Game Staff Restructure: Changing Strategy And Future Content Updates

Discussion in 'Faction Announcements' started by MonMarty, Sep 9, 2019.

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  1. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    This is more of a general post that tackles a couple of management concepts on Massive, as well as a more cohesive content overview that I think is long overdue. I'll tackle the content bits first, and then skip over to the management parts, because I think some of them are a bit bitter to some, but hopeful to others, and I should like to have enough time to properly explain the points made in there.

    1.13 what's the hold up!
    So, when I took over the server from Cayorion just about a year ago now, Cayorion told me that I should not venture to update to 1.13. He told me that it would be too difficult, that his in-house plugins present too many problems, bla-bla-bla. He was essentially advising us to stay "legacy" forever. I think at a certain level, I agreed with him at the time, but ComputerGeek made a strong case that he felt capable enough to update the suite. At the time, he made a convincing case, and I agreed and gave the go-ahead. Against all odds there, Geek started updating the plugins, the very thing Cayorion thought he could not do.

    With that in mind however, 1.13 is a massive update. I don't pretend to fully understand the tech behind it, but from what I have grasped is that all internal plugins essentially have to be "rebuilt" from under the hood, the way commands interact with plugins was changed, and so it's not something as simple as just changing a few lines of code, Geek has to often structurally tackle the plugins themselves in terms of function and responsiveness. Naturally this takes a long time, with the added benefit that if/when it is completed, that updating to 1.14 (should) be a breeze. I still recall it usually took Cayorion 3 months to update everything, and even then that wasn't as much of a magnitude update as 1.13.

    For the time being, there is a lot of pressure and strain on Geek, who gets barraged on the weekly with "Are we there yet" by Direction and staff and I imagine players alike. It is not a fun place to be, to be the person everyone looks to for that liberating news, but I still have realistic hope that it's coming, and if I cannot, then my other Directors have already looked into alternative contingencies if 1.13 isn't working out how we planned. Even with that in mind, I've started rearing server finances to consider hiring external coders so that we can produce content in the width, instead of relying on high intensity coding for content production in height. The server has money, and I haven't spent it myself, it's sitting in a bank account ready to be re-used to make the server better for the players (besides existing as a 2 year safety net to keep the server running).

    Long story short: It's coming, and even if it's not, I have contingency plans to make sure it does, juggling around legal obstacles and what not. We're not allowed to share our plugin code from Cayorion with anyone but Geek and Birb, which makes it very /very/ hard to actually hire outside coders, but we're resourceful and in the worst case scenario, we'll think of some way. Here's a quick overview of what's what:

    • All external plugin review is done. There are some that still need updating, but Birb has been maintaining local forks on the ones he can, and finding solutions for the plugins that are dead (PorteCoulissante for example is dead). External update is at about 85% last I checked the update sheet.
    • MassiveChat, MassiveMoney, MassiveVanilla, MassiveTraits, MassiveTagAPI and MassivePVE are currently undergoing testing.
    • FactionsDynmap, MassiveAnnounce, MassiveBooks, MassiveCombat, MassiveCommands, MassiveDisguises, MassiveElytra, MassiveEvents, MassiveGates, MassiveHat, MassiveTickets, MassiveLag and MassiveMobRestriction are done coding, but testing has not yet started.
    • MassiveBasic, MassiveCore, MassiveLock and Factions are currently undergoing post-test modifications, meaning they are basically done.
    • MassiveIntStat, MassivePerms and MassiveSharding is declared 100% done.
    • MassiveMarriage, MassiveShop, MassiveSigns, MassiveSugarRush, MassiveVote, MassiveWelcome and MassiveWhat update have not yet started.
    • MassiveQuest will be temporarily disabled upon updating to 1.13 since it's a huge plugin that requires a seperate update cycle. Will this cause Dungeons and such to temporarily break when 1.13 hits? Yes. But we hope the 1.13 content and some other things we can still do with MassiveGates will compensate for this.
    As one can see with the sheer amount of plugins of which the coding is done, Geek has made amazing progress, and it's coming, we just really can't say when.

    Marty, you're losing Game Staff, should I be concerned?
    In the shortest sense, no, unless you really like doomsday predictions. When I started my internal restructure, I spoke with directors, and we said to ourselves "In the current prognosis, we only need 5 Game Staff to keep the server operational, nmot 19", and that maintains itself. I chose to let two Game staff members go, shuffled two to other departments, and 2 resigned on their own accord. I expect there will be more resignations, but many of them resign or get moved out for a variety of reasons. Frankly, I think my rule restructure has been met with great success, Game staff aren't spamming warnings and punishments anymore, there seems to be far less gripe and spite between players and staff, and while some individuals are experiencing a worsened experience because against all better judgement they refuse to empower themselves with the ignore feature, I would say that is a resounding success. Less bans, less anger, less crime. To those who still think the rules regarding the Ignore feature is a failure I say that the server is not responsible for the fact that you can't live without knowing what others are saying about you. As server owner, people are wagging their tongues about me literally everywhere, and I haven't the energy or the morale to keep up with what everyone says, and to a certain degree, I've also chosen to accept that what is being said in that sense is also not worth anything. The ignore feature is empowering. Monica Lewinsky says so, and she is the queen of fighting back against e-bullying and character assassination.

    Anyway back to the topic at hand, losing Game Staff. Is this concerning? No. I'll tell the players when it is concerning, but for the time being, some Game Staff are taking really well to the new structural approach of how I want Game Staff to function, others less so, and I expect there may be more resignations in the future, but I am still committed to working with the people we have now, and trying to get them on my track.

    Dungeons!
    Yes. Dungeons. There is very little to say about Dungeons. Last week I said I would try to finish it, and I sort of it, but we decided to tack on more content than was intended. Essentially:

    • Jaehaerys finally delivered the dungeon in full to Quest staff for finalization. His dungeon coding work needed to be re-done so that is still on its way.
    • MonMarty's dungeon was done last week, we sat in a meeting and discussed the quest features in it. Last I heard the Quest staff is moving the dungeon back to the live server, which means good progress has been made.
    • Long story short. I promised one Dungeon sort of last week, we're getting 2 Dungeons pretty soon. I will say, Jaehaerys's dungeon looks a lot better than mine, mine is based on a 3 year old build that was intended for Addrion to make a Dungeon out of back in the day, but the point here is to create a clear outlined process to help Game (and other departments) understand how easy and quick it is to produce Dungeons, so more can be made.
    PVP, Try to service the PVP!
    So, yes, but also no. For the last months/years maybe even the service rush was always cornered around PVP. PVP'ers didn't like something? Remove. PVP'ers wanted something? Rush it through. PVP this, PVP that. And to a certain degree it worked. I can't complain about the positive feedback and personal PR I got from that community for working on and releasing the End. As marred as it may be considered now. But when it comes to quid pro quo, it's not really a salvageable business practice to be singularly focused on PVP. Whenever there is a trait consideration, it's always from a PVP angle. Whenever there is a mechanic consideration, PVP is the first one that gets the attention. This is a far cry from how it was many years ago, but perhaps in some way, it's time to consider that this was the wrong direction to take management.

    PVP has value, absolutely. And PVP should get new content, absolutely. But focusing so singularly on PVP has done more harm than it has done good. I think it has certainly bred a culture where screaming loud gets what you want done faster, but also created a situation where (for the sake of pvp) features were removed or disabled that other players loved, which drove them off the server. In the end, you have to play a careful balancing act between groups who all want to take the server in their own desired direction, and perhaps we've been too permitting. Or rather, I've been too open to prophets and messiahs joining Staff proclaiming they were going to save Survival, and because of my own lack of interest, just giving them free-game to drive it further into the ground as they narrowed it down to what they wanted it to be, instead of staying broad for everyone.

    Now, I can predict the dark cloud of pessimism hanging over any PVP'er reading this. Is Marty turning Massive into a roleplay server? Fuck no. The impact on PVP for prot5 donation items is till gate-kept by PVP. 65Jes is still working on a KOTH plugin (until he decides that he isn't). Traits still undergo PVP oriented balancing in terms of the MassiveCombat department. 1.7 PVP is still "our PVP" (even if it would be 200% easier for me to just tell Birb and Geek not to update MassiveCombat and accept Vanilla PVP). What I am saying is that I would like to see if we can steer the ship back into what it used to be, 7 years ago.

    This was a time when the worlds of MassiveCraft felt alive because there were people. Not necessarily just PVP'ing, but also just building, trading, roleplaying. I feel that, over the years, small things have built up that led to complete disenfranchisement of the larger part of the community, because Staff have been so hell-bent on servicing one aspect of survival that the rest was practically ignored.
    So what does this actually mean?

    Well, let's tackle a big idea that was shoved recently. Peaceful Factions. One might easily predict the first response: "But PVP'ers will hate that!" and that was the end of the discussion, proverbially speaking. That would have been, if "PVP will hate that" was still the end-all argument to everything, but I am changing the through process in staff to make sure that it isn't, because let's examine the case of the peaceful factions:

    • Peaceful factions existed in 2013, and it worked fine, until it didn't. A bunch of players used lava buckets to kill people in PVP, and then hid behind a Peaceful setting.
    • From a mathematical point of view, having players in survival is beneficial. It makes survival feel alive. Does having a faction exist in peaceful kind of suck because you can't raid them? Yes. But what sucks more? Not having them in survival at all.
    • A faction that is peaceful now, does not need to be peaceful forever. It can, once entrenched and settled in survival, choose to participate in faction wars later.
    • We can serialize the system to limit peaceful settings by questions such as: Are you a roleplay faction, is us giving you peaceful going to result in players coming back/actually being in survival, and then testing it in hindsight to see if it tangibly led to an increase of players.
    The Game Staff have been instructed to throw the old through process out of the window and open up brainpower for a wide range of options that were previously shut down with the end-all argument "PVP won't like this". Again. re-iterating, this will not mean we're turning the server into a roleplay server wholly.

    The primary objective of this is to try and draw players to survival, instead of spending 90% of the time working on the experience of the players already there, and then going like "hurr durr why survival not grow", when some of those changes inherently actually discourage players from trying out survival.

    Attract players first, change the game play later, instead of changing the game first and then asking why no new players show up. And in the meantime, produce content for everyone for those who can/are willing, keep making KOTH, keep balancing Traits, keep making systems that encourage late game interactivity.

    Peaceful factions will show up, in some form, soon. Private island maps are coming also, real soon (needs a bit of price adjustment).
     
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  2. Chappers

    Chappers Refugee

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    @MonMarty

    Would it be like before and you have to pay for peaceful status?
     
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    #2 Chappers, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  3. SirePyro

    SirePyro The Definition of Insanity

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    It's actually pretty disorienting, albeit in a refreshing way, to see you consistently address issues which are complained about between me and other non-staff, and which I had frankly assumed were going ignored by the administration. I very much appreciate your willingness to attack issues like this, and I hope you keep it up!
     
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  4. Violettee

    Violettee Not Registered

    Chappers makes a good point, why not allow Factions to acquire Peaceful Status through some sort of payment(lump sum or tax), giving them incentive to work towards Regals in their early days. Let's say they're also dynmap hidden because they're new too. Should be an easy enough task. Their faction's are already free and you can't force your way into a claimed base.
    I know if you make it too cheap, loads of people will do it, and I get that it needs to be low for new players to not be discouraged. But at least this way factions that identify themselves as PVP factions can still knock on each other's door.

    or are you going to force us into using the End? PVP enabled zones? KOTH in the faction's world? General capturable points on the map?
     
    #4 Violettee, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2019
  5. Ninja124r

    Ninja124r brainlag

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    Kidmodo Slave of Raptum

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  7. morrc5

    morrc5 mmmmmmmmm

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    5d17c0b88585d.jpeg
     
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  8. Ridgee

    Ridgee P.I.

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  9. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    I think it's an interesting proposal. But I think to start off, it would not be realistic. This is mostly about attracting people who never set foot in survival right now, and that goes off the assumption they also don't have money, as such. We can worry about the way it's going to interact with the rest of the survival world /after/ they are in the world. The primary objective here is to just get people into survival.
     
  10. Zacatero

    Zacatero Regalian High Lord

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    Is there more information on this idea? Like will it be a similar system to the aforementioned peaceful factions?
     
  11. Zacatero

    Zacatero Regalian High Lord

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    Payment for peaceful is just like the max tribute system. It only makes the aggressors, who don't lose as many items and have the weapons to attack, richer while the defenders who often don't have much to their name anyway, have to shell out for peace so they can even get setup. Like the factions with the most money are the ones who would never buy that ability.
     
  12. Violettee

    Violettee Not Registered

    Hm...You're making another 1.12 Map right? Why not have: Ithania (Beginners) (Peaceful) and then Essalonia (Advanced) (PVP-Enabled)? Allow people in Essa to also claim in Ithania if they wanna prioritise builds or offer a noob friendly sect to their factions.
     
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  13. Violettee

    Violettee Not Registered

    Hence why I said make it cheap but to get people into the idea that they need to to a bare minimum. Gets them into a practise.
     
  14. Zacatero

    Zacatero Regalian High Lord

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    I think one thing that has advanced since the last time this was discussed, is the fact that if I get combat tagged and then run into a peaceful zone, I'm still combat tagged. So that form of abuse really isn't possible anymore.
     
  15. ZiHAMMER

    ZiHAMMER Violettee is a transgender

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  16. Zacatero

    Zacatero Regalian High Lord

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    Also @MonMarty what about popular mods? Some mods like Schematica are not updated beyond 1.12.2
     
  17. grizenator

    grizenator Refugee

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    Disappointed feeling
     
  18. Violettee

    Violettee Not Registered

    Bad lion client has a version of schematica for the new versions. However mine is bugged but others works so think its hit and miss.
     
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  19. ZiHAMMER

    ZiHAMMER Violettee is a transgender

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    brexit
     
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  20. 65jes89

    65jes89 Leader of SunKiss

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    I mean seems rather unreasonable not to update based solely on not having schematica
     
  21. MyCatBubbles

    MyCatBubbles Massivecrafts Schizo

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    Litematica, different to use, does the same things tho
     
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  22. Winterless

    Winterless The MVP of Romance RP

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    Badlion Client.
     
  23. Jalapeno690

    Jalapeno690 Doge of Helvetica

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    @MonMarty what do you mean when you say cay advised to stay “legacy”
     
  24. onearmsquid

    onearmsquid Dragon of Semperis Supremium

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    Means to stay at 1.12.2 forever
     
  25. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    Cayorion didn't have any faith in Birb and Geek to update the plugins. He suggested we stay 1.12 forever. I told him I disagreed and greenlit Geek's updating of the plugins for our own internal fork. It should be noted there that Cayorion barely ever was in contact with Geek and Birb, and routinely underestimated their capabilities.
     
  26. Jalapeno690

    Jalapeno690 Doge of Helvetica

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    Yea I get that, was just curious for a more in-depth explanation
     
  27. Jalapeno690

    Jalapeno690 Doge of Helvetica

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    1.12 forever would have led to further stagnation, times move on
     
  28. wowMuchMine

    wowMuchMine

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    Something like this please
     
  29. Zacatero

    Zacatero Regalian High Lord

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    Not saying we shouldn't update.. I was just curious
     
  30. Zacatero

    Zacatero Regalian High Lord

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    But isn't the purpose for it all to be in one world? The issues that the peaceful factions fix, wouldn't be applied to Essalonia, that map would continue to experience the issues.

    I like the idea a lot but I'm curious if having two worlds defeats the purpose. Like Eotor was essentially a peaceful factions thing and it didn't last long
     
  31. Jalapeno690

    Jalapeno690 Doge of Helvetica

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    Eotor never took off in my opinion as no one knew what the fuck it was there to achieve or to serve as, was a Luke warm idea that had potential but was poorly executed
     
  32. Winterless

    Winterless The MVP of Romance RP

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    Eotor didn't take off because it wasn't finished
     
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  33. Jalapeno690

    Jalapeno690 Doge of Helvetica

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    Mr game staff please re-read what I wrote, “in my opinion” thank you, next
     
  34. Winterless

    Winterless The MVP of Romance RP

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    I mean, sure, but I'm free to give mine in reply.
     
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  35. Violettee

    Violettee Not Registered

    Eotor never went live. You could go there but it didn't function. You couldn't do anything there. A few people had stuff built for them by staff there in prep for it to go live but never happened.
     
  36. Violettee

    Violettee Not Registered

    Right so, from what I can tell Marty essentially wants to wean people back into Survival and the practise of Factions.
    Most people are put off by or struggle to survive (at least in their first days) with PVP and being raided. If Marty can populate a map and people can establish themselves well enough and learn the server then he can flick the switch to allow pvp at a later date.

    HOWEVER

    Marty also mentioned pvpers would complain. People who enjoy playing factions as... well factions. Groups pitted against one another in competition (Blessed War) then they won't be forced to change "game mode" for the sake of new people.

    And people who join who have played hardcore factions or other, get the choice.

    NOW I know a lot of people might desert Essalonia if this scenario were to take place but some will remain.
     
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  37. Winterless

    Winterless The MVP of Romance RP

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    Yeah, I don't think a system like blessed war would work well if there were peaceful facs around instead of a peaceful world. It would put you at a disadvantage to not be peaceful since you could just build up a massive army of farmers and destroy everyone economically and no one would be able to stop you
     
  38. Zacatero

    Zacatero Regalian High Lord

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    Also from what I understand from the idea, Peaceful is a misnomer. It usually refers to the flag that is edited to make it work.

    Peaceful = Players are peaceful. You cant attack these members no matter where they are. This is the "Truce with everybody" flag
    PVP = Land is peaceful. You can't attack anybody while on this faction's land. Members of this faction can be attacked when off of their land.

    So is the idea suggestion factions with Peaceful enabled? or PVP disabled? I personally think the latter makes more sense
     
    #38 Zacatero, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  39. Violettee

    Violettee Not Registered

    Blessed war should 100% only apply in Essalonia.
     
  40. Ellimairy

    Ellimairy Sophia Du Polignac

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    Nice
     
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