Archived Buying Power

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Chris Knight

Chris Knight

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Before the actual suggestion, a few tips:
  • Read the whole suggestion, not just the first sentance.
  • if you are incapable of typing more than the word "no", dont bother posting. give reasons why you disagree.
  • be open minded, consider different points of view.
if you can't follow these simple tips, there is a back button in the top left of your internet browser.

Now for the actual suggestion.

Have a system where factions can buy power to claim land. it should be cheap, maybe 5-10 silver per power/chunk. many of you may think this would produce many extreamly large factions. and it definately would, but that isn't necesarily a bad thing. what would you rather see in Massivecraft, dozens of half abandond wilderness towns, or a couple large, well developed cities.

I noticed there are dozens of players with thousands of Silver each. the fact is, there is nothing to spend that Silver on. this will give them something to spend it on. this idea in combination with taxes on chestshops will help fix the Massivecraft economy.
 
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There is Regalia, but after that, there isn't anything to spend money on. 10 silver a chunk would be perfect. Some factions don't want to invite players, but they want to expand. If they have the money, they should be able to by power. This would go in 'Power boost' that some factions (the event based ones and ones like wilderness). It would say (+<However much power is bought>). I love this idea. But, something negative would be that if factions can by power, if they're rich enough, they won't invite players. Then, we get a whole bunch of factionless players, they quit, the server loses revenue, and it dies. We don't want that, but I doubt that will be the case. You can only get 10 power with 100 silver, so yes, this is a good idea.
 
I support this, it sounds great
 
This is definitely something I would look in to - and not because I have silver lol! I can, however, see someone like Igel_Son spending 5k silver to buy 500 chunks of land, which would be bad. Perhaps have a cap on the amount of land you can buy extra without more players? Like double the amount of land a faction has the power to claim (10 member faction can buy 100 chunks and claim 100 chunks, totaling at 200 chunks max claimed). Just to prevent 1 member uberfactions (like some guy with, say, 50k silver buying up and entire continent or region).
 
So long as it doesn't allow people to go over 3x more land than power I think it would probably work.
 
Sounds good, make sure to make that bit obvious or people wil start screaming "OP!" before you can take a breath.
 
I would support this with minor changes. As mentioned before, the X3 limit could not be exceeded, and I would suggest that the cost be 20s per 1 power, which would make it the same cost to add land as to create a 1 person faction. The cost may have to be adjusted to find a balance between buying power and increasing power by recruiting members.[DOUBLEPOST=1355646894][/DOUBLEPOST]Your tip "suggestions" wasted more of my time than the number of irrelevant posts would have. These tips belong in the forum description not in a post.
 
many of you may think this would produce many extreamly large factions. and it definately would, but that isn't necesarily a bad thing.
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Lolol, yes it is. Someone who has a lot of silver can control a large section of the map.

hat would you rather see in Massivecraft, dozens of half abandond wilderness towns, or a couple large, well developed cities.
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Well, yes but silver isn't the easiest thing to get hold of and it would be unfair for new players.

Also, something to note:
We have brought up suggestions for Factions to Cayorion and he refuses to edit Factions at all until Server Sharding is complete.
When Factions V.2 is being created we'll take suggestions.

As for this suggestions, I disagree.
Nice suggestion though :)
 
I disagree, there is no basic upkeep beyond the first price and I doubt people would want to pay repeated amounts of money to keep up additional land they could also just get by recruiting.

The way factions are balanced now is that they actually have to recruit to stay out of the redzone and not be contacted by administrators.

Large cities over many small abandoned factions doesn't hold up as an argument if you consider empty large cities with 3 faction members are boring as hell.
 
faiyde sp04 said:
So long as it doesn't allow people to go over 3x more land than power I think it would probably work.
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Yes, I think 3x cap would be a good limit.

Tom1804 said:
Well, yes but silver isn't the easiest thing to get hold of and it would be unfair for new players.
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To be honest, I think it should be in favor of older players. We build up our money and factions threw hard work and dedication. if someone can join this server and immediately be viewed as equals to the richest player, or the strongest player, then what's the point? if you want newbies to be equal to the veterans, get rid of MCMMO, and give them a fee godsword while your at it.
 
You're saying that we should favour older players more? I disagree. All players should be equal.
 
The older players that actually work deserve to get more. The newbies that just joined and haven't done anything should not be equal to those that have worked. Saying that, why don't we make all players OP? Why don't you give them all abilities to hack? Why do we ban hackers? Aren't they equal?
 
The biggest deathtrap in MMO servers is having older players become horrendously overpowered compared to new players.
 
MonMarty said:
The biggest deathtrap in MMO servers is having older players become horrendously overpowered compared to new players.
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and hypocrite of the year goes to...

Obviously we wont make them horrendously overpwered. Its not like I'm suggesting an ability to shatter diamond armor, or make unarmed fighting more powerful than a godsword, or give double and tripple drop diamonds, its just bigger factions.
 
I would never care to try if I didn't start out as a minority. The only thing we need is equal opportunity, they get the opportunity to become powerful, and if they take the opportunity, they do. If they don't take the opportunity, they remain a minority. The older players are more powerful, but that's because they're older. They've been on the server longer. The younger players are weaker, they haven't been on the server as long. The older players dedicated to this server and want to make it great, should be able to. Those players that join for a week and quit, should n't be called equal.
 
Eyebrows J. said:
I would never care to try if I didn't start out as a minority. The only thing we need is equal opportunity, they get the opportunity to become powerful, and if they take the opportunity, they do. If they don't take the opportunity, they remain a minority. The older players are more powerful, but that's because they're older. They've been on the server longer. The younger players are weaker, they haven't been on the server as long. The older players dedicated to this server and want to make it great, should be able to. Those players that join for a week and quit, should n't be called equal.
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exactly. I started playing only a couple weeks after the server started, but I remember when Igel_Son joined. he had a small wilderness town in Binral got raided by Vrykolakas everyday, and got griefed quite often, but he took the opotunities he saw, and became one of the richest people on the server, with one of the biggest factions.
 
If your looking for equal power, go play on a CTF or PVP server where everyone starts out with the same stuff. This is an survival server, its pretty obvious that the longer you play the richer you'll get.
 
I think both sides have valid points. The most notable problem in my opinion is not quite the equality factor, as I feel the progression on this server is decently balanced between accomplishment and overall approachability for new people. While there's still the 3x land vs power limitation, if you have 500 power for example (which is a reasonable number to obtain through active recruiting), that gives people who can afford it 1,000 extra land claim in addition to the 500 for their roster. The size of that potential additional claim is enormous, and more importantly it would likely go to waste. Even with 50 members gained through traditional recruiting methods, it's unlikely they'll be actively building on and upkeeping all 500 chunks of land, let alone 1500.

For that reasoning I have to say no to the idea. The concept itself is actually fairly reasonable, as anyone could still recruit new members and get "free" land claim, which will naturally already be enough workable land to sustain them at 10 chunks per person. If a group of people is able to have the productivity and resources to develop a massive amount of land claim on that kind of scale, then I'm sure they can also recruit enough people to claim and sustain it without any trouble, with the silver going to something else more time-sizing like building materials. I'm not entirely against the idea of purchasing land in moderate situations where it's actually used and developed. The system as it is now already allows more than enough extra undeveloped claiming due to many people coming and going from the server in just a matter of days. Making overclaim easier than it already is (for people who can afford it) will just increase the amount of claimed and undeveloped faction land.
 
But we're talking 10-15 silver per chunk. To get 1000 land would cost 10,000-15,000 silver. The average player only has 100-200 silver. That would only get them 6-20 more chunks. The top faction, Fuschia, has 61722 silver can buy 6172 chunks. But igel_son doesn't need that.
 
Why shouldn't someone with a lot of silver be able to control large sections of the map? People in real life that have a lot of money control large things. This would also allow for some more depth to the rp as a rich player could have large farm fields, numerous mines, herds of cattle and foresting camps. I think that someone of great wealth in medieval times could have such things as these and employ workers to work their lands. There are countless examples of how this would be beneficial to rp and it would not favor old players or new players unequally. This is because the older players with the silver to afford such things would have a way to not only spend their silver, but to perhaps make more silver and the newer players could have a job such as a miner, farmer, or lumberjack working for the older players until they had enough money to purchase land of their own which they could do with as they please.
 
Why does all the land need to be developed anyway? I personally think that most successful nations generally aim to have an IMMENSE buffer zone around their settlements. Great Britain is on an island. The US (when it was smaller) had an entire ocean and mountain ranges between it and anyone else (namely, Europe and the Spanish/French colonies). Russia (even today) has large amounts of undeveloped land within its 'claimed territory'. The stronger nations, regardless of population, always aim for that buffer zone to keep out enemies and develop later on.

That said, I also find vast cities with only a few people in them to be very boring (one of the reasons I left Osion, besides the griefing) and do agree that this idea does have flaws. Perhaps instead of doubling the amount of claim possible, have 1/2 the amount. That is to say, faction A has 20 members, so they have a 200 land claim and can purchase 100 more chunks for a total of 300 chunks of possible land claim. To further add to the difficulty and restrictions, each chunk costs 15 silver (1500 for all 100 chunks of buy-able land).

On the 'this favors the older players' comment... I apologize for my following statement in advance. This server has no right to say that older members shouldn't be favored. They already are, in so many ways. As time passes, you gain wealth (useless really)(*cough*x_sam_boy_x *cough*), power (mcskills)(1 hit kills much?) and a reputation (*cough* most Argonians *cough*). Why shouldn't older factions, which have proven their strength and endurance against the test of time, be allowed to buy some extra land?

Finally, and in summary: I do think that this should be looked at and considered by the admins as a viable way for people to spend their hard earned silver. So long as enough limits are placed, it will not become overpowered or obnoxious. And older members are already favored by the very nature of the game (and server) so that is a moot point.
 
I am too lazy to quote right now, but yes, you dont have to develope and build in it, it can serve as a buffer zone. many people claim what they can, build a wall, to protect them, then run out of room when more people join.

if a faction can claim a large area, fortify it, and develope a good sized city, people will WANT to join that faction, rather than having to constantly recruit.

Also, as I was reading Mecharics point, he (possibly unintentionaly) brought up a good point, it FAVORS old players, its not overpowered in any sence, no more than premium perks anyway. and in my opinion, just playing on this server for so long is more than worth a few perks. where would we be if nobody played this server?
 
I wasn't quite as clear as I should have been with wording my thoughts. I'm not trying to imply that every faction should have every last block in every chunk maintained and built upon, but the thing I do want to avoid is having a faction sitting around on 1,000 chunks of entirely ignored land, with only their core 500 chunks being half developed on (Using the 50 member example). Leeway is needed both visually (for artistic spacing and land expanses) and strategically, so people can't tower up a bunch of blocks next to your wall and jump inside.

As mentioned before, on a moderate scale I do like the idea. This change would only impact people who have a decent stock of silver available, since realistically paying 5/10/15 silver per chunk is not even an option for the average person. Recruiting people to get that 10 land claim per person would still be free. The people who can afford it would also be more apt to use it on a larger scale, which would be the point of purchasing extra land without the membership in the first place. While it's unlikely it would be abused within the 3x claim rule, and thanks to the high cost involved, eventually someone would take advantage of it which is why this needs to be put into consideration now. If the idea is implemented, considering the factors in advance helps problems be entirely avoided (that's also why open discussions like these are good).

Echoing Mecharic's thoughts a bit, if there was some degree of limitation so people could still have the option to purchase reasonable quantities of extra land if they could afford it, then I would be in support of the idea. I could see a faction wanting to limit their population to a core group of active members and not wanting to hold a lot of inactives in their roster, and in turn this would give them a way to boost their land claim without having to mass recruit.

Using the 50 member example one more time, I could see purchasing an extra 250 chunks even (rather than 1,000 via the 3x rule) on top of their default 500 being a reasonable enough quantity, if they so desired to spend a lot of money on that much extra claim. It could also act as a early boost to small factions with plenty of funding, who don't want to increase their roster until they have a decent sized base prepared for future members and recruitment. Recruiting would still flatly be the most attractive option, because at the end of the day new members would still be "free" land claim.

With some kind of fair limitation in mind, to help ensure these purchases would be functional and not just for the sake of having more land, I would be in favor of the idea as it would be very helpful in some situations and yes, it would give people who can afford it something to use excess silver on. Since factions tend to actively recruit and gain power anyways, this would basically act as an early land buying feature and would help remove some silver from the overall economy at the same time, which may improve it a bit in the process.
 
Oh, a note: this would allow for REAL trading factions to form. Currently, most trading factions I've seen don't trade that much, they just create an RP illusion of trade. With this, they would be able to use their trading nature to expand their faction territory, which would expand the faction itself.
 
Faction functions are at a complete standstill untill the entire re-write of factions, which is still quite a while away since we have other plugins to work on.

That being said, I am fervently against this idea as I believe land "power" as the word implies expresses your ability to defend the land claimed in numbers. I don't find it reasonable that a small amount of players has a large area claimed while a larger amount of players has a smaller amount of land claimed, just because they posess less money.

The process of decay and breakdown of fame/power is intended because nothing in MassiveCraft is everlasting and permanent, ruins of old factions serve as foundations for new to come, and the weak factions die off to form carcasses for new to grow.

The concept of having premiums be more "landclaim power" has come up in discussions multiple times, but as the first line in this post suggests, put back on the shelves untill we actually get to remaking factions.
 
In truth, a new player will always be disadvantaged against an older player, even if identical in equipment. Why? McMMO. Grind up those levels, and you'll stand a much better chance at winning.
 
AstartesTemplar said:
In truth, a new player will always be disadvantaged against an older player, even if identical in equipment. Why? McMMO. Grind up those levels, and you'll stand a much better chance at winning.
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In truth, a new player will always be disadvantaged against an older player, even if identical in equipment. Why? Alliances, experience and reputation are major factors in a role-play server. Not that McMMO skills don't make survival easier so that more time can be spent in role-play. This translates into better fighters for those role-playing soldiers, but also better farmers, miners, foresters, and builders.
 
5 silver per chunk? Then i can buy 1300 chunks to have for myself :P
 
Alright, so it seems like the major issue is already large factions gaining massive amounts of land ontop of what they have (50 member example.)
Solution: Add a hard cap to the number of chunks you can gain. Keep the 1/2 limit already suggested, then hard cap it at say 300/400/500 chunks. Once you've bought the hard cap's worth, you can never buy chunks again, regardless of how much silver you have.

Additionally, or instead of, use an exponential cost for chunks. Every chunk you own (bought or not) increases the cost of the next chunk. By that point a 50 member faction may need to spend upwards of 1000s per chunk, because they can afford it. An exponential cost even fits nicely with RP as it simulates the ever increasing costs of expansion.

I also realize it won't happen at least for some time due to Factions changes being put off till later, but I was surprised neither of these ideas came up yet.
 
We'll consider this idea, but it is likely that during the factions overhaul some sort of auto decay will be implemented.

I'm going to lock this thread and keep it in the accepted suggestions for now to prevent it from being deleted.
 
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