By MonMarty on Oct 22, 2017 at 2:41 PM
  1. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotsune Miku Staff Member Server Owner

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    In lieu of taking charge of Massive's Factions Survival, the second round of changes. This is sort of a comprehensive list of things that have already been done, why they were done, and in what context they were done with future implementations in mind.
    • The rolling on the Crate4All timer has been changed from 10 to 2
      • to make rolling feel less like a chore when the server TPS in Regalia is lower.
    • /fix has been removed from the server.
      • Same reasoning as the item below.
    • /disenchant has been removed from the server.
      • We are of the opinion that the enchant market is completely dead because it is too easy to remove enchants from items and put them on others. With the removal of /disenchant, we hope to stimulate the enchant market by making specific enchants more difficult to acquire, in tandem with the 1.8 Enchantment mechanic.
    • Arcane Forging has been removed from MCMMO
      • Similarly to the above, spending just a few diamonds at high level to repair expensive gear is considered a waste of market potential, while also making it so no armor will ever break. We want armor to break, and we want armor to become a valuable commodity in the market again, so in connection with /disenchant and others, the value of god gear should increase.
    • Arcane Salvage has been removed from MCMMO
      • Same reasoning for /disenchant. Regular MCMMO Salvage is still a thing.
    • Elytras are disabled in Faction Survival Worlds
      • Elytras as much as they may give an advantage to viewing bases, made escaping mid-PVP too easy.
      • Elytras are still enabled in Regalia.
    • Bows now fire at target instead of the RNG from the Combat Update
      • Arrows used to fire within a certain range of the reticule of the player instead of dead center on it. All arrows from bows should now fire directly where the player is aiming instead of making the trajectory wobble based on RNG.
    • Brewing Stands no longer need Blaze Powder to function
      • The combat update made brewing cumbersome. We've returned the feature to 1.8 functionality.
    • Manual Craft bench Potion Crafting has been disabled
      • With the old Brewing mechanics restored, we want to prevent mass production of potions through the crafting bench, so that the Brewing Stand is now the only means of producing potions.
    • Moderator Punishments are now visible.
      • We want to be more transparent to the players, so we have re-enabled that players are able to see who punished what player on /seen.

     
    • Thank You! x 6
    • Like x 5
    • Winner x 5
    • Agree x 3
    • Informative x 1
    #1 MonMarty, Oct 22, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017

Comments

Discussion in 'Server News and Announcements' started by MonMarty, Oct 22, 2017.

    1. Spekster
      Spekster
      Interesting... The only question I have is how many rounds of changes are there? :P Very interested to see where this goes.
    2. MonMarty
      MonMarty
      As many as are needed for us to revive Factions fully and make sure everyone knows that we care.
    3. Spekster
      Spekster
      Which is something I am really excited and hopeful for.
    4. Ninja124r
      Ninja124r
      Kinda sad to see Elytra go and watching TheLoneShephard fly around Solarian saying he's a vulture and escaping the warriors
    5. Maytee
      Maytee
      Great job! :)

      I love all of the changes so far!
    6. ZiHAMMER
      ZiHAMMER
      Potmachines are now back from ded?
    7. spectec
      spectec
      These are very good points. I agree with @VANBROWN for the most part. Different perspectives and opinions are going to be needed. I personally don't think it's going to be very easy to make these decisions unless you're personally time invested in Factions.

      However, I don't really think there is any use for players to panic about changes. From what it seems, @MonMarty 's objective is to keep doing what is necessary until things are satisfactory for the perspective of new players, loyal players, and their play styles. I think the route he takes is only mildly limited; due to some mechanical changes. I can assure you that if making factions better is what Marty plans to do, then he'll figure out how to do that. Realistically, who has put more time and effort into the server than him? I mean.. I don't RP, but he's spear headed building an environment that's far beyond most of the games I've ever played.

      The opinions really need to be flowing in at this point. I wish there was a more streamlined process to do that. Like an in game suggestion plugin or something.
    8. Viscar
      Viscar
      Hey this is really neat
    9. Typhenon
      Typhenon
      When you didn't even realize /disenchant was a thing but it's already too late
    10. 65jes89
      65jes89
      Respectfully:
      This is a mistake. Now, I’ve been a huge advocate towards the nerfing of arcane forging, and entirely agree with the opinion that there is way too much god armor.

      This, however, is quite literally going from 100 to 0 in what is frankly much too short of a time period.

      It is extremely difficult to repair armor in vanilla survival. This is because vanilla isn’t balanced for pvp; it’s balanced for pve. On massive, however, it’s even worse due to mcmmo axes, which enable me to smash someone’s armor in a 2 minute fight with my 3.something thousand axes. This means you have to fully repair a set after literally every fight. This takes quite a long time using vanilla mechanics, and gets harder each successive time due to how anvil repairing works.

      I’d like to remind you that this more or less exact thing happened when we first moved to 1.9, most of which I advocated for. I was right on a lot of things with 1.9, but I’ll readily admit that I was completely, 100% wrong in terms of armor and repair balancing. In the couple weeks after 1.9 before armor was buffed/axe damage was nerfed (I forget which) and arcane forging was enabled, I found myself running out of armor and spending most of my time on massive repairing armor. At this time, I had just gotten rid of my first rich shop and had well over 80 sets of god armor. And I was struggling to provide myself enough to pvp regularly. I don’t envy any new pvpers who tried to start during this period.

      This is the exact same thing, and it is going to affect pvp detrimentally. That being said, this is the right idea, and I sincerely appreciate the good intentions behind this action. It’s just too much in too short a time.

      The way I see it, there are two plausible paths that can really be taken to achieve the same effect without causing significant damage to the amount of time pvpers can spend pvping:

      1) Just re-enable arcane forging, but severely nerfed. I’ve generally thrown out 80% in the past, but really anywhere above 50% would achieve the same effect. Also, lower the amount of durability you get back per diamond. Frankly, I think it’s futile to attempt to fix the diamond market due to the sheer amount of them in the economy, but it’s worth a shot if you want to go for it. The AF nerf would lead to a large amount of god armor leaving the economy, and quickly, but at a slightly more manageable rate, so that we can slap on a protection 3 book instead of having to create a full new set of god armor.

      2) Take the full-on hardcore factions approach. It seems to me that this is what was attempted with these changes, but there were a few things missed with this, that will cause it to fail. Namely, the ease at which experience is gained. If you want this to work without buffing repair back to where it was, we need spawners and a looting experience plugin. Just disable massive mobs in all worlds but hyarroc. Using MassiveMagic crafting, create spawning recipes for most of the normal mobs (I.e. not endermen/blazes as their drops are worth something). I’d suggest beacons around a mob head, but doesn’t really matter. Just something that is achievable within 20-30 hours of playtime for a brand new player without help from an established player. Keep in mind that an end or some alternative means of farming pearls would need to be added with the disabling of massive mobs. With the addition of spawners, a plug-in which increases the amount of experience dropped when mobs are killed with a weapon with looting would be needed, as well as a mob stacking plugin to prevent lag (looting is a relatively easy one to write; id highly suggest an in-house plugin for mob stacking, as most I’ve seen are pretty buggy). With the removal of massive mobs and subsequent nullification of dark rooms, mcmmo needs to be disabled for combat traits, else it will be impossible for new players to get into pvp.

      Note that all of this would need to be done within a week or two of each other; this isn’t really something that can wait a month.

      Again, I greatly appreciate what you’re doing for the factions community.
    11. 65jes89
      65jes89
      If this is being done, we’re really going to need a world with vanilla hopper mechanics; it is simply too much work to completely manually brew enough potions for an entire faction. I honestly don’t really understand the intent behind this change, however, as I don’t really see a potion economy ever becoming viable, and the crafting recipes used the same ingredients as the brewing recipes. This is all fine if we get full auto potion machines back, though.
    12. Maytee
      Maytee
      I'm fully behind you on the changes in pt. 1, but I really really don't want to see spawners on MassiveCraft. It breaks immersion, and I feel that not having spawners is a unique part of MassiveCraft in that every other Factions server out there has them. As for McMMO in PvP, it really needs to be changed or removed, close 1v1's shouldn't be determined by random McMMO critical strikes.

      If Arcane Forging is re-enabled I think it's success rate should be at most 70%. It's important we stabilize the enchantment economy, and I'll admit I'm not really sure how to do this, but I feel that the first steps should be to remove the excess enchantment books that are in the faction worlds.

      IMO I don't think that Darkrooms need to be nullified completely, an easier fix to the grind problem would be to make McMMO leveling easier, Darkrooms also require a decent amount of upkeep which I think is important to keep.
      Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
    13. Jalapeno690
      Jalapeno690
      His propaganda is legendary, he will never be replaced
    14. Proudbucket
      Proudbucket
      Why not just disable Armor impact from mcmmo as well?
    15. jchobbs951
      jchobbs951
      My entire base was built and is being built on the fact that you can fly around with elytra to get around it... with the size of what i am building it is more work to use scaffolding than to just build it... Elytra is fastest way to get around to build locations as well as to view what is being built from another location with out having to BUILD 100 BLOCK PILLARS EVERYWHERE. And as a builder who is complete crap at pvp and rarely pvps and just tries to build, i always have elytra on so of course i am going to quickly pop a rocket and fly away, not like i can just throw my tools into my bp when attacked.
    16. jchobbs951
      jchobbs951
      Not everyone has their repair skill up to a skill high enough to repair their tools, weapons, and armor. /fix was easiest and fastest way to repair damaged equipment. In the past there was a problem with giving equipment to people to use their repair skill on it then not getting their stuff back. that is what most people will now have to worry about, the only ones with high repair skill are almost entirely just the PvPers, this set of updates helps PvPers a lot but not the rest of the players on the server, myself being one of those not considered a PvPer
    17. trapzor
      trapzor
      Agreed - this kind of overkill over-correction is exactly what I warned about in the other thread. Nerfing enchanting, eliminating fix, eliminating mcmmo repair - any one of those would have a huge impact on the god armor supply over time. So make one change and see how it goes, and then if needed, make more changes. The new equilibrium that this creates is that if you want to pvp, you're going to actually need to spend all your time in a darkroom crafting armor, and at a fairly slow rate, because just fighting in the darkroom will wear your armor down as well.
    18. Zacatero
      Zacatero
      I think that it's needed
    19. 65jes89
      65jes89
      I’m all for it, but I don’t think that is enough by itself.
    20. trapzor
      trapzor
      That's fine in my opinion, and it has two clear effects: (1) it encourages people to band together in factions where at least 1 person has mcmmo repair maxed out and (2) it creates an economy based around repair, so that people can buy/sell repairs in trade chat.
    21. 65jes89
      65jes89
      If you don’t pvp you really shouldn’t be using enough durability that it’s that big of a deal for you to repair a tool by darkrooming every once in a while.
    22. trapzor
      trapzor
      This fix is not really narrowly tailored to the problem. If the problem is people escaping pvp too easily, just disable elytra when people are pvp-flagged. If you want to attack a target and are worried they'll fly away, shoot them with an arrow first, then attack. Problem solved, and then it keeps elytra for survival players. This also makes it so that wearing elytra is a significant risk: if you get flagged, for example by an arrow, not only can you not fly away to escape, but now you're stuck on the ground with less than full god armor.
    23. trapzor
      trapzor
      Except arcane forging (repair with a chance to keep enchants) has also been removed, so it's still the case that no one will seek to repair enchanted gear.
    24. Zacatero
      Zacatero
      I think that message is being misconstrued, you cannot move an enchantment from one thing to another. But if you enchant something on an enchanting table and you do not get the results you want, you could simply /disenchant and try again. And by removing the disenchantment feature, you either have to deal with the enchantments you don't want or get rid of the item altogether
    25. Boogjangels
      Boogjangels
      Not too keen on the elytra removal, but I guess I can live without it if you really think it'll help. Other than that... good stuff my dude!
    26. Metallum_
      Metallum_
      Goodbye factions
    27. Ninja124r
      Ninja124r
      Billion dollar idea: Elytra pvp-flagged



      BoOOM
    28. trapzor
      trapzor
      There's no point to removing Arcane Salvage. It already had a 1% chance of getting an enchanted book. That means you would need to destroy around 100 Prot IV armor pieces to get a single Prot IV book, and there's a chance that it would actually have the tier downgrade to Prot III or lower. So Arcane salvage was already effectively unusable to make enchanted gear. I guess it makes no difference either way.

      With Arcane Forging, and Fix both removed, I would strongly suggest removing vanilla repair cost increases when vanilla repairing on an anvil. This means it will still be time consuming and expensive to repair armor, but it means Lore items would actually be usable. As it is now, if you have a lore item like a Koth reward, you can't use it without losing it, since the repair costs will quickly become too expensive. So this means all lore items are effectively "you use it, you lose it", and this goes for quest rewards, koth rewards, voting rewards, etc.
    29. Notepad95
      Notepad95
      Welp, goodbye Massivecraft. Elytra was the only thing keeping me here.
    30. Zacatero
      Zacatero
      Lol i love elytras and I'm still fine with the change
    31. Rubarberry
      Rubarberry
      OHH that makes sense. Yea I don't do a lot of enchanting, if you can't tell by now. Thanks.
    32. Sir_Daragon
      Sir_Daragon
      @MonMarty i feel like the new changes are bs. People worked and pay for those. But are now useless.
    33. MonMarty
      MonMarty
      What did they pay for exactly?
    34. Sir_Daragon
      Sir_Daragon
      At the rate changes are going yall might as well go back to pre EULA. make premium OP and nonprem scrubs. and by payed i mean /disenchant. its a great thing. and now without public input i see all those changes happen. i hope you arent takign insperation from trump.
    35. Sir_Daragon
      Sir_Daragon
      as i said before. it seems like the new FACTION changes are HIGHLY liked by PVPers. and now use regualr faction players are getting FUKCED by the things. what is hte point of a factio nserver if you can do nothing faction wise. eitehr pvp or rp.
    36. Sir_Daragon
      Sir_Daragon
      massivecraft is changing to survive, but those changes are gonna kill it.
    37. Magivore
      Magivore
      While it's not really my place to comment on a PvP-Factions focused thread, MassiveCraft followed the EULA because of an actual legal threat to close down the server if it did not abide by those rules. Politics also have nothing to do with a Minecraft server trying to please its players.

      So I don't derail: perhaps a PvP-flagged Elytra might be the way to go rather than disabling it entirely on factions, as recommended by others? It still uses a bunch of diamonds to make (and now doesn't have /fix to defend it), which might continue to chip away at the practically limitless amount of diamond on the server. Just my two cents!
    38. Xeyri
      Xeyri
      They’re aren’t going to kill it. Players are only getting alarmed at changes that target their comfort. Minecraft is about gaining materials, acquiring experience and building up your storage of items. If you sit in a base all day, buying things with regale, never doing anything to acquire it, what’s the point in even playing ? (Not to all players, i know some of you get your own items.)
    39. MonMarty
      MonMarty
      I don't understand. /disenchant was a non-Premium feature and we aren't adding any features to premiums, just removing features everyone has access to.

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