The title says it all, but I think it's time to bring Elytras back to the survival worlds of MassiveCraft. They've been gone for over a year. And a lot of the discussion of bringing them back has dropped off to near nonexistent. So I think it's time to talk about them again. With ya know, a whole year going by and all. I personally enjoyed them for flying around the worlds and visiting bases I didn't have close transportation to at hand, and flying to abandoned bases with the dynamic map to do some looting. The biggest reason they got removed in my understanding is that they were broken in PVP. I never personally used them in PVP, because I was not PVPing at the time (blame a crappy laptop that gave me unplayable frames for PVP). I would personally test them now and record a video for all, but I can't, on account of them being disabled. These are the two relevant threads on the forums discussing elytras and PVP: https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/combat-tag-elytra.54258/ https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/pvp-builder-survival-friendly-fly-mode.60383/ This is a relevant comment by @Omnomivore from the first thread I linked above. I'm not sure what to make of parts of the statement above, since if it was brought to Direction staff for consideration, a decision to the best of my knowledge was never handed down to the player base. As a solution to the issue of them being labeled as overpowered in PVP, the proposed combat tagging of the item is in my view the best solution. Once someone is combat tagged, do not allow the elytra to be equipped. You could also toy around with the idea of once someone becomes combat tagged, the item automatically becomes unequipped. Yes, this would mean if you were in the air and got shot with a bow you could plummet to your death, but it does offer a degree of risk when using an elytra to take off from an active battle with enemies outside looking for you. If someone with an elytra manages to escape to an area where they feel confident they won't be shot at, teleporting out is vastly safer if their goal at that time is simply to escape to safety. Either elytras should be used only to fly into and out of a fight with the great risk of being shot down (combat tag unequips item in this solution), or elytras should just not be able to be used once combat tagged (combat tag prevents the elytras from being equipped once combat tagged in this solution). I think it's just time to give some consideration to adding them back. Anything that spices up PVP is not a bad thing. If it's obvious it's broken upon adding it back, find a fix, but don't remove them. Fixes are the way to solve the issue, not completely removing the broken element and never revisiting it. @MorgothTheDark @Zacatero
You should add a poll, so people can vote and the results are immediately seen, We should bring back Elytras so long as you can't use them to escape, and even then I'm not sure I'm against that use because you have to switch out a chestplate for the elytra. Anyways, yes please Massive, give us our wings back! LET US FLY!
If somebody wants PVP they won't be coming here because there are other PVP servers that don't do what we do and do it better so I don't think it's smart to try and conform to other servers when it might be the reason that ours isn't working. So when people trying remove the things that make our PVP unique I don't think it's a good idea Plus I still stand by my statement from before that the only reason it was removed was because PVP players were upset that their targets could easily escape and they were unable to get all of the kills anymore Tldr.. bring back elytras cuz it shouldn'tve been removed and it can be pvp tagged
Nah there's no option at the bottom when I go to edit like their normally would be when you post the thread. Only thing there is if I want to watch the thread and get notifications on comments. The poll isn't a big deal. It would only show the people that play MassiveCraft that also use the forums that also viewed this thread, an extremely small subset of all the people who play on Massive.
Elytras create false positives and if they start to glitch they'll spam the anticheat with suspicious movement, making people who actually use hacked clients harder to detect because it's hard to distinguish through the anticheat if the person is hacking or just glitching because they are stuck in a block. Which is probably another reason they removed them(?)
Then it would seem Massive has a really shitty anticheat? I mean if its not updated for post 1.9 behaviors... then Massive should really look to upgrade. And if thats not the case and Massive uses an anticheat that HAS been updated properly to post 1.9 then Elytras wouldnt cause that issue
If you don't plan on coding an anticheat it's not going to be supreme quality in which I highly doubt MassiveCraft has done because they don't have a huge problem with hackers I've messaged a staff today about it in Regalia and they appeared to have an (The person who I thought was hacking) elytra on and were glitching and he/she said that she/he checked the anticheat and said that it was most likely because of the elytra that he/she was getting false positives (I have screenshots although I'll be keeping him/she anonymous as I don't want to point fingers at people and haven't got their permission to post the chat in here. I might blur the name if you desperately want to see it) If you're going to be glitching back and forth in the air, the anticheat will obviously be suspicious because it can't look into the persons client to see if they are using a hacked client.
Well Elytra isnt fully disabled so it wouldnt make a difference to the anticheat if its added back fully vs how it is now anyway
Ok, so say the anticheat does create false positives when people use elytra. It's on the staff to investigate said player triggering the anitcheat and decide if their using hacks or its just elytra flight. If you're worried about hacking in PVP, I'm confidant a fair number of player reports against a player who is suspected of hacking would accompany the anticheat proc, which would then lead pvpers fighting the player recording the fights to submit as evidence and a staff investigation of the accused player. At the end of the day, the system would work like it should, so there'd be nothing to worry about. Possible false positives can't be the deciding factor in something getting enabled or not.
You know a hacker who gets banned doesn't mean they're gone forever, they use alts (Everyone knows that) I legit see hackers as viruses as in real life, more specifically the flu and the cold kinda mixed (I don't know, I'm not a person who studies this type of stuff) Hackers will keep coming back if they realize that a major flaw is in the anticheat system; sure, the help of players being honest is amazing but keep in mind you might just be reporting the same hacker that you've posted 5 reports about. If a hacker finds an easy target on a server like MassiveCraft (Which isn't an easy target), the server will go to shit if their anticheat is practically useless or if they can blame "I have a elytra so I am not hacking!" Hackers spread quickly and with one of Minecraft best servers has completely fallen into only averaging about 4000 players a day (They once had 30,000 players but all just moved somewhere else) it just proves a point that you cannot rely on players to report hackers. You can't just be ignorant and say "Meh, players will always report" which they do but sacrificing an anticheat over an elytra isn't the smartest idea to me... They probably can't update to the newest because of their plugins not supporting them because they'd need to be updated too, although I don't know.
This seems like a very small reason to Not have this feature. I'm sure a lot of other things give false positives for the anti-cheat So unless we are going to try and get rid of those as well, this argument doesn't really hold up
Also I would like to point out that anti-cheat had nothing to do with the reason it was removed in the first place
(Can't reply phone is acting stupid) Anyway, I didn't state it was the main reason I am just wanting to point out that that there are probably other reasons to remove it other than combat logging.
The main reason was because people could easily escape with them. Any argument that says it's because they provided an offensive advantage to pvp is simply unfounded. I am actually pretty good at elytra pvp and even then it's still very difficult because if you aim down toward people on the ground... its also actually the way you start to fly so it's hard to aim a bow and control your flight in a way that makes it ideal... Nobody has yet to convince me that they weren't removed simply because raiders were upset that people were able to escape and they could not get their kill
I don't want to this thread to dissolve into an argument over one specific detail, but I am going to respond to this. I have only ever been a part of the survival and PVP community on this server. No RP. I can guarantee you that multiple people will report someone once their are suspicions of them hacking. The staff then take these reports seriously and investigate to the level needed. MassiveCraft has had its fair share of hackers plague the PVP community, and has never fallen to a wave of hackers as you so claim other servers have. Your argument that if one player starts hacking that a ton more will come and hack is pretty unfounded, considering I can remember times when very prominent PVPers were banned for proven hacking and either never came back or stopped hacking. You're splitting hairs over a detail you argue should prompt elytras removal or in this case not even allow them being added back. An detail that wasn't even mentioned when they were initially removed because it wasn't even existent or significant enough to be a contributing factor. And me being "ignorant" and saying players will always report is how these players get on the staff radar in the first place, because all PVPers know, for as many times as an anticheat created a false positive on someone, it's also missed a clear as day hacker. Had players not reported, the hacker would still be hacking away.
Ignoring your philosophy on hacking, it doesn’t really matter because that’s not why elytra were removed, or at least the primary reason. They were removed because they were perceived to be used to escape combat after firework boosters were added. Hacking is really not a major problem on massive. It’s always been around yes, but never with a large enough presence to really matter, and so elytra interfering with anticheat is a very minor issue in my eyes. As I’ve said on previous threads, I’m all for elytra being readded; I think the ability to travel and setup raid ports more easily far outweighs the one or two randoms who get away from you while raiding who probably didn’t have anything anyways.
I think I made a post somewhere over half a year back saying that the whole team essentially decided to have it made combat pvp flagged, but since then we've not seen Cayorion back or any other coder gain access to the code that would allow them to change it. I'll try and negotiate a day of coding from Cayorion away from his job, but it's a bit of a wrestling match with logistics and I can't make any promises.
I'd love to see this be re-added. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't care to explore anymore due to the fact that Elytras were disabled. I really hope they return.
But theyre pointless without Its hard to offensively pvp with them and harder than you think to escape if youre already being attacked
I would like to see Elytras added as more of a transportation tool, nothing much else. I am either uninterested in using an elytra in those rare times I PvP and I'd rather use them just to jump of the Enigma walls and enjoy the view. Elytras would make transportation slightly easier and I see no reason for the rocket boosters or whatever they're called to be added. I'd be afraid that they would just be used as some kind of "ejector seat" in PvP to get you out of a sticky situation. Keeping PvP competitive and enjoyable should be a goal for everyone and while adding elytra rockets to the game may be fun and enjoyable for some, I find that the majority of PvPers will just find them annoying and is just giving them a reason to point at a person and shout "noob" and "git gud", whatever they say these days. But yeah, I do agree that Elytras should be re-added without those rockets involved. I see no game breaking effect in them.
The attackers have a slight disadvantage if somebody catches wind of you coming with enough time. If you are already being hit, it makes your ability to take off about 10x as hard. It's not like the attackers are DYING because of it. You arent being killed and your stuff isnt being taken. Its just somebody escaping. And quite frankly that is a minuscule part of the elytra community. You have to remember that by putting on an elytra you are relinquishing your chestplate spot. Thats already less armor. So if you are melee'ing somebody with an elytra on you already have an advantage over them. So please stop bringing up how occasionally somebody can successfully escape when in reality, the offensive players still have the advantage
elytras are impractical in pvp, with or without fireworks. You might get one shot off out of 10, which is more or less pointless. There is no reason to use elytra in pvp other to escape, which should not be a thing. Elytras should be used for transportation and messing around, nothing more, and fireworks aren't really needed for transportation all that much, bow boosting works just fine, just slightly slower. I think removing fireworks and adding in elytra is a more than fair compromise.
But its not really. You are wasting durability on a bow and shooting yourself. And half the time it doesn't ACTUALLY work. I think the disadvantages to having an elytra on are worth the fact that 1/10 can escape a fight.
Anyway would could test this? I know obviously not on MassiveCraft since elytras are disabled, but if there's somewhere we can test this multiple times, I can record all the test and edit them into one video so people can see some examples of attempting to fly out of battles, quickly switching to elytras during fighting to fly out, flying into fights, etc.
Maybe just make it so you can't use rockets while having an elytra equipped? People still like hosting events with firework displays.
Punch 2 unbreaking 3, no power/flame + projectile protection and you'll have no problem with health as long as you eat. It worked just fine before firework boosting was added. Punch 2 is pretty cheap and easy to get anyways. As long as it wasn't incredibly laggy, I never had any real problems with it. You have to get the timing right, but once you figure out the timing you can pretty consistently hit it. yea of course
But you still havent convinced me that, even though elytra wearing players lose an armor spot AND they wouldnt be able to take off if pvp active, that its still in inconvenience if we have the fireworks too
I think elytra and fireworks together is fine. While I haven't done any aerial fighting in a good long time, I found it to be more of a gimmick than a legitimate way to get kills (ie, you couldn't kill people fast enough for them to heal again) Perhaps I'm not seeing the reason for why there is opposition to elytra with rockets. If a punch bow is fine, why not rockets if they do the same thing? Sure, argue that one is faster than the other, but what benefit does that serve other than you can't hit the elytra and the elytra can't hit you? It's the flywater argument all over again from where I'm sitting. I just want to know where the argument is coming from.
if i could choose i would choose this option: the same as backpacks, elytra automatically disable upon player damage. maybe this could make for fun scenarios where someone is flying around and then you shoot them out of the sky like duckhunt, once your arrow hits them, their elytra is suddenly disabled and they just fall. regarding rockets: i think they're very important to elytra fun. i like to use the elytra to visit and admire other peoples factions, and to get to high up building locations without having to nerd-pole. without rockets its not possible to get the inertia required to get high enough to continue a tall build (or cut down a massive tree from the top without leaving an ugly flying mess).
I believe gethelp deemed this impossible. They COULD limit taking off as pvp active but couldnt stop you from flying if you already were
