Under Review Factions Expansion: Empires And Ranks

Discussion in 'Feature & Idea Discussion - Archive' started by Mecharic, May 5, 2016.

  1. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    So, it's been a long time since anyone made a suggestion of this nature, so I want to propose it again. The proposal has two parts to it, each of them important but independent (I just didn't think there should be two threads about this lol).

    Empires
    Empires is pretty simple in theory, probably a lot harder in code. It consists of the following:
    • Imperial Factions: Factions that are upgraded so that they can have true Subfactions. The price to this would be 2,000 regals for the upgrade and an increase in faction tax from .1r per chunk to .2r per chunk, doubling it.
    • True Subfactions: Instead of subfactions being entirely up to the subfaction, this plugin would create true subfactions. They would be unable to decide their own faction relations, instead having the same allies, truced, and enemied factions as their Imperial faction. These factions would have a lower tax rate than normal factions, preferably half of what independent factions would pay.
    • Imperial Chat: This chat would be access via /c join I or i: and would allow subfactions and their Imperial faction to communicate outside of allied chats.
    • Imperial Tax: Subfactions would pay a tax out of their bank daily to the Imperial faction, no more than 20 regals.
    • Imperial Bank: A bank into which all taxes taken by the Imperial faction from Subfactions is sent. Any shortfalls in faction tax by the Imperial faction would be paid out of this bank. A permission would be added to allow the Imperial faction to withdraw the Imperial Bank (probably called "ImpBank").
    This is mostly because I've always thought that there should be more groups of factions that are a coherent group rather than the loose collections that can exist now. With such a change as this, large scale wars would once again be possible, as would building massive empires and nations that, you know, actually work. Currently its just sorta... meh. Nonexistent. This is mostly just to add depth to factions overall and to give "Empires" an actual status in the game.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    More Ranks:
    This should be pretty easy to code, but naturally that means it'll be a pain to do so. The idea is to add more ranks to the faction plugin in order to allow more customized perms for players to have. This would result in the following ranks for all factions:
    1. Leader - The faction owner.
    2. Deputy - The faction owners most trusted player, probably having perms equal to the leader.
    3. Sheriff - A higher rank of officer that can handle all sorts of things.
    4. Officer - Lower rank of officer that would likely be given recruitment jobs or similar.
    5. Member - Used for people who are trusted, but not management trusted.
    6. Recruit - Generally used for new players or people that aren't trusted.
    This would enable faction leaders to have more complex ranks, adding more layers of security into a faction. Currently, with only Leader, Officer, Member, Recruit factions are forced to decide if they want to trust only their leader to claim, or trust all officers to claim equally, or to give recruits 'member' level perms to use member rank as a lower officer rank. It's really not ideal and if this can be changed easily I'd suggest - am suggesting - that it be changed.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am making this suggestion now on account of Faction Taxes. I've heard it said before by staff that Factions is supposed to be an Anti-Grief plugin, and that as such it would/should not have anything fancy or special - however, Faction Tax changes that. If it was solely an anti-grief plugin players really shouldn't need to pay right? Since they do, there should be more customization of the plugin to help balance out/give purpose to the Tax. Or at least I feel that that.

    I am in no way complaining about Faction Tax. I am merely suggesting that there be changes so that Faction Tax makes more sense, as an anti-grief plugin shouldn't be Pay-to-Protect.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
    • Like Like x 5
    #1 Mecharic, May 5, 2016
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  2. Alj23

    Alj23 Regalian Citizen

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    235
    • I don't think the "imperial factions" should have an increased tax rate. It wouldn't promote creating empires if you had to spend 2,000 regals, and also have a double tax rate.
    • I like that "sub-factions" get a decreased tax rate. It encourages joining an empire. I could see people creating a fake imperial faction using an alt faction, and then putting their main faction in that empire, effectively cutting their tax rate in half. But that's a bridge to cross when we get there.
    • The imperial faction should be able to tax its sub-factions. Similar to the way taxes are done now, maybe on a larger scale. (20-50 regal limit. )
    • There should be an imperial bank that is created when the imperial faction is created. Taxes from the sub-factions should go there. Add a new permission to the imperial faction that becomes active when the faction is upgraded that allows withdrawal from the imperial bank by rank.
    • Sheriff rank seems a bit unneeded. Just my opinion though.
     
  3. 65jes89

    65jes89 Leader of SunKiss
    1. -={The Great Kingdom of SunKiss}=-

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    276
    In all honesty I was going to bring this up again soon. I'll write a longer response tomorrow :)
     
  4. Sir_Daragon

    Sir_Daragon Your Local Supremium

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    22
    This isnt bad. Just imagine darkrooms. The main faction would pay the big taxes thing amd the darkroom would only pay like half. That way with tax increased it would promote active player that would darkroom to pay taxes, and if the faction cant stay as empire, they should have the choice to go back as regular faction.
     
  5. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    1) We don't want any jo-shmo to be startin' an empire now. Only powerful, wealthy, or diligent factions should be able to start an empire. On top of this, roleplay wise, Empires have a heaping pile of bureaucracy and management, and that's expensive. Empires should be something to aim for, and something that takes effort to maintain over time.
    2) I'd assume doing so would be against the rules, with a permban as the result.
    3) I agree - but only if they pay the double-tax. This way they'd have an incentive to add more factions to their Empire in order to help support their increased tax.
    4) Good idea, I'll toss that on :)
    5) The way I view it is that Officer is "Recruitment" while Sheriff is "Government". The difference is that one just adds to the problems of the other :P
     
  6. Sir_Daragon

    Sir_Daragon Your Local Supremium

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    22
    Now i can see factions making dummy faction to start empires, while the big faction becomes subfaction. So maybe the subfactions cannot be bigger than the main one. Not in claim but player wise. That way if the main one fails, then they could pass the leadership to another faction.

    But the main idea of Empires being an actual thing is a good idea.
     
  7. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Perhaps Empires would need to be staff approved? In order to avoid this fraud. Just to verify that the head faction is indeed a real faction.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    #7 Zacatero, May 5, 2016
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  8. Neckerei

    Neckerei Broken Sword, Broken Spirit.

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    49
    me likey me wanty yasssss
     
    • Immersive Immersive x 1
  9. Aespair

    Aespair valentinian shill

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    That's a terrible idea because the imperial faction would have to pay the initial fee of 2000r, so automatically transferring leadership to the faction with the most players would be a huge pain to the original leader.
     
  10. Aespair

    Aespair valentinian shill

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    Also my two cents are incoming when I get to pc.
     
  11. HeartAched

    HeartAched ~Valerus King~

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Messages:
    831
    Likes Received:
    68
    Dear lord, papabear, pls no.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  12. 65jes89

    65jes89 Leader of SunKiss
    1. -={The Great Kingdom of SunKiss}=-

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,468
    Likes Received:
    276
    Ok. So I'm going to throw (my possibly very long) two cents in.

    Empires is probably the most requested plugin in the history of massive. This one thread alone (and there have been other threads about adding empires) received 112 positive ratings. To my knowledge, that's the highest rating count for any feature suggestion thread. It was also rumored for a while that empires would actually be added in factions 2.0 (although they obviously were not).

    I would personally really like to see empires added, because it would most certainly bring back the politics between factions that used to occur on Massive. It would be possible for mercs, smaller pvp factions, and such, to actually be able to do something without just allying one of the pvp factions and essentially just being the same faction as them, politics wise. Additionally, it would bring some meaning back into PvP. I mean, right now, when you're raided you generally either hide inside/in Regalia, or you ally a PvP faction to go defend for you. Often, a popular surrnender term used to be to join the raiding faction's empire. You don't see that too much anymore, and when you do, it generally means nothing. You put something in your /f desc, and that's the end of it. If you look at the current major empires, the Dominion and Qaliphate, they're probably some of the larger empires in Massive's history. Despite this, however, they're also some of the weakest ones, in terms of unity. That's because there's pretty much no built-in support for empires and sub-factions. With a built-in support system, it would be possible to have great empires again.

    Furthermore, this could potentially help some with roleplay/pvp unity. As part of an empire, roleplayers could actually have some chance of defending themselves, or at least do some occasional fighting with pvpers in their empire if they wanted to.

    I would really, really like to see something like this added. I don't really care how it's done, just that it's done.

    As for the ranks, I also like those, but empires should definitely take priority. Still though, I like the idea.

    I'd be quite interested about what @Madus and @ulumulu1510 think about this.

    Guess this actually wasn't that long, but I'll probably write some more stuff later :P
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Sir_Daragon

    Sir_Daragon Your Local Supremium

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    22
    Great 2cent.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Aespair

    Aespair valentinian shill

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    It is I, the Great Aes of Mongaboo. I personally believe that this is a great idea to those of us who own giant factions and have been looking to expand our reach into the hearts and minds of others. It would make things really awesome and easy to have a large, nicely organized Empire, since you could have different sub-factions with histories and cultures of their own, while your faction retains the leadership and culture of its own. My faction, Hyrune, has been looking to expand its borders beyond in-faction things, and get our name out there more like Ol' Riverens did. However, due to the sheer amount of work and trial/error that needs to be put into it, me and @Mecharic have been putting it off.

    The problem with Empires right now is that sub-factions have no drive or commitment to stay in an Empire. @Genecide65 was in my Empire at one point, but left a few days later because I wasn't constantly monitoring him. With the current unofficial way that Empires work, its really hard to find out which of the factions in your ally chat are in your Empire and which ones you actually promised you would defend if they were raided. Another thing is, ally chat gets really spammy at times, so it's not uncommon for me to leave it while I'm doing something and completely miss my sub-faction's request for aid. With Imperial chat, there's close to no chance for it to get as spammy as Ally chat.

    The only problem I see with this whole thing is the possibility of a large faction splitting into a union of sub-factions under a tiny Imperial faction that has no land claimed. This way, they would be susceptible to the half-tax that comes with being a sub-faction and the Imperial faction wouldn't have to pay a dime. I think to avoid this, we should remove the idea of doubled Imperial tax all together, and instead make it a punishable offense to abuse the Empire plugin. Not too far back, it was illegal to abuse the faction plugin, and it was fairly easy to punish those who made the offenses. Rules go further than people think, especially for people who actually have the brains to create a giant faction in the first place or to get a group of 30 or so people to band behind them.

    Furthermore, it gives factions more of a drive to succeed and become more profitable than to just sit around with their thumb up their rear after they get 60 or so members. It has to be said that the reason I've been so inactive the past few weeks isn't totally due to finals and lack of premium, though those are large factors. I've sort of lost my drive on Massive, and I've been continually looking for something to do. The thing that I'm good at is managing a faction, but that gets dull after awhile. I can't PvP because I get rekt by @Sevak, I try to RP but I just end up making cringey characters (I try nevertheless). Managing a faction is what I do, and it's what I've done since I joined this server.

    With an Empire, I could actually see myself getting out there and doing more. I could make more friends on the server through conquering smaller factions and helping them to be greater through this plugin, since right now people are only ever discouraged by becoming part of an Empire. It makes them feel inferior, and an enormous sense of failure, since the only thing they usually get out of it is paying a large monthly tax to the mother-faction. With the Empire plugin, they would get half-tax for their faction, a LOT of people would leave them alone, they'd get a ton of friends, free food, the mother-faction could give them things to do, etc.

    With my Empire rant over, let's get to this rank business.

    I agree that there needs to be more ranks, however everyone seems to be disagreeing on the amount that is needed. I say that the solution to this could just be to allow the factions to create their own ranks. This may be hard to code, but its worth a shot. Let's say that the leader types /f newrank <Name of rank> <Symbol of rank>. The symbol of rank is what appears before their title in faction chat. For leader it's **. So an example of this would be: /f newrank Helper ^. In chat, the Helper's chat would come across as this:
    [Faction ^Player]: Hi guys!​
    To set their perms, you could just do it as you set the perms now. I recommend that a new rank has all perms turned off at the start, so the leader can turn them on as he so chooses. So if I wanted the helper to ONLY be able to recruit, I could just do /f perm set invite helper yes. With this new rank option, the factions plugin is immediately made 6000x better, and you know it's true because I am Famous Mr. Statistics Man.

    In all seriousness, take a moment to think of all the stuff you could do with this. You could have a recruiting rank, a building rank, a public relations rank, a co-leader, a probation rank, etc. It is literally up to your imagination.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Yes more ranks would be absolutly amazing.
     
  16. Gabauchi

    Gabauchi Goblin Babe (Local Hotsexy)

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Messages:
    2,541
    Likes Received:
    2,373
    What if there was a minimum required population for the empire, so that you couldn't just abuse it with an alt? Like, a minimum of 50 people or so would practically guarantee that you need to be a competent real faction to become an empire.
     
  17. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    What if to counter potential abuse. There's a tax for just having the empire, as well as the land tax. So no matter who is in charge of the controlling faction they still have to pay that fee every day/week/month what have you. That way it really wouldn't matter if an alt fac is in charge
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Gabauchi

    Gabauchi Goblin Babe (Local Hotsexy)

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Messages:
    2,541
    Likes Received:
    2,373
    That would also encourage people to be financially able while creating an empire, meaning that it'll be experienced players running them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    The only issue im seeing with the more ranks idea that @Aespair proposed that other plugins like massivelock would need a lot of coding since they run of faction data. But a system with a concrete 3 or 4 new ranks across the board would be great.
     
  20. Neckerei

    Neckerei Broken Sword, Broken Spirit.

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    49
    Id also like the command to give your entire faction access to a chunk to build. Or make a perm to break on certain blocks in the faction like /f perm set crops mem yes or something so all members could farm without having access
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Devilkk

    Devilkk
    1. [-=-] Chimera [-=-]

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is definitely a great idea. I know that I, personally, would love to see this happen, and look forward to it being a possibility.
    Perhaps a cap of 10 ranks though however, or the ability to set the cap in the config file, because otherwise it could get out of hand.

    If I am correct? Don't quote me on this, but i believe massivelock checks for the ranking system used? Because I assume it wasn't just set up purely for factions, but to allow other plugins to work with it as well? So it may very well not make any difference to the rest of the plugins.

    Even better perhaps, a way to add a version of world edit/worldguard command //pos1 and //pos2 to the faction plugin, to create specific access areas.


    Granted, all of this would take a considerable amount of time to code into the plugin and or plugins, and debug it. But I think it would certainly improve the quality and usage of it.
     
    #21 Devilkk, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  22. Aespair

    Aespair valentinian shill

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    /f access f <faction> already does that
     
  23. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    This is correct but if all of a sudden there are six more ranks in factions. You would need to code those into massivelock
     
  24. Night_Raider_

    Night_Raider_ Night_Raider_ of ReDivision

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    5
    Would you? I thought massivelock ranks were entirely seperate from faction ranks. Or did I miss something?
    Anyway, this is a great idea and I would love to see it implemented as well as neckerei's idea of specific types of blocks having different build perms.
    Another option that I think would be very useful would be a way to limit the y-coordinates of /f access or have a different command similar to /f access that had this ability. I love /f access but it's of very limited use for me because I tend to stack layers in my base to keep the amount of claimed land (and tax) down. I have no idea if it would be possible to code something like that, but I have a feeling it would be very helpful because it could allow factions to use the land under their base as housing for recruits without giving them across-the-board build perms.
    Not trying to highjack this thread btw, but if I get some positive feedback and don't get told it isnt possible, I'll make a seperate thread.
     
  25. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Yes because you can set a lock rank for a faction rank. If i wanted to add all officers of tyberia to my lock under the lock rank member i would do

    /lock edit roles add member f.tyberia officer

    So it would have to reach into the ranks of that faction, and if there are custom ranks it would get confused (i would assume)
     
  26. Madus

    Madus Robot

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    215
    <complaint> Please keep the thread on topic. I was asked to give my feedback, and it becomes quite difficult to me to focus on the actual thread, when everyone believes they should use this thread to post unrelated faction wishes. <\complaint>

    Anyhow, Empires, the most wished faction addition ever (perhaps except for that new fancy rank). I might just not be visionary enough, but what exactly do you want with empires? Taxes aside for a moment, the only thing I see here is empire chat and some special feeling people have when they type a command to commit to an empire. I cannot see why we need empires, like really. It makes the faction system more complex, but what for, how do they actually improve gameplay? I might just be missing it, but I cannot see any advantages here.

    The taxes will be the same for all claims, empire claims or others. Changing claim taxes for certain claim types is a ridiculous way to change peoples behaviour into using the faction plugin in a specific way, much like when a government puts extra taxes on cigarettes. But while a government might have a compelling reason to stop people from smoking, we really shouldn't dictate if anyone joins an empire or not through taxing.

    I haven't even begun discussing if it is worth the time to implement. Personally I feel there is several things in factions that is more important to work on. I'd really like a reworked access system or the ability to make custom ranks (trust me, that won't be easy). So I think we should focus on doing those things straight and then perhaps later revisit this idea.
     
  27. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    What I think would be a cool setup for Empires is like a faction in itself. A leader faction. Officer factions. Member factions and so on. So an Empire would essentially be set up like a giant faction. I think that would be cool.

    It gives a point to these dominions. It gives unity. And it would be really fun. Those aee my reasons.
     
  28. FireFan96

    FireFan96 Imperial Bloodhound Staff Member Lore2
    1. House von Drachenburg

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,371
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    I see this empire idea and the towny plugin immediately comes to mind. The way I see the suggestion, it feels a lot like that plugin, except a little more open ended with permissions.
     
  29. Night_Raider_

    Night_Raider_ Night_Raider_ of ReDivision

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2016
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    5
    Alright, I had no idea you could do that. I only ever bothered to learn enough to make a lock, add autoclose, add/remove players and factions, and change it between private and public. Still have absolutely no idea about some aspects, especially massiveshops (I think that's what they call it anyway, cant think very well right now)
     
  30. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    The way I see it is that it a) gives people something to aspire to, ruling an empire. It also enables largest wars (empire v empire instead of faction v faction). Lastly, it gives real authority to someone who holds the position of Emperor while making it harder/impossible for subfactions to leech off another persons wealth/protection without giving anything in return.

    Right now, many players (like me) have done pretty much everything we've been interested in - I've run a Bank, ruled a Noble Family in Roleplay, built numerous towns, cities, castles, and factions, got a decent heap of money and items to live off of, and really don't have anything more to try and aim for... but building an Empire... I'd do that. It would get my attention - the work needed to organize, expand, defend, and maintain an empire would definitely be something I'd want to try. And I can't be the only player who wants to do that.

    This is a null argument - the mere existence of taxes causes people to change their behavior regarding factions (some people don't join them to avoid taxes, others don't claim as much, others refuse to accept people who don't have money. Always needing to worry about where your next tax payment will come from is detrimental to literally every activity on MassiveCraft that needs a faction to be done. This would give a reason to be part of an Empire while also making it easier for factions to expand, survive, and get stuff done.

    While I can understand the desire/need to rework things like /f access and the rank setups, I also think that "the most wished faction addition ever" should at least be factored onto that list through sheer public demand. Though I also understand if you don't want to bend to public demand on anything so that we don't get all spoiled and bratty about wanting stuff lol
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  31. Madus

    Madus Robot

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    215
    So an empire can't really be used for anything, other than giving people a feeling it is special because they have to type a few commands instead of a few messages.

    It seems I wasn't clear enough. Taxes were made to discourage people from claiming extreme amounts of land, and yes to change their behaviour.

    Exactly my point. There is not really a reason to be part of an empire. But you are trying to create one because you think it is a good idea to be part of an empire, even though the real benefits are miniscule.

    People do not know what they want before we show them. Had we tried to ask the player base for how our LWC replacement should be, we would probably be told to make something identical to LWC. We didn't and made something better. Nobody told me that tab completion would be cool, but I made it and it is pretty damn useful. Nobody told me changing configuration files from in-game was cool, but that allowed the pvp department to easily "fix" pvp. Right now we also need to add more premium features and find other income sources to keep the server alive, even though no player has asked for it. My point being that we cannot be dictated by public opinion, because public opinion doesn't see the larger picture.
     
    • Educated Educated x 1
  32. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    But @Madus using that logic... we wouldnt know how useful or fun an empire system would be until we had it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  33. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    So out of:
    1. Something to achieve/do.
    2. Larger wars/conflicts.
    3. Better control/centralization of empires.
    4. Deeper factions experience.
    5. Tax benefits for the poor.
    6. Tax hikes for the wealthy.
    You got "makes people feel good".

    Deldrimor Dominion, the Qaliphate, Sunkiss Empire, even looser organisations like the 2nd Alliance and the old Hisokian Collective - they have membership, but can't really do anything because of the complete lack of support for organizations spanning multiple factions. This would enable them to become actual entities within the game, with coherent governments, true influence, and responsibilities. I know full well the idea isn't perfect, and would need banging out and some serious balancing, but that's the same for a lot of different things on Massive.

    Lets take taxes out then, Madus. Empire would provide the first 4 of the 6 add ons listed above: Something to achieve, Larger Conflicts, Better Inter-Faction Control, and a Deeper Factions Experience. All of which I think are good. As for reasons for a faction to be part of an empire, those already exist. Entities like DeldDom and the Qaliphate don't exist because they're a detriment, they exist because they provide something - this would just enable them to get something back in return.

    I'm not entirely sure how to reply to this... it sounds downright oppressive, to be honest. "You aren't able to know what you want, so we'll tell you what you want even if you disagree." May as well remove the entire Suggestions section of the forums with that mindset.

    And I, for one, greatly appreciate all of the hard work Staff do supporting the server. It's a thankless job, most of the time, and I know you don't get anything out of it. But what exactly does any of that have to do with a suggestion? I understand that you guys work incredibly hard adding things people don't ever even think need to be added but... why does that devalue the things we do think should be added?

    I am not saying it should be decided solely by public opinion, only that you should factor in the wants and desires of your players when deciding what to do. Don't make them the sole guiding factor (god no! Some of us are really really stupid xD) but don't ignore us solely because we aren't server staff. And if you think this would hurt the server overall, explain WHY. Don't just say "you don't see the larger picture" show us that larger picture, if you're allowed.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I mean no disrespect by any of my comments. If they are taken in a disrespectful way or found to be insulting, I apologize. I tend to speak my mind, and that can get me into trouble - but if I just remain silent... well, I don't consider silence a good option. Communication is the start of progress. But I must say that I found your post to be... well, a tad bit disrespectful and you seemed to disregard entirely things you didn't agree with, rather than attempting to respond to them. Honestly, it makes me not want to continue this discussion and to not suggest things to the server, even if I think they'd be good ideas. Sorry if that's not how you meant it, that's just how I took it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #33 Mecharic, May 7, 2016
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  34. Aespair

    Aespair valentinian shill

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Messages:
    2,227
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    This. Because of the lack of an Empire plugin, the lack of an organized conglomeration of factions, me and Mech are sitting around with our thumbs up our rears because we have no drive or goal to achieve with the 2A. We made a convo, said "lol we are an Alliance now," and that's about it. We have done absolutely nothing in-game with it because 1. I can't remember for the life of me which factions are in the damn thing, 2. I can't find out which of the factions are online except from /f f'ing them all (which gets real tiring when there's seven factions in it) and 3. They all stay the same thing as allies because we can't make them something special or something more.
     
  35. Made_By

    Made_By Holy King of the Steadfast

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    88
    @Madus If you say that the point of an Empire would just be to make people feel good would that not then be the same with factions?

    This has been in demand for a while now because of the dying politics and faction interactions over the years. A plug-in like this that would aid greater organisations in communicatingon a larger scales, allows realistic chance of territory domination amongst worlds were singular factions or player-made empires wouldn't be able to achieve, revitalizes the faction politics bringing bigger and most likely larger scaled wars but also sews the chasm separating the pvp and rp communities by offering factions a chance for something to fight for and represent in the factions world.
     
  36. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    You could easily say the same thing about nicknames or faction titles. Just because it's a little bit of extra embellishments isn't a bad thing
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  37. Legles101

    Legles101

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    4
    Imagine if the USA stayed as thirteen seperate colonies instead.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  38. Zacatero

    Zacatero give a quack to wingback
    1. *✴︎ Cadun ✴︎*

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    4,418
    Likes Received:
    1,439
  39. Mecharic

    Mecharic I'm tempermental, deal with it.
    1. The Second Alliance

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,621
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    @Madus - Never did get a reply to my earlier post. At least explain what you think an Empire expansion would do to harm the server.
     
  40. Madus

    Madus Robot

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    215
    Except for the taxes, you haven't at all explained how this will give better control of factions how this will create larger wars (nobody stops you from making empire wars today) nor how it will give a better factions experience. So I take this as a confirmation of my statement that it isn't really useful at all.

    I was more or less quoting Steve Jobs, because one of the most successful companies on earth was built upon the idea of showing people what features their tech products should have and not ask them. I am not trying to say that I can be as visionary as Steve Jobs, but it still applies that people who are not used to creating products (or in this case developing plugins) are usually bad at it.

    Let me be clear. What I said was a list of things most players would not have thought of if they were asked what they wanted. I tried to assert my previous statement.

    You aren't ignored just because you aren't server staff, but as with any other suggestion I take time to think if it would actually benefit the server compared to what else I could do. Often other staff members says "this would be cool and that would be cool" and most of the time ti is really cool, but sadly most of those ideas are never implemented either.

    First of all empires make an already complex plugin even more complex. Complexity is bad because it makes it more difficult to use for people. Sometimes that complexity allows us to make even better plugins (MassiveLock for instance, it is really fucking cool, but sadly a tad advanced for some players), but I see no real benefit with the things mentioned. You say better control and deeper experience, but you don't mention how.
    Second of all, there is tons of things that could be done to the Factions plugin (customisable ranks for one) that would add actual benefit and make the plugin more enjoyable.
    For the last part there is also other things to work on. Currently we need to improve the premium package in order to secure revenue to thes server (among other things we do to make revenue) which most people don't think of.

    I did not find anything you said disrespectful. If I said anything disrespectful I am sorry for that it was not my intention.
    Please tell what what I dismissed instead of replying to, I thought I had replied to everything you said, but I might have failed (I am only a human after all).
     
    • Informative Informative x 2

Share This Page