do I feel like I can ask anyone anything about this server?
    Uniqueness - What makes this server different to any other Faction/Towny RPG server?

    You touch on the first point of simplicity, teaching players the ropes of the server. I do not disagree with your post as a general idea but why is it staff you are just trying to appeal/tailor this to? There are many factors that come into account why new players are not staying long on the server. For me being in tech, I like to think uniqueness is a make or break reason why players join/leave the server hence we are aiming to get more content out.

    Both of these statements here I would like to think are false. I spend most of my time in survival either building or playing with other members of my faction, who a majority of them are PvPers. On top of that, I read a lot of the discussions that happen within the factions discord including the idea voting. I also attend the weekly game meeting for this reason (even though I am tech) to also try and find new ways to get new players to stay. Game will also discuss what other servers are doing well and what we could do to potentially improve and implement in our own way.

    If you are concerned if your idea will or will not get any credit, why not prove everyone wrong and start making the change yourself by doing the idea, recruiting a large faction to teach new players the ropes. This will encourage other factions to do the same. I think that with this post, you are trying to sell the idea to the wrong people.
     
    #16 XxXYaJrAbXxX, Nov 4, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2020
  17. BlueChaos

    BlueChaos The Legend Of BlueChaos :) Staff Member Game3
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    Hes in more touch into the survival world than you are. Also, thank you for the quote.
     
  18. MyCatBubbles

    MyCatBubbles Watcher of the Watchmen, Executor of Regalians

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. BlueChaos

    BlueChaos The Legend Of BlueChaos :) Staff Member Game3
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    But with everything on MassiveCraft, I will bring this idea forward to the game meeting on Saturday which will have all departments inside of it. Is there anything else you want to add to the idea in the process before the meeting starts on Saturday.
     
  20. BlueChaos

    BlueChaos The Legend Of BlueChaos :) Staff Member Game3
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    Individual game staff members can do this, but we are more concentrated on releasing new content into the server like Massive Races, and other projects in the works for the future.
     
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