Combat Roleplay Masters

[DrDrago]

Okay hear me out, lots of people on the server find it very hard to CRP because it always ends up in an argument of how it will work or how deep would the weapon go and do how much damage, I propose the idea for events you can hire a CRPM or Combat roleplay master. The idea is based on DnD on how the DM tells you what happens after you do a roll, My idea is for event combat roleplay, for now, where you can hire a CRPM for duels and such to make it a fair fight with them telling you what happens.

I haven't trialed this idea yet, but I would say for this to work it would need someone outside of a friend group to do it or someone who can not favor someone and to also have both fighters character apps in hand.

I would say they would roll for who has the first turn in the first roll, whoever rolls higher goes first and then carry on from there by the CRPM and he would emote the damage and such

Please discuss your thoughts below

 

[Suzzie]

I disagree. I feel like rolling is enough for this kind of thing, as after all, it's either you win or lose the roll. There will always be sour feelings (nobody wants to lose), but the best way to go in terms of the success level is to gauge how big the gap was in a roll. A 4 vs 17 for example, the four failed miserably.

 

[DrDrago]

I disagree. I feel like rolling is enough for this kind of thing, as after all, it's either you win or lose the roll. There will always be sour feelings (nobody wants to lose), but the best way to go in terms of the success level is to gauge how big the gap was in a roll. A 4 vs 17 for example, the four failed miserably.

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I agree on the idea on the gap roll but for example, a champion fights a student what advantage do they get or a strongman fights an athletic in an action of strength or speed, I am just thinking of ways to make it fairer to the character sheets

 

[Suzzie]

I agree on the idea on the gap roll but for example, a champion fights a student what advantage do they get or a strongman fights an athletic in an action of strength or speed, I am just thinking of ways to make it fairer to the character sheets

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Players should understand what is fair. In an event, rolls should (and I imagine they would be) scaled to make for a balanced system. A student will have a lower range, for example. A strongman shouldn't be attempting anything speedy, and an athletic person is weaker, so they would have handicaps as well.

 

[Reaganism]

We had this system in the dueling league while it lasted and it worked out fairly well. An additional character/person present to provide judgement from an unbiased perspective.

 

[DrDrago]

Players should understand what is fair. In an event, rolls should (and I imagine they would be) scaled to make for a balanced system. A student will have a lower range, for example. A strongman shouldn't be attempting anything speedy, and an athletic person is weaker, so they would have handicaps as well.

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Players should understand but no one ever does, for example, not many people know all the schools and how they would work and also when you CRP a lot of people fight to win not to properly roleplay it out.

 

[Hexanone]

Whilst the idea is good in theory, we don't know if anyone would want to be a CRPM, nor do we know that said CRPM is competent. A lot of combat schools are very open for interpretation on their usage, and to my personal experience, almost everyone will have a different opinion of how a school should work.

People doing the CRP can also argue with the decisions of said CRPM'S, thus the issue of argument isn't settled.

Rolling systems are frowned upon by a fair portion of the community, speaking from personal experience, possibly definite modifications to the existing roll system can be made. For example;

Strongman and Average builds have an armwrestle,
Strongman rolls 20, and adds 10 to result
Average rolls 20, adds 0.

And for speed, Strongman would roll 20 and subtract 10.

I've seen such modifications used in things to do with the old magic system, a one-handed mage had to roll, and add or subtract as they would.

This got a little off-topic, but it's my two cents.

 

[DrDrago]

Whilst the idea is good in theory, we don't know if anyone would want to be a CRPM, nor do we know that said CRPM is competent. A lot of combat schools are very open for interpretation on their usage, and to my personal experience, almost everyone will have a different opinion of how a school should work.

People doing the CRP can also argue with the decisions of said CRPM'S, thus the issue of argument isn't settled.

Rolling systems are frowned upon by a fair portion of the community, speaking from personal experience, possibly definite modifications to the existing roll system can be made. For example;

Strongman and Average builds have an armwrestle,
Strongman rolls 20, and adds 10 to result
Average rolls 20, adds 0.

And for speed, Strongman would roll 20 and subtract 10.

I've seen such modifications used in things to do with the old magic system, a one-handed mage had to roll, and add or subtract as they would.

This got a little off-topic, but it's my two cents.

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The seems like a good concept of adding disadvantages and advantages to class and build rolls and would be a fun way to make that work without there being unfairness

 

[Reaganism]

Players should understand what is fair. In an event, rolls should (and I imagine they would be) scaled to make for a balanced system. A student will have a lower range, for example. A strongman shouldn't be attempting anything speedy, and an athletic person is weaker, so they would have handicaps as well.

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Rolls have the inherent issue of:

1. Not counting for differences between characters
2. Enforcing victory and defeat, and not giving way for a tie

 

[FireFan96]

Of any CRP session I've done, I've either drawn or lost. Winning isn't everything. CRP is just like any other sort of RP. Keep it entertaining and enjoyable for everyone. With that said, I very rarely use the roll feature. Maybe I just have poor experiences with rolls.
I usually try and give as much information about my character's movements as possible, because logically the opponent should be able to pick up on these things. I then take any of my opponent's moves, and apply my weaknesses and emote accordingly.

My last CRP was with @MugKing and it was a Virdian vs a Drixon. It ended up going to a stalemate because one could take the hits while the other could dodge effectively. It was enjoyable to not have to roll, and we both just went with the flow until it started going on forever and we just ended it.

 

[Posidem]

Rolls have the inherent issue of:

1. Not counting for differences between characters
2. Enforcing victory and defeat, and not giving way for a tie

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i prefer rolls tbh and try to use them as often as possible. if both combatants have approved sheets, use their skills/talents/weakness section to add modifiers to the rolls. +5 for an expert/champion - scaling down per level, +2 for talents, -3 for weaknesses, etc

 

[Reaganism]

i prefer rolls tbh and try to use them as often as possible. if both combatants have approved sheets, use their skills/talents/weakness section to add modifiers to the rolls. +5 for an expert/champion - scaling down per level, +2 for talents, -3 for weaknesses, etc

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That results in OOC arguments happening prior to the combat about modifiers, and not during combat about rolls and unfairness.

 

[GRIST_]

Personally, I think rolls is a good idea when someone who isn't skilled at something does something. For example, throwing a rock at a person from a good bit away or handling a weapon you've never handled before. I think a good understand in CRP comes from both the players understanding that you can't do crazy anime shit in a fight. Another good point as FireFan said before is that Winning isn't everything. Do what helps make good future rp for both you and the other person, even if that is letting them win. Also keep in mind your characters restrictions and skills. I see too often that people who are trained in one school say Turall or something know automatically how to use say a bow, which makes no sense. Thinking of how a normal fight and plan your moves out in a way that makes sense. Hence why I don't think it's needed to hire anyone to watch, it makes simple fights more time-consuming. If you and the person you are fighting have a good understanding how to do normal combat it should be fine.

 

[AtticCat]

Players should understand but no one ever does, for example, not many people know all the schools and how they would work and also when you CRP a lot of people fight to win not to properly roleplay it out.

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Actually, generally people understand or you can just explain it to them OOC. There's nothing wrong with teaching people. So saying "no one ever does" is blatantly wrong lol. A good roleplayer is one that can accept loss.

 

[Posidem]

That results in OOC arguments happening prior to the combat about modifiers, and not during combat about rolls and unfairness.

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but i don't see how it would? the applications are either approved or not, meaning they've been given the go-ahead by staff. it's not about fair or not; it's just fact that character x is an expert in school y so therefore gets a positive modifier when making rolls relating to that skill/school. it's like a dumbed down D&D

 

[Reaganism]

but i don't see how it would? the applications are either approved or not, meaning they've been given the go-ahead by staff. it's not about fair or not; it's just fact that character x is an expert in school y so therefore gets a positive modifier when making rolls relating to that skill/school. it's like a dumbed down D&D

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A champion Griffer and a warrior Turall fight. What bonuses are there?

 

[Posidem]

A champion Griffer and a warrior Turall fight. What bonuses are there?

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+5 to the griffer and +3 or 4 (whatever the appropriate number would be can't remember). i also cant remember if one or the other works "better" per se against the other, but in cases like blackmark vs hitlock for example where hitlock is specifically said to have an advantage over blackmark; have them roll with advantage. in d&d this means allowing them to roll two d20s and taking the higher roll of the two. same would go for disadvantage, have them roll twice and take the lower roll of the two.

 

[Reaganism]

+5 to the griffer and +3 or 4 (whatever the appropriate number would be can't remember). i also cant remember if one or the other works "better" per se against the other, but in cases like blackmark vs hitlock for example where hitlock is specifically said to have an advantage over blackmark; have them roll with advantage. in d&d this means allowing them to roll two d20s and taking the higher roll of the two. same would go for disadvantage, have them roll twice and take the lower roll of the two.

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Griffer page quotes they aren't effective against Turall. The point of my question was how does two people, who'd normally argue about rolls or combat in OOC chat, agree on, let's say, +3 for the champion griffer and +5 for the turall. Or +3 for each. Or your numbers.

 

[Wumpatron]

For CRP you need competence and reliance on the other party to convey a narrative. I personally detest rolls because I understand every combat school front and back. I know what they will do in a fight and what their strengths and weaknesses are. But rarely do I see people utilizing the skills for the school listed on the wiki article so it becomes a muddied fight between what you think you should be able to do with the combat school versus what the training would actually have been. So in that sense a role system with modifiers just doesn't make sense when there are multiple factors for one school being better than another. For example, while they use a heavy shield, people forget that Blackmarks are also trained in boxing. There are nuances that exist on each page that often go overlooked for the sake of cool weapons and skills.

But for the sake of the OP, I would be able to be a "CRPM" from time to time.

 

[DrDrago]

Griffer page quotes they aren't effective against Turall. The point of my question was how does two people, who'd normally argue about rolls or combat in OOC chat, agree on, let's say, +3 for the champion griffer and +5 for the turall. Or +3 for each. Or your numbers.

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You give guidance to the people for example with MPM there is a page on what the scales should be to help people out I don't agree with enforcing people to change to this new system I think for people who do not talk to each other and don't RP, in general, with each other this would be a good way to make it fair as unless you can talk to them you never are able to fully explain what you are doing or that it takes forever to write one emote

 

[DrDrago]

Actually, generally people understand or you can just explain it to them OOC. There's nothing wrong with teaching people. So saying "no one ever does" is blatantly wrong lol. A good roleplayer is one that can accept loss.

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Maybe saying "No one ever does" was a big exaggeration but the idea behind it is not everyone is a good roleplayer and this would be a more inviting way for new people to join the server and get involved with CRP which lots of people find fun to do so

 

[DrDrago]

For CRP you need competence and reliance on the other party to convey a narrative. I personally detest rolls because I understand every combat school front and back. I know what they will do in a fight and what their strengths and weaknesses are. But rarely do I see people utilizing the skills for the school listed on the wiki article so it becomes a muddied fight between what you think you should be able to do with the combat school versus what the training would actually have been. So in that sense a role system with modifiers just doesn't make sense when there are multiple factors for one school being better than another. For example, while they use a heavy shield, people forget that Blackmarks are also trained in boxing. There are nuances that exist on each page that often go overlooked for the sake of cool weapons and skills.

But for the sake of the OP, I would be able to be a "CRPM" from time to time.

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How would you do this to make this idea work? more ideas the better

 

[Posidem]

Griffer page quotes they aren't effective against Turall. The point of my question was how does two people, who'd normally argue about rolls or combat in OOC chat, agree on, let's say, +3 for the champion griffer and +5 for the turall. Or +3 for each. Or your numbers.

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okay so if griffer isn't effective, griffer would have disadvantage rolls. for example:

griffer: /roll 1 20 and they get let's 9. add +5 because they're a champ and it's 14. they have disadvantage and they /roll 1 20 again. omg look they got an 18 +5, so 23. BUT since they have disadvantage they stick with the lower number.

 

[AtticCat]

Maybe saying "No one ever does" was a big exaggeration but the idea behind it is not everyone is a good roleplayer and this would be a more inviting way for new people to join the server and get involved with CRP which lots of people find fun to do so

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I feel like having people babysit a fight would drive people away from crp

 

[Beetletoes]

Not going to read all this, just going to state my thoughts. One, this is a bad idea, and I can see rolling causing more problems than normal crp. Two, when you take into account the amount of crp going down in places like the slums, I can't see these "combat roleplay masters" being able to be in so many places at once. Additionally, I wouldn't trust them to be unbiased.

 

[GoodDreamer]

I prefer to CRP using logic instead of rolls. In my experience, rolling should only be used when time is short or when no one knows whether or not an attack should hit. Rolling for everything is what allows Ailor to overpower Orcs, for Grakklak to defeat a Viridian, and for people to dodge attacks in ways that suggest superhuman perception and reactions. None of these things should happen outside of controlled, specific circumstances. Ever.

Even if you could find a way to balance out the logic gaps and whatnot, you'd be left with a Google Doc filled with numbers that you add and subtract to each roll depending on your Race, hight, body build, reaction time, weapon, armor, move-type, and whatever else you could conjure up. Chances are, no one will use it. Beyond being either mind-numbingly complex or heart-achingly simple and ineffective, the majority of people won't be receptive to the concept to begin with. It doesn't mean your system is bad or poor or that your ideas are disliked by the community, it's mostly just that many of us have already set ourselves in this logic-based combat, even if logic might be hard to find sometimes. I like it that way.

New players would be driven away from CRP if a complicated roll-system was added. I don't think anyone, least of all a newcomer, wants to have to fight someone else using a spreadsheet. It'd sound draining and scary and complicated to someone fresh to roleplay on Massive.

If people find it hard to CRP, it just means they either need to practice with their group or ask another player who their group like fighting. In my arrogance, I'd be delighted to train anyone to CRP to what I understand is an acceptable standard. I have more than enough time to spare. But I doubt that anyone wants to go to a fight and moderate between two people who should be more than capable of dealing with their own problems. Calling in a third party is a last resort.

 

[DrDrago]

Not going to read all this, just going to state my thoughts. One, this is a bad idea, and I can see rolling causing more problems than normal crp. Two, when you take into account the amount of crp going down in places like the slums, I can't see these "combat roleplay masters" being able to be in so many places at once. Additionally, I wouldn't trust them to be unbiased.

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This is the reason I stated that it should be used in events or Rp progression

 

[Wumpatron]

How would you do this to make this idea work? more ideas the better

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The only way for it to work is for both parties to be knowledgeable on their combat schools, otherwise the role would be a moderator, which is what I do already from time to time. So in that sense, the idea cannot be made to work, but rather it is up to the players utilizing the CRP. As weak of an answer as it is it's the truth.

 

[Conflee]

The annoying thing with CRP is that people who question a lot of emotes tend to either be low-key win rpers or just know a lot about HEMA and come off wrong. The gap is a large one.

A system that is too complex will instantly run into a billion issues unless traits like speed and strength are given quantifiable numbers, but when they are given solid numbers, players first instinct is to Min-Max everything they can to fit their own goals. Numbers do that, people just want to be efficient and effective naturally.

Though on that unrelated tangent at the top of my reply, I might try to make a HEMA playlist with some decent videos for basic swordplay and stuff for people to casually browse over. I think looking into that stuff helps a lot with Combat RP in general, you can make emotes for descriptive and logical after seeing it visualized and explained by people who actually put time into it lol.