Economy

Sell items in trade and chest shops for much higher prices?

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    19
  • Poll closed .
A

airportmad

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It has come to my attention that the economy on massivecraft is ruined! So to try and fix this problem I think people should start selling items for higher prices to try and resolve the matter. Vote yes below if you think this is a good idea or vote no if you don't but if you do vote no tell me WHY!
 
I voted no because it's just not the way economy works. Also there will be someone that keeps selling them for less.
Without x-ray diamonds would be worth more I guess. Still there are other ways to make money and my trading partner and I were able to make more than 1000s in around a week (without a shop). So I can't really complain about the economy.
 
The economy is fine. If you're upset about being undersold, and have the capital to back it up, you should just buy out the redic diamonds and resell for profit.

I've found some stores that sold diamonds for 15 copper. Nice. Then one story bugged and charged me 1 silver for 1 diamond.

Anyways, these low prices are actually giving a greater value to our currency. It's like we've rewound and suddenly a bottle of coke is 50 cents from the vending machine again.

The staple are the things that don't change, such as Facs. It takes 200 silver to buy a fac. That's pretty much buying a home and should be expensive.

If your diamonds sell for 5 silver each, that fac price is devalued. However, if your diamonds are selling for .25 (about what it usually is now), then your home value is 20x higher.

I think the economy is fine, so I voted against the inflation.
 
I have been having the opposite view. What you say is nice, but isn't exactly the case, my faction i bought for 200 silver full, is most likely worth 90 silver to some of the ridiculous people. My assets have been losing value ever since i've purchased them, currently, im trying to get out now by selling a whole ton of my stuff. For example, mulligans beautiful faction, that is worth 600 silver or more, is trying to be purchased for prices of 210 silver. These low values are degrading the economy, in my opinion, it almost all revolves around the factions buy price, 200 silver, which is controlled by the ops and will continue to stay the same, while the retail prices are dropping, which will NOT help the economy. If you try to sell diamonds for 1 silver, while you competition is selling for lower, you will not make a profit. I vote in favor of the inflation.[DOUBLEPOST=1357340252][/DOUBLEPOST]oh, and two things, you will be undersold if we heighten the economy prices, and when companies in the real world agree to raise their prices to extremes, it is called price gouging, and is illegal.
 
Fuschia buys diamonds for .5 each then burns them. I heard Tax is going to do the same thing once he hits 2000 silver.

I'm not voting because I believe that the economy will recover, but it will take time.
 
I think the problem is that people have a hard time judging the market value of goods. Price lists never work because economies are meant to fluctuate and cycle, but I think one solution would be to make market information more accessible to everyone.

If there were a /warp marketplace, a "/currentmarketprices" or something of the sort where people could go to a common place to buy goods or esaily have access to market data, then there would be a smaller standard deviation of prices and the price of individual goods would have a beta closer to 1. In this case, if the economy goes up, the price of goods would go in the same direction.

The problem when people have little or no access to market information is that prices go bezerk and have absolutely no correlation or extremely high variances.

In simple terms what I would suggest is to create some sort of index for past and/or current prices for different groups of items. In financial terms the server's economy is informationally inefficient and doesn't even qualify as a weak form efficient market...
 
muzbush said:
I think the problem is that people have a hard time judging the market value of goods. Price lists never work because economies are meant to fluctuate and cycle, but I think one solution would be to make market information more accessible to everyone.

If there were a /warp marketplace or something of the sort where people could go to a common place to buy goods then there would be a smaller standard deviation of prices and the price of individual goods would have a beta closer to 1. In this case, if the economy goes up, the price of goods would go in the same direction.

The problem when people have little or no access to market information is that prices go bezerk and have absolutely no correlation or extremely high variances.

In simple terms what I would suggest is to create some sort of index for past and/or current prices for different groups of items. In financial terms the server's economy is informationally inefficient and doesn't even qualify as a weak form efficient market...
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good idea
 
I'm still not seeing where the economy is hurting. What exactly are you guys not able to afford here? I would rather buy apples for a copper and sell them for a copper than to have to pay a silver for apples and sell them for a silver. From what I've seen, the money system is still a basic bartering currency.

It's natural fluctuation based on rarity and dependency.

I was actually looking at some of the market stalls and thinking, "Why would I pay this much copper for some bread when I can farm wheat for free and make my own in just a few short minutes?" I mean, wheat is everywhere.

The only thing I have trouble finding are diamonds and emeralds, but there are many people who have found tons of them. This type of economy is harder to 'get rich' because wealth perspective.

I see anyone with more than 200 silver as well off. If Tax is waiting for 2000 silver, that's blowing my mind. That's the Bill Gates of Massivecraft.


The only issue I've seen is in people leaving the server, giving their items away and selling their Factions cheap. Zpade just bought me a faction (with 110 power) for 40silver.

Factions are like buying a brand new car. Go to a deal, it'll cost you and arm and a leg. Try to resell it for the same value, even if you never drove it, and nobody will buy it from you. Buy for 50k, sell for 35k. People want a deal, otherwise why wouldn't they just get one from their own deal (Or in this case, buy their own fac for 200silver).

Instead of selling the faction, it's the reality you're selling. Your creative landscapes and building designs. You can't promise a Fac with 300power because all the members will probably leave. You can, however, have grabbed 300 power worth of beautiful land.

I'll refer to myself again when I say that the fac I received had a handful of afk members and no buildings. Which is what I wanted anyways. It was just a cheaper alternative to paying 200silver.

Why? Because I'm broke. I don't see that as a bad thing in a game where money really doesn't matter at all. Anything you want, you can get for yourself at a reasonable cost of effort, aside from reality.

So I'm not going to pay 5 silver for a +3 power bow when I already have 4. Killing zombies and mining gives me +30 levels, I gotta spend them on something while I'm doing nothing.


So from my point of view, I see things as being too expensive already, with the exception of diamonds (Which I think .25 is the perfect value) and reality (people need to appreciate location and design and reward that with -higher- value. This is the only thing I think should be inflated.)


I'm here to listen and learn, I just need better examples of what you're missing out on. If you're earning x and spending x, then the variable is interchangable and inflation would only make it harder on the new players.

I'll also add that new players start off middle-class. If you're a dumb newbie, like I was, you may get tricked into clicking signs wondering why they're not working and accidentally have given away 30silver for some cookies. However, if you're a smart noob, like my wife, you'll visit every market stand and spend wisely.

I mean, why buy diamond pickaxe for 1silver when diamonds are .25? Just buy three diamonds and walk outside to find a tree for the handle.
 
airportmad said:
It has come to my attention that the economy on massivecraft is ruined! So to try and fix this problem I think people should start selling items for higher prices to try and resolve the matter. Vote yes below if you think this is a good idea or vote no if you don't but if you do vote no tell me WHY!
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You're the one who sells diamonds for 0.25. There will always be people who try to get an edge on others, and sell for less. For example, people kept enderpearls expensive for a while, 1.5, but now someone has started selling them for 0.45, effectively forcing everyone to cut their prices.
 
You could also change the amount of cash when a new player starts every couple of months or every quarter to adjust for inflation or devaluation of currency..


I gotta go out for a bit, when I come back I'll try to remember to post about how to stop people from underselling and basically "cutting everyone's grass".
 
Everybody, get as many diamonds as you possibly have and we will all gather at spawn! Then, we will throw EVERY DIAMOND into the city lava pool! That'll fix the prices real good.
 
Personally, I don't see a huge problem with the economy. Granted I haven't been around as long as many of you, so all this is normal to me. But the point I'm trying to make is, the economy is fine as long as people are buying and selling on a regular basis and aren't having a tough time trying to afford items. Anyone play the Diablo games? Diablo 2 or now 3? Items once worth a thousand gold are now worth tens of millions. That is what I consider a broken economy. Where you have to play and struggle for weeks on end just to buy 1 item. We don't have that problem. Maybe the prices are fluctuating, but thats what an economy is for.
 
STEVENonFIRE said:
Personally, I don't see a huge problem with the economy. Granted I haven't been around as long as many of you, so all this is normal to me. But the point I'm trying to make is, the economy is fine as long as people are buying and selling on a regular basis and aren't having a tough time trying to afford items. Anyone play the Diablo games? Diablo 2 or now 3? Items once worth a thousand gold are now worth tens of millions. That is what I consider a broken economy. Where you have to play and struggle for weeks on end just to buy 1 item. We don't have that problem. Maybe the prices are fluctuating, but thats what an economy is for.
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Back in 1.8, I used to buy diamonds for 5s each.
 
Froggmann5 said:
Back in 1.8, I used to buy diamonds for 5s each.
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Right, my point exactly. Still affordable. Higher priced? Yea, but nothing out of reach. This isn't the real world here where we compete against other countries to make our silver worth more than their yen, dollars, or euros. Prices are going to go up and they are going to go down. In a few months time from now, I'd bet my own silver that prices are going to go back up. We have a problem when we can't afford anything. When only the rich who have been on the server for years can afford those diamonds.
 
The only problem I see with the economy is diamonds right now. I see them selling for 15 silver a stack when I used to buy them for 40 silver a stack when I joined the server. :S
 
When things are affordable, that's the sign of a good economy.

America has been suffering from a bad economy for the past 10 years or so. That's mainly because minimum wage no longer reflects the costs of living, and thus people can't spend outside of necessities, and thus people who make a living selling non-essentials are losing potential income. Of course if they have to raise the pay of their own employees without first inflating prices on their goods, then they would be losing even more money. It's why Welfare came about during the New Deal. Instead of the government giving directly to businesses, they gave them to the people needing govt deemed necessities, so that they could spend more money at small businesses -and- so that their employers could afford to keep them employed.


Now, after that very liberal view on economic history, let's take a look at minecraft. I'm seeing complaints that everything is so low value that everyone can afford to live comfortably, and it's hard for any one hard working individual to skyrocket financially over another.

Good.

When there were 100 diamonds for sale (altogether server-wide), they were rare and worth 5silver. When there are 10,000 diamonds for sale (An obvious exaggeration), they'll sell for about 5 copper. Everyone and their mother has them, so the Salesmen with the biggest bargain wins.

I'm assuming there isn't too much buying and reselling (playing the market) here. If you bought diamonds and hoarded them for a year, you would have lost money in a bad investment. However, if you dug these diamonds out yourself, you'll still have made a profit, even if it's miniscule compared to what you formerly earned.
 
Lol you people, the economy was based around ninjabavers bank prices, and also primitive prices from shops in alloria
 
There is no stable outflux of diamonds. Whatever measures admins take to decrease the diamond circulation is always counteracted by dupers and cheaters.

Fighting a booming market is like swimming upstream. The more you fight to stop it, the stronger the current becomes. If we make a method tomorrow to transfer diamonds into something valuable, the duping will only increase pushing the price down even further.
 
MonMarty said:
There is no stable outflux of diamonds. Whatever measures admins take to decrease the diamond circulation is always counteracted by dupers and cheaters.

Fighting a booming market is like swimming upstream. The more you fight to stop it, the stronger the current becomes. If we make a method tomorrow to transfer diamonds into something valuable, the duping will only increase pushing the price down even further.
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PLEASE don't take this the wrong way. I think the mods here do an absolutely superb job and I commend you all for it. But isn't their a way of tracing who is duping so you can ban these people? Obviously strict rules and regulations would prevent the idiots from being idiots.
 
STEVENonFIRE said:
PLEASE don't take this the wrong way. I think the mods here do an absolutely superb job and I commend you all for it. But isn't their a way of tracing who is duping so you can ban these people? Obviously strict rules and regulations would prevent the idiots from being idiots.
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I don't really think its entirely duping that brings the prices up. The other day, I took a stack of diamond ore that I mined, and used my Fortune III pick axe on it. I got around 2 1/2 stacks of diamonds.
 
We ban people for duping on a regular basis, most of the duping is found, but in most cases some amounts of duped products escapes onto the market. Sometimes a duper has a full day before we catch on to them so it's impossible to trace and ban a duper without them causing damage first. The damage is in fact usually how we discover them.
 
MonMarty said:
We ban people for duping on a regular basis, most of the duping is found, but in most cases some amounts of duped products escapes onto the market. Sometimes a duper has a full day before we catch on to them so it's impossible to trace and ban a duper without them causing damage first. The damage is in fact usually how we discover them.
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Indeed! Wasn't there also a glitch not too too long ago, where if you broke a diamond block it would sometimes drop around 50 more in return? This I believe also pertained to the price increase
 
I think everyone just needs to higher there prices in trade even if it is duped diamond or not!(hug)
 
i think we should all trade in dirt blocks.... that way everyone can be rich!
 
Its a common problem with large minecraft servers that comes from everyones ability to be self sufficient to such a large degree that trade becomes pointless.

Its not like the real world where only certain areas can grow crops, minerals are in large deposits often very seperate from each other and you have to trade in order to acquire certain goods.

Minecrafts system of infinte self support means that items become valueless as trade commodites, and only services have any value- but as the payment for service is based on a weak currency then even it is debased. - Example Batavia's shipyards. You can buy a quality piece of work, far beyond what most people are capable of - and people complain about 40s..

Another issue is that the supply of money is infinite, which means as time goes by it becomes worth even less due to inflation.

And yet another is the value of distance is negated by instant teleports, transport is time, and time is money. Without teleports you are more likely to pay more for goods that have travelled a long way, and sell cheaper for short travel distances that allow you to get back to work faster.


In my mind there is 2 ways to counter this. Currency must be based on a 'finite' in game object, say -gold- gold must be mined,- so it requires effort to obtain, is relatively rare so the market wont be oversaturated, and must be physically traded. And teleports need to be removed forcing people to interact with people in thier local area, establish mutual trade outposts, and actually create a supply and demand system.
Note that this is not saying make gold the currency, make it so the only way to acquire currency is to exchange gold.

Another possiblity is customising ore generation so ores span in vein clusters widely seperate so that you need to trade in order to get what you need. Iron for diamonds, coal for iron, etcetc. But its far too late for that level of world building.


Of course this is all moot, without a complete world and ecomomy reset it will still be completely screwed by the amount of money that some people allready have to saturate the market and instantly break it all over again.
 
i like the idea of vain mining im pretty sure there is summint out there like that, just making ores seperate and rarer in the worlds they create in future or editing them in such a way would increase trade :)
 
The economy isn't "broken". It's just... well, flawed. There is not a whole lot we could do about it, barring cutting out huge amounts of diamonds, which would cause the price of diamonds to go up, which would leave people without any money to spend on diamonds.

I remember when a stack of diamonds was worth 60 silver. Those days, 5 stacks of diamonds could buy you a faction. A lot of people's "end-game" on this server is to buy a faction, and run it. Now a days, with Diamonds running around .25 a silver, some even cheaper.. It takes many more stacks of diamonds.

Factions should be difficult to get. If you want people to work on the economy, we need to figure out a way to get people with large amounts of money to spend it.
 
Igel did at least. Then Thnm abused his spawn shop and Igel stopped. At least, that's what I've heard from Tax.
 
Well the economy definitely needs to change. I now see almost more players then I ever have with diamonds tools and swords. I did not have enough diamonds for tools and a sword for about 2 months after I started the server and it cost me almost all my money. I would like to see a time where you can't start the server and buy 2 stacks of diamonds before you leave the spawn. I would honestly be open to then disabling the trading of diamonds if that is even possible because that way it wouldn't matter how much money you started with you would still have to work for you diamonds. If they do this after a while they can then re-able the trading of diamonds and the price would hopefully go up.
 
I like vaelkyrie's suggestion, it would be neat to slowly transfer to a server like that. (We would keep f homes though)
 
Good god, another thread about the economy...

My ideas on it have never been listened to though, so Ima stay outta of this except to say "good god not again..."
 
So, this is another Lets-bitch-about-the-economy-even-though-no-one-will-do-anything-about-it thread? I have previously suggested that we burn ALL of our diamonds (an action that I have followed through with and destroyed 5 stacks of diamonds) and no one has taken my suggestion seriously. (I see their logic).
 
I am just saying that the only way you can balance out the economy of massivecraft is with a real face value law. I am not taking sides in this but if you said, "Diamonds are now .5 to 1 silver a piece or else you will be hanged." then you could have some sort of order comparing other things to the usefulness of the diamond. Aka What the gold standard used to be before the economy improved in the early 1900's.[DOUBLEPOST=1357958043][/DOUBLEPOST]I just read Vael's post and I completely agree. The only thing in minecraft with value is time because you can be completely self-sufficient. Also world generation like that would be amazing for RP, Lore, and factions. (You would set them up where a certain resource is.) Not to mention that the awesomeness of that realism and attacking enemy supply trains headed with for example, iron for Armour, and using that as a tactical advantage creating a middle age-ish siege would be worth all the silver in massivecraft.
 
I was sitting here thinking about the economy and what could help in terms of getting the prices higher and I started thinking that maybe instead of trying to get players to burn diamonds we could have an in-game event take place, where diamonds are used and/or given to the moderators role-playing in the event. Once the event is over the moderators then destroy whatever diamonds were collected. I'm not sure what kind of event it'd be yet, maybe something with prizes that are unobtainable by any other means (giving reason to spend diamonds) but I know we have some creative minds on the server that could come up with something. What do ya think?
 
Changing prices will not fix anything, will only make the people that owns alot of duplicated diamonds to get even richer. Worst thing is all players going around saying "i only have legit diamonds, i payed for them". But, if someone wants to sell there hard earned diamonds for 5 copper each, then they have not worked for it by digging it up, they just duplicated.

Only way, and yes, the ONLY way to fix it. Even if it is a temporary solution would be to destroy all diamonds in the world. Yes, i mean in every chest.
 

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