By Sephite on Mar 28, 2019 at 1:04 AM
  1. Sephite

    Sephite Lillith ✤ TheFairy
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

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    GrumpyCamTM



    After listening to suggestions from our playerbase, @Winterless and @Ieso worked in the last few weeks on identifying and testing various PvP mechanics in order to analyse imbalances. With strong contributions from @Sevak, @onearmsquid, @65jes89, @TheComputerGeek2 and @CS_Birb we are finally able to publish the results of this analysis:

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    Yes! Invisibility potions! Starting with the next server restart after this post, players will be able to brew and use invisibility potions in-game for the next two weeks. During this two week trial, the Game Department will observe and gather feedback from the community to decide if we are going to fully implement invisibility potions going forward, and, if so, in which form. The potion is currently not combat tagged and cannot be crafted in a workbench. During this trial, it can be brewed (again, not crafted--brewed!) by adding a fermented spider eye to a Nightvision potion. Please note that armour and weapons will still be visible while under the effect of the invisibility potion, and if you are hit by arrows, those will be visible as well.

    Our PvPers will also be busy testing this new feature themselves, so please address all complaints, observations, or suggestions in regard to the new potions to Sephite via Forum Conversations, or on discord at Sephite#0367.

    Please also use this poll to share your opinion and suggestions with us! [click here]

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    Taming: Taming was identified as “broken” as wolves can cause extremely high level of damage (due to unarmed traits!), are able to cause bleed, heal from poison potions, and can heal on attack.

    Suggestion: The suggested changes were to either lower the damage the wolves are dealing, to reduce their health or to remove their fire resistance and poison healing.

    Implemented: We decided for now to lower the damage reduction of Thickfur to 0.8x Damage inflicted rather than the previous 0.5x. We are looking into the impact of this change before discussing any further changes, if necessary. This means that Wolves will now take 60% more damage than before (where Thickfur took effect).

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    Regular Diamond Weapons: Some players reported that regular diamond weapons seemed to do more damage than god weapons (especially swords). This could not be reproduced and was therefore dropped from the investigation. Should any other factors come to light, this shall be re-reviewed as necessary

    Diamond Pickaxes: It appeared to some players that Diamond pickaxes--specifically the “master pickaxe” variant--did far higher damage than should be expected, often able to outdamage god swords and axes. This could not be proven and was therefore dropped from the investigation. Players insisting they are still experiencing OP pickaxes should look into their traits and resistances.

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    Elytra/Debuffs: Even though Elytras have already been combat tagged to prevent sudden escape by air, players have still found ways to escape fights by using the elytra. Similarly, players also use them to support their grounded allies, often making a huge difference in fights.

    Suggestion: It was suggested to take away fallimmune, so fighters relying on Elytras would die from the fall if shot down. However, Fallimmune is already a combat tagged trait. Another suggestion was to make the use of enderpearls impossible while wearing an Elytra. This is still being looked into. The final suggestion was to implement a whole new Elytra trait or to be able to debuff combat tag the elytra flyers.

    Not implemented: We are not able to implement debuff combat tagging without creating the issue of debuffed allies causing the elytra-wearer to be combat-tagged as well, potentially creating a glitch which would cause ally versus ally combat. Unfortunately, there is currently no capacity in the Tech department to create a plugin to potentially implement some of these changes and resolve the resulting issues, but pending tech availability, this will be something considered again in the future.

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    UPCOMING:
    Traits, saturation, buffs and debuffs are currently being discussed and tested.
     
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Comments

Discussion in 'Server News and Announcements' started by Sephite, Mar 28, 2019.

    1. FireFan96
      FireFan96
      feelsgoodman.png
    2. Sir_Daragon
      Sir_Daragon
      If invisibility Potions are to be disabled after the 2 weeks, will pre crafted potions still work?
    3. Sephite
      Sephite
      That will depend on the decision. We are able to turn off the effect entirely, if I understood tech correctly.
    4. grizenator
      grizenator
      Nice! Hopefully some trait updates next time aswell
    5. ZiHAMMER
      ZiHAMMER
      Don't trust Sephito.
    6. CS_Birb
      CS_Birb
      The trial lasts 2 weeks - this means that at the end of the two weeks, we'll assess how things went.
      Should the adoption be positive, they will likely be kept enabled.

      @Sephite is correct; should they be disabled any pre-made potions will cease to function.
    7. Pilotos
    8. iBeSlurping
      iBeSlurping
      really like the idea of bringing the invis pots back, specific people wouldn't be targeted every time now, make kiting more interesting as well, thank you
    9. feiooos
      feiooos
      Doesn't that sound great?
      Variety and balancing for those who can't fight the same way most PvPers can. I don't see this as an issue altho I might not know other problems that come with using Elytras either.
    10. BlueChaos
      BlueChaos
      Can you add invisibility potions to the kitpvp map as part of one of the load outs.
    11. 65jes89
      65jes89
      why
    12. onearmsquid
      onearmsquid
      Will be added in the near future inside the bard kot
    13. morrc5
      morrc5
      it was plain diamond sword or axe with a strength 2 pot, not just the plain sword or axe by itself that was doing dumb damage.
    14. poilet66
      poilet66
      How will invis pots be obtained? I’m gonna assume crafting but idk I feel like they should be sliiightly valuable. I guess if the ingredients cost like 10-20r it’s basically the same thing. Just curious :)
    15. MokeDuck
      MokeDuck
      its kinda hard. U gotta brew them manually, and golden carrots alongside fermented spider eyes aren't the easiest things to get. Not as hard as strength, but still more than health II
    16. FireFan96
      FireFan96
      I just used the crafting bench to make nightvision, then threw it into a stand with fermented eyes afterwards. I should do it the long way for the xp, but cba
    17. Winterless
      Winterless
      We tested both and it was fine

      Keep in mind the damage difference between a reg sword and a god sword is about 4.25, and the fact that strength is additive and not multiplicative like it was and you see why

      Still only did about 8% a hit tho
    18. grizenator
      grizenator
      With or without resistance traits?
    19. Sephite
      Sephite
      Update: Added Poll in regards to invisibility potions! [Click here]
    20. Winterless
      Winterless
      With
    21. feiooos
      feiooos
      Did using capped /swords change anything vs without capped /swords? Or rather, did you try with and without McMMO?
    22. Winterless
      Winterless
      Sword mcmmo has no effect on dmg
    23. feiooos
      feiooos
      Serrated Strikes does
    24. Winterless
      Winterless
      Nope

      That's only AoE, and it only does 50% of the original
    25. feiooos
      feiooos
      Don't know how accurate this is, considering Massive might have a different McMMO config but might be worth a look https://github.com/mcMMO-Dev/mcMMO/wiki/Swords#serrated-strikes
    26. Winterless
      Winterless
      It definitely is not 125%, and if it was it certainly isn't now since the serrated and skullsplit values were changed
    27. Winterless
      Winterless
      Plus, serrated is an active ability
      Not passive
    28. feiooos
      feiooos
      It definitely was at some point. I still remember it from 2016-2017, at least. I don't know now though.
      Either way doesn't seem relevant to this issue but you never know. Bugs are everywhere.

      Doesn't matter, the problem can still exist regardless of how it activates.
    29. Huinkoch
      Huinkoch

      Here's my alt with low swords. (218)
      upload_2019-3-29_4-32-28.png
      Here's my main with high swords.
      upload_2019-3-29_4-30-50.png
      As you can see plainly, there's no difference in serrated strikes values between the two due to level. It is also 50%. Appreciate the linked default configs, but massive doesn't seem to use defaults.

      Checked the damage myself:
      An average dia sword came out to 3 damage per hit on a player without resist, and the attacker has no strength.
      An average dia sword came out to 9 damage per hit on a player without resist, and the attacker has strength.
      An average dia sword came out to 2 damage per hit on a player with resist, and the attacker has no strength.
      An average dia sword came out to 8 damage per hit on a player with resist, and the attacker has strength.

      An average sharp 5 dia sword comes out to 6 damage per hit on a player without resist, and the attacker has no strength.
      An average sharp 5 dia sword comes out to 12 damage per hit on a player without resist, and the attacker has strength.
      An average sharp 5 dia sword comes out to 5 damage per hit on a player with resist and the attacker has no strength.
      An average sharp 5 dia sword comes out to 10 damage per hit on a player with resist and the attacker has strength.

      It's demonstrable that strength 2 is a flat +6 now rather than a %, which is where I think people are getting confused. This was a change in 1.9. This was tested above with the swords, and with fists, which do at baseline 1 damage. With strength 2 they deal 7 damage, not accounting for unarmedvuln or unarmedresist.

      Against the same gal, wearing prot 4 armor and using swordresist, and the attacker has strength:
      The unsharpened dia sword did anywhere from 8-10% (1-2 damage) depending on exact decimal of HP the target was at.
      The sharp 5 dia sword did anywhere from 12-15% (2-3 damage) depending on exact decimal of HP.
      To put it shortly, what's happening is A: baseline damage is not that much different due to a change also in 1.9
      upload_2019-3-29_4-51-46.png
      This seems to hold true in massivecraft.
      Sharp 1 adds 1 damage, and the remaining 4 sharpness levels add the additional 2 damage, for a total of 3 extra damage from sharpness V. This matches up with the numbers above.

      And B: Older players seem to be confused by how strength works. It is no longer a multiplicative bonus.
      upload_2019-3-29_4-54-35.png
      It is +3 per tier. II being +6. It does not care about what weapon you use. This also makes fists surprisingly strong when you consider Berserk is +50% damage (+4 when vuln is considered! As strong as a sharp 5 with no resist! 1+6(str) +1 (vuln) +50%(4, berserk) at the baseline!)

      And C:
      Massivecombat has it's own armor math, meaning the armor weakening changes made in the same patch, 1.9, made to still make stronger weapons rewarding to use, is moot, as that doesn't seem to be considered.
      upload_2019-3-29_4-55-55.png

      This also kinda explains why a pickaxe might be so strong.
      A pickaxe's base damage against another player is around 2 damage. 5 damage with sharp 5. So 8 and 11 with strength 2. Stack that with the fact you can't put up a resist trait for it. Pretty much any weapon due to base minecraft changes has potential to be very high damage. Even a shovel.

      upload_2019-3-29_5-4-19.png
      This shovel did 10 damage with str2.

      tl;dr
      blame 1.9 for ruining your PVP because mojang made a bunch of crappy changes that alter combat at deeper levels than just removing fast clicking, because they can't imagine anyone not liking their poorly designed combat system.
      Str II being only +6 adds a lot more damage at the low end, and a lot less at the high end.
      sharpness is only +3, not +6.25.
      Resists are %s, meaning that higher end damage is going to be subtracted a lot more than the lower damage, so it seems like the low end weapons are just doing that much more. It's just all the high end shit got nerfed into oblivion.
    30. feiooos
      feiooos
      Dang really well put. GG.
    31. onearmsquid
      onearmsquid
      Bonnie you still amaze me! Good work!
    32. Winterless
      Winterless
      Shlick
    33. Mojaven
      Mojaven
      Nice work @Huinkoch
    34. BlueChaos
      BlueChaos
      Only type of pvp i do is from the kitpvp maps, when im fighting dragonn_ or being trained by others. Would be nice to have all potions to test out new meta's etc. So in short, Training purposes.

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