Archived Faction Pvp Permission Changes, Suggestions

[MorgothTheDark]

Hello, I'm here to give my opinion about the current factions setting, and how I feel it could be altered to make for a more enjoyable experience.

Having played Minecraft (and Massive) for way too much time, especially in a PvP setting, I just figured I would share some input about how things get handled in the factions world.

Raiding​

Going to go over this, since above all, I tend to take the role of a raider when it comes to factions.


There's a few things, as a raider, that I can't do, that I feel like I, and others, should be able to do in a proper raid scenario.

1. Open chests of other factions​

Woah woah woah, stop NOT MY CHESTS! <--- Common concern of someone who doesn't understand the system that could be implemented.

Every time someone mentions a raider being able to open their chests, I feel like people's brains start firing off red flags of distress and worry.

What if MY stuff gets stolen?! All my hard work and time, gone, in the blink of an eye.


My suggestion is one of the following:


1. A way is implemented to allow a player to open chests. Including those that have been locked. This does not have to be instant, and could perhaps take some time. During this time period, if the player were interrupted, the process would be disrupted.


2. Chests have their inherent faction protection removed. (I, personally, don't like this option as much)



3. A "skeleton key" object is implemented. This is a craftable item that requires extensive resources to be made, and can be used to open a single chest. After opening a single chest, it is destroyed.




WHY this should be implemented, and a defense against "this will ruin things for a lot of people"


This should be implemented to allow raiders to actually do more with the process of raiding. To have an increase in loot, tactics, and PvP.

Imagine raiding and leaving with more than just perhaps a god weapon and and potions, or an inventory full of some random faction member's junk.

How does this increase tactics, you may ask?


Well, this does just this for BOTH raiders AND the faction builders! Imagine this were implemented, what is something you would have to do immediately?


You'd have to make sure all of your chests were in a secure area. Well, what is a secure area in this scenario?

A keep, a vault, an underground storage chamber, a hold at the top of a tower, etc. Anything that a player physically cannot get into. Whatever form that takes is up to you.

You could build virtually the same, and play virtually the same, it's just you would have to have a functionally protective and secure base instead of one that is just "pretty".

Is it really such a stretch for factions to create a vault or keep to store items of value in?

If ANY of these were implemented, you could STILL have your chests be UNTOUCHABLE. It's just YOU would have to do it, instead of permissions doing it for you. Which, in my opinion, is how it should be to begin with.

2.Make wooden doors/hatches openable to enemies​

Many times I venture off halfway across the map to raid someone, just to find them afraid to fight and sitting in their house taunting me until I choose to leave. This has happened multiple times.

What is the magical barrier that stops me, an axe wielding homocidal maniac? A door. A wooden door. Or a hatch. Also wooden.

Let me say this, I have NO problem with someone being completely safe when I raid. IF the proper structures are made and considerations are taken.

Is a wooden house with glass windows secure? No. But, the permissions make it magically so. Am I saying let us destroy people's houses? Not exactly.

My suggestion is one of the following:


1. Make wooden doors and hatches openable in general. No limiting permissions.


2. Make wooden doors and hatches destroyable. It's wood. Seriously, how hard is it to replace a door or hatch? A zombie in vanilla Minecraft is capable of breaking one over time, so we could take a system like that and implement it to the players. A timed breaking system, wherein you sit at the object, it makes some noise and progressively gets more "broken" until it pops. This would be visible and audible to anyone around the object. Knocking you off the object would disrupt the process.


3. Wooden doors can be "temporarily" knocked out, but will regenerate after a set time.



WHY this should be implemented, and a defense against "this will ruin things for a lot of people"


This should be implemented to increase raidability and to also ensure structures and factions build in a functionally defensive way, not just an aesthetically pleasing one. Is there anything wrong with building beautiful builds? Of course not.

However, it is not very fun to often find people hiding behind a door or similar barrier. Especially when often times, players who don't know any better get lured into these structures, just to be trapped by someone shutting the door behind them.


This ruins NOTHING, from the standpoint of a hiding faction member. It just means if they want to hide, they have to do it differently.

Build panic rooms, safe havens, use iron doors, etc.

You have to actually use your head, instead of the permissions system doing it for you.



Anyways, this is just my opinion, as someone that mainly plays the server for PvP in the factions world. In my mind, this does not inherently hurt anyone, it only makes it so you have to play a little bit differently, and in my opinion, a bit smarter.

 

[FireFan96]

What if MY stuff gets stolen?! All my hard work and time, gone, in the blink of an eye.

Click to shrink...

A sand block on top of a chest solves everything. I used to do it all the time on any faction server I played on, because you used to be able to open any chest, enemy or not.
Way to design the chests to allow this is make a staircase design, with sand in the gaps. It works very well, since the only way to get in was via explosion. Since we don't have that, you have raid-proof chests.

Course, this only applies if this idea was accepted.

 

[Alj23]

Your ideas make sense in theory, and I'm all for giving raiders a bit more rewards if they are obviously stronger than the defenders and are conducting a successful raid, but in practice, these ideas would wreck havoc on those less equipped and supplied than the average player.

You can look at it a lot of different ways really.

If raiders come and take the contents of multiple chest of a new player, you run the risk of driving the player away from the server indefinitely. A lot of people like MassiveCraft because it isn't a hardcore raid server. That doesn't mean we can't have elements of those types of servers, but the survival worlds cannot be turned into hardcore worlds.

I understand that raiders should receive something for conducting a successful raid. For all intents and purposes, a raid is successful when you're obviously strong enough that it causes the defending faction to hide inside and refuse to fight you.

What I would like to see are changes that are more minor inconveniences that if repeated numerous times over multiple raids will eventually encourage the faction to surrender, rather than changes that are game breaking and run the risk of driving players off the server the first time it occurrs. I can say with certainty that if I was a new player and I came to MassiveCraft with the understanding that this was not a hardcore PVP server, and I logged back on to find all my locked chest looted, I probably wouldn't stick around much longer.

Your thought process, which I would assume is giving raiders more rewards for successful raids and encouraging defenders to either fight back or surrender is right, but your ideas went down the wrong path and I feel would have some severe unintended side affects.

Tell me how you feel about that analysis and we can work on your ideas from there.

 

[Sevak]

So basically your idea is to make it so locks are worthless and wooden doors aren't a viable option anymore. The reason this will never work is because this is an idea that only benefits PvPers. You have to remember that there are other people in the community and most of them would probably hate to see this implemented.

 

[MorgothTheDark]

Your ideas make sense in theory, and I'm all for giving raiders a bit more rewards if they are obviously stronger than the defenders and are conducting a successful raid, but in practice, these ideas would wreck havoc on those less equipped and supplied than the average player.

You can look at it a lot of different ways really.

If raiders come and take the contents of multiple chest of a new player, you run the risk of driving the player away from the server indefinitely. A lot of people like MassiveCraft because it isn't a hardcore raid server. That doesn't mean we can't have elements of those types of servers, but the survival worlds cannot be turned into hardcore worlds.

I understand that raiders should receive something for conducting a successful raid. For all intents and purposes, a raid is successful when you're obviously strong enough that it causes the defending faction to hide inside and refuse to fight you.

What I would like to see are changes that are more minor inconveniences that if repeated numerous times over multiple raids will eventually encourage the faction to surrender, rather than changes that are game breaking and run the risk of driving players off the server the first time it occurrs. I can say with certainty that if I was a new player and I came to MassiveCraft with the understanding that this was not a hardcore PVP server, and I logged back on to find all my locked chest looted, I probably wouldn't stick around much longer.

Your thought process, which I would assume is giving raiders more rewards for successful raids and encouraging defenders to either fight back or surrender is right, but your ideas went down the wrong path and I feel would have some severe unintended side affects.

Tell me how you feel about that analysis and we can work on your ideas from there.

Click to shrink...

I understand the importance of allowing newer players to get "built up". By doing that, they are more likely to stay on the server for a longer period of time, and who knows, even eventually create one of the largest factions the server has seen.


However, I feel like it is not that much of an asking for a new player to mine enough iron for a door, and to build a safe room or keep. Or to simply box off all of their chests.

Or to do what fire suggested.

Let me say I HATE hardcore servers. I hate obsidian vaults being hit with tnt and all that jive. Seriously immature players frequent those servers.

 

[MorgothTheDark]

So basically your idea is to make it so locks are worthless and wooden doors aren't a viable option anymore. The reason this will never work is because this is an idea that only benefits PvPers. You have to remember that there are other people in the community and most of them would probably hate to see this implemented.

Click to shrink...

If you went with a skeletal key approach, they wouldn't be useless. They'd just have a counter.


A very expensive counter. You could make it out of very expensive items.

This is also in the factions world. A world that supports PvP.

 

[Mecharic]

I just found the biggest and most obvious loophole in your entire setup: offline. What's to stop a player from waiting till a faction is offline, walking in, destroying doors and emptying chests?

More thoughts coming btw.

 

[MorgothTheDark]

I just found the biggest and most obvious loophole in your entire setup: offline. What's to stop a player from waiting till a faction is offline, walking in, destroying doors and emptying chests?

More thoughts coming btw.

Click to shrink...

Not a loophole. That's part of the system.

That's why you construct your faction's base in such a way to eliminate this.


I did say, if you BUILT correctly, your chests could still be UNTOUCHABLE.

 

[Mecharic]

Not a loophole. That's part of the system.

That's why you construct your faction's base in such a way to eliminate this.


I did say, if you BUILT correctly, your chests could still be UNTOUCHABLE.

Click to shrink...

Online/Offline should never be considered a viable mechanic. Sorry, it just shouldn't. You can't claim a victorious raid when the faction is offline, why should you be able to steal from them?

 

[Sevak]

Not a loophole. That's part of the system.

That's why you construct your faction's base in such a way to eliminate this.


I did say, if you BUILT correctly, your chests could still be UNTOUCHABLE.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I'm just gonna say now there's no way in hell I cover every chest in my storage with sand and replace every wooden door on my land with an iron one. This idea ruins the point of why a lot of people play massive. Because its not like every other factions server. A lot of people have suggested stuff like this and over claiming in the past before. This only benefits PvPers that like to raid and no one else

 

[Mecharic]

So, I'm going to break this into several parts for you:

Chests:
You will never convince me that giving people the ability to access chests regardless of locks or factions is a good idea. Sorry, not happening. MassiveLock exists to prevent theft of items, not just make it harder to do. But wait, there's more! Give an inch, take a mile. Give players the ability to steal and they'll completely empty entire faction storages the moment they get access. That would in turn cripple the faction, possibly even leading to disbandment and players quitting the server.

Doors:
I'm open to the idea of wooden doors being breakable. I'd suggest giving a wooden door that isn't accessible the same durability as an obsidian block - that way it takes a while to break through it, makes plenty of noise, and is easily stopped by knocking the player away. It also means PvPers will need to bring an axe with them just to break it, increasing loot if they die (which balances out the whole "we r iz in ur base nao" factor). Shouldn't be that big a deal, all things considered, right? And it's more roleplay-accurate that they'd need an ax (swords aren't too good at taking out doors you know).

Hatches:
Sorry, but from a roleplay perspective this doesn't make much sense. It's not easy to break a hatch, they're smaller & thicker than a door would be, and the angle needed to hit them is massively different from that of a door. Hatches are generally safer. Maybe make the durability twice that of an obsidian block, to factor in the difficulty of breaking such a barrier?

Conclusion:
You want PvPers to have more advantages in-game. And to a degree I support this. Making it harder to hide from raiders is definitely something I can get behind, which is why I support making doors breakable with high durability. However, stealing is... no. Sorry, but you don't deserve to take my stuff just because you can kill me.

 

[MorgothTheDark]

Online/Offline should never be considered a viable mechanic. Sorry, it just shouldn't. You can't claim a victorious raid when the faction is offline, why should you be able to steal from them?

Click to shrink...

So, I'm going to break this into several parts for you:

Chests:
You will never convince me that giving people the ability to access chests regardless of locks or factions is a good idea. Sorry, not happening. MassiveLock exists to prevent theft of items, not just make it harder to do. But wait, there's more! Give an inch, take a mile. Give players the ability to steal and they'll completely empty entire faction storages the moment they get access. That would in turn cripple the faction, possibly even leading to disbandment and players quitting the server.

Doors:
I'm open to the idea of wooden doors being breakable. I'd suggest giving a wooden door that isn't accessible the same durability as an obsidian block - that way it takes a while to break through it, makes plenty of noise, and is easily stopped by knocking the player away. It also means PvPers will need to bring an axe with them just to break it, increasing loot if they die (which balances out the whole "we r iz in ur base nao" factor). Shouldn't be that big a deal, all things considered, right? And it's more roleplay-accurate that they'd need an ax (swords aren't too good at taking out doors you know).

Hatches:
Sorry, but from both a roleplay perspective this doesn't make much sense. It's not easy to break a hatch, they're smaller & thicker than a door would be, and the angle needed to hit them is massively different from that of a door. Hatches are generally safer. Maybe make the durability twice that of an obsidian block, to factor in the difficulty of breaking such a barrier?

Conclusion:
You want PvPers to have more advantages in-game. And to a degree I support this. Making it harder to hide from raiders is definitely something I can get behind, which is why I support making doors breakable with high durability. However, stealing is... no. Sorry, but you don't deserve to take my stuff just because you can kill me.

Click to shrink...

I'm not talking about faction members stealing from their own faction, or clearing them out. That should be heavily against the rules.

If you were dumb enough to sit your chests where someone under this system had access to them, then I think you deserve to lose your items.
(Which it has been stated several times there are ways around this happening, and in fact, the methods to prevent this are rather easily implemented by a player)

Not just "because I can kill you".

The chests were a bit of a stretch, I honestly figured the community would be against losing their items. I'm more concerned with doors honestly.

Because I hate raiding only to be met with people locking themselves somewhere I can't get. (Sometimes people with gear do this to) I do not raid for your convenience, or to accommodate my enemy. I raid to have fun and possibly score some loot.

Yeah I'm just gonna say now there's no way in hell I cover every chest in my storage with sand and replace every wooden door on my land with an iron one. This idea ruins the point of why a lot of people play massive. Because its not like every other factions server. A lot of people have suggested stuff like this and over claiming in the past before. This only benefits PvPers that like to raid and no one else

Click to shrink...

Don't see what the issue is with supporting PvPers in the factions world. To my knowledge, even though other behaviors are shown in the factions world, isn't a large part of that world and its systems built on PvP between factions and raiding? Didn't we just have a update for the PvPers specifically? Trait removing and damage calibration? Ones that specifically PvPers use?

 

[Mecharic]

I'm not talking about faction members stealing from their own faction, or clearing them out. That should be heavily against the rules.

Click to shrink...

I'm not talking about that either (though lets be frank: it'll happen regardless).

If you were dumb enough to sit your chests where someone under this system had access to them, then I think you deserve to lose your items.
(Which it has been stated several times there are ways around this happening, and in fact, the methods to prevent this are rather easily implemented by a player)

Not just "because I can kill you".

Click to shrink...

If you're dumb enough to think that's an acceptable argument I also bet you're one of those people who thinking that allying someone, /tping to their /f home, and then enemying them is perfectly legit too. At which point we have nothing more to discuss, as I find that to be borderline exploitation of plugin features, even if it's allowed by the rules.

And yes... just because you can kill me. If you can't kill me, you have no right to my stuff, no matter how clever you may be. Loot is stuff you get for killing people, not for waiting till they're offline and then stealing their stuff.

The chests were a bit of a stretch, I honestly figured the community would be against losing their items. I'm more concerned with doors honestly.

Because I hate raiding only to be met with people locking themselves somewhere I can't get. (Sometimes people with gear do this to) I do not raid for your convenience, or to accommodate my enemy. I raid to have fun and possibly score some loot.

Click to shrink...

Chests will never happens. Doors could definitely happen. Not hard to have secure faction bases using iron doors for castles and such, most should already have those tbh

(1)Don't see what the issue is with supporting PvPers in the factions world. (2)To my knowledge, even though other behaviors are shown in the factions world, isn't a large part of that world and its systems built on PvP between factions and raiding?

Click to shrink...

1) Nothing wrong with supporting PvP, but you can't support ONLY pvp. MassiveCraft is NOT a hardcore pvp server, it's a server that tries very hard to be balanced and to favor and support no single group over another. Does it succeed? Not always, but most of the time I think it does, and that's what I like most about MassiveCraft.
2) No... the Survival Worlds have never been exclusively for PvP nor even focused on PvP. They're focused on Survival, PvE. Building a base with materials you gathered/purchased, protecting it from players & mobs, and then expanding upon it. Factions is not to enable PvP but to protect players from grief by PvPers. The survival worlds are not exclusively for PvP, Kit and the KotH's are.

 

[MorgothTheDark]

I'm not talking about that either (though lets be frank: it'll happen regardless).



If you're dumb enough to think that's an acceptable argument I also bet you're one of those people who thinking that allying someone, /tping to their /f home, and then enemying them is perfectly legit too. At which point we have nothing more to discuss, as I find that to be borderline exploitation of plugin features, even if it's allowed by the rules.

And yes... just because you can kill me. If you can't kill me, you have no right to my stuff, no matter how clever you may be. Loot is stuff you get for killing people, not for waiting till they're offline and then stealing their stuff.



Chests will never happens. Doors could definitely happen. Not hard to have secure faction bases using iron doors for castles and such, most should already have those tbh



1) Nothing wrong with supporting PvP, but you can't support ONLY pvp. MassiveCraft is NOT a hardcore pvp server, it's a server that tries very hard to be balanced and to favor and support no single group over another. Does it succeed? Not always, but most of the time I think it does, and that's what I like most about MassiveCraft.
2) No... the Survival Worlds have never been exclusively for PvP nor even focused on PvP. They're focused on Survival, PvE. Building a base with materials you gathered/purchased, protecting it from players & mobs, and then expanding upon it. Factions is not to enable PvP but to protect players from grief by PvPers. The survival worlds are not exclusively for PvP, Kit and the KotH's are.

Click to shrink...

I don't think that, that's illogical and scummish. I hope you don't play in casinos often, because your bets wouldn't land you much.

That is also not a proper basis of comparison.

Being able to steal from an enemy chest is not the same line of thinking as allying a faction, teleporting to their home then trying to slay them under the pretense of false friendship. That's something a child does, or an idiot. It's scummish and I consider it a form of meta-gaming because I was transported into a secure area I may not have gotten into otherwise.

I am talking about being present on a raid and having additional options for loot sources. You are talking about another matter entirely, which is false alliances that are only used to propagate you circumcising having to physically walk, or use portals, to a faction you have enemied to raid. It's cheating because you had access you would not have had under valid conditions.

Which is in and of itself the problem of deceitful players that have no intentions other than to harm and cause grief for the server.


That's more comparable to a faction member stealing from his own faction, in my opinion.





I'm not supporting only PvP. I love all aspects of Massive, it's just this is a suggestion to allow those who do PvP or raid to have more options when it comes to the actual process of raiding a faction.

This is specifically a PvP suggestion. It's not a bigger market suggestion, or a remove gift4all suggestion, etc. Those all point to their specific audiences who would find some benefit in their implementation.

You act as if each suggestion must benefit the whole of the community, as in every single player (Which I admit, is not bad thinking), rather than just be usable by the whole (anyone would be capable of this) of the community with some benefit. When roleplay elements are updated or changed, it does nothing for those who do not roleplay. Yet, those who do roleplay gain from it.

I'd wager there are many people who do not tame many Massive Mobs, because of the resource cost and relative worthlessness of the mob itself. Should Massive Mobs be removed?



I am also highly confident that a minority of players utilize the Vampire plugin, does that mean it should be removed? Even though I have the capability to have to fight a vampiric player while not being a vampire myself?



If the majority of players do not use bows and strike traits, should the bows and strike traits not exist?

Or flywater. If a group of raiders gets a little mad because a faction is using flywater to avoid death, should flywater not exist?

Or should the raiders try to use stun strike with bows or melee to try and counter the strategy of using flywater?


Roleplayers don't use strike traits, but PvPers do. So should they not exist since they only benefit one portion of the community?


I understand this might affect someone that would have no intent of using this feature, but it is easily countered.

I do not personally feel like this is a valid line of thinking to discourage a PvP based suggestion. While you may not agree with it, and may curse it to death, I believe the line of reasoning:

"I don't want this because only some people would find any use for this"

Is not valid



"I don't want this because the so many people would have to change things to be safe from it"

Is valid



I also never said the survival worlds were exclusively designed for PvP. I said that PvP, to my knowledge, is a decently portioned activity in the survival worlds. Which is to say, it is not uncommon to find PvP in the survival worlds. Over the last few years that I have played Massive on and off, PvP was always present, and it was never too hard to find someone to raid or defend. That's as someone who doesn't typically join larger factions either. Of course it all depends who is online at any given time, and who you are. Different people prioritize different things on the server.

In fact, while I can't be certain since I'm not present everywhere, I'd wager it (PvP) goes on nearly every day in some form.


Anyways, I'd rather make progress on discussing doors. Because there is no progress to be made with this.

Your concept of how the door breaking would function is very acceptable.


However, I must defend my stance on hatches. You are defending from a roleplay perspective. It doesn't make much sense for people to punch down trees with their hands in the wilderness, but I'm going to assume they do that too. The increased duration on hatches being broken could make sense due to the size and angle of impact.


I'm trying to suggest less barriers for raiders, because I've seen factions use these two objects as barriers in PvP many times. I have also seen people become trapped in structures, because they did not know any better not to enter; due to the fact they could not operate the door or hatch.

Again as I have said, factions should be able to maintain a level of safety. I just, personally, feel like these barriers could be worked with to create a more cohesive raiding experience because they are often used obstructively, when in my opinion, that obstruction or safety, should be managed in other ways.

 

[65jes89]

Let me say I HATE hardcore servers. I hate obsidian vaults being hit with tnt and all that jive. Seriously immature players frequent those servers.

Click to shrink...

Tbh those aren't hardcore servers, they're rather wimpy imo. Hardcore factions servers generally don't have chest opening as an option unless you die, like a lot. But that's a bit off-topic.

Personally I, even as a pvper, really don't like this. Chest opening, I'm 100% against, and will pretty much always be. To me, stuff like skeleton keys have never made sense. Why bother locking your stuff if someone can wander in and take it? Even if you could only open like one chest an hour, I have chests that by themselves are worth thousands of regals.

As for doors, it won't do anything but make everyone start using iron doors, which frankly will just make buildings look uglier.

 

[Mecharic]

I don't think that, that's illogical and scummish. I hope you don't play in casinos often, because your bets wouldn't land you much.

That is also not a proper basis of comparison.

Being able to steal from an enemy chest is not the same line of thinking as allying a faction, teleporting to their home then trying to slay them under the pretense of false friendship. That's something a child does, or an idiot. It's scummish and I consider it a form of meta-gaming because I was transported into a secure area I may not have gotten into otherwise.

I am talking about being present on a raid and having additional options for loot sources. You are talking about another matter entirely, which is false alliances that are only used to propagate you circumcising having to physically walk, or use portals, to a faction you have enemied to raid. It's cheating because you had access you would not have had under valid conditions.

Which is in and of itself the problem of deceitful players that have no intentions other than to harm and cause grief for the server.

That's more comparable to a faction member stealing from his own faction, in my opinion.

I'm not supporting only PvP. I love all aspects of Massive, it's just this is a suggestion to allow those who do PvP or raid to have more options when it comes to the actual process of raiding a faction.

This is specifically a PvP suggestion. It's not a bigger market suggestion, or a remove gift4all suggestion, etc. Those all point to their specific audiences who would find some benefit in their implementation.

You act as if each suggestion must benefit the whole of the community, as in every single player (Which I admit, is not bad thinking), rather than just be usable by the whole (anyone would be capable of this) of the community with some benefit. When roleplay elements are updated or changed, it does nothing for those who do not roleplay. Yet, those who do roleplay gain from it.

I'd wager there are many people who do not tame many Massive Mobs, because of the resource cost and relative worthlessness of the mob itself. Should Massive Mobs be removed?

I am also highly confident that a minority of players utilize the Vampire plugin, does that mean it should be removed? Even though I have the capability to have to fight a vampiric player while not being a vampire myself?

If the majority of players do not use bows and strike traits, should the bows and strike traits not exist?

Or flywater. If a group of raiders gets a little mad because a faction is using flywater to avoid death, should flywater not exist?

Or should the raiders try to use stun strike with bows or melee to try and counter the strategy of using flywater?

Roleplayers don't use strike traits, but PvPers do. So should they not exist since they only benefit one portion of the community?

I understand this might affect someone that would have no intent of using this feature, but it is easily countered.

I do not personally feel like this is a valid line of thinking to discourage a PvP based suggestion. While you may not agree with it, and may curse it to death, I believe the line of reasoning:

"I don't want this because only some people would find any use for this"

Is not valid

"I don't want this because the so many people would have to change things to be safe from it"

Is valid

I also never said the survival worlds were exclusively designed for PvP. I said that PvP, to my knowledge, is a decently portioned activity in the survival worlds. Which is to say, it is not uncommon to find PvP in the survival worlds. Over the last few years that I have played Massive on and off, PvP was always present, and it was never too hard to find someone to raid or defend. That's as someone who doesn't typically join larger factions either. Of course it all depends who is online at any given time, and who you are. Different people prioritize different things on the server.

In fact, while I can't be certain since I'm not present everywhere, I'd wager it (PvP) goes on nearly every day in some form.

Click to shrink...

Ok, so I'm going to be honest I didn't entirely follow this part of your post since you didn't break mine up or anything, so I'll do my best...

With regards to the part about you being dumb, that was mostly an immature response on my part to your statement about people not securing their chests well enough (in a game where /lock exists and alongside suggestions that would make securing anything a LOT harder) are dumb and deserve to be stolen from. I do not consider such an argument valid, and compared it to arguments where people say "if you don't want people to /tp urfaction and then raid you, don't give allies access".

With regards to your statement "this allows anyone to steal" a) I dislike it even more when put that way, and b) do you honestly think a single RPer will ever use this feature? No, it's something only trolls, thieves, and PvPers will use. Allowing theft from locked chests does not benefit the overall server, just the people that feel like they deserve more for breaking into someone else's home.

I don't like plugins that exist solely to empower one group of players. If a plugin does the opposite - empowering one group of players while making life more difficult for everyone else - I oppose it. That is why I oppose this Chest idea.

You did say that PvP was the primary feature of the survival worlds, right here:

To my knowledge, even though other behaviors are shown in the factions world, isn't a large part of that world and its systems built on PvP between factions and raiding? Didn't we just have a update for the PvPers specifically? Trait removing and damage calibration? Ones that specifically PvPers use?

Click to shrink...

Anyways, I'd rather make progress on discussing doors. Because there is no progress to be made with this.

Your concept of how the door breaking would function is very acceptable.

However, I must defend my stance on hatches. You are defending from a roleplay perspective. It doesn't make much sense for people to punch down trees with their hands in the wilderness, but I'm going to assume they do that too. The increased duration on hatches being broken could make sense due to the size and angle of impact.

I'm trying to suggest less barriers for raiders, because I've seen factions use these two objects as barriers in PvP many times. I have also seen people become trapped in structures, because they did not know any better not to enter; due to the fact they could not operate the door or hatch.

Again as I have said, factions should be able to maintain a level of safety. I just, personally, feel like these barriers could be worked with to create a more cohesive raiding experience because they are often used obstructively, when in my opinion, that obstruction or safety, should be managed in other ways.

Click to shrink...

While I do not disagree with any of your thoughts on Hatches (as I was viewing it from an RP standpoint not a gameplay standpoint) I do need to point out that Iron Doors & Iron Hatches are very much real and would swiftly replace any wooden doors that are on actively used structures... at which point nothing will have changed. Still like the idea of wood being breakable, but not so sure on it's application :/