Raise Faction Cost

I completely agree. There are so many tiny factions, I can barely find good space for another. Most only have 1-2 members, and none are particularly active.

Now, I did think that 2000r was a bit much for a faction (I'm a role player though, so what do I know? :D). Instead, I think it should be 800-1000r to start a faction, and the tax should stay the same.

If a faction doesn't have enough Regals for a tax payment, is the faction disbanded? If so, then maybe hike up the taxes to kill off any factions that can't support themselves.

 

I tottaly agree with this, I dont personally own a large faction but these small factions that only have a 1r a day up-keep have littered the maps. People spend 1 week on the server and then go inactive and their faction sits around for half a year. I'm not trying to be negative but please raise the price to at least 500r. <3

 

I agree.

The original reason they dropped the price and added taxes is to encourage larger factions but that never really happened because they made it so cheap to own a faction (at first) that more people started creating their own factions. Yes those factions only really survive for about a month but that's actually a relatively long period for Massive. A lot happens in a month and a lot of tiny noob factions are created in such time.

I'm all for bringing the price of creating a faction back to what it was when I started playing Massive which is 2000 regals and I believe taxes should remain as they are. Not only will this almost completely remove the possibility of temporarily active players making a faction with a month long lifespan but it will also stop people from running away from wars by just creating another faction. Another plus is it will also bring back the market for selling factions which brings back another money making sector in a market that's ever increasingly hard to make money in.

 

I agree. If your dedicated to the server there's no reason why you can't reach 1,000 regals to make a faction. I made one when factions cost 2k. And I got the money in less than 3 days from darkrooming.

 

Being a faction leader should be a prestigious thing not something that can be achieved within a few hours of joining massivecraft. The title of "Leader" has lost its sense of importance.

 

So then what's the harm? They die out soon anyway.

 

1. Outpost was one of those factions that were created as soon as factions were 100r. I left Atheria, and fixed up an abandoned base I had always had my eye on. Now Outpost has been around for more than 5 months.
2. I do agree 1,000r seems a bit low. However, this opinion is coming from a guy who already owns 2 facs.
3. Yep. Taxes are good. And, if faction price was 1,000r, you wouldn't want to create a new faction.
4. Selling property in the faction worlds, or selling the factions themselves? B/c selling factions along with ther land is still not uncommon.

Also, I have not had these issues with new factions. Two new factions have settled in the general area I am in, and both are at least 15 chunks away. One is now even a very close ally.

 

Mecharic,

We want new players to be able to come to the server and establish themselves quickly, whether they are interested in joining an established faction or just setting out on their own. Some even arrive with their friends, and the ability to start up a faction and struggle together can be a really fun and formative experience. It's wonderful when players recognize the value of being part of a larger faction and work together, but that's not for everyone, and Factions also exists to protect small bands and hermits as much as it does kingdoms and their intermittently washed masses.

In the case of the individual who set off on his own, it's fine if all he does is have some fun and that faction fades. If he's in a world where MassiveRestore is on, the system will clean up after him automatically. If he realizes there's more work for him out there than he expected he can always return to an existing faction. On the other hand, he may end up running an empire that will put all others to shame. It's hard to say, but I can't see the harm in him setting off, either for a short while or for much longer.

In short, I hear what you're saying and do appreciate it, but it's so important for new players to find a home, whether that's in your faction or off on their own. And now, more than ever, MassiveCraft is designed to cope with smaller factions blinking here and there across the landscape, having fun for a short while and then getting swept up by the wilderness once again.

levers

 

Maybe not 1000r then, but something like 400-500 would still be better than 100.

 

I still don't see the harm in this, nor would I call them noobs, but that's another matter. All we can do is provide them with what we hope is the very best chance for them to get established and continue playing on the server in the way that they find enjoyable. Those who want to be part of a larger faction will and should head straight to recruitment. Those other fiercely independent people who want to head off on their own, should be able to do that too without having to spend a few weeks figuring out how to raise fac money. Ultimately, as you have seen in action, those who stay with us long term do indeed tend to be a part of the sort of larger community you value, but for some people, they never make it that far if they don't first have a chance to go it alone.

Quite a lot actually. I know that in my faction alone it's always been the case that almost all veteran members came from some faction that had broken up or timed out. However, that question can only really be answered in context, along with how many go inactive for all sorts of other reasons, including the inability to start their own faction (whether for the goal of empire building or protecting a single build in the wild).

levers

 

I certanly came from a failing small fac

 

I disagree

noobs who make factions with 100 regals have no source of actual income to establish themselves. They will join a faction get 100 regals, and not really learn anything about the server. They will start a faction. It will disband in a week, and they will join an actual faction.

 

And?


How is this your problem

As I recall Pvp factions /liked/ getting people

 

I dont get what you mean my problem. I am just stating the fact. That these noobs learn very quickly that leading a faction is not as easy as it seems.

 

And?

This is a problem because?

 

I can get 1k r in a darkroom... in a single hour.... >_>

 

Thats quite impressive. Share your secrets with us.

 

Yes, please do :o

 

Ermmm... You walk into a darkroom with god armor and a weapon and kill stuff? You get 1-15r from every other massive mob so... Its kind of easy?

 

Ah dam I forgot massivemobs. Of course more money is made from them. They are harder mobs. Lol I just realized

 

Mecharic wanting to disencourage other players from making a faction??!! I like this change :D

Edit: A dedicated player can get 1000 regals easily in a day :P

 

Kinda' Edited, more soon.

Honestly, the people who are saying they want to keep the prices low have no arguments to back up the common facts. Sure, you want people to join and easily establish a sense of ones own uniqueness and self-worth by creating their own faction, but each person who is joining Massive is saying the same thing, "I'm going to have the biggest and best faction". And theirs our problem, each person envisions themselves being that faction and refuses to join any other people of whom have their own ideas and visions. Low faction cost is turning new players into anti-social mouth breathers. These people simply refuse to listen to anyone trying to help them. Anyone can easily gather 100r, with the implementation of MassiveMobs it's easier now more than ever! Each new player creates their own faction, plays for a week, and quickly realizes that it's going to take a lot more than one person to turn their perfect vision into a reality. Even large factions are suffering! Without new players looking for protection and all around friendly people, their are not going to be any big factions. Oh! and the problem everyone's having, new and older members alike, is that these small factions have already littered our worlds, how are new players ever going to create that dream faction if they can find a bit of land that is not directly connected to another persons 1 man faction. Our server is called "MassiveCraft" not "SuperObliviousSoloCraft", It's about the community getting together, having fun, socializing and helping each other out! Owning a faction takes Leadership, Responsibility and the ability to ask for help, things that are earned, not given. The community is saying something, their saying they want change, without the communities cooperation and recognition that this change is for the better of them! Our server is going to be heading down on a slow unsociable decline.

Still kinda' rushed, #Change

 

Yes, but 1000 regals is too much for a faction to pay taxes on keep running, and recruit quality players.

 

The key is to workshop it with a bunch of competent people and work towards staying a thing.

 

First of all, I'd like you to rephrase your first and second arguments for raising as they are blatant hyperboles, the server doesn't even have a thousand factions and never has had such an amount in the nearly three years I've been active on it.

Secondly, Massivecraft is one of the very few faction servers that charge for creating a faction since we do not allow for overclaiming and somehow have to keep the lands from overcrowding. People who come into this server and get to know it might crave the idea of being leader, but to belittle them by saying that leading to them is nothing more than owning an empty faction is just wrong.

Thirdly, a point that @Sarge_Peppers made but that you failed to adress in this summary, the low cost lets new players play around with the faction plugin without causing them to much harm when it doesn't turn out well. Trial and error is an important part in learning and if new players can only play by joining these mass-factions they end up in an enviroment that might not even facilitate learning about the server.

Fourthly, you can't just set the standard for other peoples ideas of achievement or social needs.
Some players do not enjoy living with dozens of unknown peers, Not everyone is such a social butterfly as you claim to be.
On the topic of achievement, the few instances of publicly recognised achievements we have on the server are not reachable for new players in their growing fase, a sense of achievement is a purely individual feeling that can be shared with and respected by people you know and like and will motivate you, no matter how little it is. The moment of omeone finding his or hers first diamonds on the server shouldn't be overshadowed by the fact that diamonds are considered low-worth by most older players.

Lastly, one could go into a more objective argument and consider that mass factions with rich leaders are alot more likely to spend all their power and claim large or several large areas whereas new factions value every chunk higher and barely ever come close to using all their claim power, severely limiting the space they take up on the server. (unrelated but personally I think 20/60 chunks claim for each person is way to high for a server that doesnt support overclaiming and is alot more limited in making new maps because they are custom-made).

PS:
To expand upon the the topic of lack of land, I think that a more strict enforcement aginst spiderclaiming/claiming land that isn't connected to your other claims and a way to tax factions that have claimed way more land than their current members are supposed to be able to claim would yield far more results than any sanctions on creating new factions would.

PSS:
I don't think the 'easy to get money' argument belongs in the list as someone who can get 1k in a day would have to have access to endgame stuff or grind a single aspect of the game for many hours.

 

@Sarge_Peppers argument is not looking at what is actually happening, the whole idea of lowering faction cost was to allow the average player to be able to establish a sense of pride in running ones own faction. But how are 250 people supposed to run 250 individual factions? Its's impossible, players are being divided to their little corner where they sit completely isolated from the world. These players are easy kills for anyone looking for some PvP, and guess what? No ones there to help them defend their 1 man faction, what about allies? How many times is someone going to go help a 1 man faction that'll last a week before it gets old and tiring. The ability to lead a faction is something that is earned, not given. you want to go mess around with the faction plugin? Go ask someone who runs a big faction what it's like, or how about you get more immersed into the community and visit the forums? You've seen what first-hand experience is like, It just doesnt work. And about the "Not everyones a social butterfly" why are these people playing on a server then, especially one thats about RP and Factions? Everyone needs to wake up and look at what's really happening, not the idea of what they want.

 

I am going to try to answer each of your points but for the discussions sake it would be nice if you took the time to format and stopped with the hyperboles aswell as asking questions you answer with an answer convenient for your side without any supporting evidence.

-If you think @Sarge_Peppers argument is an untruth, I'd suggest you substantiate that with evidence rather than shoving it out of the window because it doesn't fit your side of the story.

-As of currently there are 314 one man factions on the server, many of these factions are owned by premium players or otherwise experienced players and alternate accounts. These factions serve as nameplace holders, to keep terrain with sentimental value to certain players from restoring or simply to harbour ones items and provide a enviroment where one is free to do what they like, only bound by the server rules.

-I find it doubtfull that one man factions are terrorized by pvpers. Aside from the fact that new one man factions have a 4 weeks protection that allows them to build up what they have, the yields from killing a single guy without breaking the server rules on spawnkilling and such would be very low, aswell as the cost to surrender a war. On the topic of none defending small factions I'd say that you should read up about proxy wars, pvpers love pvp and larger factions will often take the opportunity to fight one another through smaller ones, but now we are drifting away from the matter at hand.

-Please substantiate your claim that first-hand experience doesn't work, since I havn't 'seen' it, as you seem to suggest.

-There is a large area inbetween not wanting to be in a faction with multiple strangers while still having the multiplayer experience where you roleplay in regalia, sell on the market, fight with friend and foe and return home to a save and familiar area and playing singleplayer,
But I know you understand that and therefor I do not feel like spending much more time unraveling half-truths from your walls of text.

'Everyone needs to wake up and look at what's really happening, not the idea of what they want'
Wake up sheeple!

PS: Rating my post 'goth' and then completely ignoring any of my own points is kind of spite-ish and doesn't help my declining enthusiasm to answer you.

 

I agree with you Levers. The game is for people to have fun. That means the 'newbies' has to have fun as well to establish themselves on this server. This could be stimulated by starting an own faction with your IRL-friends or something.
Longtime players don't see this issue, since they care less for the new players, after all they are well established in the bigger factions already.

On the other hand I would say; Teled Methen is FULL. There is no place, unless it's water, where you can start a new faction. You might claim a maximum of 2 chunks or so, before you are in conflict with the 'too close to another faction'-rule.
It's not only Teled Methen that is full, but Fenderfell as well.

 

Not really. If you can get 1000 r, what's to stop you from getting another 1000 pay taxes? And what does the amount it costs to create a faction have to do with recruiting 'quality players'?

 

It's good to see that more worlds are coming out, especially one thats so barren and icy to spice up the mix.

 

Personally, I'd raise it to 500r
Because I hate wasting all my Premium Donation money away so easily.
But, you offer a fair argument. ​

 

So here's my 2 cents...

So on one hand we want players to be able to create a factions without too much time already spent.
On the other hand we don't want thousands of innactive microfactions spreading all over the map.
I forget what it is exactly but isn't it like 6.66r per vote. So about 20r a day from voting on average.
If a player did nothing but voted for say a week they would raise about 150r.
In my opinion its reasonable for a group of 3 players to spend a week raising 400-500r to create a faction.
And its difficult enough that not every player to join will create a faction and then leave 2 days later.

So I'd say raising the price to between 400r and 500r for a faction is a good balance.