Archived Chair Glitch Fix

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Imboring56

Imboring56

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I have an idea on how to fix people getting access into buildings or getting over walls by chair glitching:

Let's take a page out of the cannons plugin for this one. You make a cannon by making a row of iron blocks of at least 2 long, and then you add buttons on the end of it. You then add a torch on the top to have chat say that you have created a cannon.

Let's say that instead of the iron blocks, you needed stairs, and that you needed at least one. Then let's remove the buttons and put signs on the edge on them. Then you remove the torch, and it would display a message in chat saying that you had created a chair.

A fix to people glitching to into structures to gain access, or to hop over walls without using up an ender pearl or to bloodlust over stuff.
 
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I really don't get the cannon part, but making chairs so they need signs at the end to explicitly define them as such is a good idea.
 
Just make it like leaves and you have to be next to the chair.
 
Imboring56 said:
I have an idea on how to fix people getting access into buildings or getting over walls by chair glitching:

Let's take a page out of the cannons plugin for this one. You make a cannon by making a row of iron blocks of at least 2 long, and then you add buttons on the end of it. You then add a torch on the top to have chat say that you have created a cannon.

Let's say that instead of the iron blocks, you needed stairs, and that you needed at least one. Then let's remove the buttons and put signs on the edge on them. Then you remove the torch, and it would display a message in chat saying that you had created a chair.

A fix to people glitching to into structures to gain access, or to hop over walls without using up an ender pearl or to bloodlust over stuff.
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Pretty sure
Cowboys1919 said:
@Cowboys1919
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made a fix for chairs in which you cant be under it, you have to be a block etc, cant punch thru to sit down, chair cant have blocks over, etc.[DOUBLEPOST=1365648872,1365648798][/DOUBLEPOST]So you should ask him
 
Chairs is not an inhouse plugin. Any issues should first be proposed to the actual dev before we consider modifying it ourselves
 
http://dev.bukkit.org/server-mods/chairs/
I hope this is the right one, because here is a quote from it:
  • If you have the "sign-check"-option in the config.yml enabled, there have to be signs at the end of the chair/row of chairs to be able to sit down.
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So, I am wondering, is this the wrong plugin or does Massivecraft need to turn on the signs?[DOUBLEPOST=1365680390,1365680173][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, note this code in the config.yml:
Code: 
allowed-blocks: 
- WOOD_STAIRS 
- COBBLESTONE_STAIRS 
- BRICK_STAIRS
- SMOOTH_STAIRS 
- NETHER_BRICK_STAIRS
item: LEVER
auto-rotate: true
sneaking: true
max-chair-width: 3
sign-check: false
distance: 2
sitting-height: 0.7
This is the default code. I'm wondering if we could just change the sign-check to true?
 
I agree that this problem needs to be fixed but I do not like the idea of using the signs as an indicator that it is a chair.

This would require using signs at the end of any chair you want to sit on and many times this is not the case. Other things like using trap doors as the edge or putting the chair against a wall wouldn't work anymore. I personally think signs at the end of stairs is the least attractive way you can make one and really hope this is not forced on everyone's design.
 
SacredTrout said:
Just make it like leaves and you have to be next to the chair.
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I agree with Sacred, just make it so you have to be very close, and maybe on the same y level. Forcing signs - I very deeply hope that doesn't become the case. Even the chairs in Regalia will need to be reset. You shouldn't have to have all chairs look the same, that's very boring. Who knows how that option really translates anyway, it could mean that you can no longer have double wide chairs because there isn't a sign on both sides of the stair block.
 
Ok, time to address some concerns:

Personally, when I make a suggestion, I first take 15 minutes to think up a list of pros and cons. The pros greatly outweigh the cons in my opinion. Here is the list I have thought of and a level of importance:

Pros:
- Stop people using a well-known and easy-to-use exploit that will impact every player at least once in their total playtime: 8 out of 10
Cons:
- Make chairs boring: 2 out of 10
- Reset all chairs: 4 out of 10

People do not realize the importance of this because of a couple of minor details. Think about it, would you install a plugin that removes all hacking provided with a small drop of TPS? I would, because I could handle a bit of lag so that all of the hackers on this server would be punished.[DOUBLEPOST=1365709819,1365709724][/DOUBLEPOST]I will post a formal report once I am back at a computer, which will be in a few hours. Except to hear an informative reply soon.
 
Imboring56 said:
Ok, time to address some concerns:

Personally, when I make a suggestion, I first take 15 minutes to think up a list of pros and cons. The pros greatly outweigh the cons in my opinion. Here is the list I have thought of and a level of importance:

Pros:
- Stop people using a well-known and easy-to-use exploit that will impact every player at least once in their total playtime: 8 out of 10
Cons:
- Make chairs boring: 2 out of 10
- Reset all chairs: 4 out of 10

People do not realize the importance of this because of a couple of minor details. Think about it, would you install a plugin that removes all hacking provided with a small drop of TPS? I would, because I could handle a bit of lag so that all of the hackers on this server would be punished.[DOUBLEPOST=1365709819,1365709724][/DOUBLEPOST]I will post a formal report once I am back at a computer, which will be in a few hours. Except to hear an informative reply soon.
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This really doesn't address any concerns it just ranks others' opinions in order of importance compared to yours which is really the opposite of helpful.

And as far as it impacting every player, that is simply not true. The chair glitch is really only a problem in places you can use it to get through walls because otherwise you can just use an ender pearl to get there....changing the chairs will not fix people being able to get on your roof or places that are too far to jump because they can just ender there. The amount of places that you can actually use a chair to get into a building by glitching through the wall is not that great and certainly will not be a problem for every player.

Comparing this fix to something that could fix all hacking on the server is a gross exaggeration and really doesn't apply to something where the pros and cons are not as drastic as stopping all hacking.

And wanting to be able to use other materials at the ends of chairs is not about not making them boring, I never said that. It is about being able to make different designs that fit with your architecture and not have to make every chair look the same. It isn't very RP to have every chair in the entire world be identical, and what if I want to sit on the steps to my castle while I chat with some friends? It is taking away a lot more than just interesting chairs.
 
MDeeDub said:
This really doesn't address any concerns it just ranks others' opinions in order of importance compared to yours which is really the opposite of helpful.

And as far as it impacting every player, that is simply not true. The chair glitch is really only a problem in places you can use it to get through walls because otherwise you can just use an ender pearl to get there....changing the chairs will not fix people being able to get on your roof or places that are too far to jump because they can just ender there. The amount of places that you can actually use a chair to get into a building by glitching through the wall is not that great and certainly will not be a problem for every player.

Comparing this fix to something that could fix all hacking on the server is a gross exaggeration and really doesn't apply to something where the pros and cons are not as drastic as stopping all hacking.

And wanting to be able to use other materials at the ends of chairs is not about not making them boring, I never said that. It is about being able to make different designs that fit with your architecture and not have to make every chair look the same. It isn't very RP to have every chair in the entire world be identical, and what if I want to sit on the steps to my castle while I chat with some friends? It is taking away a lot more than just interesting chairs.
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That's the thing. We want people to waste an ender pearl to get over a wall, not just use a cheap trick to get inside. Also, this applies for great castles and fortresses. If you are sitting peacefully inside and somebody uses this glitch to enter your territory unwantedly, that wouldn't be good would it? Also, it does impact every player. How would you like it if you thought you were secure inside your strong castle, but then some noob who was just taught the glitch abuses it and gets in? He'd bring others and murder you while you would probably not have a clue on what happened.

Well, what's the RP problem with making chairs look somewhat identical? It's worse to have them be used as a way inside your secure base.

Fit with your architecture? What are you going to add to the chair, a giant building? Signs are non-solid blocks that look ok on chairs, and they don't interfere with any builds around it. Plus, they can be easily hidden. And I was referring to Gilmania's comment about it being boring, not to yours.

If you want to sit on your castle's steps, then you can hide signs in an area so that it still acts like a chair. There are many workarounds to this problem that people simply are either too lazy to think of or just don't want to.
 
Also, it does impact every player. How would you like it if you thought you were secure inside your strong castle, but then some noob who was just taught the glitch abuses it and gets in? He'd bring others and murder you while you would probably not have a clue on what happened.
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It really doesn't because not everyone cares if someone is using that glitch.

I personally do not have a single place in my faction that a chair can be used to get inside a building because I designed it that way. So no one in my faction would be affected by it, therefore it does not affect every player. Saying something affects everyone is a really exaggerated statement that is just not true.

And if someone were to do this to me in a building I KNEW was secure I would report them, simple as that. So its not really an issue.

Fit with your architecture? What are you going to add to the chair, a giant building? Signs are non-solid blocks that look ok on chairs, and they don't interfere with any builds around it
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That is an opinion, I personally think signs on chairs are very unattractive. It would defiantly interfere with builds around it because if I wanted to hide the sign like you suggest now my chair has to be placed against a wall or something that is thick enough to hide it.

There are many workarounds to this problem that people simply are either too lazy to think of or just don't want to
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I could easily say the same thing to you. There are many ways to work around the stair glitch so that your buildings are still secure, you could easily implement a workaround so that people cannot abuse the glitch in your territory.


All of this is really beside the point though because this is not the only way to fix the glitch. Implementing what Gilmania or Sacred said about having to be close enough to it is a much better solution that does not come with any of the problems yours does.
 
To end off this debate, for now:

I at first thought the distance could be adjusted due to the already pre-set code, but then I realized it wouldn't work and here's why. The amount of distance next to the block could be set to 1, but couldn't somebody simply get up to the stair or get right near it with bloodlust or ender pearl? That still wouldn't solve the problem of people glitching inside restricted areas or getting over obstacles.

Going to say one quick thing about the castle design, yes, I do see that it is an easy workaround. However, for most builders, stairs are a fundamental part of building. I used to work with TheWayMaker in the Grid on Faradeen, and it was fun. We spent hours on end in there building giant structures. And we didn't care about stairs, or what use they would be to raiders during a raid. I would only just imagine if all of these castles and walls were implemented and how many factions would use them, only to be glitched into with all that work done for nothing.

This glitch always disturbs me while building because I have to think of every single possible exploit people would use to get in. It makes me think while doing it and makes me linger on sections of the build. I had to reject so many castle and wall designs, not to mention blimp and ship designs, due to the fact that stairs can be abused.

Also, stairs will, let's admit it, make your build look better in most cases. It does not look as creative or unique if it was too square. And the fact that you say I use too many opinions can be thrown back at you. Your castle is one of hundreds that people make. Your town is one of hundreds that people make. Every situation is unique, however, when you go to major factions like Osai, Auxillian, 9thLegion, and so on and so forth, you begin to see a big use for stairs. A lot of other factions like Algaron and Deathfist also like to use stairs.

I have also seen numerous complaints from others that report the glitch and waste the time of the staff. I don't want the team to do more work than they have to, so if they could just check one little function in the configuration to true, why wouldn't they do that? Also, if they have to sift through multiple ban requests of people glitching into the base, they'd have to get proof or do an investigation. Believe me, you do not want to go through that process.

That ends my debate, if I want to continue this, I'll reply to any others that would like to make a comment about this. Otherwise, that will end my opinion on this topic.
 
MDeeDub said:
I personally do not have a single place in my faction that a chair can be used to get inside a building because I designed it that way. So no one in my faction would be affected by it, therefore it does not affect every player. Saying something affects everyone is a really exaggerated statement that is just not true.
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It still effects you because you had to build your castle in such a way that it could not be glitched in to. That's all I have to add to this topic.
 
I never said I didn't use stairs in my faction, I just use them in strategic places so that they do not compromise security, of course buildings look better with stairs and I use them all the time. I don't have a faction of square block buildings, I am just smart about it.

It still effects you because you had to build your castle in such a way that it could not be glitched in to. That's all I have to add to this topic.
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And ya that means it affected me (I never said it didn't) because I had to build in a certain way but it doesn't effect my faction members because they had nothing to do with building. So no it does not affect every player. Especially because I'm sure there are players out there who do not care one way or the other so therefore it doesn't affect them either.
 
Imboring56 said:
To end off this debate, for now:

I at first thought the distance could be adjusted due to the already pre-set code, but then I realized it wouldn't work and here's why. The amount of distance next to the block could be set to 1, but couldn't somebody simply get up to the stair or get right near it with bloodlust or ender pearl? That still wouldn't solve the problem of people glitching inside restricted areas or getting over obstacles.

Going to say one quick thing about the castle design, yes, I do see that it is an easy workaround. However, for most builders, stairs are a fundamental part of building. I used to work with TheWayMaker in the Grid on Faradeen, and it was fun. We spent hours on end in there building giant structures. And we didn't care about stairs, or what use they would be to raiders during a raid. I would only just imagine if all of these castles and walls were implemented and how many factions would use them, only to be glitched into with all that work done for nothing.

This glitch always disturbs me while building because I have to think of every single possible exploit people would use to get in. It makes me think while doing it and makes me linger on sections of the build. I had to reject so many castle and wall designs, not to mention blimp and ship designs, due to the fact that stairs can be abused.

Also, stairs will, let's admit it, make your build look better in most cases. It does not look as creative or unique if it was too square. And the fact that you say I use too many opinions can be thrown back at you. Your castle is one of hundreds that people make. Your town is one of hundreds that people make. Every situation is unique, however, when you go to major factions like Osai, Auxillian, 9thLegion, and so on and so forth, you begin to see a big use for stairs. A lot of other factions like Algaron and Deathfist also like to use stairs.

I have also seen numerous complaints from others that report the glitch and waste the time of the staff. I don't want the team to do more work than they have to, so if they could just check one little function in the configuration to true, why wouldn't they do that? Also, if they have to sift through multiple ban requests of people glitching into the base, they'd have to get proof or do an investigation. Believe me, you do not want to go through that process.

That ends my debate, if I want to continue this, I'll reply to any others that would like to make a comment about this. Otherwise, that will end my opinion on this topic.
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tldr: "All your seats are belong to us! (and you must put signs on them ALL!)"

Your argument is invalid, because you think using signs equals eliminating the glitch. It doesn't. If we do it your way, you better not put any seats in your castle! You see, defining what is a seat doesn't change being able to use that seat to glitch.

To fix the problem, i.e. that people can teleport great distances by sitting, you shorten the distance they can teleport. You don't ruin creativity because it doesn't alter the core problem, teleporting great distances. Even better - make sitting a permission so that enemies can't sit. Offer no restful recliners for Le Invaders!
 
Gilmania said:
tldr: "All your seats are belong to us! (and you must put signs on them ALL!)"

Your argument is invalid, because you think using signs equals eliminating the glitch. It doesn't. If we do it your way, you better not put any seats in your castle! You see, defining what is a seat doesn't change being able to use that seat to glitch.

To fix the problem, i.e. that people can teleport great distances by sitting, you shorten the distance they can teleport. You don't ruin creativity because it doesn't alter the core problem, teleporting great distances. Even better - make sitting a permission so that enemies can't sit. Offer no restful recliners for Le Invaders!
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Even better make it so if an enemy sits in you faction land they cant get up again. Fear me and my glue covered chairs>:).
 
Overlordqwerty said:
Even better make it so if an enemy sits in you faction land they cant get up again. Fear me and my glue covered chairs>:).
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+1 "Only the chosen ones have access to my anti-adhesive powers! I command you to sit and think about what you've done!"


Also, if you force all seats to be capped by signs, it would have an impact on RP by introducing blatant metagaming. See below illustrative scenarios:
"Hello traveler, take a seat with me" "Oi, why do all of your chairs look the same?" "The server plugin requires them to be"

"I am a traveler, may I sit and speak with you on the steps of your castle?" "Sorry yon traveler, the server plugin won't let you sit unless you're next to a sign. Yon legs cannot bend without the presence of a sign."

"Hello pretty princess. May I sit next to you on this love seat?" "No, the server plugin doesn't register this as an adequate place for you to plop your bum, since it is not connected to a sign"
 
Gilmania said:
+1 "Only the chosen ones have access to my anti-adhesive powers! I command you to sit and think about what you've done!"


Also, if you force all seats to be capped by signs, it would have an impact on RP by introducing blatant metagaming. See below illustrative scenarios:
"Hello traveler, take a seat with me" "Oi, why do all of your chairs look the same?" "The server plugin requires them to be"

"I am a traveler, may I sit and speak with you on the steps of your castle?" "Sorry yon traveler, the server plugin won't let you sit unless you're next to a sign. Yon legs cannot bend without the presence of a sign."

"Hello pretty princess. May I sit next to you on this love seat?" "No, the server plugin doesn't register this as an adequate place for you to plop your bum, since it is not connected to a sign"
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Indeed, why not just scrap the whole sign idea and use the enemies cannot sit on chairs idea instead. Or even have chair sitting as a faction permission. Default to everyone except enemies. Although I still do like my idea about getting stuck in chairs, teach those nasty glitchers a lesson.
 
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