Diverge & Expand Suggestion

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Togal

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Ello govnas,

you may find the title a tad bit strange but hear me out. What I was thinking the other day of an Idea that may aid Massivecraft is some way. I know suggestions that are put up on the forums are viewed with a narrow point of view that could be unreasonable, like how the Pvper, Staff, Rper s may see something differently being either to difficult to execute, to costly and risky or uncomfortable to deal with so I and hopefully the rest of you will take this with a grain of salt.

Anyways back to the topic, the solution I was thinking about was to not improve, collide, reconstruct massivecraft. We have been trying to long to combine both Pvp and Rp faction aspects for too long when they don't fit that well. instead of doing so why not just separate them? The idea is to create two separate servers with different IP address, split the staff into two teams or hire new ones. Both servers would have the faction aspects, the only difference is that the RP server players will not be able to kill each other, instead claim land, have MCMMO stats that help them in either building or resources or even hunting down certain MOBS that have items they want (similar to dungeon raids). They will be free to RP in their own cities without constantly being raided. Pvpers will have the just the traditional ways of how factions is supposed to be, kill, build, gather resources, grind levels, rinse and repeat.

Heres the bit that sounds nasty, one has to leave. Nobody really wants to leave but if you think about it, it could be exciting. I got these very simple solution to offer.

1. PVP leaves to the new land of milk and honey: Pvpers will get to keep their MCMMO stats, and maybe a double chest of goods they can carry over to the next server. The advantage is that these players can be the basic first generation, they can guide newer players, worrying about them dominating the smaller factions wont be too much of an issue, they will be too busy competing with themselves to notice the smaller ones, throughout faction history there have been plenty of factions that popped out of no where and became main bodies of power, they will also fall giving way to newer ones.

2.RP leaves to the new land of milk and honey: Honestly I'm not an Rper, so sadly I can't provide too much insight and its likely to be inaccurate (please add any ideas to this one Rpers, I need your help on it). Anywho Rpers will get to keep Lores, Characters, certain buildings that are very popular to RP in.

Which one in my opinion should leave?
My answer is PvP, honestly its already dead, its less risky to move this over. It could spark a new interest in these players, I mean it isn't really that bad, and even if you lose the majority of your possessions you still have you MCMMO to help you gain back your resources. And to all the pvpers reading this thread, please provide insight if your comfortable starting anew.

What happens if it fails?
If it fails, it fails. The risk isn't that big in the first place. its just opening a new server, and if it tumbles into the dirt, they could always go back to the previous server, don't change anything about the previous server yet until the new one has been a success.

Anyways thank you for reading my pile of texts. Enjoy yourselves and don't be to hurt if Massive isn't as great as it used to be, its like the make America Great Again movement. You are viewing things through a nostalgic pair of binoculars. Maybe its just Minecraft that isn't as interesting as it used to be. Ciao ciao.
 
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If I'm understanding you correctly though, there would be nothing keeping the new server from divulging into your basic gross build faction server... If you remove the role-play aspect from factions you no longer have a reason to build magnificent cities or castles
 
If I'm understanding you correctly though, there would be nothing keeping the new server from divulging into your basic gross build faction server... If you remove the role-play aspect from factions you no longer have a reason to build magnificent cities or castles

Yup, There wouldn't be a reason. But who knows. Life if only so predictable, same goes with the game. Ty for your insight.
 
This is an idea I have as well. It boils down to that bridging the gap is not going to happen, the main foundation of this... philosophy, you could call. The difference between roleplayers and nonroleplayers (not strictly pvpers) is too big and the "game" they play is too different. It's like trying to get farmville players and call of duty players to come together and join up and try to make a game they both will enjoy. It just won't happen. This is an exaggeration perhaps, but my point still stands.

I can see factions becoming great if the focus is around some sort of roleplay, without any pvp at all, where people play some sort of real-time Crusader Kings 2 with diplomacy, administration, etc, all incorporated, possible because of roleplay.

Or, we could take the route where we focus on the pvp, where you can build an empire if you do well by pvping well, building empires full of regular survivalists to fuel the war machine.

But trying to find a middle ground... I don't think it will happen. It has been tried multiple times before without any success.
 
Splitting Massivecraft over two domains to me sounds like using twice as many resources for half the amount of players.

Yeah, RPers and Survivalists do different things. That's why there are different maps. Creating separate servers merely wastes time and creates two subpar servers.

The other issue this creates is the group of players that does hop between maps and does a bit of both. They get completely screwed if Factions and Roleplay are on different servers.

So sum up:
  • It splits an already smaller server group even smaller.
  • It requires creating a completely different server, which takes time and money that won't go into anything else.
  • Players that like to visit Faction worlds and Roleplay worlds immediately get screwed over due to having to swap IPs every time they want to travel.
  • It completely severs the community.
Despite the sentiment that bridging the gap will never happen, there are a lot of things that both sides share:
  • They share the same chats
  • They share the same Market
  • They share the Sharding system
  • They share the forums
  • They share the same discord
The point I'm trying to make is that Massivecraft provides choices for players to make. If they want to play Factions, they can. If they want to roleplay, they can.



Though, with all of this said, perhaps the best idea is maybe create a new map with all of these PvP aspects added into it, and make it separate inventory and/or money. I was planning to make my own suggestion on that point, but never knew how to present it (given my Survival gameplay is mostly just vanilla stuff)
 
Communities are already diverged. Roleplay Has S1, everyone else is on S2 to S8. They are already on different Ip's. You can just connect between them because of sharding.
 
Communities are already diverged. Roleplay Has S1, everyone else is on S2 to S8. They are already on different Ip's. You can just connect between them because of sharding.
I don't think anybody was bringing up the point about these communities being on different servers. It's about separating the gameplay in a way to make the experiences for both sides as enjoyable as possible.
 
I don't think anybody was bringing up the point about these communities being on different servers. It's about separating the gameplay in a way to make the experiences for both sides as enjoyable as possible.
I don't understand. Neither community has an impact on each other, unless the suggestion is a veiled suggestion to turn survival into a more HCF style gameplay, which even then, could be done without splitting roleplayers away. Changing the gameplay style in survival has no effect on roleplay and vice versa.
 
I don't understand. Neither community has an impact on each other, unless the suggestion is a veiled suggestion to turn survival into a more HCF style gameplay, which even then, could be done without splitting roleplayers away. Changing the gameplay style in survival has no effect on roleplay and vice versa.
I also don't completely understand they suggestion, but if I understand correctly they are saying remove the roleplay aspects from survival to make it more enjoyable... To that I say that the roleplay aspects that are still in survival are the only thing keeping massive unique from anybody else.
 
I don't think anybody was bringing up the point about these communities being on different servers. It's about separating the gameplay in a way to make the experiences for both sides as enjoyable as possible.
Survival has zero impact on roleplay, unless you count lore which is a good thing for the server overall.
 
This is an idea I have as well. It boils down to that bridging the gap is not going to happen, the main foundation of this... philosophy, you could call. The difference between roleplayers and nonroleplayers (not strictly pvpers) is too big and the "game" they play is too different. It's like trying to get farmville players and call of duty players to come together and join up and try to make a game they both will enjoy. It just won't happen. This is an exaggeration perhaps, but my point still stands.

I can see factions becoming great if the focus is around some sort of roleplay, without any pvp at all, where people play some sort of real-time Crusader Kings 2 with diplomacy, administration, etc, all incorporated, possible because of roleplay.

Or, we could take the route where we focus on the pvp, where you can build an empire if you do well by pvping well, building empires full of regular survivalists to fuel the war machine.

But trying to find a middle ground... I don't think it will happen. It has been tried multiple times before without any success.
Crisis of Kings gives us the best possibility of that bridge forming. Giving up, however, doesn't. Canoncised players ARE known to roleplayers, I've experienced it myself when being in the tavern and having people talk to me solely because of my Great House.
 
Splitting Massivecraft over two domains to me sounds like using twice as many resources for half the amount of players.

Yeah, RPers and Survivalists do different things. That's why there are different maps. Creating separate servers merely wastes time and creates two subpar servers.

The other issue this creates is the group of players that does hop between maps and does a bit of both. They get completely screwed if Factions and Roleplay are on different servers.

So sum up:
  • It splits an already smaller server group even smaller.
  • It requires creating a completely different server, which takes time and money that won't go into anything else.
  • Players that like to visit Faction worlds and Roleplay worlds immediately get screwed over due to having to swap IPs every time they want to travel.
  • It completely severs the community.
Despite the sentiment that bridging the gap will never happen, there are a lot of things that both sides share:
  • They share the same chats
  • They share the same Market
  • They share the Sharding system
  • They share the forums
  • They share the same discord
The point I'm trying to make is that Massivecraft provides choices for players to make. If they want to play Factions, they can. If they want to roleplay, they can.



Though, with all of this said, perhaps the best idea is maybe create a new map with all of these PvP aspects added into it, and make it separate inventory and/or money. I was planning to make my own suggestion on that point, but never knew how to present it (given my Survival gameplay is mostly just vanilla stuff)

Massive could just copy over mcstats over to the next server just once, they have done this before while testing. Once its been copied over and if theres change such as leveling up it will not effect the previous server, e.g you level up on the new server, it will not level anything on massive. As for the economy like in almost every game will be set by the players, therefore the staff will not have to spend to much time monitoring this. I also did mention that Massivecraft should not change at all unless everyone is comfortable enough to do so. Its just opening up a new server. I also know cost is a major reason why this idea isn't like that much, however its good to take risks, humans, businesses and even games do it.
 
I agree with Winterless. When I sporadically roleplay in Regalia, I actually have never been turned away when I mention Enigma. I don't come into Regalia and go "Oh I am a Hadarian noble, bow down", because I understand roleplayers don't want some arrogant survivalist coming into the tavern and being all high falutin. I've actually been, mistakenly, called the "Chancellor of Enigma", which I never requested but some roleplayers seem to be interested. Reference Hadar in RP, I encourage it, but remain humble!

In regards to a server wipe, my current opinion is no because I would never be in favour of a wipe unless we had near unanimity among the community on a wipe. In regards to running a server separated from the other survival worlds, we would need to wait for a new survival world to be worked on for that to even be feasible.
 
Only positives I see from this are a mini-reset of the factions worlds and that it could be hosted on 1.8.9 instead of the newer versions, which could potentially be pretty neat
 
Only positives I see from this are a mini-reset of the factions worlds and that it could be hosted on 1.8.9 instead of the newer versions, which could potentially be pretty neat
I've consulted with Tech staff about this and due to limitations and the messiness of 1.8.9 with the server technology, that would not be feasible, sadly. This was also discussed many months ago and the same response was given by the Tech Department about switching the faction worlds to 1.8 and running them with forward compatibility instead of 1.12 and backwards compatibility.
 
I've consulted with Tech staff about this and due to limitations and the messiness of 1.8.9 with the server technology, that would not be feasible, sadly. This was also discussed many months ago and the same response was given by the Tech Department about switching the faction worlds to 1.8 and running them with forward compatibility instead of 1.12 and backwards compatibility.
Even if it was hosted on a completely different server so sharding wasn't an issue?

Get better technology then
 
Even if it was hosted on a completely different server so sharding wasn't an issue?

Get better technology then
If we were to make a completely different server, it would be under a different IP, everything most likely. I will ask @TheComputerGeek2 to give some insight into this.

Also getting "better technology", as easy as it sounds, sadly it just isn't.
 
Even if it was hosted on a completely different server so sharding wasn't an issue?

Get better technology then
You can't just have a new program that was designed for Windows 10 and say "Ya know what.. I want to use this program on Windows XP regardless of the fact that it can't be done because the program is too new and that version is so old."
 
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If we were to make a completely different server, it would be under a different IP, everything most likely.
I think that's kinda what the suggestion is
Lol that's not had technology works. You can't just have a new program that was designed for Windows 10 and say "Ya know what.. I want to use this program on Windows XP regardless of the fact that it can't be done because the program is too new and that version is so old."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we already have plugins versions for below 1.12? Your analogy doesn't seem to make much sense in this scenario, or to me at least.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we already have plugins versions for below 1.12? Your analogy doesn't seem to make much sense in this scenario, or to me at least.
Sure there are older versions of some plugins, but not all of them. And most of them aren't stable and really shouldn't be used anymore. on top of that the current server runs only 1.12.2 and use a different plugin to allow people with earlier versions to connect. You would have to make that server completely 1.8 and I'm sure you can agree that the amount of people who would actually use it wouldn't really justify making a whole new server
 
Sure there are older versions of some plugins, but not all of them. And most of them aren't stable and really shouldn't be used anymore. on top of that the current server runs only 1.12.2 and use a different plugin to allow people with earlier versions to connect. You would have to make that server completely 1.8 and I'm sure you can agree that the amount of people who would actually use it wouldn't really justify making a whole new server
If you could just lead with the useful information next time that would be appreciated.
But yeah you're right, as the minecraft community has shown us servers like Hypixel, Velt etc who are 1.8/1.7 and forward instead of 1.12 and backward garner little to no support.
 
If you could just lead with the useful information next time that would be appreciated.
But yeah you're right, as the minecraft community has shown us servers like Hypixel, Velt etc who are 1.8/1.7 and forward instead of 1.12 and backward garner little to no support.
Hypixel is 1.12 and backward bb. And Velt is a PVP only server so that would make sense that it's based at 1.8
 
Would hypix be 1.8+ cause they host many plugins and all. Heck massive cant even keep up with the 2 nonmassive plugins.
 
Also has thousands of players on at time but yeah just a dumb PvP server
I never said it was dumb nor did i imply it? I was simply saying that since Velt is a PVP server it would make sense that theyre in 1.8 because thats what PVP players want. I never said it was a bad decision.

Regardless, I'll go ahead and stop replying here. I've made my point.
 
btw @Viscar if you want people to take your suggestions seriously, posting insults on Discord about me and asking others to blindly back you up because "Zacatero will continue to be annoying" isnt really a good way to go.

Regardless, I'll go ahead and stop replying here. I've made my point.
You said something that wasn't true and I asked if anyone who knew anything about it could help prove my point because, as I said, what you said just wasn't true and I doubt me just saying stuff alone would change your thoughts.

But damn you really exposed me here and hereby destroyed all my points, thanks for your always welcomed insight
 
I would ask this thread stay on topic and players to please voice their opinions on this suggestion. Keep it on track and not aggressive
 
I've consulted with Tech staff about this and due to limitations and the messiness of 1.8.9 with the server technology, that would not be feasible, sadly. This was also discussed many months ago and the same response was given by the Tech Department about switching the faction worlds to 1.8 and running them with forward compatibility instead of 1.12 and backwards compatibility.

This is the type of thing which I would personally consider to be tech hell. As already mentioned in this thread, getting external plugins which will run smoothly and predictably on the latest versions of Minecraft is annoying as it is (cc koth >.>). It becomes even worse when then limiting our search to plugins not using the latest spigot api tools. And then we run into consistency issues for those using the plugins, aka players and staff. This just slows down the ability of everyone to function normally.

I think that's kinda what the suggestion is Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we already have plugins versions for below 1.12? Your analogy doesn't seem to make much sense in this scenario, or to me at least.

Oh, absolutely, we can get versions made for older versions of Minecraft, but there is a reason for plugin updates in most cases other than just spigot api changes. A big one being bug fixes, so this proposal would mean going back to more limited versions of plugins, potentially introducing more bugs, and then it's incredibly difficult to get support for older versions of plugins.

In short here is the typical case with external plugins: you get a buggy, potentially laggy version of the plugin. You get no new features, no bug fixes.

And speaking from personal experience, it is extremely disappointing when someone asks me for support on a version of a plugin over a year old, like what do you think the updates have been for?
 
If hypixel is running 1.12 and backward how come they can run 10.000+ players without any potion lag, hit delay etc..? If thats the case massive is doing something seriously wrong, js
 
This would essentially be splitting the chats and making a non-pvp towny-style server. Honestly it would be better just to give Roleplayers a small no-pvp smp island world they can build on.
 
As far as I can see, post 1.9 PvP is a blight on humanity and should never have existed in the first place.
 
Reading the twitter comments makes me sad tbh, they literally have no clue how to PvP and don't even recognise the fact that every active server is 1.8 pvp. All that needs to happen is a dev created gamerule that ACTUALLY fixes issues like potlag, inventories, and hitreg instead of a bandaid
 
1. I'm getting a feeling that massive restore has ruined the value of blocks/diamonds and massive market as well that donation armor4all. Massive restore is great for cleaning the worlds up from grief but it effected the value of blocks because they used to respawn back in every month.

2. In my opinion i'd love a fresh start for everyone so that we can bring back regal's value, block value, mineral value. If we introduce a new world when 1.13 comes out maybe we can introduce a new regal system for that world, and keep all items that are obtained in that world only. I feel that if we something similar to this rolling we can bring back a ton of players who want a fresh start and new players.

3. The bad thing about this idea that it is a split. A split between old world players and new world players.
Please respond to my post. Whether its hating my idea or liking it. I just want to get my idea out there.