Archived Bridging The Divide (pvp/rp)

[Winterless]

I've had many discussions with many different players(Traxex20,Tokugawryuu,Durialbabes, etc.) and basically we have come to the conclusion that there should to be common ground found between PvPers/Factions Players and Roleplayers. People have opened up dialog about this issue (Ben, I'm looking at you) but I don't believe it was ever taken further. Basically my idea is to make a server event that happens whenever there is a significant world-progression event (such as a significant battle, or something like when the Qadir attacked Regalia) that involves actual PvP (With themed God Armour and Weapons/High-Tier Iron Armour and Weapons given to participants so that there is no gear loss), with the outcome of the battle determining the lore of the event. For example, if the Qadir attacked Regalia and the Qadir won the siege (Or Vice Versa), it would affect the world progression. There could also be a system implemented in which highly skilled characters (in RP) are given buffs such as extra health, speed etc. if they are not frequent PvPers and aren't proficient enough at it to befit their character. The event could be advertised for some weeks before, to allow people to decide which side they want to be on (With sufficient balancing, of course. There can't be a 75 vs 25 fight lol). This fight could take place at whatever location suits the world event, such as Regalia or a sufficiently large enough plains area. Skilled/Notorious PvPers (such as myself kappa) would be delegated to either side for balance if they choose to participate in the event in order to make it fairer. Rewards for this event could include items (such as lored God Armour, Weapons etc for the survivors of the event) or significant events in a character's life that could contribute to their backstory and/or Character Application. The only limitation I could see for this event is lag, which would potentially make this idea nonviable.

 

[65jes89]

Honestly I think silverwind should be put on the top priorities. Pvp at this point completely lacks any purpose since the economic factor of it is pretty much gone, and I most certainly wouldn't mind some pre-set large-scale pvp events. And hell, even if lore staff didn't want an event to determine the outcome of their world events, it would t exactly be difficult to low-key rig the event in one side's favor.

I'll make an actual post later when I'm not on my phone xP

 

[Winterless]

Honestly I think silverwind should be put on the top priorities. Pvp at this point completely lacks any purpose since the economic factor of it is pretty much gone, and I most certainly wouldn't mind some pre-set large-scale pvp events. And hell, even if lore staff didn't want an event to determine the outcome of their world events, it would t exactly be difficult to low-key rig the event in one side's favor.

I'll make an actual post later when I'm not on my phone xP

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Well when you think about it, simply writing about the world progression event kinda rigs it as well given that it is entirely down to the person writing it's preference as to who will win.

 

[Zacatero]

If roleplayers want to be realistic and dont want to fight.. why not be realistic and have nobles pay for people to go war for them. There could be a pvp tournament where all the competitors are backed by noble families and the outcome is cannon in a progression.

 

[TheOverseer__]

+1 on this idea.

The event with Baver recently was well balanced. Everybody died, but no items dropped. The server right now, has a very PVP vs RP feel to it, but if Nobles held tournaments in their family names or hired mercenaries to fight certain battles for them etc then that would encourage PVPers to participate a bit in the role play world and RPers to interact with the Factions world. Battles and tournaments like these could be set to no item drops just like the Baver event so that when everybody dies, there is no saltiness. Perhaps a "death" in a battle like this could equate to an "injury" in a RP world.

There is a large discussion to be had around all of the mechanics for how this might work, but entertaining it in some way would be probably be beneficial for the server.

I personally would love to "sail my warship into the Regalian harbor and watch the crowd for that perfect desperation that says 'I need someone to die'"

 

[Winterless]

If roleplayers want to be realistic and dont want to fight.. why not be realistic and have nobles pay for people to go war for them. There could be a pvp tournament where all the competitors are backed by noble families and the outcome is cannon in a progression.

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That is also a good idea.

 

[leichendame]

I think this is all a very good idea though perhaps the events that @Synthesia stated should be about the Ch'ien-Ji-Wulong and Dwarf-Dakkar conflicts as they will not affect people who poured hours into Regalian nobility as much.Also maybe as an idea whenever Regalia invades somewhere maybe a PVE event against NPCs?

 

[FireFan96]

I'm going to post the Silverwind page, since it seems to be a good idea that would do this.
https://forums.massivecraft.com/thr...ds-for-pvp-and-rp-alike.38220/page-2#comments

I know @65jes89 already made a post on the exact same thing, but figures the link would help.

 

[Ddafad]

If roleplayers want to be realistic and dont want to fight.. why not be realistic and have nobles pay for people to go war for them. There could be a pvp tournament where all the competitors are backed by noble families and the outcome is cannon in a progression.

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Such an idea is already in development. See the Silverwind post above.

 

[Winterless]

I'm going to post the Silverwind page, since it seems to be a good idea that would do this.
https://forums.massivecraft.com/thr...ds-for-pvp-and-rp-alike.38220/page-2#comments

I know @65jes89 already made a post on the exact same thing, but figures the link would help.

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Have they actually held an event in Silverwind?

 

[Zacatero]

Have they actually held an event in Silverwind?

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I dont think silverwind is finished being built if i remember correctly

 

[Herecy]

It would help if the pvpers helped to bridge the gap as well, for example with wrath I attempted to create a faction with background and a mix of players that had a purpose (before I went inactive for 2 weeks :/ )

 

[Winterless]

It would help if the pvpers helped to bridge the gap as well, for example with wrath I attempted to create a faction with background and a mix of players that had a purpose (before I went inactive for 2 weeks :/ )

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I tried to start up a Deldrimor RP family, but uh, that didn't work. I do try and RP every now and then (I've got an approved char for said RP family) but it seems most PvPers aren't overly enthusiastic with Rping.

 

[HeartAched]

I tried to start up a Deldrimor RP family, but uh, that didn't work. I do try and RP every now and then (I've got an approved char for said RP family) but it seems most PvPers aren't overly enthusiastic with Rping.

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yea

 

[Herecy]

I tried to start up a Deldrimor RP family, but uh, that didn't work. I do try and RP every now and then (I've got an approved char for said RP family) but it seems most PvPers aren't overly enthusiastic with Rping.

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Its not necessarily role playing, for example in wrath we were the demons of aloria (not approved) and everyone knew who we were because of the small posts I made on the forums which its a shame I didn't get to post my whole story before I went inactive but you have to give your faction depth and meaning

 

[Phon_Senajan]

but it seems most PvPers aren't overly enthusiastic with Rping.

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Not to mention some of the PvPers see themselves as superior to RPers, and call the RPers weeaboos on a regular basis.

 

[Winterless]

Not to mention some of the PvPers see themselves as superior to RPers, and call the RPers weeaboos on a regular basis.

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So do RPers, lol.

 

[TheOverseer__]

So do RPers, lol.

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Not to mention some of the PvPers see themselves as superior to RPers, and call the RPers weeaboos on a regular basis

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^^^ Part of the problem ^^^

I don't see the same us vs. them. I'd invite any way to bridge the divide between RP and PVP and that starts with being cordial!

@YouMakeMeRaugh Synth has been active in brainstorming solutions to this problem, do you have any ideas? I'd love to hear the take of an active Roleplayer in how we can make our currently fractured system come together.

 

[Aespair]

Not to mention some of the PvPers see themselves as superior to RPers, and call the RPers weeaboos on a regular basis.

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On the same token, I've seen instances where RPers view PvPers as barbarians.

For pete's sake people, just accept that other people have different pastimes than you lmao.

 

[Aespair]

If roleplayers want to be realistic and dont want to fight.. why not be realistic and have nobles pay for people to go war for them. There could be a pvp tournament where all the competitors are backed by noble families and the outcome is cannon in a progression.

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I like this idea.

 

[Phon_Senajan]

@YouMakeMeRaugh Synth has been active in brainstorming solutions to this problem, do you have any ideas? I'd love to hear the take of an active Roleplayer in how we can make our currently fractured system come together.

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While the comments above could potentially be the bridge we need, the real problem I'm seeing is that the people of 2 sides hold a sizable ego and constantly hating on each others for various reasons (myself included, confessing it right here). I don't think there's anything that could help alleviate this except for everyone to just chip off their own ego and hatred and try to improve on traits that made the other side dislike them in the first place. Seems pretty far fetched but that's my 10 bucks, since the two sides act as two seperated communities without anything in common that they could agree to have fun on.

In short, even if a bridge is built, the people have to stop throwing crap at each others to make it truly safe to cross. It needs co-operation from the community as a whole.

 

[TheOverseer__]

While the comments above could potentially be the bridge we need, the real problem I'm seeing is that the people of 2 sides hold a sizable ego and constantly hating on each others for various reasons (myself included, confessing it right here). I don't think there's anything that could help alleviate this except for everyone to just chip off their own ego and hatred and try to improve on traits that made the other side dislike them in the first place. Seems pretty far fetched but that's my 10 bucks, since the two sides act as two separated communities without anything in common that they could agree to have fun on.

In short, even if a bridge is built, the people have to stop throwing crap at each others to make it truly safe to cross. It needs co-operation from the community as a whole.

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That is exactly what we are suggesting, sir. Us factions goers are expressing a desire take a larger part in the lore of the server by holding bridged PVP/RP friendly events.

Some of the suggestions were
-Give buffs to RPers who have special lore in the RP world to balance the fight a bit
-Make items not drop so that RPers don't have to spend extra time/effort in gather the resources required to be successful in factions PVP and we as PVPers would have to seek such contracts by roleplaying with you.
-Allow special events where RPers could safely interact with PVPers for tournaments etc. The RPers could hire certain PVPers as champions in their houses' name
-There may be more that I am forgetting

PVPers are often pushed away from the RP world because they feel as though they have spent a great deal of effort in mastering a gameplay element of Minecraft only to be defeated by somebody who wrote "draws their sword and quickly decapitates them+"

I am not even a PVPer, I am more of a merchant in the factions world and I am frustrated that away from the factions world the fact that I have 10's of thousands of regals and several grand ships out in the waters and stacks upon stacks of all kinds of resources, I am merely a peasant in RP land. I've spent hours on unarmed combat and have an McMMO score of over 1k, but I could not win a bar-room brawl in RP land.

All we are doing as factions goers on this thread is providing suggestions on how we think we can reconcile these things and become more active in RP.

All I am asking you now is from somebody who is strictly a role player, how can we get YOU involved in factions? and what do WE need to do for you to accept us being more active in Roleplay?

I am not asking with any sorts of hatred or shoulder chips- We value your opinion- What are your ideas on how we can integrate our worlds in a more fluid way instead of continuing the trend of segregation and hatred?

 

[Winterless]

While the comments above could potentially be the bridge we need, the real problem I'm seeing is that the people of 2 sides hold a sizable ego and constantly hating on each others for various reasons (myself included, confessing it right here). I don't think there's anything that could help alleviate this except for everyone to just chip off their own ego and hatred and try to improve on traits that made the other side dislike them in the first place. Seems pretty far fetched but that's my 10 bucks, since the two sides act as two seperated communities without anything in common that they could agree to have fun on.

In short, even if a bridge is built, the people have to stop throwing crap at each others to make it truly safe to cross. It needs co-operation from the community as a whole.

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I roleplay every now and then, I have an approved character, and I'm also a prevalent PvPer. I hold no issue with RPers, other than those that flame PvPers on a constant basis. This server could be infinitely better if these two play styles were bridged.

 

[Winterless]

That is exactly what we are suggesting, sir. Us factions goers are expressing a desire take a larger part in the lore of the server by holding bridged PVP/RP friendly events.

Some of the suggestions were
-Give buffs to RPers who have special lore in the RP world to balance the fight a bit
-Make items not drop so that RPers don't have to spend extra time/effort in gather the resources required to be successful in factions PVP and we as PVPers would have to seek such contracts by roleplaying with you.
-Allow special events where RPers could safely interact with PVPers for tournaments etc. The RPers could hire certain PVPers as champions in their houses' name
-There may be more that I am forgetting

PVPers are often pushed away from the RP world because they feel as though they have spent a great deal of effort in mastering a gameplay element of Minecraft only to be defeated by somebody who wrote "draws their sword and quickly decapitates them+"

I am not even a PVPer, I am more of a merchant in the factions world and I am frustrated that away from the factions world the fact that I have 10's of thousands of regals and several grand ships out in the waters and stacks upon stacks of all kinds of resources, I am merely a peasant in RP land. I've spent hours on unarmed combat and have an McMMO score of over 1k, but I could not win a bar-room brawl in RP land.

All we are doing as factions goers on this thread is providing suggestions on how we think we can reconcile these things and become more active in RP.

All I am asking you now is from somebody who is strictly a role player, how can we get YOU involved in factions? and what do WE need to do for you to accept us being more active in Roleplay?

I am not asking with any sorts of hatred or shoulder chips- We value your opinion- What are your ideas on how we can integrate our worlds in a more fluid way instead of continuing the trend of segregation and hatred?

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RP Combat at it's core isn't that hard or daunting. It just requires writing. The issue arises when people God-RP and say "Well my character's approved so I beat you cause in his app it says I'm good at combat." or say "draws sword and instantly decapitates without any resistance."

 

[ChairThief]

To truly come to a peaceable solution to this issue, you're also going to have to acknowledge and respect that not everyone wants to PvP.

It's all well and good if you make the PvP community a more welcoming place for roleplayers that are interested in getting involved in more intelligent and creative ways, and I appreciate your putting in an effort toward that end.

However if you want to really get to the bottom of this, you're going to have to think about the crowd that doesn't like PvP, full stop. Not just roleplayers, but everyone who doesn't care for it.

I'm more than willing to respect that other people have a different play style than I- it's fine with me that some enjoy PvP, and I'd never ask to take it away from the people who like it. However their play style should not be allowed to infringe upon mine- I, and any others like myself who simply don't wish to engage in PvP, have just as much of a right to play how we have fun playing.

Bottom line, I think to start closing that community gap in the most effective way, all sides of the conflict between these play styles need to be evaluated and considered. Offering RP options in PvP activities for those who enjoy both RP and PvP is great. I have no quarrel with the notion. But what about those who just want to RP? Or even just those who want to be unharassed while they build or farm or explore?

PvP is always a very popular addition to games, but it can be extremely intrusive to other playstyles, and if we're trying to talk about community peace, these topics can't be ignored.

 

[Winterless]

To truly come to a peaceable solution to this issue, you're also going to have to acknowledge and respect that not everyone wants to PvP.

It's all well and good if you make the PvP community a more welcoming place for roleplayers that are interested in getting involved in more intelligent and creative ways, and I appreciate your putting in an effort toward that end.

However if you want to really get to the bottom of this, you're going to have to think about the crowd that doesn't like PvP, full stop. Not just roleplayers, but everyone who doesn't care for it..

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I never said people should be forced to do this event. Perhaps a way to encourage PvPers to Roleplay could be to allow significant factions in the Factions world to influence the Lore and World Progression events that occur. I believe that if this was implemented, factions like Raptum and Wolves/Deldrimor would roleplay with their faction families, Raptum as Al-Raptali, Deldrimor/Wolves as Viserion.

 

[Winterless]

But what about those who just want to RP? Or even just those who want to be unharassed while they build or farm or explore?

PvP is always a very popular addition to games, but it can be extremely intrusive to other playstyles, and if we're trying to talk about community peace, these topics can't be ignored.

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About building and farming and exploring, it is in a Factions world, and so by playing it you are agreeing that you may be killed because after all (and sorry for using a toxic saying), it's Factions.

 

[Phon_Senajan]

allow significant factions in the Factions world to influence the Lore and World Progression events that occur. I believe that if this was implemented, factions like Raptum and Wolves/Deldrimor would roleplay with their faction families, Raptum as Al-Raptali, Deldrimor/Wolves as Viserion.

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Exactly the idea that I've been having throughout the day before posting.

So this is what I've got apart from personal desalination I've mentioned before.

We could have factions count towards character wealth and combat prowess (such as people who own big factions being recognized as rich high class people and the pvp elites being recognized as powerful warriors) in their character sheets along with their written stuff if they do make them. And have another section where you create a separated sheet for the factions to be officially recognized in the RP lore as hamlets, kingdoms, townships, and the like (like the family sheets section). This should attract both the PvPers and general factioners into the RP scene and encourage more RP people to go out and play their factions more as to finally validate their story outside of Regalia. And the factioners can have their own RP and events that transpired in their own territory.

And I've had the same idea as you in the OP, having a war event (can be world progression or simply between high-tiered, registered factions) that RPers can participate as their characters or simple army troop for both sides (with custom gears provided and no item drop like you've said). As well as factions being able to set up their own events such as tournaments, festivals, undead siege, and so on, like with Kniferharm and her elven kingdom faction almost 2 years ago. She did a very good job at wiggling her faction into the scene.

@MrTylerGreen What do you think?

 

[TheOverseer__]

Yeah, I think I am hearing pretty loud and clear that any PvP events related to lore would be optional. My hope is that we could make this all so fun that we all wanna do everything! Pipe Dreams

I wasn't around for that faction. What did that boil down to? A faction whose members just traditionally all had Character sheets? Is there anything special that they did to get involved as a faction? If I wanted to invite role players to our villages or ships, how would that work? Do I just go to regalia and say "You wanna take a ride on my boat?" or is this forums based? How does one get a RP event going?

 

[Phon_Senajan]

I wasn't around for that faction. What did that boil down to? A faction whose members just traditionally all had Character sheets? Is there anything special that they did to get involved as a faction?

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Well, Kniferharm and her co-leader has character sheets, and she gets involved by hosting several events (what I remembered was her wedding and a PvP tournament). And when we were having World Progression War in Daendroc she had her input as a smaller elven kingdom lending aids and such to the civillians struck by war. I couldn't remember her faction name but I saw it doing both PvP and RP.

If I wanted to invite role players to our villages or ships, how would that work? Do I just go to regalia and say "You wanna take a ride on my boat?" or is this forums based?

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And if you want to invite people, well, some factions do get their members through RPing and "inviting them to live together" and inviting them to the faction altogether (as in "moving in" of sorts I think?). But this is up to what you want them for, this is for the "joining faction" purpose. And if one's faction is counted as legit, they could like, write up their backstory to be from there? I'm going to need some more specification if I'm to give clearer input.

How does one get a RP event going?

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I've never done this myself, but basically you contact an RP staff or game staff that you're going to have an event on [insert date here], providing them details and the like (to get their help about things and prevent disruption). And announce it on the forums lore & announcement section like with other events. Providing time and place for such and maybe a warp. The rest is up to how you plan it, a generic party festival interrupted by a surprise undead horde? A coronation of your new faction leader and suddenly a disgruntled officer attempts a coup?

 

[Savantly]

I've had many discussions with many different players(Traxex20,Tokugawryuu,Durialbabes, etc.) and basically we have come to the conclusion that there should to be common ground found between PvPers/Factions Players and Roleplayers. People have opened up dialog about this issue (Ben, I'm looking at you) but I don't believe it was ever taken further. Basically my idea is to make a server event that happens whenever there is a significant world-progression event (such as a significant battle, or something like when the Qadir attacked Regalia) that involves actual PvP (With themed God Armour and Weapons/High-Tier Iron Armour and Weapons given to participants so that there is no gear loss), with the outcome of the battle determining the lore of the event. For example, if the Qadir attacked Regalia and the Qadir won the siege (Or Vice Versa), it would affect the world progression. There could also be a system implemented in which highly skilled characters (in RP) are given buffs such as extra health, speed etc. if they are not frequent PvPers and aren't proficient enough at it to befit their character. The event could be advertised for some weeks before, to allow people to decide which side they want to be on (With sufficient balancing, of course. There can't be a 75 vs 25 fight lol). This fight could take place at whatever location suits the world event, such as Regalia or a sufficiently large enough plains area. Skilled/Notorious PvPers (such as myself kappa) would be delegated to either side for balance if they choose to participate in the event in order to make it fairer. Rewards for this event could include items (such as lored God Armour, Weapons etc for the survivors of the event) or significant events in a character's life that could contribute to their backstory and/or Character Application. The only limitation I could see for this event is lag, which would potentially make this idea nonviable.

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The issue with the division between Roleplayers and Pvpers, is that generally pvpers are trolls and Roleplayers are complainers. The two make for a very poor Chance for coinciding in the factions worlds. If you want to address the issue. Pvpers need to use good judgement for what is appropriate and what isn't. On the other hand Roleplayers need to stop complaining so much. After that only can we build a bridge over the gap together.
But as for incorporating pvp with roleplay, yeah this idea is great, but it's only a stepping stone. To truly allow for people to work together in a pvp/rp atmosphere you have to allow people to have an impact on each other. Allow for pvp to have an impact on the lore. That is when you will have Roleplayers working together with pvpers, only when they have a goal that needs more than one set of skills to accomplish.

 

[Winterless]

Yeah, I think I am hearing pretty loud and clear that any PvP events related to lore would be optional. My hope is that we could make this all so fun that we all wanna do everything! Pipe Dreams

I wasn't around for that faction. What did that boil down to? A faction whose members just traditionally all had Character sheets? Is there anything special that they did to get involved as a faction? If I wanted to invite role players to our villages or ships, how would that work? Do I just go to regalia and say "You wanna take a ride on my boat?" or is this forums based? How does one get a RP event going?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the real risk with these sort of events is that no one turns up lol

 

[Winterless]

Exactly the idea that I've been having throughout the day before posting.

So this is what I've got apart from personal desalination I've mentioned before.

We could have factions count towards character wealth and combat prowess (such as people who own big factions being recognized as rich high class people and the pvp elites being recognized as powerful warriors) in their character sheets along with their written stuff if they do make them. And have another section where you create a separated sheet for the factions to be officially recognized in the RP lore as hamlets, kingdoms, townships, and the like (like the family sheets section). This should attract both the PvPers and general factioners into the RP scene and encourage more RP people to go out and play their factions more as to finally validate their story outside of Regalia. And the factioners can have their own RP and events that transpired in their own territory.

And I've had the same idea as you in the OP, having a war event (can be world progression or simply between high-tiered, registered factions) that RPers can participate as their characters or simple army troop for both sides (with custom gears provided and no item drop like you've said). As well as factions being able to set up their own events such as tournaments, festivals, undead siege, and so on, like with Kniferharm and her elven kingdom faction almost 2 years ago. She did a very good job at wiggling her faction into the scene.

@MrTylerGreen What do you think?

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It's always irked me that some of the richest players on the server are poor in RP, it never quite made sense honestly.

 

[Phon_Senajan]

The issue with the division between Roleplayers and Pvpers, is that generally pvpers are trolls and Roleplayers are complainers. The two make for a very poor Chance for coinciding in the factions worlds. If you want to address the issue. Pvpers need to use good judgement for what is appropriate and what isn't. On the other hand Roleplayers need to stop complaining so much. After that only can we build a bridge over the gap together.
But as for incorporating pvp with roleplay, yeah this idea is great, but it's only a stepping stone. To truly allow for people to work together in a pvp/rp atmosphere you have to allow people to have an impact on each other. Allow for pvp to have an impact on the lore. That is when you will have Roleplayers working together with pvpers, only when they have a goal that needs more than one set of skills to accomplish.

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exactly what i was trying to relay

 

[Savantly]

exactly what i was trying to relay

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And a good point at that mate

 

[Savantly]

Yeah, the real risk with these sort of events is that no one turns up lol

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I personally believe that the best way to get Roleplayers and Pvpers together is by allowing factions to become lore compliant. That way, wars that pvpers create will affect the world that Roleplayers live in. In a way forcing Roleplayers to cooperate with pvpers to advert threats from any possible world domination factions.

 

[Jacobcraft04]

my fac is lore compliant. its a RP rebel group.