My Disillusionment With The Current Regalia Format

Discussion in 'Roleplay Discussion' started by MonMarty, Feb 19, 2020.

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  1. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    So, I'm still ill and this isn't really a big official deal, but I'm reaching out to the players to help me get my thoughts on a row, and maybe come up with new ideas. I have a casus, and I have several factors that I think should be considered. Let me also clarify first: I am not disillusioned with the idea of the single-hub standard. I still think congesting players over a concentrated highly detailed area is the preferential way for roleplay. It's worked for 9 years on Massive. Until it didn't. So let's set up a few rules first:
    • This is not an official thread. It's just a brainstorm.
    • Keep ideas and argumentation to 30 words or less per point. I won't read walls of text.
    • I'm going to ignore what I think is non-factual information or tin-foil commentary.
    Now here is what brought this about:

    Regalia has adequately catered to roleplay for years. If you couldn't find rp at your insert here location, you could always fall back on the Golden Willow. But for the first time in 9 years, the Golden Willow is permanently dead. It doesn't have staff and no traction and no players. Players now rely on a rotation of walking between hubs they "think" are active, and if they can't find any rp, they just go OOC or log off.
    What do I think happened:

    Massive has always had this policy that anyone should be allowed to start whatever business they want, wherever, whenever, whatever. Which is great. It resulted in the Nook, the Gilded Orchid, the bar Mr_H used to (or still does?) run, and more. But there was something neat about the Golden Willow in that it catered to anyone (it used to in Regalia V4 anyway). The Nook is... the Nook. It's for Old Town. Nobles could never reasonably go there, either for appearance sake, or for getting stuck in "grr nobels" roleplay. That doesn't mean the Nook is to blame, but I do think it sped up the process of the Willow becoming deserted, and now that the Nook is also dying in terms of activity, we just have a herd of players going "Where do I go to rp now???".

    Here are some other points worth making:

    • Most Districts on average have 15-30 houses in them, but rarely have 1 of these houses used.
    • Businesses (hot spots) are widely spread out across the city, taking minutes to jump between them.
    • Player businesses tend to only run for 1-2 hours every 2-3 days, meaning it's not consistent.
    • Most houses and streets are really wide. This means most districts are 100+ blocks long to cross.
    • The city is littered with graveyard businesses and regions abandoned by players who got bored.
    • The city is littered with functionally unnecessary transitions (like the grey gate bridge).
    • Spawn is in a weird spot where it no longer feels like a social lobby, but more like an area to leave.
    • Private rp is necessary. Nobody wants randos to walk in on/spy on their romance rp.
    • Noble Estates cater to microcosm rp, but feel really detached from one another due to distance.
    • Many houses in the city are owned by Survivalists who don't use them or pay lip service.
    • Many public buildings are far larger than the floor plan they would need (like cathedral).
    • Does every business need to be 30x20 blocks while you only need 5x5 to roleplay?
    I am definitely still of the opinion that the centralized roleplay is superior to the idea of spreading out 20 villages and having 2-4 players in each of these villages. But maybe I've grown disillusioned with the following core concepts:
    • I think players should no longer be able to open so many businesses that just go inactive and die. I think all bars should instead combine into one super bar that is constantly manned for roleplay. Owned by staff OOC, where players make up "bar shift groups".
    • I think players always having a right to 3 houses in the city for inactive characters, and then hoarding buildings and not giving them away when no longer being used is bad. I think we should consider lowering the housing limit to 1 per player and encourage co-habitation, or application based housing.
    • I think we have too many public buildings and need to just cut down a ton of them, and make the ones that are really really large just about 50-50 blocks instead of 100+ in some cases.
    Let me clarify, no clear decision is being made as a result of this thread, and no clear decision has been made at all. There is no need to crusade to this thread to defend what you as a player currently have. It's an open discussion to figure out what to do about the flow of roleplay issue that I am experiencing, that is more profound to other players too. Because ultimately, we as staff cannot reasonably tell a new player where to roleplay, because we don't know what the hot spots are anymore. The player base moves too erratically for us to keep up, and the golden willow which we have relied on for years to be the "baseline" or all roleplay, is no longer there. And it's causing the server to suffer. It's really hard for new players to stay invested if there is no place to start to get involved.

    So please, if anyone has any ideas based on the above to try and create a baseline, a place where we can funnel roleplay, a place or time or thing where we can always rely on to find roleplay with just random people from the community without having to worry about whether or not our character can go there or whether they should, please do reply.
     
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    #1 MonMarty, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  2. Sozzer

    Sozzer mega gay

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    so i'm going to drop my usual "no capitalisation, sporadic punctuation" thing because it's actually a serious statement


    There was one iteration of the Willow that was a bit... weird.
    It had no "built in" bar or other such things. Instead, it contained different sections where players could apply and get a place and do stuff. I ran the bar there at one time. It was fun roleplay that I miss doing, so keep in mind there is that bias here. Nevertheless, I'd personally suggest going back to that.

    - Keep it right around spawn as it is now (though perhaps not spawning literally at it, just nearby with it in sight) but remove the Willow's bar and such entirely, turning it into more the location than the business itself.
    - Rather than having the player businesses be below the Willow as they are now, partition out the main place into a couple areas that can be applied for.
    - Allow multiple little places with their own distinct niches pop up within the single building, and try to prune it down so that there's generally only one or two for a given role (things like "this place sells pastries and sweets" vs "this place sells meats" vs "this place sells fruity drinks" and so on).
    - Make sure they stay actively manned.
    - Probably cut down on the overabundance of housing and player businesses, too; I'm in favour of cutting down how many houses players can own.
    - Maybe also cut down the size of the city as a whole in the process, so there aren't a million empty houses with the inhabited ones scattered here and there. This one's iffy, since it's never nice to see the work that went into the city be left behind, but it's fairly important to make a reduction in housing per-player actually meaningful.
     
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    #2 Sozzer, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  3. Mortisian

    Mortisian The Flesh is Weak, the Machine is Strong

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    The Gilded Orchid S.T.C operates as a means to give RP to all those Commoners or Noble/Aristocrats who want to come to the peace and warm feeling of the Location. In soon time we will be hosting more Entertainers Nights and various themed Nights to increase traffic through the area as it is relatively close to the Nestled Nook Presently just opposite of the City Cathedral Teleport. I am willing to open and run it more frequently if New Players coming into Roleplay are interested in enjoying a little of everything! It gets difficult finding RP locations wherever I go when I do search it out that I sometimes just wander aimlessly Messaging people about it, but this doesn't really work easily when you are new. So I shall also offer myself up, /msg Mortisian (Ingame) or Message me on Discord at Mortisian#7817 and I will coordinate with you to get you invested in various RP scenes that I hang around and get you comfortable with the Community. C'mon over gents and gentlemaidens. I got you.

    On the notes of general Areas people roleplay and why it isn't the Golden Willow, I believe the main reason this is so is because it just an /area to go through to get to the Roleplay. It does not make sense for people just arriving to the city to just somehow exist on a Tall Dias connected to the Willow. If there was a clear cut means of showcasing that "this" is how we get into the city, and /these/ are the places you can go by specific street directions I feel it would be easier. A Dockyard or something would be cool af!
     
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    #3 Mortisian, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  4. Kingdom56

    Kingdom56 Only if being a meme-dealer was a real profession.

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    My idea would be replicating what was done in the sewers for the update, and centralizing rp locations. Perhaps cut down on some districts up-top to make more busy rp communities.
     
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  5. _Owlet

    _Owlet Nelfin Redhead

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    I personally think /tp roleplay spawn's new update isn't working very well and we should move back to a more "main street" with businesses and the golden willow in the centre, as a base for new players wandering into the city. Automatically spawning basically inside the Willow is probably what has caused folk to not stay there, as its seen more of a building you have to walk out of, to find roleplay. That's my opinion anyways! I always used to roleplay at the old willow before the spawn was changed, the gambling tables and private booths beneath was always handy and I enjoyed occupying them
     
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  6. Ambrosiosa

    Ambrosiosa

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    I would recommend requirements upon buying buildings of certain sizes. An activity check if you will. It will ensure people that do have the will and put in the effort of consistent role-play get their place in whatever business or home they have/want.

    Server build is ridiculous and over-sized. Not a good idea for new-players trying to fit in when they can't find role-play the majority of the time. I did not even know DynMAP was a thing.
     
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    #6 Ambrosiosa, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  7. KK134

    KK134 Regalian Pioneer

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    -There are a lot of event buildings (ex:Regalian College) many of these could be combined and pushing them closer to the center of Regalia may help to draw more passerbys.
    -Maybe even cluster these event buildings so that players can easily move from one event to another and don't log after one event ends.
     
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    #7 KK134, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  8. thecrazy13

    thecrazy13 It me, that dude

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    May just be me falling in with the wrong groups, but I've noticed a trend where people fall into a niche group for a time, some groups stick around longer like Yanar Court which regularly has activity, and noble roleplay, which is kind of guaranteed to be active. In other areas though, people seem to cycle in and out, like for a while there would regularly be 5+ people just hanging out in the Allar district, right now I see people hanging out in Claw Court with some amount of regularity. And just as all things do, the Nook slowed down activity wise. It really just depends on who is online and when, groups come and go based on how active a key person is.
    A LARP I go to solved this issue by assigning a single staff member to each plot and race/realm. One go-to expert who would be dependable (relatively) in their activity and would even handle the flow of that plot.
    At the same time, just shrinking the general layout of Regalia may be a good idea, running activity polls constantly to see where people go the least, and making those areas a bit smaller or removing them altogether. As well as limiting people to one house perhaps, though some more active people may use multiple houses quite often, and some people might be running a business or community center in a double or triple house.
    There is no clear cut answer to any solution, sometimes the best way to fix it is to just keep trying new things until something sticks.
     
  9. Ryria

    Ryria i amne jusst a litle creechr

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    I think you’re right when you say the noble estates feel too far from each other. This is just a suggestion, and is mostly for the lower nobility rather than those with country estates.

    I think that it would be nice to have a little bit of a noble district again, where aristocracy or lower end nobility could have their own little townhouses and so forth. Back in the day, I personally remember getting quite a bit of roleplay from just bumping into neighbours as I came out the door.
     
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  10. Osowiec

    Osowiec A ragged wanderer.

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    I have a personal opinion that Regalia is simply far too large for the amount of roleplay that occurs within it. Though I also perhaps have bias in that the Golden Willow was a fine idea when there wasn't ten other of them. Though it can be modified to adapt with the times of course. Give the top to the nobles, the bottom as a speakeasy style for criminals, and the middle as the middle ground for all characters.
     
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  11. GRIST_

    GRIST_ The Antagonist Premium

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    So- I love the two points you made under this particular point. I think they'd really helped centralize RP and cut down on random empty buildings. HOWEVER, this particular idea above I have to disagree with. Personally for me at least, I go to different bars for different types of RP and if one bar is too crowded and I will often find another one to enjoy RP in. I also believe that it will not help encourage players to work on projects they care about and to make RP for others.

    My other solution, however, would be to cut down on bars and have more distinct active ones. Possibly if we are cutting down on useless buildings either bringing them together or having them in level areas with different purposes.

    I also agree with some of the posts on here and that the city is way too large. Too many inactive districts. If we cut out size, it'll be easier to navigate and easier to RP in. And find RP in for that matter. To which I also think that we need a different leveling for old and new town. Old Town is a little more active because I think it has more outstanding districts and of course the nook- if we could cut out the idea of the two separations it might help centralize it.

    TLTR:
    - Make more distinct and active bars in leveled parts of the city.
    - Make Regalia smaller to draw attention to those places.
    - Make Old and New town more one instead of separate.

    Sorry if this was a little long.
     
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  12. Faunfire

    Faunfire I'm the guy who draw an cry :,)

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    So I read through this for a bit, and here are some things I thought I'd share my opinion on some things that gave me the heebiegeebies.

    Okay, I agree with you here. It is kind of annoying to see a house you want and have it owned by someone who doesn't even use it.

    Okay but - like - what if one of your characters is super illegal? Also, you're supposed to not have your characters know each other, so there's that, too. But - I understand you're trying to limit the places people roleplay, but I don't see how this would necessarily help anyone. It just makes players anxious about losing their properties. - Also, making houses application based are... well... no. Just - please. No. Think about how intimidated the new players would be - After making an application for their character, they have to wait for that to get approved, and then do another application just to qualify for a living space for their character? And still pay regals for house rent?

    I know it's just a brainstorm, but it's alarming none the less, and even though I don't have any ideas to fix your issue, I'll leave my input here none the less in an attempt to try and figure out if my voice and ideas on this are alone.
     
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    #12 Faunfire, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  13. rimacutem

    rimacutem Local dwarf

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    I agree that the city grew too large. I also have to say that big streets are not the best for immersion considering streets in historic center of Prague. And there certainly are many areas not used at all. For example there are always houses in goralaan that are free no matter when I look up what houses are free. And I agree that use of houses is limited, I for example have one house with two roommates which has seen burglary, firebombing and social rp, while other two have not had use yet. So yeah, reduce amount of houses one can own to one or two, three is too much. If people are more centralised, there won't be even need for a taverns I feel, since now taverns are hotspots where people congregate, but that won't be necessary if city is not so big that they would be too spread out
    TLDR Reduce width of streets, remove parts of oldtown and newtown and reduce house ownership

    P.S Remove militia building or make it smaller, I have not seen it used in a long time
     
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    #13 rimacutem, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  14. ZiggyStarDusted

    ZiggyStarDusted *lute music stops*

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    -I can very much vouch as someone who used to work actively at the now defunct Azure Premise that less is more in terms of rp locations. - The Premise was probably 10 times smaller than any of the current renditions of bars/ taverns but it still flowed actively with RP lines, you dont need a giant building to facilitate to that kind of RP.

    -It's pretty undeniable that shopRP flourised far more when the willow was accessed after a walk past various rentable shops on a centralised mainstreet.
    Placement is really everything, the Azure Premise, Teahaus, and the then booming apothecary we're all killed by being relocated to inaccessible locations in the change to the new Regalia.

    -Cut down on bars/taverns that feel overtly similar to one another, and merge them if possible (The Nook, Golden Willow, Gilded Orchard) , (The Dragon/ Moofin's brothel) - or set a hard cap on how many are allowed.

    -As a suggestion, I'd argue we should return to the older structure of a central street as spawn point, have the Golden Willow be more like the stop at the end of the road after the starting player has been immersed by the surroundings of these buisnesses (of which you could actively monitor for rp lines/ activity from those running them every so often.) you could also perhaps set an ideal of what you're for on the application street (I.E: 'We need one forge, one apothecary, one tapas bar, one gym, etc.) and people will naturally fill up these placements that you ask for people to tend to. - This also works to kill the fatigue made by having the current main RP hotspot of Rose Court which isnt directly accesible to noblity and so forth, by making this road the new concentrated rp hotspot for all.
     
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  15. TwistedShadows

    TwistedShadows Benevolent Benefactor of Bardic inspiration.

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    The old Golden Willow spawn where you had to wander up the main-street surrounded by businesses and eventually branched off into a more open area was great. It had the feel of an actual tavern that was the hub of the city whereas these days the willow feels like a cramped spawn-point, surrounded by buildings that always seem empty and makes for a confusing start to Regalia. To put it plainly, I just think the city is too big and empty, players circulate three or four "hot-spots" for RP and then give up, because there's rarely any elsewhere and you tend to get lost or simply disheartened wandering around and looking for fun. Cutting down on the amount of buildings/re-sizing them could work in my opinion.
     
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  16. Yigit

    Yigit Undertaker

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    Player businesses most often never fly. If we are really going to have player businesses, the V4 formula of a main-street-with-business-rents-you-can-apply-for should be returned to. I know that we have it right now, but the V4 formula was slightly different, in that it was one straight street which made it easier to navigate. I think easy navigation is always good for roleplay environments.

    Regalia being decreased in size and the streets being less wide would surely make people feel more closer to eachother, which is a good thing, because isolation does not serve to breed roleplay. I also support the idea of limiting players to one rent.

    Public noble roleplay is bound to die as long as there is no hotspot that serves it. The slummers have the Nook, the sewergoers have the Crookback, which all have one thing in common: they are connected to the city and therefore there is a constant roll-in of players. The nobles only have the Imperial Estate, which is isolated from the city and can only be accessed via /tp, which means players coming-and-going and creating interactions is null.

    The noble hotspot could be the Golden Willow, but it preferably should not be, because the Golden Willow should serve as a getting-started point for the new players and be a hub for all kinds of characters like it's been in every previous iteration. The noble hotspot should be easily walked to without having to rely on teleports. Like I said above, easy navigation breeds roleplay.

    The noble hotspot does not need to be a nobles-only location, because that forces nobles to only ever rp with other nobles, and trust me, that gets boring. The noble hotspot could instead be a location for upstanding and proper citizens, that nobles frequent, but really anyone can go there. This would be the opposite of the Nook, which is a location that anyone can visit, but it mostly serves the slummers.

    I'll write more if I get more thoughts about this.
     
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  17. Lizmun

    Lizmun yeah Staff Member Lore2

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    I think the freedom to create a business and have it fail should not be taken from the players. Let players make their own businesses to be competitive with each other. But I think the city should be downsized. It used to be good size for the large community Massivecraft held. Massivecraft no longer has a large community. Much of the city is unnecessary.
     
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  18. SnashuuPomaymay

    SnashuuPomaymay lol die

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    bro really I don’t mind WHAT ya’ll do, and I don’t know what would work best but I would like to say !! the city from way back in v.4 was my favorite out of all of them. Even if there were a few technical difficulties, it was familiar and everyone stuck to the willow, it was easy to find rp and everything, from noble to criminal niche parts of town were close enough together so you could get from point a to point b easily without clashing, and you were likely to find rp halfway to your destination simply because the main road was cut into a giant plus sign, and at the very center of it all was the willow! I’m, of course, a bit bias given I adored most of the old taverns I rped in and memories I made in v.4.

    At the end of the day, I don’t mind what you do! Things like this can be hard and I’m just as worried about what’s next as you are! My ONLY SOLID ask is that you give the players who own houses a warning at least a day or two before you begin taking them or changing them if you do go through with that, because as a decorator and a collector, I’d like to be able to move all my decorating materials and lore items to a safe location in my faction before the change, because it’s taken me a very long time to accumulate all of it, materials and lore alike! Thank you!
     
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  19. Scribbe

    Scribbe Scribma Male Staff Member Lore1

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    I personally feel like the desertion of Regalia's businesses, houses, establishments, etc. right now is more a symptom of an underlying issue than the disease itself- activity is lower than it's ever been in the past, and it's been that way for a little while now. A lot of what makes business roleplay entertaining is having a steady stream of customers visiting, not just providing the server with activity but providing you with entertainment as well; with low activity, running a business becomes near-mind numbing when you can spend hours stood behind a counter and not see a single soul, as has happened a few times when I've played my Hidden Dragon employee character.

    Because of this, I don't believe that conglomerating the various establishments of the city into one megabusiness is a viable or realistic strategy for resolving the activity issues- I would argue that it might even impact activity worse as players feel that their individual efforts and attempts at providing roleplay are just being consumed Borg-style into one larger collective. Players might feel intimidated at the prospect of losing their usual haunts, businessowners might be angry that they're losing their agency and control over their own 'slices' of Regalia, even if their regions are empty five days out of the week and only half-full the other two.

    Instead, I think that the pervasiveness of dead businesses, the Willow especially, is because there just isn't anything happening right now to incentivise players logging on and inhabiting the buildings on a more regular basis. In 2017, it wasn't uncommon to log on at around 8-10pm GMT and walk around to find players in the Willow as well as in the Golden Hive and the Drache pub, the latter two being just up the street; you'd find the Emporium inhabited with its own healthy supply of roleplay occurring. In 2020, it's become like pulling nails to find anybody at all before midnight or even 1am GMT if there isn't an event on- and even then, the population at the event largely dissolves 20 minutes after it's over.

    One thing that I've always believed has made MassiveCraft stand out against the competition was that it offered the ability for you to create your own narratives while simultaneously acting as an observer to a larger, world-spanning narrative- the stories that came out of the Anahera, Qadir, and Lo Occupations are still talked about today as highlights for players that are still around, yet we haven't seen anything of that scale since the initial Rikkira events that were cut short by IRL circumstances. There is certainly an exhaustion surrounding events like these for senior players and staff members, but I believe that the lack of events of this scale, ones that altered the city's landscape and provided a new avenue for players to interact with the world, are the reason why player engagement isn't anything near what it used to be- there isn't any suspense for what the "next big thing" will be, as everybody knows there just won't be one, and if there is, such as the Clicker incursions that happened late-2019, they're unfailingly inhospitable to European players who'd have to sacrifice their sleep schedules to attend, risking school performance or employment just to be involved.

    Overall, I think that the solution to the problems of Regalia being a business graveyard is not to take away the individuality and agency of player establishments, but to provide players with an incentive to play on the server more frequently and more casually by offering staff events that provide some semblance of involvement and observation of world-changing events- the hype following HydraLana's announcements preceding his eclipse event prove that there is still significant player interest in the server, just a poor follow-through in that interest when there's little to be involved in. After all, what use is combining establishments of similar breeds into one when the traffic they'll be receiving will still be very minor?

    TL;DR: Dead businesses are a symptom of a disease of low activity, not the disease itself. When the low server activity is resolved, businesses will flourish again, but not before, and not by assimilating numerous unique entities into one larger, but not greater being, a la the Borg.
     
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  20. TheBearistotle

    TheBearistotle W O R M

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    I think one of my biases is moving the spawn to a more central area to where businesses or locations can easily be accessed without directly ending up in someone's roleplay, a kind of midpoint to these locations.

    With the Golden Willow now, I like the building and the general area of it, but spawn is directly next to where active roleplay may be happening, whether it be guards doing something or simply people conversing it's very easy and possible for a new player to accidentally stumble into something that the people might not be very welcoming for, and seeing someone walking in iron armor in front of your face who just wants to learn and join the fun in the middle of a potentially serious moment I think might be off-putting to the new person, and someone who has had much more time on the server where they might clash not even a few minutes after the newbie joins.

    I think for me personally, cohabitation and generally cutting down on the size of districts may take the cake for centralizing roleplay. If you look at for example the businesses on the main street they are decently large buildings with multiple floors which could actually be used like housing- housing multiple characters on many floors, and they don't even have to be as wide/lengthy as the current floors are now.
     
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  21. Conflee

    Conflee Me an the bois at 3 am lookin for BEANS!

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    • I like the Super Bar idea though I don't think the current spot the Willow sits will suit that well. A quick sketch up to show now vs my idea.
    Z willow1.png Z willow2.png
    • Left is current. Right is 'new'. All the businesses are equally spaced compared to the janky shop front lines (red) currently. Stalls line the main road and spawn is in the middle facing the Willow. The Willow has an entryway in every cardinal direction.
    • All active businesses that fit the niche (Nook, Willow, Gauntlet, etc) get crammed into the new main district around the Willow, maybe even combined as sections of the Willow building itself accessible from the main room. Open floor plan etc.
    • Each of the new buildings would be smaller, with most of the bars sharing the same floor space- though with their own bar seating area.
    • There are a fair number of empty Main Street Properties that leave plenty of room for compacting and cramming business from outside districts in.
    • Try to group similar businesses near each other. Alchemist shops in this corner, smithies in this one, yada yada.
    • Extra space on the East and West sides along the Canals can be repurposed into outdoor seating etc that's only loosely divided, with the aesthetic/feel of an outdoors mall. That way players are all sitting and chatting in the same sightline with a nice view.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Ryria

    Ryria i amne jusst a litle creechr

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    Another post, but I definitely do agree with @Scribbe. I think that some kind of server wide event or continuation of the clicker crisis would really bring the activity to roleplay. Those first few days when the clickers attacked, you could see the change immediately. Different groups were holed up in different strongholds all preparing for something bigger, but it just sort of fizzled out.

    TLDR pls bring back server progression events
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
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    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  23. Luxus07

    Luxus07 Draconic Mercenary

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    that hit me in the heart

    I think their original purpose of making scenes and vistas grander is violently offset by the limitations of minecraft draw distance making these kinda useless.

    The cathedral you can't even render all at once it's so big.

    I thought this was the case? On the other hand active businesses suffer some weird drawbacks. The Gilded Orchid is severely limited in its size b/c it is a mainstreet property thing whereas the Dragon/Basilisk/Teehaus/Willow are all less active yet super big unique buildings.

    For houses, 2 would be a better option to allow players with multiple characters to have "two" houses for each. Or for two purposes.

    I always had one home for Sakara in a main district and an old town mercenary office.

    compared to november's time:

    - Storygroup system on hold, was limited to noble progression thingy.
    - Noble progression thingy was put on hold.
    - Noble estates were put on a hold.
    - All major wars were pretty much ended before players could interact with them in any way.
    - Mercenary system is being remade so many times in so little time nobody knows what's what
    - There has been one commons meeting in the past 2 months
    - The clickers are supposed to be there but only seem to appear around 5am eu time?
    (bunemma and spunsugar doing all good hosting those noble events!)

    these above were all "events" and "happenings" that drew characters together, who then went to establishments or their homes for rp. i think this is what we miss the most; because really you are looking at establishments where all characters did for the past 2 months was mostly drink, dating and drinking game rp. Those get tiring at one point and make you log on less and less.

    TL/DR stagnation is what's killing activity, not placement of RP hubs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #23 Luxus07, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  24. milkdudders_

    milkdudders_ Refugee

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    So, I'm coming with the perspective of a new player. I entirely agree with Scribbe here. I struggle a great deal having the motivation to come on and roleplay; I have the motivation in other things, in making characters, in trying things out. However, I simply lack a desire to RP.

    While I enjoy social RP, that is all that's available anymore. I don't want to just sit around and chat; I want my characters to be able to DO things. However, there hasn't been any real arcs lately. Clickers came and went quickly, and I've been here over a year but I have seen no other arcs that actually affected my RP. I want things to happen, I want things that affect my RP right back.

    There is no incentive to roleplay. Almost all major, world affecting RP seems to happen in the same few cliques and in Nobility, where there is no affect for normal or Crime characters. It often feels as there is no reason to RP; if something big DOES happen, it won't include or affect me or my characters in any way.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  25. ZiggyStarDusted

    ZiggyStarDusted *lute music stops*

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    Yes Yes Yes... Us older players are big boys, we can take it if another 'arc' as so to speak for the server akin to the Lo Occupation and the likes, as a noob when that was running, a lot of investment for me at the time spawned from this, dodging these deathling guards- feeling like theres an impending threat and build up towards something big. (It's not magic that the MCU for reference was so damn appealing to the masses.) - I also have fond memories of the Rikkira arc and so forth. - Stagnancy should always be avoided, and I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone that we'd be appreciative to feel like things are just going /somewhere/ - Not just through war progressions and allusions to the dragons possibly being up to mischief, but server-side events and so forth that effect everyone and call for their involvement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  26. Magivore

    Magivore No Rest For The Wicked

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    While I put down many of my current thoughts here, I bolded the areas that are less time-consuming to read rather than through the entire list and my reasonings. Roleplay may be a concern for activity, but I will be addressing geography in this post.

    Peering through your current ideas, some of your suggestions already strike a bell within my head that may be positive. What I noticed each time we transitioned from Regalias (from v2 - v5) was the swelling of buildings that had unusable space and the distinct shrinkage of co-habitation. Apartments have entirely vanished from my awareness, the only houses and businesses pairing together left doing so to make one business artificially larger with the aid of an alt or friend. While it may inhibit building potential, having wide buildings with a multiple rentable floors may fix some of your abandonment problems while condensing RP. Even if 3 of the 4 floors in the buildings are completely empty, there is still an illusion that the entire building is active even if there are only 2 players chatting away over tea. Who knows? Maybe there will even be an excuse for a "howdy neighbour" if you log on at the same time as another homeowner. Current houses stand well over 10 wide, just as much thick, and over 20 blocks tall with most of that space being consumed by an attic that a majority of players are not permitted to use. Even the houses in Crookback, which haven't yet gone on sale, have 2-3 floors of massive space just for one person with a tall attic that can't be built in. There's no real need to have a floor constructed for fine dining, performing, and a wash room when most players don't have feasts, singing contests, or sit-in-a-bathtub-for-one-RP. You only need a bedroom, a hobby area, and a living room. Additionally, having one of these currently massive houses abandoned gives the illusion that a huge space is entirely unused and has been thrown to the ghosts. To address the bases, I've been using a 20x20 base comfortably with almost everything I need and plenty of room for activity whether I've 2 players or 20. As much as I appreciate buildings like Greygate and the Cathedral, you have to bounce like a bunny to get from one end of the room to the other when emotes don't even reach the other wall. The same can be said to Noble Estates and bases, which are beautiful, but something feels off about reserving a 15x15 space solely for a kitchen/gym when you only need 7x5- or less! Roads to Noble Estates could certainly be shrunk down. Even just having the Estate sit on the very edge of the city should be enough to leave a massive Wilderness to work with, but a close-enough range for highway robbers and carriages carrying ladies to drift by.
    • The buildings are too big, and there aren't enough mixed living spaces. Try building vertical rather than horizontal to create unity: this may also help shrink the "unnecessary transition" spaces that are lined with abandoned houses. Reducing properties players can own will work for buildings of current proportions, but perhaps not for these apartments beyond "no renting more than one floor per building."
    On to the Golden Willow: while for years I've encouraged putting spawn close to it, I've also realized that the closeness of spawn seems to also drop the activity within it. Players don't always want to deal with a 2x1 eyed anime girl in jeans, and those that do wish to don't wait around because there's no one to roleplay with or occupy their patience in the time between tutorials. As much as we like to say we're welcoming to new players, it's also very taxing to have your roleplay interrupted or your creative juices spilled over the floor in the attempt to entice a new player to stay. After all, the Nook isn't anywhere near spawn, but it seems to have become the next bar-time hotspot. Perhaps space between the spawn and the Willow is what we need, something of a mix between v4 and v5: not so far away your game doesn't render it for a minute, but not so close as to put you right on the stage. This will give new players range to either throw themselves into the tavern, explore, or just fart around in that little spot to feel for things themselves. The current Willow literally forces new players to enter it due to barrier blocks, and whether it's very active or empty, it's very intimidating. Is the server dead? Am I going to do something wrong in front of these veteran players? Where's the Wilderness if I'm just stuck in this tavern? I'd be mortified as a 12-16 year old trying out such an environment.
    • Put some space between spawn and the Willow and give new players breathing space/freedom to wander rather than a claustrophobic funnel straight into what's supposed to be one of the most active (and daunting) zones to RP in. A few minutes to wander can lead to an hour of interest.
    Concerning roads and player businesses, there's no real way to stop players from putting businesses on opposite ends of the city. If they are a Yanar and in the Yanar district, it's natural to desire to place an apothecary within it's limits. A Yanar wouldn't be likely to enter the Velheim district to advertise their 13 herbs and spices to heal your wounds, but the least one can do is create a specific market district (perhaps in front of the Cathedral, to plop down tents and use the big space for soliciting?). This district could function as the currently large houses, except activity lines can be ruled for eviction rather than running out of Regals or not logging on ever again. Unlike the player businesses, the roads can be helped. Their length usually can't be fixed unless you solve the housing problem, but some of them can be confusingly large. 4-6 blocks across is plenty of space for people to pass each other in poorer districts, and 6-7 blocks across gives plenty of room for activity with possible gardens and Garrison-styled buildings making it seem even wider at the cost of a little negative space. Currently, there's a lot of grey and a lot of width between the front doors of houses. I'm for the idea that you should be close enough to be able to have a "Player says/exclaims:" conversation from one balcony to another.
    • Player businesses are impossible to suppress, but giving a few fancy, centralized businesses with low-line activity and normal rent delivering the boot may provoke less flaky players to participate or to refresh the system for people to breathe newer, more active air. Roads are also way too wide; try making them more skinny to inch the entire city closer together.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    #26 Magivore, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  27. Conflee

    Conflee Me an the bois at 3 am lookin for BEANS!

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    As a secondary thing:

    I personally find constant social rp to be soul rendingly boring. I can't handle it. I have barely Rped for a year because of it. End of the Year events helped a lot with that issue in the past but we haven't had one in years. Its possible, if more people feel the same, that one of the reasons businesses are dead is because people are growing tired of constant Social RP like I have already.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  28. seoulmate

    seoulmate Queenbreaker

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    I'm going to write this in bullet points because I fear I can't keep to just 30 words and bullet points might help make it be more organized:

    • I am of the belief that the main street leading to the Willow was a prime "Regalia Entrance" setup. You came to Regalia and you could splinter off into different districts from there, but it lead to the Willow which was active as well as allowed players to see the active business on the side. (It's true some were inactive, but many businesses brought the RP to the main street area.)
    • V5, at least to me, was meant to be smaller than V4, but it's quickly grown even larger, and I think that has to do with new districts being added for small player bases that in the end abandon those concepts so the homes end up sitting empty, making the city feel empty. A good example of this would be the Goralaan district and the Etosian District in the back of the city map.
    • As Ryria stated, a noble district for smaller nobles/those without a countryside estate would be nice to consolidate the nobles into an area that isn't 400 blocks into the wilderness.
    • It's a small one, but I think in V4 how the park was in the middle of the map also helped out. You would always see people hanging out at the park sitting on benches or having picnics over there, but now the park is at the end of the map out of everyone's way that I doubt anyone really knows there even is a park.
    Small little things, but I wished to add my two cents in like the rest of em.
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
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  29. MonMarty

    MonMarty Thotdodger Staff Member Server Owner

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    shidd all these walls of text.
     
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    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Cuddles! Cuddles! x 1
  30. skullpanda90

    skullpanda90 Sleeping Extraordinaire

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    • Like these other players, I agree on either bringing back the old form of Regalia with the main street, in which you would spawn, and go down a road with businesses on either side, and the Willow at the end. I believe it will draw in more players with the ability to see immediately whats going on and where.

    • Alternatively, the Willow could be centered with businesses surrounding it, but not so close that the Willow saps business from similar taverns.

    • Another idea could be creating hubs in the different districts, one in the center, then New Town, then Old Town. like how Rose Court you could consider to be the populated hub of Old Town. Perhaps with the creation of areas of business hubs, it can create more centralized roleplay, yet maintaining the ability for areas to maintain their niches, and activity could perhaps spread outwards from these hubs within each district.
    • I feel the same way here, in which cliques tend to flock to the same area, and stick around longer. Perhaps even stubbornly doing so with little exploration elsewhere. This is why I feel the Nook became as popular as it did, because the same people would come in and rp with each other.

    • Cliques/Niche groups are impossible to prevent, but with other areas to look towards in either the Main Street concept or hub concept, it could allow players to look outwards and swing by another busy business if their go to isn't active.
    • However, I do not agree with this. Whilst a good concept for growing activity, I feel like it takes away the unique aspirations of players to create and do their own thing.

    • Perhaps instead, a giant bar area, but with different sections with different taverns? Like some kind of mall, or something akin to the Emporium? Hah, who knows.
    • Yes, some more staff events would be nice! I enjoyed the Lo occupation and Rikki the most.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #30 skullpanda90, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  31. SnashuuPomaymay

    SnashuuPomaymay lol die

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    Note 2: I’m seeing a lot of people mention they’ve gone inactive or think inactivity is because social rp got boring and they want to that progresses, or they want rp that has an arc or they want something big to happen that everyone can get involved with. And I fully agree! Honestly, something life changing or major happening would be refreshing! It’s been YEARS- or at least, it feels like it has been!- since any major development rp has happened! I’m not talking about the Anglian mist or the progression posts- I’m talking about things from the Rikirra Arc, where the whole city stormed through the Emperors burning palace, slaying or magic-ing beasts and demons along the way to save the emperor, or when everyone was in a camp and everyone just KNEW something was gonna happen, the line up for the “executions,” etc- or even when Freya Lo was around and the whole city actively got rp out of the ringing of the bells that alerted people of a curfew where they’d have to avoid the guards, or face some sort of interaction with them, etc etc. It made you feel like something was happening; because something WAS happening! And that was the fun of it! The anticipation that something was about to happen was fun and I honestly miss it!
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  32. Luxus07

    Luxus07 Draconic Mercenary

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    You made me look at the dynmap - there really is one ...
     
    • Immersive Immersive x 1
  33. KK134

    KK134 Regalian Pioneer

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    Adding onto Scribby

    I feel that much of the inactivity around the server is caused by a wall between new players and "meaningful" rp where they can not seem to interact with it and feel stuck in social rp
    Some Suggestions more based around activity than building
    -While I understand progressions are necessary to give details and hard numbers they do shift focus away from IG interaction so maybe try to make more of them supplements to IG events or announcements.
    -More Diets based around progressions and possibly more npc's showing up IG
    -Return of an artist court made specifically for commoners to interact with the imperial court
    -More server-wide events based around the effects of these systems or arks of different groups
    I am only commenting on the noble system since I do not feel I have interacted with the crime system enough to comment on it
     
    #33 KK134, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  34. Sozzer

    Sozzer mega gay

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    this is going to get a bit longer than 30 words per point
    sorry marty
    anyone who wants, give feedback pls


    Activity and player retention and server events are getting brought up, but everyone seems to be kinda focusing on the idea of one single cause. But… I dunno if it's that simple.
    I think, if I was to boil it down, the issues I see are threefold:
    • Less activity in minecraft as a game means the same level of advertisement (server lists and such) just isn't going to draw the same numbers any more, or even close. This one's… troublesome, and there's no immediately obvious solution beyond the rather unhelpful "advertise more". But it's an issue that needs addressing, and one that on-server action just can't resolve. I really have no good suggestions for this, and any options I can think of do wind up costing money, potentially a fair bit. Also half of them - YT ads, things like that - sound like jokes, even though they're likely to reach the right sort of demographic and are frankly necessary to bust out of the slowly dwindling minecraft playerbase. I may make a dedicated thread on this topic because it's a complicated one that I don't often see discussed. Who knows.

    • The lack of anything big going on. You've heard the "we need server arcs!" spiel before, and I won't bore you with another copy of it. But yeah, it's an issue. I know staff get put under a lot of strain with them, and I know they're difficult. It's not fun to hear "why don't you just do an arc haha", but without something big going on things feel aimless for a lot of people.

    • The decentralisation of roleplay and graveyard of player businesses. Yes, I do think it's a cause; but it's also a symptom. Scribbe was right that it's the result of the playerbase slowly dwindling, however this does not prevent it from exacerbating the issue. If people don't find anything to do, they won't stick around. Simple as that. That initial hurdle is one of the hardest to overcome for any game, server, etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  35. DrFong

    DrFong The Knave of Rats

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    Good thread. This needs to be talked about. So much to get through in 30 words.

    • People, generally, don't like to be "railroaded", that is, forced to do something. They rebel. Currently, we spawn sealed in an invisible box and are forced to enter the Willow. The vast majority of players run straight forward and jump out the window falling 30 feet to the street below. I think people resent being forced to go to the Willow and try to escape it. They are then met with a perpendicular street and no clear choices or direction. The flow of spawn is off.

    • I'm not sure if the map is too big, but roleplay is spread out and hard to find. When I first re-joined there was a list of hotspots with population near spawn. That was very useful, but 95% were at zero population most of the time. Maybe a list like this again, but with less listings to concentrate players (and look busy)?

    • I think everyone being able to own a piece of the city is important. We need our players invested in the server. However, I think it was a mistake to allow anyone to create a business out of any property. Keep businesses clustered in high traffic areas as they would be irl.

    • All of this is exacerbated by the real problem: lower population. Great efforts should be made into new player acquisition and retention. I make it a point to message new players when I see them running around with no nicknames in Regalia. They often have NO IDEA what to do. They are very grateful that someone has reached out to them to explain the chat commands and give them their first bit of RP. I don't have the data, but I bet players who are helped like this have a higher rate of retention.

    Top questions I get from new players:
    • What do I do here?
    • How do I get a job?
    • How do I get a house and make money?
    • How do I become a vampire?
    • Where is everybody?
    Perhaps you need more "professional greeters" like me, players or staff who are actively trying to get new players involved and invested in the server. People who feel like they are part of the story in a vibrant living server are much more likely to stay (donate).

    I have a million ideas and could go on forever. I'll leave it there. Feel free to message me if you ever need help with something.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Winner Winner x 3
    #35 DrFong, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  36. Legoclub22

    Legoclub22 The Antagonist's Right-Hand

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    It's really great to see this issue is recognized.

    Personally, I believe that down-scaling is necessary. There aren't enough people to populate the massive city that we currently have.

    I believe a main street with shops along it leading up to the tavern from spawn is the best design. The main street shops could be applied for, and monitored for activity, but largely player run. Just like V4. Secondary staff-run locations like the Nook could exist along the street, but it should have ample opportunity for player-run shops, and should make an effort to reduce redundancy.

    For rental houses, I believe a possible solution could be getting rid of the current size we have, replacing it with much smaller and sightly larger houses. The much smaller houses could be about the same price as now, but the larger ones should be much more expensive, and encourage co-inhabitation and landlords.

    Overall, the scale of the city should be reduced to closer to what we can populate. Less districts, smaller streets, smaller buildings. We have maybe a couple hundred players, and a city that could be populated by probably several hundred people.

    Making things smaller and closer together can only serve to consolidate roleplay. The 2015 winter festival was a beautiful example.

    Nobles, I believe, should be able to have estate RP, but town houses can fulfill much of that need while reducing separatism. Larger countryside estates could be reserved for only families with very many active players, or families that actively hold events at them. Countryside estates are a wonderful setting, but only when people are at them.

    Here's to hoping this actually gets read.
     
    • Constructive Constructive x 1
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  37. FireFan96

    FireFan96 Ever present, Ever seeing Staff Member Lore2

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    In short, make Imperial Isle the rp server hub, and have niche districts cater to the less common rp themes.
    • Make a new Regalia V6
    • Imperial Isle with core businesses (prison, cathedral, willow, pferdhof (spawn location), military center, court. Make this the highlight of the server. It's what everyone will see first.
    • 8 thematic culture group districts around Imperial Isle
      • Regal "military purist"
      • Heartland "commoner"
      • Fineclass "like by V4 spawn"
      • Noble/Aristo park "like v4"
      • Warmland "party vibes"
      • Northland "basically copy paste V5's"
      • Wildland "Slav Vibes"
      • Farland "hugbox")
    • 10 houses per walled district. inactives be purged
      • yes walled. it prevents district sprawl (etosian next to varran does not mix)
    • everything an areashop. gotta make rpers work, even if that means going to a darkroom or voting. Also voting helps bring new folks in, so it should be encouraged.
      • really active regions can get their rents reduced/removed
    • A single main "Imperial" architecture design with minor "flair"
      • No desert cat statues next to blue and white greece. walls cannot save hiding these. Use the countryside for this as event/village hotspots
    Staff reliance to create content will not solve player apathy. Staff should enhance with their ideas, not carry the players. Charter Wars, Kronau Resistance, Harbor for the first few months. All of these had some staff interactions, but at the base level it involved players organically creating rp.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  38. Luxus07

    Luxus07 Draconic Mercenary

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    while I understand it's regalia and you'd prefer a city based on "human cultures" though it'd kinda suck to remove Elven / Allar district and not create a Songaskia+Qadir one.

    each of the above have more active characters & players than Northland/Wildland/Warmland/Regal
     
  39. BogeyBanshee

    BogeyBanshee No Longer Active

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    I'm inactive but I want to test a social hypothesis. (I'm very sorry) I think an efficient structure should have evident indicators to the houses purpose and social rules, such as that the Nook is a blending between classes, the Wraith is a dangerous place of outcasts and brawling. Houses don't have a main purpose. Sometimes there are invitations, home parties, and small group RP (which aren't public or advertised) in the lower classes. Building lowers playtime and involvement. The less time spent routinely roleplaying the more likely a player will become inactive. I agree that having a more creative playstyle leads to less activity because theres so many options that it seems like there are none or that we can only go to event that match our goals. Ignoring how you usually have to BE active to participate, nobility and families tend to be more active. I don't think putting a sooner eviction date will create more RP, but having obvious uses for homes could help. Since none of the uses mentioned require street interaction I dont see a need for homes in central Regalia, you could even put them in the countryside to downsize. I haven't seen this happen, but sewer homes had a possibility of interaction with the street such as through black market trading or home invasion. Middle class homes only had bake-offs and the rest was quiet. Now if people were traveling TO Regalia, from less than a days travel distance, they could stay at the inns which would have a direct purpose. I mean, theres the Allar district but without people it's just a chess room and what imagination does it take to start something there as a non nobility or brawler?

    TLDR: There's too much freedom. A home with private RP is not gonna generate rp because it doesn't interact the wandering-street roleplay. So, move the domestic homes into a town in the countryside together. Possibly add more inns/ lore spots that have obvious purposes and connection to lore. Ex: public forge, underwater area, herb forest.

    Edit: like Magivore said, group-living forces interaction, which gives it purpose. I would prefer to preserve social RP though, but I agree it doesn't generate anything with other rp groups. That's why a small town purely for people who like decor and home invites would help condense. They tend to be more independant anyways. Splitting up things into groups of types of rp'ers is prolly something you already do.
     
    #39 BogeyBanshee, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  40. GRIST_

    GRIST_ The Antagonist Premium

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    Tbh with all these progression wants- It wouldn’t be bad to see Regalia completely destroyed icly- or mostly in a progression and then something new happening. Just a thought because I totally agree that we need some arc to press forward progression and RP in regalia.

    and by progression I mean an ic event/events.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
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