Archived Celestial Magic Mechanics And Mending Light

[Caelamus]

The main topic of the thread which I wish to convey is a suggestion to change or alter some of the mechanics of Celestial Magic. Primarily the time which it takes to cast spells and complete them especially in regards to Mending Light. I have recently delved off from using my main character as much which primarily focuses on traditional medicine to instead play my Celestial Mage and gain development on them.

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EDITED SUGGESTION: I thought over the idea that you could spend ten to five minutes to use Mending Light to heal or mend someone and it seals the wound, casting a sort of glowing stitching effect which leaves it vulnerable for a period of 24 Hours and then fully heals as opposed to spending weeks or more to mend an injury. That way people still get the effect of wounded roleplay.
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One thing I have noticed roleplaying with the magic is that mending light takes an excessive time period in order to heal anything. This so far has not been very conductive to my roleplay or the roleplay of the patients I am interacting with in a clinical roleplay setting. The patients my character treats usually always request a time skip or I end up having to do it vice versa given the extensive time the magic takes. It breaks the immersion and fluidity of the roleplay scene for both myself and everyone in the clinic around me and my character's patient. Several hours pass by and usually it seems unfitting as in a busy clinical setting where there are certainly five or four others behind you while you're healing doing their own roleplay and then to suddenly have to jump ahead of time to further the roleplay with Mending Light breaks the immersion and fluidity of the scene which in turn in the clinic usually displaces the concept of time in the roleplay.

One could also argue that a patient could simply return for healing at a later date or time but rarely do patients ever return to a clinic. They come once to recieve healing roleplay and leave. They only come back if they end up getting their character hurt again. This mechanic may serve a purpose to negate people from healing themselves on a battlefield but it's very rare in healer roleplay that you ever end up healing yourself or someone else in the middle of combat roleplay (You could easily define that a battlefield is too chaotic for them to heal in the heat of the moment). I suggest the time it requires to heal be reduced to a more manageable level that doesn't force excessive time skipping in order to function or waiting the full hour or two hours it takes to heal a wound. There are other methods of balancing the magic such as making the wait time five or ten real minutes and allowing you to just chat with the person to continue the roleplay and gives ample time to emote your healing and anyone else in the room does have a chance to stop it in that it's not instant healing.

Additionally not necessarily part of the primary objective of the topic to address casting time mechanics I have other features and ideas that could be implemented in the magic to make it more appealing and interesting aswell. My first idea is the re-introduction of the lantern system from Starlight Magic given Celestial Magic is practically a fusion of both of those magics. In that the mage must create and carry a magical lantern with them in order to perform their spells. And a re-introduction of Starlight Magic's resource system in which it has to use the lantern to feed off of actual light sources surrounding the mage in order to power its spells again. Including Mending Light. This system could also serve as a counter-balance to lowering the required casting time for magical spells.

Spells such as Starlight Blast, Blinding Flash etc come from the light source of the lantern in a cone shaped arc as opposed to some strange ball of light you throw at the ground that oddly goes into a particular direction the mage intends. Another thought is that if the mage somehow loses the lantern or it gets stolen they can make another however takes a period of 24 hours to recreate. In that time span they cannot use their celestial magic spells (Like the eye of bell from Elemental Magic.) In that losing the lantern comes at a price however doesn't completely castrate the mage's ability to roleplay with their magical permissions. Another feature which could be added to make the spells and lantern more unique to the particular mage is to allow them customization of their lantern and perhaps the color of their light magic though it's a minor thought and less of a significant change than the other features mention above.


(I had a random tidbit idea regarding the lantern that the core of the device could be a solacrox stone that had been enchanted or imbued with planar essence etc.)

I would also like to make clear that the primary topic of the thread is that regarding the casting time. The lantern bit is simply just additional suggestion and far less important to roleplaying with the magic as it stands but it could stand for some improvement.


I would like to hear the opinions and views of other celestial mage players I know of to help share their input and open discussion in regards to the topic @ElderShrub @TheDongler Feel free to tag more you may know for further input or ideas. I believe the suggestions and aforementioned system above may help make the magic more unique in itself rather than essentially being akin to typical

 

[Lizmun]

Will reply to this later. If I don't, remind me.

 

[Magivore]

EDIT: STATEMENT RETRACTED. I NO LONGER SUPPORT THIS ARGUMENT.

While we're bringing that up, I will reference demon magic's Aderla: Blood Bind spell. It behaves almost identically to Celestial magic's Mending Light (in fact the spell references the light magic page for this), though the user has to injure themselves in order to use it. While I am fine with all other details, I would like to see if I can stack that spell onto this thread for having a decreased casting/effect time.

My opinion on the item-focused casting, however, is that it be used more like flavour than anything for users. Requiring both hands for the mage to cast their spell (unless using material regents) is seemingly intentional so that mages don't just carry around swords to use as their casting focus, or to prevent mages from constantly becoming completely useless upon the slightest provocation of combat since people would just rip their casting item free and then mercilessly beat them. Decreasing casting times even further, save for spells that take up to 10-20 seconds to use, also don't seem to really be useful enough to since casting 2 seconds faster in combat isn't nearly as useful as casting in 5 seconds rather than 10. Once more, it provides the opportunity for people to simply screw over mages when they kind of are already stuck in a dangerous position! Their builds are locked below athletic, they often need to be weak races to be stronger magical users, and the casting time required for some spells make close-quarters combat a nightmare (as seen when Ichabod gets into any fight and wants to use his magic). The reason Folelsa only works so well with the use of a ring is because you will not need to actually learn the spells on one's own, along with the fact that the spells are all very subtle yet powerful when used correctly (not to mention they basically need nothing to use).

To sum up my opinions:

• Decrease healing times to be way less than an hour. 15 minutes sounds acceptable since it will prevent people from hopping right back into the battle while also avoiding the interruption of a fluid scene.
• Include Aderla: Blood Bind to decreasing this long time of casting.
• Spell focuses on items are interesting, but I can only see it hampering or complicating a mage much more than you might want if it becomes required for any school (considering spells like demon magic are 10+ seconds and significantly harming the caster to cast while Leveia magic is basically entirely instant with only benefits). Making a non-combat item as your spellcasting focus of choice could be really cool for flavour, though.

@Caelamus

 

[Caelamus]

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I agree the lantern concept adds primarily more flavor as opposed to much grounding. It just makes me more sense to me in the basis of aesthetically casting though the idea did come to mind of the mage mercilessly beating someone over the head with the lantern reviewing it. Likely would have to make the object fragile to negate that if it were the case. As stated it's more so an aesthetic to make it more unique-- thank you for adding on the Demon Magic concept there. I forgot they had that ability personally. Which is also already has a negative drawback from the seems of it given the mage themselves are required to harm themselves in order for this to function.

I also believe a resource system in tandem with the lantern as if you had to go collect light in order to heal or use magic like in Starlight simply adds more flavor to the roleplay itself, leeching someones light source away or lights from the street seems an interesting more unique concept to me.

 

[Magivore]

It just makes me more sense to me in the basis of aesthetically casting though the idea did come to mind of the mage mercilessly beating someone over the head with the lantern reviewing it. Likely would have to make the object fragile to negate that if it were the case.

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Actually, I'm more concerned about the mage getting beaten with their own lantern. Being pressed up against a warrior is bad enough, so having their only real source of casting used against them is just adding insult to injury. Magic should be a great strength that, when used cleverly with enough time and resources, could outweigh multiple warriors. It shouldn't have to be a weakness that sometimes provides a moment of power. I see where you're coming from, but unfortunately, I am quite glad that we are far away from that system that requires a constant leeching of energy in order to have a spell that won't always succeed (or rarely ever, in some combat cases seen with things like Blood Curse or Ultimate spells). This is especially considering that Celestial magic is good, but not nearly as powerful as things such as Leveia magic which can have spells spammed to control, blind, or completely render opponents useless while allies can sunder the enemy defenses in the blink of an eye.

 

[ElderShrub]

Firstly. I actually agree, this breaks the flow of role-play. Timeskips are a pain. However, the problem here isn't Celestial magic's use in combat. I actually believe (and I may well be wrong) this ludicrously long time to heal was added in to balance Celestial magic healing as opposed to conventional healing. Celestial healing has the advantage of being painless, safer and more effective than conventional medicine. However it comes at the cost that a Celestial mage can't rapidly switch between different patients during a heated moment or when many are injured. This is a deliberate counterbalance to allow doctors such as Jocelyn a distinct advantage.

Personally, I would change Mending Light so that rather than take hours, it takes 10 or 15 minutes to cast. Far too long to be done for combat roleplay. However, while it heals the wound near instantly, the mended flesh is weak and gives a strange glow in the colour of the mage's casting. Should the patient put too much strain on the wounded element, the wound will tear itself open again much as a failed spell does now. Secondly, if the mage casts again on a different target the original wound will rip open. This means a mage can only focus on healing one target at a time. But doesn't force time skips. Once an hour has passed the light will fade and the spell can be recast.

In addition, I would have Mending Light heal all recent wounds on a person, rather than having to do each wound individually. This is mostly just a convenience thing, it would still take a while to heal and such. It just means that you don't need to be worried about someone bleeding out as you're going through the agonizingly long process of healing one wound. A lot of celestial mages, myself included sadly, kind of botch the idea of bleeding out while under Celestial healing because it's not mentioned on the wiki. However most people looking for healing aren't suffering from just one major debilitating wound.

Finally as for the lantern idea; I'm personally not up for it because I don't particularly like the aesthetic but I'm not going to complain if its implemented. As a throwaway suggestion, if you like the lantern aesthetic a great idea would be to use it to store Blinding Flash spells. Taking lights however could be used creatively in unintended ways and I could see it quickly getting out of hand. Finally more customization would be great, of course. I don't believe it actually mentions a colour for Celestial Magic on the wiki . I just go with golden because prior Light Magic was clearly golden. But anything that can be used to add mysticism and mystery to magic without making it less clear or changing it functionally would be wonderful. Customization and more freedom with the visual aspects of casting could be a good way to do that.

Anyhow this is just my rambling thoughts on the matter. I'm not too torn up one way or another.

 

[Conflee]

In lines with the above comment: I agree that the time feels like too long. Perhaps there could be some minor tweaking for times when used in conjunction to normal conventional healing methods. So, stitched wounds will take half as long. Wounds that have already been cleaned out and lightly treated take half as long. Etc. So conventional healing and mending magic can be used in conjunction to halve the times basically is my suggestion.

 

[Reaganism]

Wouldn't lowering the casting time allow players to heal others in the middle of a scene? EG, withdraw from combat roleplay and re-enter. From experience, larger battles tend to draw on longer than 15 minutes, but don't usually last an hour.

 

[Wumpatron]

Remember one thing about Celestial Magic, it can heal mortal injuries. This means I could have been stabbed through the stomach with no chance of survival and a Celestial Mage can save my life with no repercussions on my end. Another point of view that is more common, I could have suffered a wound to the joint of my leg. In all actuality I would not be able to use it the same way again. If I were in an agility based combat school I would be reduced to a significantly lower level or be forced to retire. Celestial Magic negates that. Celestial Magic is so powerful it hard resets any damage taken. Traditional medicine can only do so much. That is the perspective you are dealing with. It's a very powerful magic in that respect. Time skips are annoying, but to reduce the cast time makes the spell too powerful.

 

[Magivore]

Remember one thing about Celestial Magic, it can heal mortal injuries. This means I could have been stabbed through the stomach with no chance of survival and a Celestial Mage can save my life with no repercussions on my end. Another point of view that is more common, I could have suffered a wound to the joint of my leg. In all actuality I would not be able to use it the same way again. If I were in an agility based combat school I would be reduced to a significantly lower level or be forced to retire. Celestial Magic negates that. Celestial Magic is so powerful it hard resets any damage taken. Traditional medicine can only do so much. That is the perspective you are dealing with. It's a very powerful magic in that respect. Time skips are annoying, but to reduce the cast time makes the spell too powerful.

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Oh! I thought it only sealed up deep wounds rather than undo organ damage and joint destruction like it once did before the update. Bearing this in mind:

Wouldn't lowering the casting time allow players to heal others in the middle of a scene? EG, withdraw from combat roleplay and re-enter. From experience, larger battles tend to draw on longer than 15 minutes, but don't usually last an hour.

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This seems like an argument that could make a lot of problems in the future (since common courtesy just isn't enough in some cases), especially since that means that I could potentially rip someone apart and repair my permanently damaged leg in the same hour with only 2 spells. With that, I'll retract my statements.

 

[Markisbeest]

I very much enjoy the way Celestial magic is implemented. It is tedious, but thorough and effective. Traditional medicine is less tedious, but far more ineffective. Or so it should be.
I understand the qualms people are having with it, because I've never witnessed anyone roll for something like infection, or post-surgery complications, which is one of the things that differentiate between celestial magic and traditional medicine.
In theory both methods have their pro's and con's. In practice however the pro's of traditional medicine are far outweighing the pro's of celestial magic due to both being automatically successful and celestial magic just being so very far more bothersome.

 

[Caelamus]

Wouldn't lowering the casting time allow players to heal others in the middle of a scene? EG, withdraw from combat roleplay and re-enter. From experience, larger battles tend to draw on longer than 15 minutes, but don't usually last an hour.

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That is a potential problem but what is to stop people from timeskipping and then re-entering the scene moments later? Common courtesy is still something that has to be upheld irregardless. Limiting it to fifteen or ten minutes of OOC time assures in part that the courtesty is upheld. Right now with timeskipping the actual process of healing only takes two to three minutes and those that ignore courtesy to begin with will simply jump back into the scene anyway.

Making someone instead wait five or ten minutes OOC to undergo healing and allowing the mage to talk to them both furthers roleplay there, negates them from being able to heal multiple people at once like a traditional physician and negates them from blowing courtesy to the wind and jumping straight back into the combat roleplay. (Irregardless no one actually does this. People who get healed just wander off and don't go back.) Over all I would suggest Shrub's suggestion of making it like a vulnerable or open wound regardless to counter them from jumping right back into the scene. That's another way to negate them and keep the fluidity of roleplay intact.

Remember one thing about Celestial Magic, it can heal mortal injuries. This means I could have been stabbed through the stomach with no chance of survival and a Celestial Mage can save my life with no repercussions on my end. Another point of view that is more common, I could have suffered a wound to the joint of my leg. In all actuality I would not be able to use it the same way again. If I were in an agility based combat school I would be reduced to a significantly lower level or be forced to retire. Celestial Magic negates that. Celestial Magic is so powerful it hard resets any damage taken. Traditional medicine can only do so much. That is the perspective you are dealing with. It's a very powerful magic in that respect. Time skips are annoying, but to reduce the cast time makes the spell too powerful.

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There are other methods to balance this. @ElderShrub had a good suggestion in that it reduces the casting time but essentially seals the wound with glowing light. In that time frame the wound is more open and vulnerable and can be re-opened. And it takes an hour to heal. (This system actually also compliments @Miss_Ortonnaise qualms well as it negates them from jumping back into combat rp.) it could take an actual hour to heal them at that without timeskipping involved and keep the fluidity of the roleplay intact. I'd suggest reviewing his suggestion above.

 

[Reaganism]

That is a potential problem but what is to stop people from timeskipping and then re-entering the scene moments later? Common courtesy is still something that has to be upheld irregardless. Limiting it to fifteen or ten minutes of OOC time assures in part that the courtesty is upheld. Right now with timeskipping the actual process of healing only takes two to three minutes and those that ignore courtesy to begin with will simply jump back into the scene anyway.

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I'd say, ignore those who breach the rules. Right now, it's impossible to re-enter combat after having been healed up behind lines. If you reduce it to 15 minutes, it gives the possibility.

Because. Fights usually "Last" only a couple minutes IRP, every emote tells around 2-6 seconds' worth of action. At the same time, a whole round of emotes usually takes up a minute or two to come about. With this in mind, the combat lasts half a minute IRP, but a wounded can be brought back from the back lines referencing 15 OOC minutes of healing. That's far more iffy with an hour's worth.

And I think wounds shouldn't be time-skipped either. It sorta ruins the purpose of a wound anyhow.

 

[Caelamus]

I'd say, ignore those who breach the rules. Right now, it's impossible to re-enter combat after having been healed up behind lines. If you reduce it to 15 minutes, it gives the possibility.

Because. Fights usually "Last" only a couple minutes IRP, every emote tells around 2-6 seconds' worth of action. At the same time, a whole round of emotes usually takes up a minute or two to come about. With this in mind, the combat lasts half a minute IRP, but a wounded can be brought back from the back lines referencing 15 OOC minutes of healing. That's far more iffy with an hour's worth.

And I think wounds shouldn't be time-skipped either. It sorta ruins the purpose of a wound anyhow.

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Again. There are other methods to avoid this such as Shrub's suggestion of spending fifteen minutes to heal the wound or so and the actual wound being sealed with a glowing light taking upwards of an hour to heal. Which allows them to wander around and continue their roleplay without having to timeskip the process of actually casting the magic to healing. Sitting a clinic for two hours straight unable to talk while you cast is very redundant and the way it's written does not permit you from leaving the scene and doing multiple healing sessions.

 

[Magivore]

And I think wounds shouldn't be time-skipped either. It sorta ruins the purpose of a wound anyhow.

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The wound itself isn't skipped, but the healing process. Sitting in a medical ward moaning for an hour while someone pokes at exposed wounds gets boring beyond a couple emotes. I haven't seen an example of someone running back into battle after healing like this, so I wouldn't be so concerned about it.

Over all I would suggest Shrub's suggestion of making it like a vulnerable or open wound regardless to counter them from jumping right back into the scene. That's another way to negate them and keep the fluidity of roleplay intact.

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I don't think that is a good idea. Magic is mighty for a reason, and by following that idea, it becomes identical to throwing on a bandage (which most people do anyways, including myself) to stop the bleeding in that moment. This causes the magic to sort of lose its flavour, in my opinion, and the reason why it's so great yet questionable. While skipping an hour to get someone into roleplay (note that I'm not saying combat) sooner might be irritating, I'm fine with this so as to not overcomplicate a spell that's already both simple and quite mighty.

 

[Conflee]

Another minor suggestion that could improve the healing RP at least might be that beyond the initial incantation, as long as some level of focus is kept you dont have to keep mumbling things. That way at the VERY least you can talk while it happens. Its not much but it might be a minor improvement.

 

[Wumpatron]

There are other methods to balance this. @ElderShrub had a good suggestion in that it reduces the casting time but essentially seals the wound with glowing light. In that time frame the wound is more open and vulnerable and can be re-opened. And it takes an hour to heal. (This system actually also compliments @Miss_Ortonnaise qualms well as it negates them from jumping back into combat rp.) it could take an actual hour to heal them at that without timeskipping involved and keep the fluidity of the roleplay intact. I'd suggest reviewing his suggestion above.

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My counter response is that those who receive healing will not all adhere to this rule. In recent times CRP is lasting a longer period. If someone were to be healed by a mage then they would rush right back into the fight with a few options. Either they "time skipped" the healing, they forgot/ignored about the long period of healing, or they chose to "let the wound" reopen so they can play their badass power fantasy. With this in mind I see that change being easily abused. It would be far too difficult to keep track of that especially in combat situations where there is a block of text that continuously cycles. Now, granted this is a very heavy example, but given the frequency of these sorts of combat scenarios, it is likely.
Another thing is a reminder that any healing done negates damage inflicted by someone else. The healing may take the longest part of time, but if I practically murdered someone and see them able to walk in fifteen minutes, I would feel cheated. The one who received the healing is able to go about as though nothing happened, because you would rarely do something that would open the wounds again in roleplay. Roleplay is a majority talking anyway so the healed person ends up not being affected.

 

[Caelamus]

My counter response is that those who receive healing will not all adhere to this rule. In recent times CRP is lasting a longer period. If someone were to be healed by a mage then they would rush right back into the fight with a few options. Either they "time skipped" the healing, they forgot/ignored about the long period of healing, or they chose to "let the wound" reopen so they can play their badass power fantasy. With this in mind I see that change being easily abused. It would be far too difficult to keep track of that especially in combat situations where there is a block of text that continuously cycles. Now, granted this is a very heavy example, but given the frequency of these sorts of combat scenarios, it is likely.
Another thing is a reminder that any healing done negates damage inflicted by someone else. The healing may take the longest part of time, but if I practically murdered someone and see them able to walk in fifteen minutes, I would feel cheated. The one who received the healing is able to go about as though nothing happened, because you would rarely do something that would open the wounds again in roleplay. Roleplay is a majority talking anyway so the healed person ends up not being affected.

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"My counter response is that those who receive healing will not all adhere to this rule. In recent times CRP is lasting a longer period. If someone were to be healed by a mage then they would rush right back into the fight with a few options. Either they "time skipped" the healing, they forgot/ignored about the long period of healing, or they chose to "let the wound" reopen so they can play their badass power fantasy. With this in mind I see that change being easily abused."

People shouldn't be jumping back into a conflict period after just being healed. I'd suggest making a ticket if it were the case or anything questionable arose. "Either they "time skipped" the healing, they forgot/ignored about the long period of healing, or they chose to "let the wound" reopen so they can play their badass power fantasy. With this in mind I see that change being easily abused." People will do this regardless and could do this in the present system. Changing the time to take less has very little impact on this and again only affects the fluidity of the roleplay. The two hours as a whole does little to affect balance either other than make it to where they can't rapid heal in a clinic full of wounded. It's really only there to balance it between traditional medicine, even then the impact on balance is fairly small. However I would appreciate feedback on the subject of how what you feel concerned about can be remedied, any suggestions constructive to the purpose of the thread etc.

In regards to feeling cheated about someone you've practically murdered being able to walk after fifteen minutes-- What is the difference between that and two hours? The logic of them waddling about after two hours still applies in the present application? (Though I'm not certain they should be.) Hours as opposed to weeks is still very short in terms of healing. The only impact this has is making the other party request a timeskip or the healer in question suggest it. (I've seen a quite a few celestial mages themselves request timeskips.)

And this isn't about timeskipping the wound itself. This is about timeskipping the process of healing the wounds as taking two hours to sit in a clinical room is dull and does not provide much roleplay. The primary issue is the fact it takes two hours to heal. There is very minor difference between it taking five minutes or two hours. The end results are still the exact same as it is. The primary impact is the quality this has on roleplay. The balancing factor of this is very minor and other methods can and could be made to balance it with traditional medicine to make it more unique and keep the fluid movement and quality of the roleplay intact.

The subject of this thread is to provide suggestions and avenues of keeping the roleplay value intact without others having to suggest or ask for timeskipping. Retain balance, keep it creative yet unique and different from Traditional Medicine.

I would also like to request those commenting with their opinions and disagreements on the thread after explaining what they disagree with to also provide suggestions and features to fix what you disagree with. Example being; You disagree with how this affects balance. Provide ideas and suggestions as to how to keep balance intact. New features methods of healing etc. @Miss_Ortonnaise @Wumpatron @ElderShrub @Magivore

 

[Deadfoe51]

I'm going to throw my two cents in here as I've played both a warrior character who frequently gets injured (and uses traditional medicine to get healed) and have my newer character who is actually a Celestial mage. So, I've been on both sides of it and can add my input and opinion on it.

To start off I'm going to agree with Caelamus' most recent response and provide a bit more feedback. Injuries provide roleplay, they provide development, the same is true for the healers who heal them. I get absolutely no feeling of accomplishment, fulfillment, or immersion out of doing a few emotes and then having to timeskip everything. Nobody has the time to sit around for 2hrs, furthermore nobody has the time to sit around for 2 hours just holding your hands to something and nothing else. As Caelamus stated, if you're worried about people jumping right back into the fight, that could still technically happen because it's timeskipped. However, in all reality this is unlikely to happen as recovery and healing are two very different things. Cutting back the time for healing makes it more convenient and less of an "ugh, this again" sort of deal. It will allow for further immersion because timeskipping the main thing your character does is not conductive to roleplay. Imagine forcing a fighter character to timeskip all of his fights, or just timeskipping a political meeting and deciding an outcome. That's not how Roleplay should work.

But Deadfoe! What about that recovery thing? If I stab you, you're going to bleed and last I checked, light magic doesn't also magically fill you up with blood. As well, with things like broken bones your body will still need time to recover from the trauma and all that. Sure, you might not have to wait as long as with other things, but magic is already a special permission and requires an app, just as an Expert healer would who would speed up healing immensely anyway. To add to that, if you feel cheated that someone's recovered in say 1-2 days instead of the normal 1-2 weeks, why are you like this? Being injured provides progression, yes, but unless it's super severe to the point of crippling or maiming, then waiting immensely long to be able to do a certain physical activity isn't productive. Trust me, as someone who plays an active character, being forced not to be able to walk for 2 weeks or lift anything remotely heavy above the waist for 2 weeks, is horrendous. You still want people to have fun, and that means striking a balance or letting people choose how they want go about things within the realm of realism. As stated before, this would be an addition to cut back on healing time as to promote more progression and immersion, not cutting back on the recovery time of the patient being healed. Adding to that, recovery can already be reduced immensely by expert healers and expert alchemists providing top-of-the-line alchemy as stated earlier. Thus a magical person with glow-in-the-dark hands shouldn't be an issue considering the entry requirements and the fact that recovery from severe injuries should still exist albeit shorter than even a week.

Many of the suggestions provided by others are also valid, we need something that doesn't force us healers to timeskip our roleplay just to get things done. We want to go through this process, interact, provide ourselves progression, and also be able to go and tend others rather than "You'll have to wait because we're timeskipping 2hrs ahead because magic". We're not suggesting we make healing instant, we're just trying to make it more convenient for ourselves and those we heal. As such in case it wasn't clear, recovery time and the rules should still be adhered to as to avoid powergaming or just jumping 'right back' into the fray.

That's my opinion on it, many methods can easily improve balancing or make it more fun, there were suggestions earlier to help with that. However, just shortening the time and clarifying certain things to make it more convenient and interactive doesn't immediately unbalance it.

 

[Magivore]

"My counter response is that those who receive healing will not all adhere to this rule. In recent times CRP is lasting a longer period. If someone were to be healed by a mage then they would rush right back into the fight with a few options. Either they "time skipped" the healing, they forgot/ignored about the long period of healing, or they chose to "let the wound" reopen so they can play their badass power fantasy. With this in mind I see that change being easily abused."

People shouldn't be jumping back into a conflict period after just being healed. I'd suggest making a ticket if it were the case or anything questionable arose. "Either they "time skipped" the healing, they forgot/ignored about the long period of healing, or they chose to "let the wound" reopen so they can play their badass power fantasy. With this in mind I see that change being easily abused." People will do this regardless and could do this in the present system. Changing the time to take less has very little impact on this and again only affects the fluidity of the roleplay. The two hours as a whole does little to affect balance either other than make it to where they can't rapid heal in a clinic full of wounded. It's really only there to balance it between traditional medicine, even then the impact on balance is fairly small. However I would appreciate feedback on the subject of how what you feel concerned about can be remedied, any suggestions constructive to the purpose of the thread etc.

In regards to feeling cheated about someone you've practically murdered being able to walk after fifteen minutes-- What is the difference between that and two hours? The logic of them waddling about after two hours still applies in the present application? (Though I'm not certain they should be.) Hours as opposed to weeks is still very short in terms of healing. The only impact this has is making the other party request a timeskip or the healer in question suggest it. (I've seen a quite a few celestial mages themselves request timeskips.)

And this isn't about timeskipping the wound itself. This is about timeskipping the process of healing the wounds as taking two hours to sit in a clinical room is dull and does not provide much roleplay. The primary issue is the fact it takes two hours to heal. There is very minor difference between it taking five minutes or two hours. The end results are still the exact same as it is. The primary impact is the quality this has on roleplay. The balancing factor of this is very minor and other methods can and could be made to balance it with traditional medicine to make it more unique and keep the fluid movement and quality of the roleplay intact.

The subject of this thread is to provide suggestions and avenues of keeping the roleplay value intact without others having to suggest or ask for timeskipping. Retain balance, keep it creative yet unique and different from Traditional Medicine.

I would also like to request those commenting with their opinions and disagreements on the thread after explaining what they disagree with to also provide suggestions and features to fix what you disagree with. Example being; You disagree with how this affects balance. Provide ideas and suggestions as to how to keep balance intact. New features methods of healing etc. @Miss_Ortonnaise @Wumpatron @ElderShrub @Magivore

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We really don't need any change. This long time prevents you from 100% saving the lives of everyone in a hunting party if your healer survives, and it also prevents that issue of people suddenly reappearing back into battle (which I feel you're underestimating as an issue). Once again, magic should remain something very special since anyone can RP being a medic, but not everyone can RP as a Celestial mage. If you insist on decreasing the time, maybe make it 1 hour instead. Remember that this change affects demon mages as well since the Aderla spell basically copies the Mending spell. If I can fix organs and undo permanent joint damage, I think I'm fine with heading for a time skip when I'm 100% sure both the caster and the victim are safe. Sometimes you have to give up cooler/'fluid' things for the sake of balance.

 

[Conflee]

As such in case it wasn't clear, recovery time and the rules should still be adhered to as to avoid powergaming or just jumping 'right back' into the fray.

That's my opinion on it, many methods can easily improve balancing or make it more fun, there were suggestions earlier to help with that. However, just shortening the time and clarifying certain things to make it more convenient and interactive doesn't immediately unbalance it.

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A lot of agreement to the last bit. I think even as it stands if healing is time skipped the rule should be you cant jump back into the same interaction you were in pre-skip. Or in general if you time skip its generally good etiquette to not leave an interaction, go do something for like 10 minutes and time skip something else, then walk back and rejoin. It brings a bit of disparity and draws attention to the whole, meta nature of time skips. So as it stands now if someone skips healing they should be told to just, go away if they try to rejoin a fight, and ticketed if they refuse.

But beyond that it is just a lot less jarring if there isnt as much reliance on having to time skip in the first place. Making the time halved, adding an OOC bit on the wiki page about "healed" vs "recovered" so players still at minimum have to deal with recovery times even if their characters are more or less alright- something about added strain during recovery making the injuries way way worse or something then calling people out who ignore that aspect on a case by case basis. And making it so healers can talk while healing I think is still a thing that should exist.


Just as an example to clarify how I imagine it working:

My character, Alsic, gets shot in the left leg by a crossbow, then someone comes up and kicks the bolt thats still sticking in mid-fight. My character crawls or is dragged away, and finds a Celestial mage who begins healing. The mage begins the incantation and afterwards starts asking about how it happened, and some other small talk. Forty minutes later, I am fine to limp out, the external injury sealed with a red scar, and most of the internal damage mitigated. If my character gets in any fights within the next week though, his leg is going to 'reopen', causing the scar to inflame, and basically make his leg useless again.

This stops most of the issues with powergaming, and allows roleplay to play out more smoothly.

Edit: did a dumb. Meant to say this fixes the immense feeling of boredom when being healed. Because a- theres at least a possibility of RP. b- it doesnt take an eternity. and c- the powergaming bit is that the recovery time is enforced strictly, so anyone who is a jerk and tries to abuse the system gets slapped.

We really don't need any change. This long time prevents you from 100% saving the lives of everyone in a hunting party if your healer survives, and it also prevents that issue of people suddenly reappearing back into battle (which I feel you're underestimating as an issue). Once again, magic should remain something very special since anyone can RP being a medic, but not everyone can RP as a Celestial mage. If you insist on decreasing the time, maybe make it 1 hour instead. Remember that this change affects demon mages as well since the Aderla spell basically copies the Mending spell. If I can fix organs and undo permanent joint damage, I think I'm fine with heading for a time skip when I'm 100% sure both the caster and the victim are safe.

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What your talking about is just powergamers. Any system on the server can be abused by powergaming- thats what powergamers do. If it happens, just ticket and they get told off by staff or temp banned. Also, internal organ damage should be enforced with much longer recovery times, and especially any injury to the spine or back.

As for regular healers no longer being useful- there will at max probably be one or two Celestial mages in all likelihood. It requires passing for Trustee and not having any other mage character. Where as literally anyone can throw together a healer with a backstory and age that supports them being masters at surgery and medical stuff. Traditional medicine RP is also more engaging giving talking is usually an option as it stands, and it has actual stuff to emote instead of "mumbles in alien for an hour+" . Traditional healers will still be more reliable to locate, and more readily available, so it doesn't really detract from that section of RP as much.


Tl;Dr - Any time time skips are abused, it should be the player who does it held accountable and punished for their powergaming, not all the other poor blokes who just dont want to sit for three years doing nothing lest they be called powergamers.

 

[Wumpatron]

My forums are rather odd currently, so reading the comments has been a blur of quotes and new information mixed into one, but the common theme I see are not wanting to time skip and people not wanting the two hours. Now, this is where I briefly mention that as a Celestial Mage this means that your roleplay ability is seen as high enough to provide a quality experience for others and the ability to balance the ability IG.
Now, at face value I will admit that the two hour time appears very dramatic and ridiculous. But understand again, that this is designed so that people cannot reenter combat scenarios or intense action rp when they are taken out of it. The healing prevents others from reengaging. That is the key difference. If I practically kill someone, then I can accept them being walking in two hours, because if the scenario comes to that then the attack was greater than just randomly killing someone. This can be either a two sided conflict, a raid, etc. The context is irrelevant, but no one should be trying to kill someone for the sake of just trying to kill them, there should be more motivation and Celestial Magic ensures that the party who did the heavy maiming can fulfill what they intended to do while the victim can live another day.
This is what I would advise to all Celestial Mages, find a balance. Create an engaging roleplay experience within fifteen minutes or twenty minutes, then explain how this process would in all actuality be significantly longer than what you portrayed. I mean, I did tattoos in roleplay. Tattoos that using the lore compliant methods of a sharpened stick and ink would have taken well over five hours. Yet I was able to do it in ten or fifteen minutes. Engage with your patient, because roleplay should always be two sided. You emote or speak and then your patient can either emote a response or speak. That's where the development comes from, not from the process. And you can fit in a lot of development in that fifteen minutes. Find a balance, and keep the roleplay fresh. Understand that the system is designed to prevent it from being abused.

 

[Conflee]

Now, this is where I briefly mention that as a Celestial Mage this means that your roleplay ability is seen as high enough to provide a quality experience for others and the ability to balance the ability IG.

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As far as Im aware from what I have read in this thread so far you aren't able to talk because you have to keep the incantation going the whole time or whatever. Might be wrong thats just the impression I have gathered.

 

[Wumpatron]

As far as Im aware from what I have read in this thread so far you aren't able to talk because you have to keep the incantation going the whole time or whatever. Might be wrong thats just the impression I have gathered.

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That becomes a matter of concentration. There's a ten second casting time where you can't talk or do anything else, but do the incantation. For the next hour or so is the healing which very loosely requires you to focus on the healing. Look at it like surgery or painting the Sistine Chapel. It requires heavy focus, but you would be able to speak, just not go into deep detail or what have you. But you can always utter out sympathetic phrases like "You're going to be alright" or the more pretentious "You're lucky I found you when I did." It's all a matter of working around the limitations and strengthening what you are able to do.

 

[Lizmun]

As far as Im aware from what I have read in this thread so far you aren't able to talk because you have to keep the incantation going the whole time or whatever. Might be wrong thats just the impression I have gathered.

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As wump said, you probably can talk. And usually I have Abigail do so as she heals, just for the sake of Rp. Usually just more simple talking, I guess. Nothing in depth - she could hold small talk, but not really go anywhere past that.

I'll formulate a much more lengthy response to the post as a whole and such later now that I've finished finals and my holiday break has started.